Planned Parenthood baby onesie

Bad marketing move: Planned Parenthood sells baby onesies

Planned Parenthood baby onesieIn a remarkably baffling move, Planned Parenthood is selling baby onesies in its online Marketplace.

The abortion giant writes:

Care for your little one in this adorable 100% combed ringspun cotton onesie. Featuring our tagline, Care. No matter what, in an adorable heart design, this onesie is designed to handle everyday knock around.

Well, for starters, “everyday knock around” doesn’t exactly describe how a caring parent should treat an infant. (Keep in mind that these onesies are sold in sizes as small as newborn.) But I suppose the idea of “knocking around” a kid shouldn’t sound that foreign coming from an organization that performs abortions on 92% of pregnant women who come to it.

Especially not when you consider the reality of what abortion is.

Basically, you could say these onesies are designed for the 8 out of 100 unborn babies who make it out of Planned Parenthood alive. “Care. No matter what” seems a very appropriate slogan, indeed. Though I’d wager it’s interpreted more along the lines of “Care. As long as we don’t abort you first. Which we probably will.”

Also interesting is that these onesies are not sold in preemie sizes. Of course, Planned Parenthood supports a woman’s “right” to order her child to be executed up until birth. Is this failure to offer preemie sizes an indication of Planned Parenthood’s belief that babies born at twenty-some weeks of gestation should/could have been aborted anyway? Apparently the slogan “Care. No matter what” doesn’t extend to them.

Planned Parenthood baby onesieEven babies who are scientifically proven to feel pain will be freely aborted by Planned Parenthood. (Here we learn that “Care. No matter what” doesn’t apply to them, either.)

Furthermore, women, according to at least one Planned Parenthood president, “need the right to decide for themselves when life begins.” (Does this mean that if “knocking around” your infant goes a little too far, it’s okay, as long as the mother decided that her three-month-old wasn’t really a life anyway?) Dangerous ideas here, Planned Parenthood.

Needless to say, Planned Parenthood should probably rethink the idea of selling baby onesies to make a few extra dollars.

Not only is it baffling, but it’s also pretty despicable to use babies who survive the abortion culture to advertise for an organization that willingly kills their brothers and sisters – far more often than it allows them to live.

  • PJ4

    Planned Parenthood is selling baby onesies in its online Marketplace.

    Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

    *On a side note, they give out onesies for free at CPC’s.

  • Rebecca Rose Downs

    This is at the very least awkward, and kind of disgusting… also, it’s not just a campaign to bash Planned Parenthood. The title says it all. It’s a really bad and weird marketing campaign. Even a pro-choice friend of mine (trying to convert him slowly but surely) thinks it’s odd. This amounts to a quick buck for Planned Parenthood as well. Are they really that desperate???

    • PJ4

      Rebecca, if you’re trying to convert your friend have him read the comments of the pro aborts on here and on other sites.
      It worked for me!
      Sometimes you just have to let the pro abort work for you.
      Most sane people do not want to be affiliated with the crazy self absorbed narcissistic, selfish, depraved, non-compassionate, don’t-push-your-science-on-me pro aborts. Pro aborts need to dehumanize the child in utero. Sometimes it works to our advantage to see their true colors.

      Three of my friends are now pro life because of a few pro aborts on this site.
      I will forever be grateful to them.

    • lady_black

      Choice means exactly that. Choice. Including the choice to have the baby. Planned Parenthood doesn’t do deliveries, but they will give early pre-natal care.

      • Ingrid Heimark

        Link to them giving prenatal care?

      • Rebecca Rose Downs

        I never said or expected them to do deliveries. But their main aspect of business and a HUGE form of income for them is abortion. If you want pre-natal care, you’re kind of sh*t out of luck if you go to a Planned Parenthood. :-/

        • lady_black

          The least they will do is refer you to an obstetrician, which is where you really need to be. Even a family practitioner will do that these days. Back when I was young, you didn’t go to an obstetrician until later. Coincidentally, most Planned Parenthood clinics don’t do abortion either. They will make a referral if that’s what you want. They make referrals for adoption too.

          • PJ4

            Yes they do abortions
            Their adoption referrals are very low compared to their abortions

          • lady_black

            As I stated previously, the Planned Parenthood clinic in my city doesn’t now, and has never provided abortion care. Their adoption ratio is also dwarfed by their contraceptive ratio AND their STD treatment ratio. Irrelevant.

          • PJ4

            That’s great that they don’t provide abortions.
            Kudos to them.

          • Ingrid Heimark

            They won’t be a part of PP for long….

          • Calvin Freiburger

            Yeah, although LB’s defense of her PP is kind of like saying KKK membership is no big deal as long as you don’t *personally* participate in cross-burnings.

          • DianaG2

            or lynchings . . .

          • e_i_l_e_e_n

            Yeah, reminds me of the Nazi camp guards who claimed they didn’t know about, or participate in the gassing deaths in the concentration camps.

          • PJ4

            ooh.. was this your PP?
            Don’t worry.. they got off

            http://www.onenewsnow.com/legal-courts/2013/12/27/judge-clears-abortion-giant-in-bungled-pregnancy-tests#.UwvFJv1Okds

            ah well.. at least it wasn’t this one.. (not PP incipiently… just an abortion mill)

            http://www.lifenews.com/2014/02/12/filthy-illinois-abortion-clinic-gets-36000-fine-reduced-to-77/

            interesting that liberal news outlets don’t talk about this stuff though

            or this one:
            http://articles.latimes.com/2008/mar/08/local/me-billing8

          • DianaG2

            <>

            “Abortion CARE?”

            (Is that like day care?)

            Barf bag please.

            The pro-abort can’t even type out the name of that which she supports so fervently — without sticking a few extraneous syllables in there, to soften the sound and (she hopes) meaning?

            She needs that DISTANCE.

          • e_i_l_e_e_n

            LB is trying VERY hard to defend PP, but her word-smithed and soft sounding defenses are lame. Nice try, Planned Parenthood, but we know what you are really about – perfunctory death to unwanted children!

          • Rebecca Rose Downs

            I’m sorry, but where did you read that? No offense, but you are sorely misinformed. Planned Parenthood’s abortions outnumbered abortion referrals 149 to 1. And there was actually a mandate that all affiliates were going to be required to perform abortions…

          • lady_black

            No, no and NO! There was never going to be any such “mandate.” And I think you meant abortion referrals outnumber ADOPTION referrals. That’s true. Adoption is not as popular these days, so that isn’t surprising. Adoption is much less popular than birth control as well. That’s because adoption is an answer to unwanted parenting. It’s not an answer to unwanted pregnancy.

          • PJ4

            Oh man.. I love it when you’re wrong did I tell you that?

            If I had a dime for every time you’ve been wrong about something in these past few weeks…

            ah well…

            There was never going to be any such “mandate.”

            Oh really?

            http://www.lifenews.com/2011/01/17/planned-parenthood-to-implement-abortion-mandate-by-2013/
            and
            http://dailycaller.com/2010/12/23/planned-parenthood-plans-to-expand-abortion-services-nationwide/

            You were saying?

            It’s not an answer to unwanted pregnancy.

            killing the child is not the answer either

          • Elizabeth Volkmer

            they abort more babies than they offer adoption referrals for

      • DianaG2

        <>

        Joke, right?

  • lady_black

    LOL. Please.

    • PJ4

      I know.. PP selling onsies is one of the most ridiculous things on the planet..
      You are correct there madam

      • lady_black

        No, I’m laughing at the scathing use of “everyday knock around.” Back in the day, we called those play clothes. The author is making a ridiculous argument. Isn’t giving birth a legitimate choice anymore? Planned Parenthood says it is.

        • PJ4

          Planned Parenthood kills 93% of the babies that crosses their paths.
          So yes, it’s a joke that they’re selling baby clothes.

          • lady_black

            I doubt that. But if anyone is killing babies, including Planned Parenthood, call 911 and report it.

          • PJ4

            Babies in the womb, silly pro abort.
            We are babies in the womb and out of the womb.

            Calling 911 didn’t work with Carhart of Karsen.

          • lady_black

            They are ending pregnancies. If they are killing babies, call 911. That’s what I would do.

          • PJ4

            YOu cannot be that dim.
            There are 2 ways to end a pregnancy:
            Giving birth or killing the child before hand.

            Can you believe no one called 911 on Gosnel?
            Or Karpen?

          • Rebecca Rose Downs

            To echo, PJ4, what do you think a woman is pregnant with?? It’s a baby. We just can’t see him or her, who is also in a different developmental stage than you and me. But that does not make them any less of a human being with the right to life. They’re killing them, just before they come out of the womb.

          • Calvin Freiburger

            Wow. I can’t even get annoyed at such a lazily juvenile exercise of semantics. All I feel is pity.

  • Martin Wagner

    It’s only “remarkably baffling” if you’re stupid enough to think PP is an “abortion giant” and not what it actually is: a full-service women’s health and family planning facility.

    • PJ4

      Apparently there are some people stupid enough to believe the Church of Planned Parenthood is a full service women’s health and family service planning facility

      • Martin Wagner

        STD testing – 40% of services
        Contraception – 32% of services
        Cancer screening and prevention – 12% of services

        Google is your friend, unless facts are your enemy. And I can see they are.

        • Rebecca Rose Downs

          And are you going to mention that abortion also accounts for only 3% of their services…? :-/

          • Martin Wagner

            Could have done, but I thought focusing on everything they do to help prevent unwanted pregnancies in the first place — which is incalculably more than folks like Live Action News — was probably a message the readers here are never allowed to hear.

          • Ingrid Heimark

            You mean like saying you shouldn’t have sex unless you are prepared for a baby, contra PPs sex is for everyone, everytime, BC is good, abortion is a happy backup?

          • Martin Wagner

            If that’s LAN’s message, then yes, it’s a bad one. Birth control is a very good thing, sex is a normal and healthy act of adult intimacy, and consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy any more than consent to a date is consent to sex.

          • Ingrid Heimark

            So when I consent to drive, I don’t consent to pay fines if I speed…. Is that sound reasoning?

          • Martin Wagner

            I’ll take Bad Analogies for $500, Alex. NOT speeding while driving prevents accidents…just like properly using contraception during sex. Try again.

          • Ingrid Heimark

            Still, pregnancy is a natural consequence of sex, and choosing to have sex, without accepting an eventual child should BC fail, is irresponsible, the baby is innocent

          • Martin Wagner

            Pregnancy is only one possible consequence of one particular sexual act, male/female coitus. Should contraception fail, choices should be available to the mother, one of which should be safe and legal abortion. Make no mistake: if you don’t believe, for example, that banning guns will stop gun violence, you should not for a minute believe banning abortions will stop abortion.

          • Ingrid Heimark

            I believe banning abortion will drastically reduce abortion, and I don’t believe in allowing abortion, which should be a crime, for the sake of the killer

          • Martin Wagner

            Actually, the number of abortions is already decreasing, due to people becoming better informed and the availability of contraception. Efforts to ban the practice would in fact undermine that and drive illegal, deadly back alley abortions back up. And your assessment of women who have abortions as killers shows a disgraceful lack of empathy on your part. There could be any number of reasons that come up why an abortion might take place. One of my best friends is only alive today because she had a medically necessary abortion. If that had not been available, the lovely little boy she already has would no longer have a mother. I’d say she has pretty strong family values.

          • Ingrid Heimark

            In fact, it is the woman who chooses to have an illegal abortion, she shouldn’t do that. And empathy isn’t the pro-aborts strongest side. I empathize with women who have crisis pregnancies, I emphazise even more with those tiny babies being ripped apart piece by piece in the anme of choice. Medically necessary abortions is not the issue here, and you know that

          • Martin Wagner

            No, the issue is you don’t believe a pregnant woman has bodily autonomy.

          • Ingrid Heimark

            Of course she does, but not to the point of killing another human being created by her own actions. Whatever else the pregnant woman does is none of my business

          • Martin Wagner

            So the instant a woman becomes pregnant, her status for the duration of gestation goes from “human being” to “walking incubator.” Women are slaves to their reproductive systems before they are anything else.

          • Ingrid Heimark

            No, and actually that is so silly that I won’t even give it an answer

          • Martin Wagner

            Then NOT being a slave to her womb would entail full bodily autonomy, including the right to consent to sex or not, the right to use contraception, and the right to deal with any unintended pregnancy in any manner she chooses, including termination. There’s really no other way around it.

          • Ingrid Heimark

            In no way does any pregnancy take away the woman’s status as a human being, which is what you wrote. She has the right to have sex, she has the right to use contraception, she does NOT have the right to kill another human being like herself due to his place of living at his developmental stage

          • Martin Wagner

            So how are the fetus’s human rights equal to hers? And can you explain why so many conservatives who think as you do don’t consider the rights of, say, 6 year old schoolchildren to be greater than the “right” of any lunatic to wander around public with an assault rifle? Is this really about the innocent life? Or is this about finding ways to punish women for having sexual choices and agency?

          • Ingrid Heimark

            Human life starts at conception, so does human rights. And I don’t appreciate being called to answer why others have opinions I don’t relate to

          • Martin Wagner

            You should think about those other opinions, because those people are on your side of the argument. Anyway, even if human life began at conception, which is arguable, how do human rights? And again, why do the fetuses rights always trump those of the mother. A blastocyst has more human rights than an adult woman? Which one of those is contributing meaningfully to society right now? Which one holds down a job, votes, goes to school, church, runs for political office?

          • Ingrid Heimark

            A unbrn baby doesn’t have any more rights than a woman, but the unborns right to LIFE trumphs liberty. Life trumphs everything

          • Martin Wagner

            So you’re cool with a total ban on gun ownership and capital punishment?

          • PJ4

            So your equally as cool with a total ban on abortions?

          • Martin Wagner

            Ah, but I’m not against gun ownership. And I’m only against capital punishment because of known flaws in the judicial system.

          • PJ4

            I’m against capital punishment as well

          • Ingrid Heimark

            Yes, you don’t believe in the death penalty for the rapist, for the innocent child on the pther hand….

          • Martin Wagner

            I just can’t get behind rewarding the rapist for forcing pregnancy on a terrified girl by ruining the rest of her life into the bargain. I am actually perfectly okay with not hating women that much.

          • Ingrid Heimark

            I think we should destigmatize being raped so that the victims seek emergency treatment so as to not get pregnant. However, if they do, we should not make her a perpetrator as well. Have you ever talked to rape victims that chose life and listened to their stories, as well as rape victims that felt their abortion was even worse than the original rape?

          • PJ4

            But you hate babies enough to want to end their lives based on who their is?

          • Ingrid Heimark

            Yes

          • Martin Wagner

            Okay then.

          • Martin Wagner

            Enjoyed the debate, everyone. Must get back to work. Thanks for letting me present an opposing view.

          • Rebecca Rose Downs

            The fetus doesn’t trump the rights, he/she merely holds equal rights. We can’t just murder the mother and get away with it, and thus we shouldn’t be able to do the same with her unborn child. And your latter argument is ridiculous. A toddler can’t do those things yet, but do we have the right to kill him? What about a severely disabled person, or someone who doesn’t have the money to run for political office, a very expensive endeavor.

          • Martin Wagner

            The fetus doesn’t hold equal rights if it can legally compel the use of another’s body to sustain itself. It holds special rights. Good question about disabled people: should the government be able to legally FORCE me to saw off my leg and give it to the disabled man? I’m sure you’d agree that’s silly. Should the parent of a 4 year old be legally FORCED to donate organs to the child even if the child would die otherwise? If not, why should that 4 year old have fewer rights than the fetus, which gets unrestricted use of the body of its mother? Is a 4 year old child’s life less precious than that of a 4 week old embryo?

          • Calvin Freiburger

            even if human life began at conception, which is arguable”

            Please correct your biological illiteracy before continuing. It’ll save everyone a lot of time.

            Which one of those is contributing meaningfully to society right now? Which one holds down a job, votes, goes to school, church, runs for political office?

            Those are what define whose basic human rights deserve protection? I think you’re a little confused — your side’s goal in debating abortion is to make yourselves sound LESS like fascist lunatics, not more.

          • Rebecca Rose Downs

            The fetus has equal rights to his or her mother because they are both human beings. The fetus, merely a very early stage of human existence, one where we have all been at, is thought of as having less rights because of size, location and developmental stage.

            And this argument/thread/site is about abortion.
            And nobody is punishing women for having sexual choices! It’s merely asking people to take responsibility for their actions, especially when another human person’s life is at stake!

          • Martin Wagner

            Aborting an unplanned pregnancy is taking responsibility.

            And I still find the notion that when a person is a blastocyst, they possess the greatest “human rights” anyone could possibly possess, including the use of an unconsenting person’s internal organs to sustain themselves. After you’re born, your rights are substantially fewer.

          • PJ4

            Are you joking?
            When we are blastocysts the mother doesn’t even know she’s pregnant
            We have beating hearts, body parts and functioning organs by the time most mothers find out they are with child.

          • Rebecca Rose Downs

            It’s taking responsibility if killing another human being because it’s convenient for you, to cover up your mistake is taking responsibility…

            And actually, I’m glad you made that point. When the unborn child goes through the different stages in the womb, it’s not that they posses greater human rights more than the rest of us. It is worth pointing out though that being at such stages is when they have no voice, when they are the most innocent, vulnerable and defenseless and so we must be their voice.

          • Calvin Freiburger

            Aborting an unplanned pregnancy is taking responsibility.

            This line is completely, insipidly demented, but as a pro-lifer I honestly kind of appreciate how it’s gotten more and more popular lately. It helps separate the ones who still have some critical thinking skills to appeal to from the platitude regurgitation zombies.

          • Calvin Freiburger

            This is probably a waste of time, given the glorious absence of independent critical thought most of your comments display, but “how are the fetus’s human rights equal to hers” actually has a very simple answer: the pregnant woman is here at all because her equal right to not be killed in the womb was respected when she was a fetus. Just because not all circumstances are identical at all times doesn’t mean the parties’ basic rights aren’t equal.

          • PJ4

            Not true.
            Her bodily autonomy does not trump the child’s right to life.

          • Martin Wagner

            Quick, I need a blood transfusion! I demand one from you, right now or I’ll die! Does your bodily autonomy trump my “right to life”?

          • PJ4

            You’re right, straw men are much easier to deconstruct as you’ve proven here.

            1. you wouldn’t have to force me I’d freely give it. I’m not a pro abort therefore I’m not selfish.

            2. Once I give you blood, I cannot ask for it back

            You are asking for forced organ recall.

          • Martin Wagner

            I didn’t ask you what you’d “freely give.” Remember, choice is out of the picture here. What should the law be able to FORCE you to do? Can the law force you to donate part of your body for the sustenance of any other body against your will?

            Remember, if your argument is that fetuses have personhood, then adults undeniably have personhood. Why should pregnant women be treated any differently than anyone else in matters of how the government can dictate to what end you use your very own BODY for the benefit of another?

          • PJ4

            Why should the government allow forced organ recall?
            Once an organ is given (wether freely or not)
            You cannot ask for it back.
            No matter how much you may regret it.
            Or are you saying the law can for the donor to give it back?

          • Ingrid Heimark

            You know, forcing yourself to someone elses blood is an active act, leaving the unborn there alone is passive. You need to act actively to take his life. That alone is a huge difference

          • Martin Wagner

            So suddenly it’s okay to take an innocent life if you do it passively?

          • PJ4

            No
            You are being purposely dim

            The woman created the life.
            She is responsible for seeing the child is safe. Not killed.
            What other person would you afford the ability to kill their offspring?

          • Ingrid Heimark

            Did I say that?

          • PJ4

            No he’s being dim
            and constructing straw men

          • Rebecca Rose Downs

            You have become proof that the pro-choice crowd really does make such ridiculous arguments. A pregnant woman’s status doesn’t change or make her a slave! In most cases of pregnancy, a woman consented to the act that is known to create babies. Women can become pregnant so long as they are fertile. It’s a biological fact…

            The bodily autonomy argument is such a faulty one! There is another body inside the woman’s…

          • Ingrid Heimark

            This is what happens when pro-aborts really discuss, their arguments go from somewhat reasonable if it weren’t for the babys life to completely idiotic in minutes

          • Martin Wagner

            And its mere existence suddenly trumps the autonomy of the woman? How?

            You cannot even harvest organs from dead bodies unless you have consent of the donor, before he died. But you’re telling women that the minute they become pregnant, even if they did not consent to, that their bodily autonomy is null and void and they must be forced to carry the baby to term. You consider women less worthy of bodily rights than a corpse. Seriously, wth?

          • Rebecca Rose Downs

            Because what has “mere existence” is a human person…

          • PJ4

            Again with your straw men.
            You have an army of them by now.

          • PJ4

            On no… on the contrary, unborn babies are the property of the mother like blacks were the property of whites
            They can dispose of them as they please.
            Right?

          • lady_black

            Well, the mother certainly isn’t property of the fetus.

          • PJ4

            never implied that

          • lady_black

            I believe people shouldn’t drink alcohol. No exceptions. Let’s make alcohol illegal. Oh wait…

          • PJ4

            I believe kids shouldn’t bully other kids. No exceptions
            Let’s make bullying illegal.
            Oh wait

          • Ingrid Heimark

            Doe alcohol kill another than the person choosing to use it?

          • lady_black

            Yes. It does.

          • lady_black

            My mother was in the same boat. I’m glad she had the abortion, and I got to have her for many more years.

          • PJ4

            My mother was told to abort both times she was pregnant, once with my brother, once with me.
            She has a congenital heart disease and was told that she wouldn’t survive either pregnancies.

            I’m so glad she found different doctors.

          • lady_black

            Was your mother bleeding out?

          • PJ4

            No
            But they still insisted it was “for her health”

          • PJ4

            Not one of us here would want to stop a medically necessary abortion as it’s the only justifiable type.
            You have an army of straw men.

          • Basset_Hound

            And Princess Jasmine is there to throw the kerosene torch. Boo-Yah.

          • PJ4

            Make no mistake: If you believe making rape illegal will stop rape, you’re completely delusional .

          • Ingrid Heimark

            And you still don’t legalize rape for the sake of the rapist

          • PJ4

            If Martin et al had their way rape would be legal.
            Just like slavery, theft and infanticide would be legal in their perfect world.
            After all, making something illegal wont stop it, so what’s the point?

          • Martin Wagner

            Straw men are so much easier than making real arguments, aren’t they?

            I was simply pointing out the irony and hypocrisy of the anti-choice crowd. The same people who refuse even to entertain the idea of better gun laws, even when lunatics are out there shooting up elementary schools, are the same people who squeal “Oh noes, no abortions, abortions kill innocent lives!” Yeah, so do assault rifles. But you want a total abortion ban and no regulation at all over firearms. Do you really expect me to believe you care about the innocent lives?

            No, this is about controlling and regulating women and their bodies. So in fact, you’re a bit more in the pro-slavery camp, are you not? :-)

          • Ingrid Heimark

            You don’t know anything about how many of us feel about guns, and if we so are to have this comparison, EVERY abortion takes a life, most guns don’t. (I don’t believe in guns, but the most deadly of the two are most definitely abortion)

          • PJ4

            The same people who refuse even to entertain the idea of anti abortion laws, even when lunatics are out there snapping the heads of new borns and killing mothers, are the same people who squeal “Oh noes no guns, guns kill innocent lives!” Yeah, so do abortions. But you want a total gun ban and no regulation over abortions. Do you really expect me to believe you care about the innocent lives?

          • Rebecca Rose Downs

            Well, I guess we could say you would know that straw men arguments are easier to make since you have made quite a few. And unfortunately don’t really know how to behave in mature civil discourse.

          • Martin Wagner

            Where have I misrepresented you, Rebecca?

          • Rebecca Rose Downs

            You make assumptions about pro-lifers and Live Action. You act immaturely.

          • Timmehh

            Quite frankly, hardly anyone here knows how to have a mature, civil discourse.

          • Mary Lee

            Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

          • Martin Wagner

            Funny, aren’t you the guys who think even raped women shouldn’t have access to legal abortions? Something about how their bodies just shut that whole thing down? Or was it “place an aspirin between your knees”? I forget.

          • Rebecca Rose Downs

            That was Foster Friess, who has no connection to Live Action. Again, I’m sorry to say I had high expectations for you which have been dashed with every new post from you.

            Many of us on this site, and a lot of pro-life groups actually, hold the position that while rape is by no doubts a tragedy, it does not mean that the unborn child (who is just as much a victim) deserves the death penalty for the crimes of his/her father. Abortion does not undo the rape and may also make the trauma even worse for the woman, sadly.

          • Ingrid Heimark

            We oppose rape, and we oppose the death penalty for the innocent. You support the killing of an innocent child for the crime of her father. That is kinda cruel

          • Martin Wagner

            What’s cruel is forcing an already traumatized rape victim to continue the rape for 9 months through forced birth. Your position actually rewards the crime of the “father,” which is a strange way to oppose rape.

          • Ingrid Heimark

            So making a traumatized innocent rape victim into a killer is your solution?

          • Martin Wagner

            Except she isn’t a killer. If she didn’t consent to the pregnancy, her choice trumps everything.

            Let’s play a little game. Let’s say you have a five year old child who desperately needs an organ transplant or a blood transfusion, without which it will die. Completely disregarding what you might CHOOSE to do, because choice is off the table, should the law be allowed to force you to donate one of your organs to your child?

          • Ingrid Heimark

            No matter if she consented to the coital act (the preganncy thing is just a way to make me say something against what I said), if she kills the child she is a killer. This is obvious.

            I am not going to play the organ game, cause it isn’t relevant, the baby needs a place to live, oxygen and nutrients, not an organ

          • lady_black

            Uh no. The “baby” needs an organ. A uterus to be exact. Not “a place to live, oxygen and nutrients.” Those can be found in a refrigerator.

          • Ingrid Heimark

            They live inside her uterus. it is not removed from her body, they just stay in there, it is not the same as organ replacement

          • Griffonn

            The existence of rape victims who have regretted their abortions (and, yes, they do exist) suggests that your plan is more about your agenda than actually protecting them from harm.

            Since rape victims are potentially still not in a position to make informed consent, we should remove the child by c-section as soon as it potentially viable, and if the mother does not want the child (assuming it survives) adoptive parents should be found.

          • lady_black

            Then neither can she consent to a C-section, Einstein.

          • Griffonn

            Then I guess she’ll just have to deliver the baby.

            Because abortion is going to be outlawed soon. It is in the same category of human rights as wifebeating and slave owning, and that ugly little secret is becoming harder for you guys to keep under wraps…

          • Mary Lee

            Ridiculous. Please click on my username to read my many posts which address/refute your “arguments” using science, reason, and logic. I am caring for an ailing parent right now and don’t have the time to explain this for the millionth time.

            *sigh*

          • Griffonn

            My solution is to try to deliver the baby live at what ever point the earliest known surviving delivery has occurred (currently 22 weeks, I believe).

            If it’s rape, the baby is taken away; the mother does not even need to know if the child lives or not.

            If it’s not rape, both mother and father can immediately begin paying child support until adoptive parents can be found.

            Some women are traumatized by the realization that they deliberately killed their own child. Cognitive dissonance is only a temporary painkiller.

            There is every reason to suppose that a c-section where the child has a reasonable chance of survival is far less traumatic for everyone than an abortion.

          • Ingrid Heimark

            I aree that termianting a pregnancy prematurely by birth is much more moral than abortion, however this should be done when the baby has a sure chance at survival, so waiting to 28 weeks is clearly best

          • lady_black

            *Your* definition of “what’s best” applies only to *YOUR* SELF. I would never ask your permission, nor do I need to.

          • Ingrid Heimark

            No, there has to be some sort of rules, such as not to kill, not to rape, not to steal etc, or there will be anarchy

          • lady_black

            Force a rape victim to pay child support. Have you lost your mind?

          • Ingrid Heimark

            Read it again,,,,,

          • lady_black

            And who gets to determine whether or not it’s rape?

          • Ingrid Heimark

            The woman has to report it, that is the only way

          • lady_black

            Yeah? That’s not going to happen.

          • Ingrid Heimark

            Because she will claim rape when it didn’t happen or because she won’t report it? Report the rape beforehand is the only way to make it just, you don’t need to name your rapist

          • PJ4

            Well since you trust the courts and the law so much…

          • lady_black

            When it comes to rape, I don’t trust them at all.

          • PJ4

            You only trust them when it comes to stuff that fits your agenda.

          • Griffonn

            No, the rape victim would be exempt from child support.

            Women who were not raped should pay child support, though.

            There is no reason why the right to bodily autonomy necessarily includes the right to kill another person. It is possible to remove the baby without killing it, so we should do so – and then there is no reason why women should be any more exempt from child support and medical costs than men currently are.

          • lady_black

            So no child support. And who determines if it’s rape or not? But you would subject a rape victim to unnecessary major surgery?

          • Griffonn

            I think we should start off generous re: determining rape, and only set limits if there is evidence of widespread abuse.

            As far as subjecting a rape victim to unnecessary major surgery, why do you imagine that is less intrusive than the alternative? Should I return the “favor” and ask if you just want the poor rape victim to live with a lifetime of shame, regret, and a sense of squandered possibilities?

          • Griffonn

            I would also argue that we should immediately do whatever has to be done to make it legal for nonprofit groups to offer this as an alternative.

            If a prolife group had the power to offer a 25 week C-section as an alternative to abortion for rape victims, I am sure there are rape victims who would take the offer – and I am sure there are people who would volunteer $$.

          • lady_black

            Now you’re just making things up.

          • Griffonn

            I think there’s more evidence that you just hate babies than there is that you actually care about rape victims.

            But then it’s long been a pet peeve of mine the way you guys stop caring about what happens to a woman as soon as her baby is dead. You guys as a group are everything you accuse your rivals of being, that’s for sure!

          • PJ4

            No force the rapist to pay child support

          • lady_black

            Nice work, if you can get it.

          • lady_black

            My solution is anything that will help her feel whole again.

          • Ingrid Heimark

            And so many rape victims have said abortion did the opposite

          • lady_black

            And so many haven’t said that.

          • Ingrid Heimark

            So you think abortion makes her unraped?

          • lady_black

            Nope. I think it makes her un-pregnant.

          • PJ4

            What’s cruel is forcing death on a baby because who their father is.

            I suppose you would personally tell these people they have no right to share a bus with you because of who their fathers were and because of the means by which they were conceived.

            http://www.rebeccakiessling.com/Othersconceivedinrape.html

            Go ahead… They’re obviously an abomination to you.

          • lady_black

            Many women would carry a pregnancy that was the result of rape. I have no problem with that. Don’t expect I ever would. Not going to happen. I’m opposed to FORCING women to be raped again every day for nine months. That is NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

          • Ingrid Heimark

            I garee, if anyone rpaes a woman every day for months, they should be put in a casket with an oxygentube and never see light again, Pregnancy however, is not rape, it can be the result of it, but isn’t rape

          • lady_black

            It is to the victim, who doesn’t want to be forced to birth the spawn of a criminal.

          • PJ4

            No, it’s not
            you’re changing definitions again.

          • lady_black

            So when a man who’s unhappy about a high auto repair bill speaks of “bending over and taking it up the tailpipe” he’s “redefining” something? Or is he speaking figuratively?

          • PJ4

            No, he’s using hyperbole.
            Something you’re very good at

          • Ingrid Heimark

            This came from the person so comitted to clean definitions…..

          • lady_black

            There are different definitions of rape, literal and figurative. Women speak of feeling “raped again by the police” when they report sexual assaults. That doesn’t mean they are literally raped by a police officer. It’s figurative.

          • Calvin Freiburger

            “The spawn of a criminal”

            What kind of vile human being so crudely degrades anyone else solely on the basis of a father’s crimes?

          • PJ4

            Funny that people like you give Whoopee Goldberg a pass on describing Polanski’s pedohphilia as “Well, it’s not really rape, rape” yet are up in arms about some politician’s guffaw

          • Martin Wagner

            Straw man. I’ve said nothing about either Whoopi or Polanski. Who is a rapist who should be in prison.

            Is there anything else you’d like to lie about?

          • PJ4

            LOL, I said people like you, not you, silly pro abort.

          • lady_black

            I’m disappointed in Whoopi if she really said that. That was a very dumb thing to say.

          • PJ4
          • Calvin Freiburger

            Also, have some context about your attempt to smear us with Todd Akin: http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2012/08/22/missouri-voters-chose-akin-not-so-much/

          • Kristiburtonbrown

            What ever happened to responsibility? As in, anyone who’s old enough to choose to have sex is also old enough to know that pregnancy may happen. And they are also old enough to take responsibility for any child they help to create. Killing a child for something you did (i.e., helping to create them through sex) is most certainly not responsibility. Why do innocent children have to pay – with their lives, often in cruel ways – for the choices and actions of adults?

          • lady_black

            Having an abortion is a responsible action. It might not be what you would do. But that isn’t the same thing.

          • Mary Lee

            Gosh we’ve never heard these “arguments” before

          • Lisa Nelson

            Except there is a huge difference between guns and abortion. The difference is while guns are a PRODUCT abortion is a SERVICE.

            If a product gets banned it doesn’t just vanish. And because it doesn’t vanish it’s always going to be possible for someone to get it. For examples see Prohibition and Every Illegal Drug Ever.

            Because services are intangible if they are banned they will largely vanish. And while people can continue to offer an illegal service, it will be much harder for them to do so.

          • lady_black

            Services don’t vanish either. A quick visit to your local red light district will confirm that…

          • Ingrid Heimark

            But again, that doesn’t kill

          • lady_black

            Who cares? That wasn’t the argument being made. The argument being made was that abortion is a service that will “disappear” magically if it’s made illegal. It’s a NONSENSE argument.

          • Ingrid Heimark

            It will be greatly reduced, and that means alot of lives will be saved.

          • lady_black

            Like prostitution is great reduced?

          • Ingrid Heimark

            It can’t be compared, having sex is easy, abortion is provenly reduced when it is illegal, Poland is an example

          • lady_black

            Rich women still get abortions in and out of Poland. Just like they did here. Only rich women don’t have “abortions” they have D&Cs.

          • Ingrid Heimark

            But considerably fewer have abortions, thus many lives are saved

          • Lisa Nelson

            An abortion clinic is harder to hide than a prostitute. Making something illegal not only makes it harder and more expensive to exist it allows better punishment for offenders.

          • lady_black

            I don’t believe prostitution should be illegal. It should be legal. We shouldn’t be “punishing” consenting adults who trade sex for money, or women who don’t want to give birth, or people who want to smoke a little pot. None of those things are anyone’s business but the people involved.

          • Lisa Nelson

            Opinions on legalizing prostitution and marijuana are a side issue. People should not be allowed to kill their offspring at any age. While I don’t believe women who get abortions should be punished, (that should be the abortionist) abortion kills so it should be illegal.

          • lady_black

            What about hot tubs? OTC medication? Alcohol? Smoking? Coffee? Who are you going to punish?

          • Lisa Nelson

            Hot tubs, OTC medication, alcohol and coffee aren’t illegal. And smoking’s only illegal in certain places.

            I don’t understand why you brought this up or what this has to do with abortion. These are either side issues or random words that you’ve thrown at me in an attempt to distract from the real issue.

          • lady_black

            All things known to cause miscarriage.

          • Lisa Nelson

            There is a difference between a miscarriage and an abortion. And by saying that the two are the same you are spitting in the face of every singe woman who has ever had a miscarriage.

          • MamaBear

            She is talking potential risks, some still being debated, not actual causes. There is a difference. And as for the coffee and alcohol, think about how many women we have all known who continued to drink coffee and moderate amounts of alcohol. In fact if alcohol caused miscarriages, there would be no babies born with fetal alcohol syndrome.
            It is similar to not ever having children or having them late in your childbearing years increases risks for breast cancer, but does not cause it. Another area “nurse” LB has difficulty with.

          • Lisa Nelson

            Yeah, I noticed lady_black has trouble with facts.

          • PJ4

            Do you believe in free love or do you believe it’s ok to pay for sex

            You can’t have it both ways

          • Calvin Freiburger

            Hm. Using your ignorant, prejudiced caricature of conservatives gun views as support for your ignorant, prejudiced caricature of pro-life views. Interesting tactic.

          • lady_black

            This has nothing to do with innocence. Those who choose not to parent should never be forced into it. It’s not fair to treat a child as a consequence.

          • Ingrid Heimark

            True, that’s why we have adoption

          • lady_black

            Adoption is an answer to unwanted parenting. It does NOTHING for an unwanted pregnancy.

          • Rebecca Rose Downs

            And this is why people can also abstain. It has everything to do with innocence when the one being killed is innocent. And you’re going to talk about what’s fair when it comes to a child? Abortion is the ultimate form of what’s not fair, how some children get to die before they’re even born. But anyways, it is pregnancy which is the consequence. And a woman is pregnant with a child. When a woman has sex, sometimes she gets an STI or conceives a child. That is the consequence of her action.

          • Ingrid Heimark

            Yes, it doesn’t help anyone saying consent to sex isn’t consent to HIV

          • lady_black

            It isn’t. but you don’t expect anyone to just do nothing if they get HIV, do you?

          • lady_black

            I don’t WANT to abstain, Rebecca! I didn’t get married so I could abstain. Have you lost your mind? Even if there were no such thing as abortion, “children” would still “get to die” before and after they are born. That’s the nature of our existence. If you had never been born, trust me, you wouldn’t know the difference and neither would I. Life is unfair. We do the best we can. It “isn’t fair” that my mom lost a wanted pregnancy, and it “wasn’t fair” that it almost killed her. She went on with life and gave birth to my brother later on. And NOBODY is “just going to live with” an STD that can be treated. You’re DREAMING.

          • Kathryn A. O’Keefe

            It’s not fair to treat a human as an unfortunate side-effect.

            It’s not fair to treat another human as expendable.

            It’s not fair to treat a child as being less human than an adult.

            It’s not fair to act as if a person has no human dignity simply because they are at an earlier stage of development than you are.

            However, it is logical to recognize a child as a consequence of sex. People have this stupid idea that “consequence” means “bad thing,” however, if I were to say, “I did well in school, and the consequence of this action is receiving a full-ride scholarship,” no one would think that that’s a bad thing. So why is it, that when referring to children as a natural possible consequence of sex, that people take that negatively, or as if it should be stigmatized? Children are no more or less bad than your average Joe. Maybe the issue isn’t pro-lifers recognizing children as being a possible consequence of sex, but the pro-choicers’ problem of acting as if the solution to the problem of unwanted children is to get rid of them.

          • lady_black

            I agree not all consequences are bad. Being pregnant when you don’t want to be pregnant is BAD. Being pregnant when you do want to be is GOOD. Pregnancy should always be good, but that’s never going to happen. We need to concentrate on making as many of them good as we can. I’ve gone into more detail in other comments about that. But you are never going to have a world where every pregnancy is desirable. Because, you know, human nature.

          • Kathryn A. O’Keefe

            That works under the notion that simply because something, or someone, is unwanted, that it’s necessarily bad. I don’t WANT a lot of things, and I don’t WANT to be around or associated with (or in general, have anything at all to do with) certain people. That does not make those people or things BAD, nor should they be the ones treated as the problem.

            Human nature also accounts for people trying to protect others, which is what both sides in this debate should always be trying to do. However, pro-choicers stress concern for the mother only, which only protects a single person. Pro-lifers (in general, although there are some fanatics, as there is in any group) stress protection of the child, but only because it is the one who’s life is being threatened, which means that all its basic human rights are being violated. That does not mean that pro-lifers do not care about the mother as a person, as someone who needs help, but it does show prioritizing on basis of immediate danger to the most important of rights, being that of a person’s actual life (also a natural human reaction).

          • lady_black

            There is nothing you can do to “protect” whatever isn’t in your power to protect. Unless you plan on jailing all pregnant women, give it up. You don’t have the power to control what anyone other than yourself does.

          • PJ4

            One could say that about a number of crimes

          • Kathryn A. O’Keefe

            So simply because we can’t protect every single person, we shouldn’t even try? That is illogical. That is exactly the same thing as saying that just since we can’t prevent all killings, we shouldn’t make homicide illegal, or try to prevent it.

          • lady_black

            You can try to keep the ocean from washing sand up on the beach if you want to. You can bail out a leaky battleship with a thimble.

          • Kathryn A. O’Keefe

            Intriguingly though, preventing abortions is a heck of a lot more practical than either of those pathetic examples. See, at this point, you haven’t even offered a valid rebuttal to me, you’re just trying to use demoralizing tactics, which are completely ridiculous.

            While it’s not possible to prevent every single homicide, it is possible to stop many of them. Trying to argue that it’s hopeless is just lazy, on your part. Simply because not every single one can be prevented does not mean that it should be left alone, it simply means that more people should try.

          • PJ4

            Ok… driving while intoxicated is absolute consent to getting into an accident and killing someone. It may not happen every time… but.. it’s a definite outcome and should be expected.

          • lady_black

            Yeah… NO. We don’t let people bleed to death because they were driving while intoxicated. There may be penalties to pay, but we still treat them.

          • PJ4

            Likewise, we shouldn’t let babies be killed in the womb just because they are “unwanted”

          • Griffonn

            Some people are really into the idea that “unwanted” people should be got rid of.

            (They themselves are always the judges, never the judged.)

          • lady_black

            Unwanted people should never exist in the first place. That’s why I’m such a huge fan of contraception and sterilization, among other things. Like making sure a woman has access to everything she’ll need to welcome a new life. Try telling that to republicans. They don’t like ANY of that.

          • Basset_Hound

            I wasn’t particularly wanted by my mom. She told me so a time or two. So tell me that I should be dead, O Wonderful, Enlightened One…….Tell ME I should never have existed!!!!

          • lady_black

            I would never tell anyone they should be dead. There ARE ways of avoiding unwanted pregnancy, you know? Are you ready to start whining now about how I “deprived” all the “children” who never existed because I didn’t conceive them in the first place. Too bad. That’s not your business.

          • PJ4

            She never said that
            But it seems to me that since you’re out of you’re league here you need to start grasping at straws now
            Predictable

          • Basset_Hound

            “There ARE ways of avoiding unwanted pregnancy, you know?”

            I’m aware of that, thank you. My husband and I actually put a few of them into practice, but if I would have become pregnant before we were ready, I would NOT have made the child pay with his life.

            “Are you ready to start whining now about how I “deprived” all the “children” who never existed because I didn’t conceive them in the first place.”

            Ummmm….not really. Sorry to disappoint you.

          • Griffonn

            Unwanted people should never exist in the first place.

            Thank you for confirming how ugly pro-aborts are.

          • lady_black

            Yeah, not getting pregnant is so “ugly.” Count me in, in that case. Most women spend most of their reproductive lifetimes trying to avoid pregnancy, so I’ll have plenty of company. You’re free to have 20 kids if you want 20 kids. Don’t expect that of me. I’m not Federal Express, and I don’t make deliveries.

          • Rebecca Rose Downs

            So you have demonstrated many things, but also that if someone disagrees with you, you have no compassion or sympathy for them, got it. You say we’re free to have 20 kids, but then you mock those who consider it “ugly” not to be able to get pregnant. Yes, having unplanned pregnancies may be unpleasant, but so many women face the unpleasantness of never being able to conceive or not conceiving as many as they want or having miscarriages. Even cold hearted pro-choicers would have to feel something for that.

          • lady_black

            I’m going to disagree. I believe in making birth a more attractive option. I believe in contraception and sterilization on demand, and I mean ON DEMAND. People are not going to be able to sue doctors because they changed their minds. Changing one’s mind is not grounds for a lawsuit. People change their minds every day. We don’t clog the court with flakes who “change their mind.”

          • PJ4

            You will get no argument out of me on that one.

          • lady_black

            No. Actually when you consent to drive, you consent to following the rules of the road. When you drive at an excessive speed, you are, at the very east, endangering the property of others. You may also injure another person. Speeding isn’t a normal part of driving, leadfoot. But on to a more fitting analogy. If you get injured in a car accident, we don’t let you bleed to death because you consented to drive.

          • Ingrid Heimark

            No, you don’t let anyone bleed to death, in fact, you do what you can to save any lives possible

          • Rebecca Rose Downs

            Smh… I would think that you were old and mature enough to not resort
            to such assumptions and stereotypes… I’m not sure how long you’ve been
            on this site before, but I have written about assumptions and
            stereotypes of pro-lifers, including one which delves into my own personal sexual history.

            Birth control is a very good thing? Perhaps to some, but it also has a host of health problems. It also builds a culture of dependency and actually increases abortions. Are you familiar with risk compensation?

            While I may have made mistakes with my own sexual history, I don’t think I’m a hypocrite in saying that I have come to realize we are only meant to have sex with one person.

            And consent to sex is definitely consent to pregnancy, because sex creates babies… it’s not some grand mystery how babies are made. And I feel like it reflects an issue with our culture in some ways to equate it with consent to a date being consent to sex. Because that IS a problem…

          • lady_black

            Only meant to have sex with one person. Got it. And if that person dies, or the marriage doesn’t work out? Talk about naïve. That is NOT going to happen. For the most part, it never happened. Not even in my great-grandmother’s time. Sorry, but that’s bullpucky and I’m not buying it. That’s YOUR religious beliefs talking. It’s fine for you. Keep everyone else out of your delusions.

          • Rebecca Rose Downs

            Oh, here we go. Someone who disagrees with me so they think they can pick apart my argument and treat it/me like a piece of dirt and think I must be delusional. I’ve never experienced that before… It doesn’t make you any more mature though.

            I said meant with. I didn’t say it always happens. I never mentioned my religious beliefs anywhere in these comments.

            Forgive me for trying to help others based on my personal experiences. I’m delusional indeed…

          • lady_black

            You are delusional if you believe that people just won’t have sex. That attitude isn’t particularly helpful.

          • Ingrid Heimark

            She doesn’t say people shouldn’t have sex, but be aware of what is a possibility when they do

          • PJ4

            That’s not what she was implying
            Sex is great.
            But there are certain times in the month that a woman can avoid penis in vagina sex and still have a great ol time.
            For example PIV is not necessary for a woman to be able to ejaculate.

          • lady_black

            No penis is required PERIOD. I have an ass-kicking vibrator.

          • PJ4

            LOL…. to each her own on that front; personally I don’t need a vibrator.. but it’s funny you bring that up since in one of your posts to Ingrid you were screaming about how you “will not abstain” and that you didn’t get married to have to abstain.

          • lady_black

            What does masturbation have to do with abstinence? That’s sex with the person I love the most. Nobody needs a vibrator. But it will get the job done.

          • PJ4

            If you’re masterbating so often what do you need a man (or woman) for To me masterbation is something you do when you’re single
            I get more pleasure out of my partners

            I don’t need a vibe to “get the job done”

          • Basset_Hound

            Geez, somehow I managed to not have sex when my husband had to go to another state for a job. That lasted several weeks.

          • Rebecca Rose Downs

            When on Earth did I say I believed people just won’t have sex??

          • Basset_Hound

            That’s one of her favorite tactics.

          • lady_black

            What? Calling out bullsh*t? Yes, that is one of my favorite tactics.

          • Basset_Hound

            I’d change the wording a bit to “Dishing” out bullsh*t, rather than “calling”

          • lady_black

            Consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy, and sex isn’t the only means of fertilization. It might be the most common way, but not the only way. There’s also IVF, which is ALSO not consent to pregnancy.

          • PJ4

            I’ll take Ridiculous Stereotypes Perpetuated by Pro Aborts for $2000 Alex!

            Consent to pregnancy is consent to whatever else comes with it.

            The child did not ask to be conceived.

            And yes. Sex is great.
            Artificial birth control isn’t the only way to prevent a pregnancy.

          • lady_black

            “The child” didn’t ask to be born, either. In fact, it didn’t ask anything at any time.

          • Ingrid Heimark

            No, but as conceived, his interests are as important as anyone else fighting for their life

          • lady_black

            Then remove it and give it it’s shot at life.

          • Rebecca Rose Downs

            But do you think the fetus would ask for an excruciatingly painful death, especially when able to feel pain.

          • PJ4

            Pain is irrelevant
            Even the child doesn’t feel a thing, it’s not ok to kill him or her.

            You can sedate a person to numbness and then cut off the limbs one by one. That they cannot feel a thing doesn’t make it any less heinous

          • Rebecca Rose Downs

            Oh I agree. I’m just trying to appeal to humanity of the pro-choice crowd in any way that I can…

          • PJ4

            Unfortunately they don’t care.
            They most likely never will.
            They’re pro aborts which makes them inherently narcissistic and selfish

          • lady_black

            No, they are scientists. The structures needed to perceive pain are not all there and sufficiently developed prior to 28 weeks.

          • PJ4

            Yes, like these doctors
            http://www.doctorsonfetalpain.com

            However…pain is irrelevant

            Even if you had an anesthesia so you could not feel pain dismemberment by vacuum suction or needle is wrong

          • lady_black

            Try doing it honestly. The majority of abortions are done very early and there is no pain. the ones done later are done for the most tragic circumstances. And a fetus cannot feel pain until later in the third trimester.

          • PJ4

            Like I said, pain is irrelevant.
            Would it be ok if someone were to sedated you into numbness and then proceeded to cut you up limb from limb?
            I didn’t think so .

            And you’re wrong. Babies feel pain as early as week 20

          • lady_black

            Most doctors do not agree with that, nor do medical associations.

          • Rebecca Rose Downs

            Late-term abortions are supposed to be performed for the mother’s “health.” However, this can mean anything the doctor and mother decide it to mean. Like rock concerts for instance. Also, never mind when we decide an abortion is tragic or not, most late-term abortions are done for reasons NOT to really do with health.

            http://liveactionnews.org/why-do-women-get-late-term-abortions/

          • PJ4

            She can be taught!

          • Tullia_Ciceronis

            If consent to sex isn’t consent to pregnancy, then why is consent to sex consent to 18 years of mandatory child support for men? Why the double standard?

          • lady_black

            It’s not. There may never be a child, thus no child support. Or they may agree as a couple to relinquish a baby for adoption. You can’t adopt a fetus out, and only one person can gestate that fetus. Once there’s an actual child on earth, both parents will have to support it or relinquish it. Child support is the right of the child, not the right of the parents. The right of a child to support cannot be unilaterally voided by any action taken by either parent or both.

          • Tullia_Ciceronis

            Legally speaking, you cannot relinquish your parental rights unless someone else is willing to adopt the child. That means that the man cannot relinquish his parental rights unless a stepparent comes in and is willing to adopt the kid, which doesn’t always happen. If child support is the right of the children, why isn’t being carried to term the right of unborn children?

          • lady_black

            LOL. People aren’t going to stop having sex, Ingrid. You really think married people are going to abstain even if they plan NOT to have children? Not in THIS lifetime. You don’t get to interfere in other people’s marriages and families. If they do not want to be parents, then I heartily encourage them NOT to be parents. That doesn’t entail a lifetime of abstinence. Being an adult means you get to be an adult and make your OWN DECISIONS. I’m a big fan of contraception. I’m an even bigger fan of sterilization. The problem is that too many doctors think like you do, and insist that a woman be over a certain age, or have a certain number of children to have a tubal ligation. My doctor tried that routine with me, and I told him promptly where to get off at. I got my tubal ligation. Too many women are afraid to talk back to their doctors, so that’s the treatment they get. Paternalism.

          • Ingrid Heimark

            I agree, if people want to have sex, have sex. If they want to use contraception, be my guest. Want to sterilize, I’ll help pay. But don’t take a life because you couldn’t abstain

          • Rebecca Rose Downs

            Your argument maybe had some credibility to it until you had to throw in the last bit there about paternalism… Sigh…

          • lady_black

            Really??? What would YOU call it? I’d be happy to use that term in the future. It’s not female doctors who attempt to limit access to sterilization. What right exactly DOES a male doctor have to make age or childbearing requirements that aren’t lawful upon women seeking a tubal ligation? Of what concern is it to him if she bears twelve children or none? In truth, it’s none of his damn business.

          • PJ4

            Ok.. I’ll give you that.
            If a woman requests sterilization, she should get it.

            It could prevent a future abortion.

            But wait, are you saying that there are no female doctors who would attempt to limit access to sterilization?

          • lady_black

            There should be no doctors of any gender trying to limit access to sterilization. I agree it would prevent untold numbers of abortions. Male doctors with paternalistic attitudes far outnumber female doctors with paternalistic attitudes. I won’t say there are none. There are nuts in both genders.

          • PJ4

            agreed.

          • lady_black

            That’s what informed consent is for.

          • Basset_Hound

            Sometimes a woman who wants sterilization when she is in her mid 20’s changes her mind when she’s pushing 40, and realizes menopause is just around the corner. I’m just saying that may be one reason why doctors are reluctant to sterilize anyone younger than the mid 30’s. not making an argument either way.

          • PJ4

            very valid point

          • Basset_Hound

            Even with microsurgery, reversals are difficult, and very likely to fail. It can also result in a life threatening tubal pregnancy.

          • lady_black

            Reversals?? ROFL. Yeah I thought about that a time or two. Then I got my sanity back.

          • lady_black

            That’s why I would never actually attempt that. There is NOTHING important enough to put myself at that risk for.

          • lady_black

            It’s not valid. She needs to be sure, Too bad if she changes her mind. She can adopt, or hire a surrogate.

          • PJ4

            Such compassion

          • lady_black

            Yeah you’re right. I don’t have a whole lot of compassion for people who don’t think things through before acting. I had a tubal ligation in my 20s. Hearing your biological clock ticking is a pretty sh*tty excuse for having another baby. If you’re that much of a dithering idiot, you probably shouldn’t do anything permanent. Of course, that will severely limit your options. I had a tubal because I didn’t want any more children PERIOD.

          • PJ4

            I don’t have a whole lot of compassion for people who don’t think things through before acting.
            You mean like having a one night stand and being stuck with a pregnancy?

          • Griffonn

            “that’s difffferennnnt”

          • lady_black

            It’s much different.

          • Griffonn

            Well, sure. Because you have repeatedly made it clear that you reject the idea that ethics requires treating everyone fairly. You should be treated more than fairly, and everyone else should be treated less than fairly.

          • lady_black

            NO. It’s different because nobody is permanently pregnant. Whatever your decision, in nine months max you will no longer be pregnant. Sterilization should be considered permanent, like having a rhinoplasty. Once you go there, it’s done. They can try to reverse sterilization, or use IVF but there are no guarantees. Whatever you do, you’ll never be “good as new” again.

          • Griffonn

            So you have compassion on the woman who wants to kill her baby so that she isn’t inconvenienced by the consequences of her own stupidity, but none for the woman who thought she knew what she wanted but found that as she got older her feelings changed – and all the frivolous, stupid things (like the “right” to be promiscuous) are revealed to be irrelevant, while all those things that were presented as dumb and irrelevant turned out to be what life is all about.

            Or hadn’t you noticed how many feminists tend to end up alone, desperately pretending they meant it to happen that way?

          • PJ4

            Yes many of them do end up alone
            My husband left one for me :-)
            (He was with her for like 10 years; she was about 10 years his senior too)
            She’s all alone now and old
            No kids
            No man

            But she’s got her career (she’s very well off but can’t seem to keep a man for more than a few months now that she’s older and her looks have faded…wonder if she’ll move to Switzerland…just kidding)
            Still, I wish she’d stop calling my sister in law in tears about how much she misses him It’s sad

            It’s been several years now
            He’s moved on and now has the family she refused to give him

            Ah well

            Another pathetic feminazi ends up alone
            Hardly a headliner

          • lady_black

            Well since one is not “stuck” with a pregnancy, no. I mean like someone who wants a “nose job” (just as an example) because they have a huge nose. They go to all the trouble of seeing a plastic surgeon and picking out a new nose, and save up for the surgery. Then afterwards, they decide they wished they had their old nose back because it had character. Well too bad. You can’t travel back in time (though sometimes I wish like hell I could, it has nothing to do with the tubal ligation) and they can’t give you your old nose back. That’s the position someone is in when they get sterilized and “change their mind.” Too bad. You can attempt microsurgery, or use IVF or whatever. But whatever you do, you will NOT be the same as you were before. You need to be told in no uncertain terms, it should be considered permanent. Then if you go through with it, your decision is made, and you’re pretty much stuck with it.

          • lady_black

            “Changing your mind” is not a cause of action in a lawsuit, unless you were never told sterilization should be considered permanent. That never happens. It’s part of informed consent.

          • Ingrid Heimark

            I agree, sterilization should be available on demand

          • lady_black

            Yes, it absolutely should. It would cut down on untold numbers of abortions. Get to work.

          • PJ4
          • Basset_Hound

            Jerry Sandusky was an outstanding defensive coach. Thanks to him, Penn State enjoyed several winning seasons and bowl trips from the time he was hired in 1969. Numerous NFL players can credit their success to the skills they learned under his tutelage. So I guess we should overlook that he spent only 3% of his time molesting little boys, according to their “logic”, right Rebecca?

          • lady_black

            Molesting little boys is illegal. Just saying. As it is they let it go. And the governor of PA is in it up to his eyeballs.

          • Basset_Hound

            Molesting little boys harms them.
            Aborting unborn babies kills them.

        • PJ4
        • Kristiburtonbrown

          I’m not arguing that Planned Parenthood does nothing but abortions. However, they are the largest provider of abortions in the U.S. (hence the term abortion giant). They continue to perform more and more abortions (http://www.nationalrighttolifenews.org/news/2013/01/planned-parenthood-increases-number-of-abortions-rakes-in-nearly-1-2-billion-in-revenues/#.UwugcfZlDx4). And, 92% of pregnant women who go in to Planned Parenthood get abortions. (http://www.lifenews.com/2013/01/08/92-of-pregnant-women-at-planned-parenthood-get-abortions/) Those are facts. And they make Planned Parenthood an abortion giant, despite whatever else they may do…

          • lady_black

            Even if they provided 99% of all the abortions, they would still do far more sexual health and family planning services than abortions. Abortions are declining. Family planning services are rising. As I told another poster, the PP clinic in my city does ZERO abortions, and they never have done them. So I guess that means they’re busy providing other services. The PP clinic in my city is typical, in that they don’t provide any abortions.

          • PJ4
          • lady_black

            Like I said, post a citation, not an editorial. I will not accept editorials.

          • PJ4

            the editorials have citations in them.

            But i wouldn’t want you to leave your comfort zone.

          • lady_black

            Yeah. They link to another editorial on the same blog.

        • Basset_Hound

          One patient counts multiple times….over 90% of their income comes from providing abortions.

          • lady_black

            Zero percent of our local Planned Parenthood income comes from abortion. Like most clinics, they don’t do abortion care. I think that figure comes straight out of your hiney.

          • Rebecca Rose Downs

            Actually, the numbers come right out of their annual reports. There are groups analyzing the annual report, but that’s because they well, know how to analyze a report. And Planned Parenthood overall makes $170 million/over 50% of clinic income from abortion…

            http://www.lifenews.com/2013/12/19/planned-parenthood-tax-funding-up-77-while-it-makes-170-million-from-abortions/

            And sorry, I know you don’t like LifeNews, but it’s because you don’t understand what it is, a site with many different pro-life pieces from different sites.

          • lady_black

            50% is not 90%. Not when I went to school. If that’s changed, I apologize. That’s private pay, you know. Private pay is more lucrative by nature.

          • Rebecca Rose Downs

            I never said it was 90%… Over 50% is still a majority though and quite a bit.

    • Ingrid Heimark

      They perform almost 1 in 3 abortions, if that’s not an abortion giant, I don’t know what it

      • Rebecca Rose Downs

        It’s worth looking at the income they generate from abortion too…

        • belgianchic

          I’m not really sure what the point of this argument is…yeah, abortion clinics make money. No kidding. It’s a business. Dentists make money, teachers make money, because they have to make a living and put food on the table. Unfortunately we cant do everything for free.

          • Ingrid Heimark

            But only abortion clinics kill, the others actually fulfill a societal need

          • lady_black

            Tell that to Rick Perry.

          • PJ4

            Tell that to Indiana

          • lady_black

            Indiana doesn’t make federal rules. Too fricking bad for Indiana.

          • belgianchic

            I don’t know about that, I suppose the doctor that took my aunt off of life support (with our consent of course) killed her. Of course, the doctor makes money. The horror!

          • MamaBear

            Assuming of course that there was no hope for recovery for your aunt, there is a huge ethical difference between ending treatment for someone who is dying and actively killing a healthy unborn baby in a healthy mother just because it is inconvenient!
            And don’t start the life of the mother business with me as all legitimate pro-life organizations support that exception. Or rape or fetal deformity exceptions either as a number even make exceptions there. The majority of 56 million deaths of unborn children since Roe vs. Wade had no medical justification whatsoever, just plain old selfishness.

          • Ingrid Heimark

            You seem to miss the difference between artificially prolonging life and actively taking a new begun life

          • belgianchic

            Well of course there is a difference. However, not all ending of a life is murder, nor is it killing. There are gray areas.

          • Ingrid Heimark

            all intentional ending of a life is killing

          • belgianchic

            I disagree. We put our dog down recently. It was the best decision, although it was heartbreaking. We certainly did not ‘kill’ her. If somebody took a gun and shot her that would have been killing her. I realize dogs and humans are not the same, but most sane people would be appalled at shooting a dog, while not so much as having it put down.

          • Ingrid Heimark

            We just euthanized a cat because he had been shot earlier, he was my fostercat. Although it was the most merciful thing to do, it was killing, that is why mercy killing is a popular word that doesn’t hide the truth

          • belgianchic

            see, that’s very interesting because I wouldn’t call that killing.

          • Rebecca Rose Downs

            I understand where you’re coming from. But it is worth making the point about income to show how abortion is Planned Parenthood’s motivation, not necessarily or at least not solely to help women, but because it makes them money.

          • lady_black

            Planned Parenthood doesn’t tell women to have abortions. She makes that decision. How dumb do you think women are, anyway?

          • PJ4

            Well, let’s see… about as dumb as liberal pro aborts thing woman are for going into a CPC?
            There are Planned Parenthood nightmares.
            Women are told to abort by PP all the time.
            Stop the lies.

          • lady_black

            No they are not. They are told what their options are. That’s different.

          • PJ4

            Oh right.. tell that to Ayanna Byer, she would disagree with you.

            http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2282583/Woman-accuses-Planned-Parenthood-forcing-unanesthetized-abortion-botching-procedure.html

            Oh wait.. let me guess.. if it does’ further your agenda, you wont read it, right?

            I hope she sues them for everything they’ve got.
            Poor Tonya Reeve’s family only got 2 million from your church butchers

          • lady_black

            What do I care about the UK? What has THAT got to do with anything?

          • PJ4

            Omg
            Are you kidding?
            You really should read the article
            The incident happened in CO

            It just happened to make the news In the UK

            Good grief
            Now you’re just embarrassing yourself

          • lady_black

            Well what the hell is the matter with her? Why didn’t she get up and leave? Why did she go there in the first place? Not everyone is safe for anesthesia at every facility. My sister had to go out of state for her abortion because of issues with anesthesia. It was known in advance that she couldn’t have it because of a heart murmur. At any time before the procedure started, this lady was free to get up and leave. She was 40 years old, ffs… not a scared 17 year old. I’m so not impressed.

          • PJ4

            Victim blaming to cover up for PP
            Of course I’m not surprised

          • lady_black

            A 40 year old woman going for an abortion is NOBODY’S farking “victim.” Come up with a more sympathetic figure. At 40 she knew EXACTLY what she was doing. She’s old enough to be a grandmother.

          • Rebecca Rose Downs

            Okay, so I know that pro-choice people have different opinions from me and I disagree with them, but this is this one of the most despicable and biased forms of support for abortion and Planned Parenthood.

          • lady_black

            What do you think? Did they go kidnap her from her home and force an abortion on her? If she didn’t want an abortion, she leaves (or doesn’t go there in the first place). But once the procedure starts, it’s too late to start “performing.” You read one side of a story, and assume that’s the truth.

          • PJ4

            This is how you would have defended Gosnel if he didn’t get convicted The woman he killed was no teenager either

            Wow
            You seriously come across as a religious nut job defending her Church at all costs I hope Cecil is paying you…you’re a great (sadly mistaken, but great) PP apologist

          • lady_black

            In other words, I do not believe her story.

          • Rebecca Rose Downs

            Okay, and well so you should have just said that. And you don’t believe it because you’re beholden to Planned Parenthood first and foremost. Victim blaming/shaming indeed. I guess both sides can be accused of doing it too.

          • PJ4

            In other words if Gosnel was acquitted you would not have believed anyone’s accusation either
            In other word you refuse to have you faith shaken regardless of the evidence around you

          • MamaBear

            Read!
            She says they restrained her (they “limited” her freedom of movement). That is why battery and false imprisonment is included in her lawsuit.
            It also said they agreed to her conditions to use IV anesthesia, and were supposedly unable to start the IV. That is either laziness or incompetence when it is at what is supposed to be a “medical facility” that is supposed to be allowed to use anesthesia.
            Oh yeah! You didn’t read it happened in Colorado either.

          • lady_black

            They can’t start the IV? Guess what? You walk. Planned Parenthood is not a prison. Did they “restrain her” after the procedure was started? You can’t walk out in the middle, you know. Not in any surgery.

          • Ingrid Heimark

            But they perform them because it makes money, that’s why they close clinics that don’t provide abortions in Texas

          • lady_black

            Citation needed. They’re closing all kinds of clinics in Texas. It might have something to do with the Medicaid funds Governor Goodhair refused. Ya think???

          • Ingrid Heimark

            I actually assume they will concentrate resources on abortion clinics, like the clinics in northeast, where the new equipment went to abortion clinics and the others got stained chairs etc, according to a PP worker that told on the conditions

          • lady_black

            What PART of “Rick Perry won’t accept Medicaid funds (which do NOT pay for abortions) if they go to Planned Parenthood” don’t you understand? When you cut funding to other services, expect the only services that are paid for out of pocket to be the only ones provided.

          • PJ4

            What part of the Obama administration may withhold up to $4.3 billion in Medicaid funding for low income healthcare from Indiana if they do not change their mind about defunding Planned Parenthood do you not understand?

          • lady_black

            Yep. That federal money comes with strings attached. One of the strings is that the state doesn’t pick and choose your medical provider. The government is allowed to withhold funding to states that want to operate in defiance of federal rules. Their money, their rules!

          • PJ4

            So you make excuses for Obama but not Perry

            Of course you have a double standard
            That’s how liberals thrive

          • lady_black

            You bet I do. You apparently do not understand the difference between federal and state authority. States may do as they like with their own money. When they take federal money, they don’t have that privilege. What you have to understand is that many states take in more federal dollars than their taxes. Some pay more in taxes than they get. Therefore, federal money = federal rules. Federal agencies are under the administration. It’s the administration’s job to see that federal money is not being abused. Telling people on Medicaid they can’t go to Planned Parenthood is abuse.

          • PJ4
          • lady_black

            YEP. They wanted to not allow people to go to Planned Parenthood. Medicaid doesn’t pay for abortions. The administration said NO. You cannot bar a qualified provider from getting Medicaid payments, and you cannot tell people what doctor they can go to. ANY administration would say NO. That’s a violation of federal rules. So Governor Goodhair said keep the Medicaid payments. Now all Texans can suffer.

          • PJ4

            Do you really think that PP wouldn’t survive without federal funding?

          • lady_black

            No I don’t. That’s irrelevant though. Federal funding doesn’t pay for abortions. If you get federal funding (Medicaid) they will pay your doctor for your care. Why should they not pay Planned Parenthood for the pills, IUD, shot, testing, antibiotic, or whatever that you get there? Do you think because they’re Planned Parenthood, their doctor work for nothing?

          • PJ4

            Well I’ve already posted news articles from the LaTimes and CBS on the massive fraud committed by PP in several states You just refuse to read or believe anything negative about them

          • Ingrid Heimark

            They don’t suffer, Texas started their own project funding women’s care with their own money

          • lady_black

            LOL. Why of COURSE they did. And it’s an unmitigated disaster. Women are going to Mexico for the care they need. Or they just aren’t getting any care at all. Disgraceful!

          • Ingrid Heimark

            No, women are going to mexico for illegal abortions, not for care, and why bring this up if the medicaid weren’t covering aboritons?

          • lady_black

            Look I’m not going to argue with you about a federal regulation that has been in place since 1976. The Hyde Amendment is attached to every Medicaid funding bill since that time. Abortions are private pay, and they are NOT “illegal.” And yes indeed, they are going to Mexico (or other states) for care. Or just doing without. Rick Perry cannot make up for the 90% of Medicaid funding that comes from the federal government. And anyone who thinks he can is an idiot.

          • Rebecca Rose Downs

            You think he’s an idiot because he doesn’t subscribe to your pro-abortion worship… nevermind that Texas has bent over backwards to still provide abortion. Texans don’t want to pay towards those who provide abortions, so well they’re just idiots.

          • lady_black

            Federal monies cannot be used for abortions. They can be used for other services provided by Planned Parenthood. Are they defunding hospitals too? Abortions are done there.

          • PJ4

            I’ll argue with you!
            There’s actually 15 states that will cover it via Medicaid

            http://www.fundabortionnow.org/get-help/medicaid

            What was that you were saying about doing more research than the people on LAN?
            Uh huh

          • lady_black

            They can use their own money any way they want. They cannot use federal dollars for abortion. The state taxes belong to the state.

          • PJ4

            Citation needed please

          • PJ4

            Citation needed please
            You can’t just make a claim and not support it
            How did you get past your higher education like that?

          • DianaG2

            Now all Texas babies can live, and all Texas moms can be free of coercion.

            {Pro-aborts like lady-black are going to point out that moms will still find ways to kill their babies before birth anyway.}

          • disqus_kLchAqdTaP

            Among women who have aborted the suicide rate is Six times higher than those who have given birth. Abortion hurts women so much.

          • lady_black

            By the way, I have no interest in reading your editorial. Post a reliable citation or don’t bother.

          • PJ4

            Of course not.
            Anything that contradicts your beliefs is too dangerous for you to bother with.
            I understand that these articles intrude in your safety zone but that’s not really my problem.

          • RobertPFrancis

            They don’t tell them how to afford to keep their babies either.

          • lady_black

            Oh CERTAINLY they do. If you don’t have insurance they’ll help you get Medicaid. Once you apply for Medicaid, you’re in the system and will get all the benefits you’re entitled to. They aren’t social workers, they are medical providers.

          • Rebecca Rose Downs

            I really do think you have such a rosy image of Planned Parenthood. It’s a shame. They often “counsel” women into having that abortion while glossing over the other options because it’s not what makes them money. And have you ever been pregnant? Women are very emotional and vulnerable during pregnancy and very easy to take advantage. Planned Parenthood and those who try to get their friend, girlfriend, daughter, whomever it is into having an abortion because it’s more convenient for *them* know this.

          • lady_black

            How do they make money on something they don’t do?

          • Rebecca Rose Downs

            What??

          • lady_black

            My local Planned Parenthood doesn’t offer abortions. Not even RU-486. They refer to a clinic that is not Planned Parenthood. Where’s the money?

          • Rebecca Rose Downs

            Well somebod/somewhere affiliated with Planned Parenthood is benefiting and getting money from that abortion. .

          • MamaBear

            Planned Parenthood definitely has abortion clinics in my state!

          • lady_black

            So you expect the doctors to work for free?

          • Rebecca Rose Downs

            I never said that. Again, you misinterpret a response of mine I already made because you don’t like it and you think you are right in your woeful ignorance and immaturity. Abortionists are performing a “service” that (rightfully) has a lot of stigma attached to it and make a pretty penny killing babies and often hurting the mothers in the process.

          • lady_black

            All doctors make a pretty penny. Some more than others. The real money is in the birth industry.

          • DianaG2

            But, babies aren’t getting killed in the birth industry. And, if you are indigent, the federal government foots the entire bill.

            What’s your point?

          • DianaG2

            International Planned Parenthood Federation.

          • DianaG2

            Dumb enough to have over a million abortions per year. We don’t know how many women those abortions are distributed among.

            But, we do know that (as you pointed out yourself) only one third of women have had abortions, so . . .

          • belgianchic

            Well, yeah. I’m a pediatrician, because its my job. As much as I love healing kids, and i do, it’s my passion, I can’t do it for free because I have a family to provide for. It’s worth pointing out that dentists, pediatricians, teachers do it not solely to help people but because it makes them money.

          • MamaBear

            You haven’t looked at teacher salaries in most states lately, have you?

          • Elizabeth Volkmer

            Dentists aren’t hired to kill unborn babies – innocent unborn babies who have committed no crimes.

        • lady_black

          Do you work for free? I don’t. If you want to talk about income, take a look at the birth industry. That’s where the money is. Let’s see… do an abortion for $500, or delivery a baby for $10K. Decisions, decisions.

          • Ingrid Heimark

            Again, healing for money is ok, killing for money is not

          • lady_black

            My mom was healed by an abortion. I don’t really care what you think. It’s not your mom.

          • Ingrid Heimark

            AGAIN, that was self-defense, and not killing because she didn’t want a baby

          • lady_black

            It was an abortion. Deal with it. I have.

          • Ingrid Heimark

            I don’t care how you define, it, noone here would deny a life-saving abortion, and no pro-lifer here would accept abortion in other cases

          • Mindy Robinson

            You are sick.

          • lady_black

            Translation: I’m right and you have nothing to counter my argument.

    • LoveTheLeast8

      When you do more abortions than anyone else in the country by a long-shot then you are a giant of that industry. If anyone is an abortion giant in the US it is Planned Parenthood.

    • belgianchic

      Amen!

    • Mary Lee

      Oh pleeeease

      • lady_black

        He’s right. Most Planned Parenthood clinics do not do abortions. The one in my city doesn’t do abortions and never has. They’re always busy, though. So they must be doing something else.

        • Mary Lee

          Oh, okay. Keep drinking that kool aid and defending the Church of Planned Parenthood.

          • PJ4

            She offers up tithes there too

          • lady_black

            Can you prove that they DO perform abortions? I can prove they don’t. You have a problem with birth control and STD testing and treatment? You want to close down a health clinic that doesn’t do abortions and never has?

          • PJ4
          • lady_black

            You don’t seriously consider a blog to be a reputable source, do you?

          • PJ4

            Well why are you here debating on such an unreliable source

            Feel free to google this stuff yourself

            Lifenews is as much a blog as RH Jezebel and mother jones which
            Most of your pro abort cohorts depend solely on

          • lady_black

            I can debate on a blog without citing one as an authority.

          • PJ4

            You can also use key words to google the actual citation found in the news source/blog

          • lady_black

            Yeah, they link to themselves. LOL. Nice try.

          • PJ4

            That’s what’s google is for
            Wow
            You don’t know how to do research do you?

          • lady_black

            Actually I do more research than this site does.

          • PJ4

            Yet you remain so ignorant and misinformed
            This is why all of us doubt your credentials
            This is why you come across as nothing but a fraud with a cursory knowledge of how some things might work You’ve been proven wrong by several of us time and time again
            Ah well you are at the very least entertaining and at the most, a colossal waste of time

          • lady_black

            No. I don’t care what you “doubt.” My state says I’m a nurse. That makes me a nurse.

          • PJ4

            Oh sure
            You’re state says so

            Ever seen the movie Nurse Betty
            You should look it up if you haven’t
            It’s your nickname after all

    • Basset_Hound

      Except that they actually ARE America’s leading abortion provider. According to their annual report, during fiscal 2012-2013 PP:

      Performed over 327,000 abortions versus…..

      seeing less than 20,000 for prenatal care (down 32% from last year, adn 52% since 2009) and 3,000 adoption referrals.

      Cancer screenings made up a whopping 14% of their business, and that amount had decreased since last year.

      • lady_black

        So Planned Parenthood does do prenatal care (or refer people to obstetricians). And given that adoption is wildly unpopular, I’m surprised they even made 3000 adoption referrals. Nevertheless, Planned Parenthood will refer ANYONE to an adoption agency if that’s their desire. They don’t sort referrals. They just make referrals that are requested.

    • Mindy Robinson

      It’s baffling if you are stupid enough to think PP is planned parenthood and not a giant infant butcher facility.

    • sandraleesmith46

      :Planned Parenthood is an abortion mill on a par with a slaughter house; it doesn’t provide any other service in its facilities; it RARELY refers for adoption; all other services are not offered. They MIGHT tell you where you can go to access other services, IF the person at the desk has a clue. It’s not about “family” in any way.

  • Rebecca Rose Downs

    It’s not so much hard to understand as it is rather odd that the organization selling said baby clothes specializes in aborting babies before they even have the chance to be born.

    • lady_black

      They specialize in family planning services. In my state Planned Parenthood doesn’t do abortions. They’ll give you contraceptives and STD testing and treatment. For men too.

      • PJ4

        That you can get at any county clinic

        • lady_black

          Don’t people get to pick their OWN doctor. I’d like to see you try and order me to a state clinic. You wouldn’t like the reception you get.

          • PJ4

            Actually under Obamacare, you cannot pick your own doctor

          • lady_black

            I do. And yes, you CAN pick your own doctor.

          • PJ4

            No, actually you cannot.

            Obama kinda lied about that… among other things…

            http://washingtonexaminer.com/doctors-boycotting-californias-obamacare-exchange/article/2540272

            My doctor does not participate.

          • lady_black

            For me nothing changes. So I guess that isn’t true. You always had to go to someone in your insurer’s network. So pick another doctor who participates with your insurer. This is NOT NEW.

          • PJ4

            Wait.. didn’t you just say people get to chose who their doctor is???
            Well.. which is it?

          • lady_black

            No. Due to your insurance company. There is no such monolith called “Obamacare.” It mostly depends on private insurers. You depend on private insurers, and you get private insurer problems. Like they might not keep your doctor in their network. You can still go to him/her. Nobody’s going to stop you. But you’ll be responsible for any costs above what your insurer pays out of network providers. Believe it or not, I’ve run into this problem multiple times before “Obamacare” was a gleam in Obama’s eye. You need surgery. You go to a surgeon in your network. Lo and behold, the anesthesiologist is out of network and you get stuck with most of his bill. Not like you ever had any choice about that in the first place. The hospital makes those provisions. It’s a drag, but it happens with private insurers. Never happens with Medicare!

          • Mindy Robinson

            Do yourself a favor and the rest of us, read obamadeath, understand what it contains , understand it’s impact, understand it’s regs. Yes, there is a monolith but it’s called obamadeath. You speak of that which you have no knowledge of, completely unconcerned with the harmful impact of obamadeath.

          • Shan

            “This is NOT NEW.”

            Exactly. I just got a notice from my optometrist that they’re no longer going to participate in the health plan my children are on through their dad’s insurance. So now I have to find them a new one. Again, since this isn’t the first time this has happened.

          • lady_black

            Me either. I’ve struggled through dealing with private insurers most of my life. You can go to a surgeon who’s in network, arrange surgery at an in-network hospital or surgery center, then lo and behold, the anesthesiologist is out of network, and you get stuck paying most of his bill. This wouldn’t happen if we had a public option. It’s all a big scam.

          • Mindy Robinson

            You don’t get a public option with obamadeath.

          • Mindy Robinson

            So as long as you haven’t been hurt by it , it’s ok.

      • Mindy Robinson

        That would be because their funding for butchering babies was cut off , the state prevents them from butchering infants or they send their victims to an outsourced butcher.

        • lady_black

          Their funding for abortion is private pay. But most clinics don’t do abortions.

  • belgianchic

    It’s not if you think about it….pretty big if though hahaha tough crowd!

  • lady_black

    “Killing children” no. Ending a pregnancy, yes.

    • Rebecca Rose Downs

      Well what do you think happens when a pregnancy is ended?

  • RobertPFrancis

    What is the blue heart symbolize? Red symbolizes life, then does blue symbolize death, a cold dead heart? And the blue heart outlined in black? Looks like symbology for snuffing out life and leaving a cold dead heart behind. Cold hearted? Not a single thing about this product makes any sense. Oh wait I do get it, since your baby lived and they couldn’t make money from its death, this is a way they can re-coup their financial loss? A way for them to symbolically place a cold dead heart on your baby anyways?

    • Diane Miller Sellers

      Oooo…that is macabre…

  • lady_black

    Yes, there are multiple charges for the same service at the hospital. Nothing “creative” about that. You have to pay for supplies, medications, time, etc. For that matter, there are multiple charges for the same service when you get your car fixed, or have contracting work done. That doesn’t change the fact that most Planned Parenthood clinics don’t even do abortions.

  • lady_black

    Exactly. One doesn’t not have a tubal ligation because someone else wants one. I would have told him to get a vasectomy if he was so concerned. Both partners should understand the ramifications of sterilization. I wouldn’t go so far to say “agreement.” They don’t have to “agree.” If they don’t like it, get a divorce. The same goes with a refusal to be sterilized. If they don’t like it, tough. No one, not even a spouse should have veto power over the other person’s body.

  • lady_black

    They make referrals for mammograms. Like your family practitioner, or OB/GYN does. Thus they are a source for mammograms. They are NOT radiologists. Neither is your family doctor, or your OB/GYN. Who CARES if they don’t actually perform the mammogram?

    • Rebecca Rose Downs

      Everyone should care when the organization and President Obama deceive the American public and make it sound like they actually perform mammograms…

  • lady_black

    Bull.

    • MamaBear

      She has a lawsuit going. She will need to convince a judge.
      Meanwhile, you know everything about it, even though you didn’t even know it was Colorado instead of UK!
      Did you ever read the article?

  • Basset_Hound

    “I have known a few who didn’t wait that long to regret it.” Oh yeah. Like a woman who had been divorced, and who later wanted a child with her new husband. Then there’s a woman I can’t get out of my mind, even though I never knew her personally. She had two adorable little boys, and thought her family was complete. Both were in the day care center in the Murrah building on April 19, 1995, right near the front side……

  • lady_black

    It must be nice inside your privileged bubble. For thousands of women, PP is the only medical care they get.

    • MamaBear

      Yes, I’ve lived in a privileged bubble for years where most of my students were on free lunches and most had Medicaid for their “insurance.” I also taught as needed in my district’s homebound program which put me directly in the homes. And before that, I taught on a Native American reservation. You want to see poverty and substandard (government provided) health care? Go to a reservation! When my husband was in college (GI Bill) we lived in a low-income neighborhood without any health insurance ourselves for several years.
      Oh yeah, I have spent my life in a privileged bubble. One where I have been blessed to be welcomed in dirt-floor adobe homes and tiny cramped rundown apartments. To accept fry bread from a kitchen the health department would certainly condemn. To be hugged by children who are unbathed because they don’t have running water.
      For a little while, my privileged bubble included being poor, a lesson I never forgot, although at least I knew throughout it that for us it was temporary. For most of my career, my privileged bubble has been working with the children of the poor. A privilege I treasure more than any wealth.
      By the way, PP set up a clinic in my community. Didn’t stay. Most our local doctors already accepted Medicaid anyway. And people went where they felt the doctors cared.

  • LastMomStanding

    Amen!

  • LastMomStanding

    Instead of “Care” it should say “Dare….to survive!”.

  • Mindy Robinson

    This is so sick it’s beyond belief. Murders , torturers of infants selling baby clothes.

  • Mindy Robinson

    Butchers of infants no matter what percent they butcher.

  • Mindy Robinson

    The butchers of infants selling baby clothes, that is what is hard to understand, it’s sick.

  • Jody

    As usual, their audacity is mind staggering.

  • e_i_l_e_e_n

    It is said that we live in the age of irony…. Certainly, when a vile group like Planned Parenthood will pull such a stunt as claiming to ‘care, no matter what..’ you know you’re listening to double speak, at best. How much focus group testing went into that motto? Should be ‘careless? We’ll destroy your baby, no matter what’…

  • Karen Lynn

    LOL at the people who say that It makes sense because Planned Parenthood doesn’t “only” do abortions. I hope you are all joking. So the slogan of “care, no matter what” makes sense because they only dismember babies SOME of the time. Oh stop, you sillies! Laugh riot!!