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A pro-life view during Sexual Assault Awareness Month

Ana Benderas recently shared with Live Action a video stating why she’s pro-life, even when the child is the result of a rape. I too agree that a child should not be punished because of the crimes of his or her father. Rape is never the victim’s fault, but it is no more so the child’s fault. No matter the method of conception, the unborn are magnificent and potential people, all loved equally by God. And they should all be loved equally by us.

April is Sexual Assault Awareness Month. I applaud such a campaign to focus on preventing sexual assault, and my heart goes out there to sexual assault victims and to those counselors, friends, and family members who compassionately lead them on a road to healing and recovery. But in the cases where a sexual assault leads to a pregnancy, people tend to forget that the pregnant woman is not the only victim.

Many people, even those who find abortion to be wrong, think that abortion in the case of rape or incest is understandable. Of course, a rape is a horrible experience that I would never wish on anyone. I can only imagine that there is quite an involved process of healing and recovering. But does an abortion really make the rape any better? In fact, it may very likely make it worse. And despite what people think, most women who become pregnant as a result of rape or incest do not wish to have an abortion. In fact, only 1% of abortions occur for such a reason.

It seems that people are supportive of abortion in the cases of rape and incest because a woman who has been through such a traumatic experience should be allowed to benefit from something considered such a quick and easy fix, such as abortion. This may be true, if indeed abortion did not carry more traumatic experiences with it, and was not ending the life of a child who had nothing to do with his or her father’s criminal actions.

I am against abortion in the cases of rape and incest not only to protect an innocent child, but also to protect a victimized woman from further trauma and pain.

Abortion can be a traumatic experience for a woman, whether she has been raped or not. Abortions can cause physical pain and complications, as well as emotional pain and regret, long after a woman has gone through with such a final, but often regrettable, act. Why would we then suggest or even pressure that a woman then, after she has already been through such an experience as a rape, go through with another experience that may add trauma to the experience?

A woman who has become pregnant due to rape often does not want to abort her child of her own choice, but rather is pressured by those who are supposed to help the woman deal with her rape. Also, with rape and incest cases especially, an abortion serves to cover up the crimes of the father. After an abortion, the evidence of the crime – the baby – is removed, and the man can at least hide, if not continue, his crime and abuse toward his victim. Those who suggest that a woman have an abortion may have intentions of helping. But when the case is fully considered, a woman who has become pregnant out of rape and/or incest deserves much more than the quick and easy fix that abortion is considered to be.

There is hope that can come out of something as horrible as rape or incest. Most women who become pregnant do want to keep their babies. A survey done by the Elliot Institute showed that eighty percent of women who carried their pregnancies to term said that they were happy that they continued their pregnancy.

I find so much hope in that statistic. For a woman who has become pregnant out of rape, that she may find hope in the new life that has been given to her, and that she may do better than her rapist.

To be pro-life even in the case of rape and incest is not only right for the innocent unborn child, it is also consistent. Why should a child conceived out of rape be less worthy of being born than a child who was conceived out of a consensual act? To someone who is pro-life because I see so much life and capabilities in the unborn, that child is in no way less worthy. There is hope for this new person who is allowed to live. He or she can make a name for him or herself and is not defined by the crimes of the father.

  • Solntsye

    I’m not in disagreement with either you (Rebecca) or Ana, with regards to the baby should not be executed because of the crime committed by the father. Yet I still can’t get around the fact that, should the victimized woman not wish to endure a pregnancy and delivery, are we morally justified to force her to endure it, and add to her pain even more (much, much more!) physical agony.

    If you have never been pregnant, then you have no idea how truly awful pregnancy is. And delivery?! There’s another horror show for you- it’s beyond description the agony. Plus there’s the concept of her losing her job related to her illness through pregnancy, unpaid maternity leave, and all the permanent physical changes her body will have (none of them for the better, either: hemorrhoids, vericosities, cystocele, rectocele, incontinence, etc)…. all for a baby that was the result of a violent crime, from no fault of her own.

    But on the same token, I will not deny the humanity of the poor baby either. I just refuse to let victimized women be short-changed in this whole issue. I don’t think it’s right to gloss over the horror the woman has survived and focus only on the baby. Personally, I still don’t know what to think of it

    • silentnotanymore

      I do.  I was assaulted by someone.  Destroying the pregnancy (child) doesn’t undo the assault.  It takes more than a few weeks or even a few months to recover from an assault.  If a woman thinks that by destroying the child, she will recover faster, she is wrong.  She will then have two things to recover from.

      Yes, a woman who becomes pregnant due to assault is not going to be thrilled to be pregnant, obviously.  But the baby doesn’t deserve to die because the mother is upset.  If I got in an accident and lost my leg, well, I don’t want that!  But, who should die to pay for it?  Nobody of course.   Well, the child is an innocent bystander who is not trying to hurt his or her mother.  It’s not right to kill the child because the mother doesn’t want him or her.  We can’t make everything better by destruction.   We as a society have to start showing more compassion so that women feel supported in their pregnancy, even if they are making adoption arrangements.

      If I were assaulted again and woke up to find that an emergency room doctor had already administered an abortive drug to me, I would be horrified and devastated.  I had an abortion years ago, one year after the assault. 

      I forget about the assault for big stretches of time but occaisionally I’m reminded of it and sure, it’s not always nice.  But not one single day goes by that I don’t regret the loss of my child.  Not one day.  Ever.

      • silentnotanymore

        no edit feature: I was being sarcastic when I said ‘not always nice’  – it goes without saying that it’s never nice.  Except while he was incarcerated, that was just and I did sleep better during that time.  Then he was released.  Doubleplus ungood.  The point is, you can heal from assault, but you can’t bring back a child’s life.

        • Solntsye

          I hate to start comparing war wounds, but….Raped, beaten, left for dead. So glad I never became pregnant from it. I have to disagree with you about “healing from an assault”; you never do, ever. I’ve also had my kids and know exactly what pregnancy and delivery entails. Let me just say, there would be no way I would ever be willing to carry and give birth to my attacker’s baby. Although it would destroy me to kill the baby. Since I’ve begun to ponder this question more often, I would have to say that if this were to ever happen to me (be attacked again and become pregnant as a result), I would more than likely commit suicide. There just would be no way for me to go on living with either horrendous outcome.

          Although you do bring up an interesting point about a horrific accident. The only other thing I’d like to add, is I can’t help but notice how quick everyone is to point out the humanity of the baby, and I agree. But not to the point where I deny the humanity of the woman.

          • http://www.facebook.com/jeep.obsessed Brooke Mehr

            I am struggling to take your responses seriously. First, you admit:

            “Let me just say, there would be no way I would ever be willing to carry and give birth to my attacker’s baby.”

            But, then you come back and say:

            “I would have to say that if this were to ever happen to me (be attacked again and become pregnant as a result), I would more than likely commit suicide. There just would be no way for me to go on living with either horrendous outcome.”

            So, suicide (and obviously leaving your children without a parent) is clearly preferrable. Even though suicide would be yet another “horrendous outcome.”

            And I fail to see how choosing life for the child would be “horrendous.” Even if you do have hellish pregnancies.

          • http://twitter.com/CalFreiburger Calvin Freiburger

            (1) How does it “deny the humanity of the woman” to forbid rape abortions, and (2) does it deny the woman’s humanity more or less than the abortion denies the baby’s humanity?

          • Solntsye

            If the woman simply can not bear carrying her attacker’s baby, then to force her to do so would be to devalue her as less than human. It is to value the baby more than the raped woman. It paints the image that raped women have sub-human value (ie: denies full humanity).

            I’d say it’s about even (whether forcing a rape pregnancy or aborting the baby denies their humanity more or less). But then, I’m also a woman’s advocate when it comes to rape victims. If she feels strong enough and wants the baby, then she should have the absolute best care at the cost of law enforcement, since they ultimately dropped the ball and did not prevent her attack. But if she should not feel strong enough, then who am I to insist she carry? I’m sorry Calvin, but I have read many of your posts, and frequently you do not strike me as a woman’s advocate as much as an advocate for the unborn. I try to be both.

          • http://twitter.com/CalFreiburger Calvin Freiburger

            “If the woman simply can not bear carrying her attacker’s baby, then to force her to do so would be to devalue her as less than human. It is to value the baby more than the raped woman. It paints the image that raped women have sub-human value (ie: denies full humanity).”

            How? You keep stating an emotional position, but you’re not explaining it.

            “I’m sorry Calvin, but I have read many of your posts, and frequently you do not strike me as a woman’s advocate as much as an advocate for the unborn.”

            Why? What have I ever said or done that’s anti-woman, or insufficiently pro-woman, in any way, shape, or form?

          • Solntsye

            Forcing a woman to birth her rapists’ child against her wishes is to imply that she (the raped woman) is less valuable than the rapists baby. I know that sounds terrible, but it is the plainest I can make it. Not only were her wishes overridden by the rapist when her attacked her, then her wishes (not wanting to birth her rapists’ baby) are overridden yet again if she were unable to decide whether or not she wanted to carry her rapists’ baby.

            To me, in the posts I have read (and I have enjoyed and do agree with almost everything you say. Plus I appreciate your gathering of data, as it allows me to be lazy and not have to go find all the facts myself; I can just trust you and those like you), while well-informed and always honest, only focus on the baby who’s on the way. I can’t recall an artcle I’ve read recently where you took the woman’s emotional state into consideration, or looked at her as a whole human. It’s great that you’re so clear on seeing the humanity of the unborn, I wish there were more guys like you out there! However, I often wonder if you can see the humanity of women; do you view them with as much consideration as the unborn?

          • http://twitter.com/CalFreiburger Calvin Freiburger

            “Forcing a woman to birth her rapists’ child against her wishes is to
            imply that she (the raped woman) is less valuable than the rapists baby.”

            No, it doesn’t. At all. It implies that they’re equally valuable. All she’s being forced to do is let the baby keep the life he/she already has. She’s not being asked to give up her own life. Though her pregnancy and delivery are an unfortunate, unavoidable side-effect of the rape, they are ultimately temporary, manageable, and usually fully recoverable. Death is permanent.

            We don’t determine justice, morality, or even human worth by whether or not we “respect someone’s wishes” in all cases. We only respect people’s wishes with regard to their own life, liberty, and property. We don’t respect *anyone’s* wishes concerning the life, liberty, or property of another human being. Abortion – even rape abortion – false under that category.

            I routinely take the woman’s emotional state into consideration – when it’s relevant to the subject I’m writing about. But it’s ridiculous to suggest that focusing on the real victim of most abortions – the baby – means somehow dehumanizing the woman.

          • Solntsye

            Okay, now I’m starting to see the point you must have been trying to make. Although I still have to say, it strikes me as what we’re expected to say to women in this position is: ” Tough nuts, Sweetheart. You got pregnant via rape? It’s too bad for you, but goodluck with that pregnancy!”

            The raped woman’s emotional state should be absolutely taken into consideration, to blow them off would be cruel. As long as the raped woman could somehow be compensated above and beyond the hell she endured in her rape (and in my case, it would have taken A LOT to make me feel all is fair), then I could get behind not allowing a raped woman a choice of what she wanted to do in the aftermath of her rape. I know I keep leaning towards the raped woman as seeming more valuable, and (with good reason) I cannot help that.

          • Solntsye

            Oh and I’ll add, as long as the raped woman could be compensated beyond the hell she endured in her rape, as well as the hell she would be required to endure through the course of her pregnancy and the absolute agony of her delivery…then I suppose I could support that idea of not allowing a raped woman a choice of how she wants to recover in the aftermath of her rape.

          • http://twitter.com/CalFreiburger Calvin Freiburger

            With all due respect, you keep distorting my words into something that’s simply not true. If you re-read them with a truly open mind, hopefully you’ll see that nothing I’ve said comes even close to “tough nuts, sweetheart,” that women’s emotional state gets no consideration, or that women aren’t being allowed to choose “how they want to recover.”

          • Solntsye

            I’m sorry again, but that is just how it appears.

            If it’s any consolation, I wish I could just happily agree with you, with a free and clear conscience. But I simply can’t. I can not get past the idea of not wanting to victimize the raped woman any further than what she already has been.

          • Wade Felty

            You are misogynistic jerk and you are saying exactly what she says you are by any stretch of the imagination

          • Wade Felty

            Your a fat liar. 

          • http://twitter.com/CalFreiburger Calvin Freiburger

            What are you, twelve?

          • Wade Felty

            No but you r commentsare so ridiculous I don’t know how to combat them because you don’t seem to use reason or logic, just dogmatic Christianity. 

          • Walldodger

            Why don’t all of you just STFU! …it is not your body … it is not your life… it is not your call to force a woman  to be like a  farm animal… having  to do something just because YOU think you have a direct line to some so called “loving” Father in the sky, who watches over his “flock”…. what bullshit.

          • http://twitter.com/CalFreiburger Calvin Freiburger

            “it is not your body”

            The baby isn’t the mother’s body either, genius.

            “it is not your life”

            Well, somebody’s gotta protect that life from people like you.

          • Wade Felty

            I wish your mother protected our lives from you. 

          • Wade Felty

            You want them to be breeding machines for men.

          • http://twitter.com/CalFreiburger Calvin Freiburger

            Seek professional help. Your inability to accurately perceive reality and your uncontrollable anger aren’t doing you any good.

          • Wade Felty

            Neither are your short-comings, mental or otherwise. 

          • MoonChild02

            We’re not denying the humanity of the woman!

            However, just as the woman didn’t choose to be raped, the child did not choose to be put into the woman’s womb. The baby is a victim/survivor, too. Not only that, but that baby is not a stranger who is forcing her/himself on the woman, s/he is the child of the woman – her/his mother. In all actuality, the the rapist forced his genes on the baby. No child would really choose to be the child of a rapist. No child would choose to harm her or his mother like that.

            The truth is, no rapist is a man, nor could he ever truly be a father. He is a criminal who victimizes the born and the unborn alike, using them for his own sick, twisted, selfish, demonic amusement. What child would choose to be conceived in such a vile way? None!

            Before concluding that you could never give birth to a child conceived in rape, know that 1. The child didn’t choose to be conceived in rape, 2. The child did not choose to share genes with a rapist, 3. The only thing that the child has in common with the rapist is that half of her/his biology comes from his sperm, and 4. The child, otherwise, would be your child. Please read the stories of other women who conceived in rape, and those who were conceived in rape, because that might shed some light on why abortion is such a tragedy, even in situations as difficult as this:
            http://www.rebeccakiessling.com/

          • Walldodger

            DId you just “shout”… [Your child.]..please . it hurt my ears

          • http://www.facebook.com/jeep.obsessed Brooke Mehr

            Not to condone shouting in arguments, but it does seem that Solntsye could use the reminder. She frequently brings up “the rapist’s baby” but perhaps does not understand that the baby is just as much hers as it is the rapist’s.

          • Walldodger

            You  know … all this is bullshit … yes bullshit … you are not the woman going  through all this … how dare you to be so fucking pious..on how she feels about “loving” something that was forced in her . how dare all of you… what a crock of shit!

          • http://www.facebook.com/jeep.obsessed Brooke Mehr

             Wow. Such an adult response. Clearly well thought out.

          • http://www.facebook.com/jeep.obsessed Brooke Mehr

            Not to condone shouting in arguments, but it does seem that Solntsye could use the reminder. She frequently brings up “the rapist’s baby” but perhaps does not understand that the baby is just as much hers as it is the rapist’s.

          • Wade Felty

            How nice of you! You want to convince rape victims today that it would be a good idea to carry their rapist’s baby, so that in a few years you can mandate that they carry the rapists baby. And a man would be happy if his wife was raped and had to carry the rapist’s baby? 

    • http://www.facebook.com/jeep.obsessed Brooke Mehr

      A note on your apparently horrific view of pregnancy:

      I am pregnant now and it has been the easiest pregnancy I could ever imagine. I was a little queasy throughout the first trimester and it is my first pregnancy, so I have had some stretching, but other than that I haven’t had any trouble.

      Not to say that pregnancy isn’t quite often difficult for the woman. I know several women who have had terrible pregnancies, but there is a range of difficulty. It isn’t always as hellish as you describe.

      Moving on, I have to note an issue I have with your argument between the trouble of the woman and that of the child.

      If you turn your argument around, it can easily be applied to the other life in the situation:

      “If you have never been [aborted], then you have no idea how truly awful [abortion] is. …There’s another horror show for you- it’s beyond description the agony. Plus there’s the concept of her losing her [life at the whim of her own mother] and all the permanent physical changes her body will have (none of them for the better, either: [limbs torn or suctioned apart, skull crushed, and--most likely--death])…. all because she was a baby that was the result of a violent crime, from no fault of her own.

      But on the same token, I will not deny the humanity of the [mother] either. I just refuse to let victimized [children] be short-changed in this whole issue. I don’t think it’s right to gloss over the horror the [child will not survive] and focus only on the [woman]. Personally, I still don’t know what to think of it”

      You admit that the child should not be punished, but completely advocate killing the child if the mother thinks it might be more convenient. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

      • Solntsye

        You have no idea how lucky you are that your pregnancy is going so smoothly, congrats to you for being so blessed! Not all of us are as fortunate as you, and it would do you well to remember such a fact.

        And I absolutely see the issue, why do you think it is such an awful thing for me to consider? Unless you have been abducted, raped repeatedly, beaten violently, left for dead, in a coma for two weeks; as well as had awful experiences with pregnancy, I highly doubt you could view the plight of women in this situation with any empathy.

        So I’m not “advocating” her to abort, and certainly not because it might be “more convenient”. A comment like that shows me exactly how out-of-touch with the experience of rape you really are. I am, however, uncertain that we have a moral right to insist or enforce a woman in such an unfortuate circumstance to carry her attacker’s baby. I can see supporting her, encouraging her…but forcing her? I don’t know.

        And I could never carry my attacker’s baby, yet I could never live with killing the baby either…so I see few options for me, should that ever occur. It’s just such an awful thing, no matter which way you slice it.

        • http://www.facebook.com/jeep.obsessed Brooke Mehr

          I do know how lucky I am. And you don’t have to verbally slap me on the wrist to put me in my place about that. I said before that I understand that some women have very rough pregnancies. I was just making the point that not all women do and it is not right to say, outright, that pregnancy is a hellish ordeal just because it may have been for you.

          I am not saying that I understand the plight of the raped women, because I have never been in that situation. But you are still saying that her plight wins out over the plight of the unborn child. One does not overrule the other, but ending a life should not be a choice.

          You may not be advocating, but you are definitely excusing the abortion and justifying it on the plight of the mother.

          I definitely agree that it can be a terrible situation. But I still say that two wrongs do not make a right. Killing the child does not fix the hurt of the woman, it just sheds innocent blood.

          • Solntsye

            You said a lot with the comment “I am not saying that I understand the plight of the raped woman because I have never been in that situation”. Actually, with that comment, you say it all. Sorry, but there it is. If you have never been, then you could never know. Nor empathize.

          • http://twitter.com/CalFreiburger Calvin Freiburger

            One doesn’t need to personally know the experience of rape to determine whether or not rape abortions are acceptable.

          • Solntsye

            Unless one has been raped, however, one can not try to claim any stance of empathy or understanding of the horror of rape.

          • http://twitter.com/CalFreiburger Calvin Freiburger

            Fair enough, but what does that have to do with the subject at hand?

          • Solntsye

            Everything. We are talking about rape and the awful circumstance of conception in rape, yes? In order to understand what a woman goes through emotionally during and after being raped, all that she might think or truly feel, one must have had the awful experience themselves. When we’re discussing whether or not we are morally justified to insist a raped woman must carry her attackers child, we need to be able to truly empathize with the raped woman. To go spouting off derivatives without actual experience is a bit hypocritical.

          • http://twitter.com/CalFreiburger Calvin Freiburger

            Your logic would cripple large sections of the criminal justice system. The average person doesn’t truly know what it’s like to experience any number of victims’ experiences (slaves, people with mental illnesses, people with severe disabilities). And to carry it even further than you intended, the average person can’t place himself into the mind of people who perpetrate the most depraved of crimes.

            Yet we still define and enforce justice in those cases, because we recognize that justice isn’t about empathy or experience, but rather objective principle grounded in a coherent understanding of natural rights.

            Here’s the bottom line: regardless of how anyone FEELS, human beings ultimately ARE something. The relevant questions in rape abortions are:

            – Is the unborn baby still a live human being when he or she is conceived in rape?

            – Is the permanent death of the baby more or less harmful than the temporary experience of pregancy and delivery?

            One need not have been raped to answer these questions. One need only use human reason.

          • Solntsye

            There is one more relevant question you don’t seem to want to ask, and that is: Do raped women deserve to have any input into their recovery from their rape?

            I just refuse to look at women as meaningless, or not entitled to some type of consideration after surviving the horrific and dehumanizing experience of rape.

            Like I said before (above in these comments somewhere), I really would wish that she could feel strong enough to carry her attackers child, and I’d hope she could find some sort of healing through the baby. However, it is difficult for me to feel morally justified to insist every raped woman ascribe to this view. Especially when even I don’t think I could be able to withstand such a horrible experience.

          • http://twitter.com/CalFreiburger Calvin Freiburger

            Of course women deserve “input into their recovery.” But “input into their recovery” does not extend to “destroy another human being.”

            Look, this idea you have that imposing ONE specific limitation on rape victims — that they don’t kill their children — somehow makes women “meaningless” or means we’re not considering them at all simply has no sound basis.

          • Solntsye

            It does though, because living through pregnancy and delivery is a life-changing event. That’s one specific limitation that will affect the raped woman for the rest of her life. She already had to survive a horrific attack that will permanently alter (perhaps even destroy) the remainder of her days, so now it’s also okay to add to the already in turmoil life with more turmoil? It doesn’t matter whether she could put the baby up for adoption, it’s the fact that she would still be compelled to go through the pregnancy and delivery of her rapists’ baby.

          • Detroiter327

            Something needs to be done about this message board so we can read peoples replies lol. Is anyone elses coming out all smooshed? 

          • Solntsye

            Yes. I don’t like it very much either!

          • Detroiter327

            ahahahahahahaha

          • Jdjdjeeeeerrrryyy

            If you have a smart phone you can scroll over as far as the comments go

          • http://twitter.com/CalFreiburger Calvin Freiburger

            Text is getting too small below, so I’m replying up here.

            So the bottom line is, you think that all the hardship of a post-rape pregnancy and delivery outweighs the death of the baby? Even though the woman’s experience is temporary and can be (I’m not saying it always is) overcome and recovered from, but the baby’s death is completely final and irreversible?

          • Solntsye

            To me, the hell of a post rape pregnancy/delivery and the horror of the death of a baby are even. The pregnancy is never a temporary thing, it is a completely life-altering event, even if the baby is placed up for adoption. What the woman’s life is like after pregnancy and delivery is completely final and irreversible as well. This is why I’ve said I could not endure either of these potential outcomes (deliver or abort) had that happened to me.

            Go ahead and take me out back and shoot me, for not being a “real pro-lifer”. Never mind the 24 hours a week I volunteer at the crisis center or the 20% of each weekly paycheck I receive that I give to the center, I must just be too compassionate to women to be a pro-lifer.

          • http://twitter.com/CalFreiburger Calvin Freiburger

            But she still has a life to live. Memories to make. A future to hope for. Friends and family to share. Dreams to chase. Joys to experience. All the things, and more, that are denied to the baby.

            And hold on. I never questioned your sincerity or compassion. Why so defensive?

          • Solntsye

            And all those potentials (should she ever be able to recover) could be crushed with being forced to carry and deliver her rapists’ baby. I can’t tell you how much I hate to say what I’m about to say now, but here goes: the baby will never miss what he/she never had. The baby, should he/she be aborted will never be cognizant of post-uterine life. I realize it is still killing a human, but the only consolation I can draw is that the baby will never miss what he/she never had to begin with (extra-uterine life).

            Perhaps you have never questioned my beliefs, but I can’t help but notice the casual suggestion that I am not as devoted to the cause as they themselves are, by some of the implications here.

          • http://twitter.com/CalFreiburger Calvin Freiburger

            Here’s the difference: you don’t KNOW that the woman’s life will be ruined. you’re just fixated on the certainty that it’s apparently not possible to have a good life after giving birth to “your rapist’s baby.”

            You DO know that the baby won’t even have a life. “It won’t know what it’s missing” is no more a justification for killing it that it would be justification to kill a sleeping person or somebody in a coma.

            You and I aren’t gods. We don’t have the right to decide who’s life isn’t worth living. Period.

          • Solntsye

            Well I have been violently raped and beaten, and I have had kids. I suppose that gives me some insight into how women feel, or may feel after being raped. I can imagine (with terrifying clarity) the absolute horror of not being allowed the ability to decide how I would want to recover from such an incident, after already having my autonomy torn from me when my body was repeatedly and violently violated. It is true, I don’t know how each woman would respond to such an experience, plus a pregnancy as a result, that is why I still lean towards letting the raped woman decide (for once!) her fate.

            The difference between a baby (who would most likely be aborted directly post-rape, as opposed to 10+ weeks) and a sleeping person or somebody in a coma is: the sleeping person or coma victim has already experienced extra-uterine life.

            That’s true, we aren’t God. But we do have a moral obligation to provide victims of violent crime some way to recover, some type of compensation, some order out of chaos, some sense of autonomy. All I can say is, let her choose, but encourage her to be strong and let life live. If she can not, then so be it.

  • bubbalouwee

    A women who has become pregnant due to rape often does not want to abort her child of her own choice, but rather is pressured.  Excellent, excellent, excellent use of words.  Perhaps we can call these people who exert this pressure “Adolf” so they realize their hands are dripping with blood.  By the way, when is ‘sexual reproduction should be kept within the sacrament of marriage and marriage is between a man and a women’ month? 

    • Solntsye

      But what if she did want to abort after a rape, by purely her own choice?

      Yeah, wouldn’t that be some month that you propose there?! I’d happily buy into that! I highly doubt that very many men in society would support that view though. I only pick on men regarding that, when one considers the tons of cheescake pictured in any male-oriented publication. Even in advertising to men, sexualization and objectification of women are always first and foremost. Only in a perfect world would we see that month being celebrated…but I can still dream!

      • bubbalouwee

        Drop the baby off at my house after the stork delivers the little fellow.  I am totally convinced that a baby conceived in rape would bring love like any other baby.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michelle-M-Williams/1021964754 Michelle M. Williams

           You might be surprised. Check out the case of Jeremy Strohmeyer. He was not a child of rape but his loving adoptive parents wouldn’t have adopted him had they known his genetic history.

          And adoption still doesn’t get rid of 9 months of pregnancy.

          I would never adopt a child of rape, especially a boy.

          • MoonChild02

            There’s more to a person than their genetics. The surrounding environment also has a large impact on a child. The genetics for psychological issues have to have a trigger, like abuse, assault, or some other major tragedy. There are many children of rapists who end up completely (or mostly) normal.

            Furthermore, most of us are descendants of rapists. That’s what happened during war in the old days: those who won killed the men, and kidnapped and raped the women.

            Also, Jeremy Strohmeyer wasn’t just a product of his own biology, but of his environment. He was smoking, drinking, and abusing methamphetamine, most likely as a subconscious form of self-medication. He had just been put on Dexadrine, an amphetamine, days before the murder, and was allowed to run around Vegas without supervision after being put on it. His buddy David just didn’t care, and routinely encouraged him in his delinquency. In other words, it was his biology, a severe drug interaction, his parents not caring what he did or who he hung out with after so many signs of problems (severely falling grades, a bad temper, drunk driving arrest, coming in late at night, being caught in bed with his girlfriend, running away, etc. – How does a parent – or any family member – overlook that?), friends who looked the other way, a friend who was there and didn’t care, he had a stash of pornography – including that with children – on his computer (what kind of parent doesn’t monitor their kids’ internet usage?), etc., that led to the rape and murder of Sherrice Iverson. Jeremy had no conscience because he had no boundaries, no one really looking out for him, and no one to stop him from going over the edge. Biology and environment are what lead to such tragedies, not just biology.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michelle-M-Williams/1021964754 Michelle M. Williams

           You might be surprised. Check out the case of Jeremy Strohmeyer. He was not a child of rape but his loving adoptive parents wouldn’t have adopted him had they known his genetic history.

          And adoption still doesn’t get rid of 9 months of pregnancy.

          I would never adopt a child of rape, especially a boy.

        • Solntsye

          Suppose she’s not willing to endure pregnancy and delivery of her rapists’ baby. Then what? Pregnancy is hardly a fun time, in most cases; and none of us can deny delivery is pure hell. It’s difficult even if the baby comes from a home with love and is quite wanted. It (pregnancy, labor, delivery) would be so much worse for the woman in the case of being unwilling to go through all this for her attackers child. My hat is off to the women who can do it, as I don’t think I’d ever be able to.

          Now, should the raped and pregnant woman decide she’s going to carry (whether she keeps and raises or puts up for adoption), I think society should enforce certain stipulations, such as: she can not lose her job for being ill/ tired during pregnancy, thus requiring days off; law enforcement should be required to fund all her healthcare regarding the pregnancy, as they were negligent in their work and this resulted in her attack and consequent pregnancy; and finally, she should be largely compensated financially at the expense of the state

          • Solntsye

            Sorry, my iPad frequently freezes. As I was saying, she should be compensated financially by the state, as it was a government agency (law enforcement) that failed at their duty, leading to her attack.

            I absolutely do not blame the poor child who was conceived in such horrific circumstances, and I can only hope that women who find themselves in such an awful scene could find some sense of healing out of carrying and delivering, as the baby is not guilty of the crimes of his/her father. But I can’t help but feel we should still allow women to decide what they feel they need to do in such circumstances. We should offer her complete convenience (not that laws would ever allow what I proposed), and all our support, to encourage her to be willing to carry and deliver. But force her to carry and deliver her rapists’ baby? I don’t know if I can feel morally justified in doing that.

          • Solntsye

            All right, then it double-posted?! Weird.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jon-Rich/1337561763 Jon Rich

    “Why would we then suggest or even pressure that a woman then, after
    she has already been through such an experience as a rape, go through
    with another experience that may add trauma to the experience?
    A woman who has become pregnant due to rape often does not want to abort her child of her own choice, but rather is pressured by those who are supposed to help the woman deal with her rape.”

    The point is that women shouldn’t be pressured in either direction. Let her truly make the choice for herself, and don’t just attack those who make a decision that is inconsistent with your ideology. I have no pressing need to pressure women to have an abortion; It’s the woman’s choice, for better and for worse. At least I’m intellectually honest about it, rather than hiding behind the idea that women must be protected from their own decisions. Let them make their decisions and deal with the consequences.

    • http://www.facebook.com/jeep.obsessed Brooke Mehr

      And our point is that the child is a valuable life, no matter how they were created. And destroying that life should never be a choice. It isn’t about forcing women in either direction, it is about encouraging them to understand that their child is alive and that ending that life will not necessarily bring them peace.

      • Suzie

        Brooke, if you don’t give them a choice, you are forcing.

        • http://www.facebook.com/jeep.obsessed Brooke Mehr

          It is still a matter that taking a life should not be a choice. We don’t give murderers a choice, we tell them that it is wrong to take the life. We shouldn’t give that choice to anyone.

        • bubbalouwee

          God gives everyone a free will.  Do not confuse free will with what is morally right.  Each person has a free will given by God and can utilize their free will to choose murder, a very grave sin.  Thus, a person has a free will to choose to kill, but it is never right.  Forgiveness can be found in Jesus Christ, including for the grave sin of murder.  Laws should reflect what is morally right.  However, in the USA, murder has been legal for decades. 

    • Ninek

      Murder isn’t “inconsistent with one’s ideology.”  Either cold blooded murder of an innocent is wrong or it’s not.  What you are hiding behind is “choice” which is the violent dismemberment of a human being.  People use the euphemism “choice” to make themselves feel better.  In the late 60’s, abortionists like Bernard Nathanson deliberately started using the word “choice” because it masked the true meaning of what abortion is.  If you really want to be honest, be honest with yourself about what happens to the human child during an abortion. 

    • http://www.frohardy.com/ Jeff Olson

      Hi Jon.  It’s not a woman’s right to kill another human being; despite the location of that human being (like in a womb).  This is very clear and is a moral commandment from God.  Also, if your logic is consistent, then the woman should also have the right to kill her attacker if she so chooses, so as to alleviate the trauma of her experience .  That’s not the law, though, nor should it be.  All human beings (developed or undeveloped) have a right to life.  But you already know this.

  • Detroiter327

    The Elliot Institute uses some of the most faulty and shoddy scientific method around. Their data and statistics have been proven flat out wrong several times. The man who runs it has a degree in electrical engineering! His “degree” in biomedical ethics comes from a correspondence school!!  How can you claim his “scientific research” is even close to credible!   And, as everyone knows, most people keep silent about their assaults. Its misleading to say its “only 1%” when the actual numbers are unknown. 

    • MoonChild02

      However, any and all research done by Reardon is not done alone. Just as many scientists have students or other unaccredited scientists work with them, he always works with accredited scientists. His name is often placed first because he’s the one funding the research. Look at any of the studies he’s done: he’s not the only name on them.

      • Detroiter327

        I actually looked at several last night. Even the ones done with a scientist have huge flaws in them. They have actually all been discredited. Im actually shocked they were used as a basis for any kind of legislation. 

  • frank maguire

    Just wanted to point out that in fact there are pro lifers who make the exception for rape not based on an emotional level but on a legalistic understanding. 

    Pro choicers ask how can we force a woman to carry her child?
    These pro lifers respond: because she, as a mother, is responsible for the child she created. 
    The argument is that even though the child is “violating a mothers bodily autonomy”, she made the original choice which put the fetus in this position. By having sex she took a risk that she would conceive and therefore create a child which would then be dependent on her boy for 9 months. (this logic underpins paternal financial responsibility).
    Thus the argument is “consent to sex= consent to pregnancy”
    in the case of rape there is no consent to pregnancy and therefore no responsibility to support the child. – the compromise is to remove the unborn child preserving bodily integrity and trying to save the premature babies life. thus abortion is still not neessary but death of the child is an unfortuanat unintended side effect of preserving the mothers bodily autonomy. 
    of course rebecca kiessling responds with legal arguments to this idea here
    http://www.rebeccakiessling.com/PhilosophicalAbortionEssay.html 

    but just be careful about dismissing them out of hand without fully understanding the reasoning behind it

    • Oedipa

      I’m not sure how your comments come anywhere near being a “legalistic
      understanding”. Rather, your fixation on sexual consent and the
      consequences you’d like to see formally assigned to ‘consent’ reveals you
      as just another puritan, more interested in crafting your own abstract
      penalties for licentious women than
      in any legal understanding that exists in the real world (ie: Griswold v. CT, not Ms.
      Kiessling’s self-indulgent philisophical potpourri).

      • http://twitter.com/CalFreiburger Calvin Freiburger

        Wow. You really can’t see anything beyond your ideological hang-ups about sex and morality, can you? It’s really something to see how little it takes you to start shouting puritan.

        • Oedipa

          Reread Frank’s post. Consent is the lynchpin for his view of reproductive rights (or lack thereof). I thought I was being generous by describing him as puritan, at least that gives him the benefit of believing it in some form of chastity, and not just leaning on a patriarchal chastisement of women who’d have the temerity to be sexually active.

          • http://twitter.com/CalFreiburger Calvin Freiburger

            So in other words, you believe it’s “puritanical” to make the simple point that knowingly creating a child gives one some measure of responsibility for that child.

            I rest my case.

  • JB

    Here’s what people need to understand regarding the pro-life view towards pregnancy from rape, pro-lifers aren’t saying that women aren’t smart enough to make their own decisions about pregnancy, they are also not attempting to diminish the traumatic experience of being raped.  Pro-lifers are saying that even in a situation as horrible as rape, there is a right way and a wrong way to solve a problem.  It is a dramatic experience for sure but the woman is not the only victim, the unborn child is also a victim.  We can’t just punish the child for what the rapist did.  I understand how going through with the pregnancy can seem like a dramatic experience for someone who was raped but abortion itself can also be a dramatic experience. 

    Many women who have had an abortion after they are raped regret that experience and for some the guilt of aborting their child is worst than the memory of being raped.  However having a child after rape can be a very positive experience and many women would say it’s a blessing in the midst of a tragedy.  It’s comforting to have a child they can love and it can be theraputic for a woman recovering from rape.  Aborting the child after rape can not cure the experience of rape it could only stand to make it worse but having the child could bring a lot of joy and help women to recover. 

    I know this may be hard to accept for a lot of pro-choice women, many think aborting the child just seems like the wisest choice and pro-lifers are cold and callous to suggest otherwise.  Many see it this way because society has accepted the premise that the unborn baby is not a person with value and presume that raising a child from abortion would lead to a terrible life for the child and mother.  The Pro-life view argues that this is simply not true.

  • Wade Felty

    You are a sick, sick puppy. I hope you are ashamed of what you are doing to other women. You are guilty of gender treachery. 

    • Violet

      Wow, where would our sex be without great guys like you to tell us how to tell us how to relate to one another?

      • Violet

        Oops, ignore the typo of inexplicably repeated text. o_0

  • Anadrs23

    If you don’t own a cotton plantation you should not speak against slavery. If you have never fought in the military you shouldn’t have an opinion against war. Until your family or friend has been killed by a murderer, you have no right to say anything about the death penalty… If you never been raped you shouldn’t be against the rape exception for abortion, if you were never conceived in rape you shouldn’t tell someone NOT  to oppose the rape exception….

  • Bei_storm

    This is more religious almost pro rape crap keep out of womens vagina’s would you?