baby fetus

BREAKING: Marlise Munoz removed from life support

20-weeks-human-fetus
Human fetus at 20-weeks gestation.

The battle for the life of Marlise Munoz’s unborn child is finally over. Today, the brain dead pregnant mother was removed from life support, effectively killing her 22.5-week-old unborn baby.

A Fort Worth, Texas hospital has removed a pregnant, brain-dead woman from life support after agreeing to comply with a judge’s order, her lawyers say.

“Our client, Erick Munoz, has authorized us to give notice that today, at approximately 11:30 a.m. central time, in accordance with the order of the 96th District Court of Tarrant County, Texas, issued Friday, January 24, 2014, Marlise Munoz’s body was disconnected from ‘life support’ and released to Mr. Munoz.,” Heather King and Jessica Janicek said in a statement. “The Munoz and Machado families will now proceed with the somber task of laying Marlise Munoz’s body to rest, and grieving over the great loss that has been suffered. May Marlise Munoz finally rest in peace, and her family find the strength to complete what has been an unbearably long and arduous journey.”

The hospital agreed to remove Munoz from life support after a judge ruled that the hospital was misinterpreting state law and that it must honor the family’s wishes. Erick Munoz, Marlise’s husband and the father of her unborn baby, said that this is what she would have wanted. At just short of 23 weeks of pregnancy, the family only needed to wait another week to attempt to save the baby’s life: doctors had originally planned to assess the baby’s viability at 24 weeks and potentially perform a c-section. But, as Jill Stanek points out, the family very disturbingly admitted that they had no concern for the child that Munoz was carrying.

This story was always a tragedy from the beginning, but now, it has become even more so. Instead of losing one beloved family member, the Munoz family has now lost two. It’s difficult to see how throwing away the life of a baby can somehow make the loss of that baby’s mother any easier to bear.

  • Holly

    Sickening…I am in tears, this world will never be right until we start protecting the lives of those who are unable to protect themselves.

    • Corinn

      Isn’t that the truth. We seem to be more concerned with protecting the deaths of those unable to speak for themselves.

      • 3cyndi23

        Marlise wasn’t able to speak for herself and her baby. Her husband did a great job speaking for her. What strength, especially with so many people trying to crucify him!!!!

        The autopsy will tell….. of course, tho, he does NOT have to slap it in the media’s face to shut a bunch of people up!!!!

  • Ashley

    So disgusting and sick. At least that baby is now home in the loving arms of Jesus.

  • Debbie Lynne Williams

    Sadness all around. My heart aches.

  • michelle

    i read in the news that the baby wouldnt have survived.because of the amount.of time it was deprived oxygen from when the mother initially died. and that the baby continued to form but not properly. it had no gender. i think thats what helped the judge decide to end life support. it is sad though. tragic that both had to die. if it were me i would want to stay on life support to save my baby. :(

    • Corinn

      Drs are notoriously wrong in predicting deformities, especially when the family is pressuring them to give them a reason to let their loved one go. I would not have based any decision based on that sonogram. I am sure most women would have been like you and wanted to stay on life support– not sure her wishes were expressed while she was pregnant. I find it hard to believe any family would have done this to their child/grandchild.

    • kelsey

      You have a gender from the moment you are conceived, its in your DNA. You can tell the gender as early as 16 weeks. “It” was a he or a she. I agree it is tragic

    • KWedel

      The doctors never made any statements on the baby’s prognosis. The lawyers who think they know more than doctors made that claim. They couldn’t determine the sex of the baby because the legs were in the way. My sister had that with all 4 of her pregnancies. With her last child they suggested she abort because judging by the ultrasound they thought the baby had trisomy 13. She refused and delivered a perfectly typical and healthy baby. Sounds as the the lawyers twisted the facts and
      instead of saying the legs were in the way they said the legs were deformed. The baby was fully formed when the woman was found. You don’t magically get deformed from lack of oxygen. The lawyers put forth the worst case scenario to convince the judge that the baby should not be born. Pretty offensive. My six year old daughter has Down syndrome and autism. So happy they didn’t get to decide her worth.

      • lady_black

        Wishful thinking.

      • Rachel B

        Of course the lawyers know more than the doctors. According to your flawed logic, everybody does!

        And just because you CHOSE to have a disabled child, doesn’t mean you get to impose your choice on others. Sometimes letting go is a much more merciful choice that holding on.

        • KWedel

          Wow you are sick. Thank you for proving what heartless creatures pro-aborts are.

      • heartnurse

        I am so glad that your sister’s baby was ok and that she chose not to abort. My daughter’s playmate as a child had Down’s Syndrome and she is so funny and sweet, they had the greatest times. She will still run up and hug us when we see her in the store. She is in her mid 40’s now I think or maybe even late 40’s. Still going strong.

    • heartnurse

      Michelle If the baby did not have a gender or the presence of deformities, that is more indicative of a genetic disorder that would have been present prior to this time of gestation. It would not occur because of lack of oxygen. Lack of oxygen could cause mental retardation in the child. The severity of the mental retardation would not have been known until after the baby was born. It may have visible signs at birth or the delay or retardation could be seen as the child grows. Personally, I have seen some kids who were never expected to walk or talk (cerebral palsy) do just that because of the love and support they received from their parents. I would have liked to seen this baby born because God works miracles in so many lives. But it was not up to me. Thank you for your post here.

  • CARMEN QUINONES

    ……………………savages!!!!!

  • k1023

    The reality is we have no idea if the baby would have been okay or not until it would have been born, and now it will never have the chance. The dad let his fear of the baby being damaged lead him to the act of murder. The mother was without oxygen, but the baby might have been okay. We just don’t know, no matter how doctors like to think they know everything.

    I was told one of my kids certainly had downs after complex measurements and multiple tests, but she was born fine. She was also 2/3 the weight the scan said she would be, and this was after many measurements of bone lengths, distance between eyes, and so on where they told me they were certain of their results.

    Gender can be mistaken on these scans too. A few years ago, a lady I met from the town over told me how distraught she was that the doctors had told her for sure her baby would be a boy and she bought all the clothes and painted the room and it turned out to be a girl. I had heard many times of it being the other way around, a baby expected to be a girl found to have a surprise, but she was proof that those fuzzy pictures of sound waves just aren’t all they are cracked up to be. Too miss something as clear as male parts, just shows you that you can not trust these things.

    • Erin Miller

      Murder? You’ve got to be kidding.

    • Rachel B

      Right, out of millions & millions of times the procedure was accurate, you personally knowing the one time it goes wrong sure does trump that!

      Do you ever look before you leap when you’re jumping to hasty conclusions?

      And calling the father a murderer? You are the one sick in the head!

  • Paul E. Morris MA-S, MST, EMT

    How the hell does anyone REALLY know what another person ” Would want ?” It is just an excuse for the other person to further their own Agenda… If the Baby continues to form, and develop… We must not interrupt Heavenly Father’s Plan… So tired of leftist liberal antichrist folks determining what another person’ wishes are, and telling Heavenly Father what the hell He is supposed to do… What pomposity !!! What misguided arogance… We need strong followers of our Father in Heaven, and His begotten Son our Savior Jesus Christ to advocate for the unborn… To be their loud-n-clear Voices…

    • KWedel

      While growing up my mother always told me and my siblings that she did not ever want to be kept alive by machines. 10 years ago we had to make a decision wether or not to have her intubated. We struggled with the decision. I asked the doctor what he would do. He said they ethically he did not want to say but did say he would not want to live breathing through a tube. When it came down to it we decided that we could not let her die. When I went to the hospital the next day she was sitting up in bed completely awake and happy. When we asked her what she thought about out decision she said she was happy. She said she was not ready to leave her grandchildren. Six months later we were called back up there again. This time her heart was failing and there was almost zero chance of her surviving. They were talking about cracking her chest open to massage her heart. We had to let her go. It would have only been prolonging the inevitable. The was the hardest thing I ever had to do. After her funeral a friend that worked at the hospital told me that she checked my mom’s chart and my mom had decided that she did not want a DNR order. After her whole life adamantly saying she wouldn’t want to,be on machines when facing the possibility of death she chose life saving measures. So no not only do we not know what others want we really don’t even know what we want. I ma angry at the doctors for making us go through that. It was in her chart and they never should have asked us. I am not sorry about the final decision because I felt that what they were talking about was too extrem and she was going to die anyway. Am so grateful that we had those six months that those machines gave us.

      • heartnurse

        What a fantastic story! I am so glad you had that extra time with your mother. That happened very similarly with my mother-n-law. What a blessing to spend that extra time with her. I am sorry for the loss of your mother though.

    • lady_black

      She was herself a health care professional who told her husband and family. That’s good enough for me! Being a healthcare professional myself, and having seen what results from what was being done to Marlise Munoz up close and personal, I’m inclined to believe her husband and parents. There is NO religion on earth… NONE… that require gestation to the point of death AND BEYOND. Sorry, but that’s just sick. And cruel beyond my comprehension. The fact that you find it acceptable is disturbing.

  • heartnurse

    The “life support” machines don’t necessarily work like this and they are not meant to sustain two lives for very long. I came across the same thing in my practice before. The female body is tremendous because it goes through all of these changes in order to provide for the growth of another human being during 9 months but it places a lot of stress on the body. That is even when the body is functioning normally under better more optimal conditions. Proper nutrition, lack of outside toxins, activity, and optimal oxygenation of the body tissues help to promote the birth of a healthy viable newborn. When one or two or all of these things are devoid, then many problems may arise. Even with IV nutrition, outside oxygenation support, the body that is dead begins breaking down tissues because artificial means do not equal God’s design. Life support can only be used so long before the tissues die, organs fail, waste backs up causing a toxic environment for the baby. While on life support the mother could experience internal bleeding or what we call a clot shower in which blood clots form all over in her body. If the baby is viable when the mother’s death occurs, has proper resuscitation immediately upon death, or is close to viability, then yeah, I think the baby could be incubated and saved. But I read this is not the case. 1 week or maybe 2 and that is pushing it and if the mother had no other injuries but on bedrest and in this situation she was at high risk for many types of infection as well. That baby was floating in a cess pool. In my situation the baby died before it could reach viability and we mourned the death of that baby as I will mourn for this one. Please do not decide to judge the father in this case. I can’t imagine if I were in his shoes. We do not know the whole situation and every medical lab, ultrasound, or her condition. However this was supposed to go or whatever God’s plan was for this tragedy will be revealed in His time. We need to love this family and support them in their time of loss. We know the baby is with his Lord now, safe and sound, happy and loved. I do not support abortion or causing a baby’s death in any way but I can show the same mercy and grace to the father, judge, and family in the same way God showed His mercy and grace to me.

    • 3cyndi23

      Beautifully said, Heartnurse. These other comments, filled with hate and anger, sicken me. We, the general population, have certainly not seen the labs, studies, EEG that the persons directly related with this nightmare have seen. Judging, when you have no authority to judge!!

      I used to work in a high risk OB office and am a registered nurse. I have seen some awful deformities. Even from what we have learned in this case, this baby had hydrocephalus – nobody is talking about that in this thread – and something major wrong with it’s heart, probably from its hypoxia back in November, during the critical first trimester, when it’s mother had died. Cesspool is exactly right.

      This poor lady/wife/mom was probably GROSSLY swollen, discolored, and rigor mortis had even set in. I think THIS is horrible. Could you imagine having to sit by your DEAD wife’s side, day after day, as she continues to bloat from the gases expelled from the dead/dying cells in her body? She was rotting. Organs were shutting down.I am sure that hospital room did smell like decay! “Not a pretty site!” I feel sorry for the nurses that were assigned to ‘care’ for her in that ICU. I wouldn’t have been able to do it!

      Please, let this man and her parents/grandparents now have a respectful and dignified funeral for this deceased woman/mom/daughter/wife! These bashing comments (and protesters outside the hospital I heard???) are nauseating!

      • Lala

        Awful deformities? My son has an “awful brain malformation” and is a beautiful and amazing little boy. He has taught me more about life than everyone I know combined.

        • heartnurse

          I think that is an inspiring story. I would love to hear more about your little boy. I have worked with special needs children before and loved every minute of it. Since I work with adults now, I don’t get to see many kids.

        • 3cyndi23

          I have seen awful deformities, like I said. Yes, AWFUL. The co-joined twins with 2 arms and legs out to the sides, and 2 arms and legs out the back of ONE TRUNK. The 2 faces were smooshed together – ear on each side (uneven) and 2 ears on the back of one head. Cyclops – 3rd eye. Yes, ****I****** have SEEN some awful deformities.

      • KWedel

        You do know that the family stated publicly that they did not care about the baby. They made it perfectly clear that the baby was not a concern to them. They didn’t even mention the baby in their final statement after she was removed from life support. This family does not deserve anything but condemnation.

        • Erin Miller

          “Lord, forgive us as we forgive others.” In other words: may the Lord forgive you as you have forgiven the family.

          • KWedel

            Last I checked I haven’t killed any children. I have done nothing that requires forgiveness. So no problem there.

          • Timmehh

            Really? You are the one person in this world who needs no forgiveness? All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

          • lady_black

            Better stop thumping that Bible of yours for a minute, actually open it up and look inside. You have a BIG PROBLEM. What was it your Jesus said about removing the beam from your own eye, that you may see clearly to remove the speck from the eye of your brother? “I like your Christ. But not your Christians. They are so unlike Christ.” – Ghandi

          • KWedel

            Too bad I don’t even own a bible. My feeling had absolutely nothing to do with religion. They killed a baby without giving her a chance. Nicole Munoz died a slow painful death of suffocation at the request of her father. I wish him the same. And mind your own business. So stop spouting your mouth off about something you know nothing about.

          • lady_black

            I know more than YOU know. And all my compassion is with the family. May they find peace and healing.

        • Rachel B

          Well, I sure hope all you condemning makes you feel good about yourself.

          Wait, no I don’t.

          • KWedel

            I couldn’t possibly give a damn what you think.

          • Rachel B

            Well, you should. I’m awesome!
            As opposed to the sad, angry, bitter painfully arrogant person you are!
            May your 6 year old with Downs & autism have more brains & heart than you!

        • lady_black

          They wanted to bury their wife and daughter. Quite a reasonable request. She was DEAD. This is not “life support.” It was cruel mechanical ventilation of a corpse. Things do not always work out the way we wish they did. This is one of those situations.

          • KWedel

            When did you get your medical degree. Tell me more about how you know so much about her condition when the doctors never made any statements.

          • lady_black

            The medical records speak for themselves. I’ve been a nurse for 27 years now. I know far more than I *wish* I knew about what happens in situations like this, where a brain-dead “patient” is kept alive on a ventilator. I’ve seen it up close and personal. The lawyers representing the hospital agreed that Mrs. Munoz had been dead since November, and that the fetus wasn’t viable. There was NO contention made by the hospital that it’s OWN medical records were inaccurate.

          • KWedel

            Well the Nicole was killed so I guess we will never know if she would have lived or not. Deadbeat ” Daddy” made sure of that.

      • KWedel

        Also they were not “protesters”. They were people peacefully praying for the fate of the baby. The baby that the family publicly said they did not care about.

      • Tullia_Ciceronis

        So ableist beliefs about quality of life are all you’ve got? Please, take your ableist bigotry about who deserves to be born somewhere else…

        • 3cyndi23

          The mom was dead and decaying. The baby floating in the breaking down old amniotic liquid and was decaying, also, in the fluid. Just wait, I am sure the family is going to publicly release the mom and baby’s autopsy report to get people off his butt. It is not about quality of ‘life’ because there is NONE. As soon as the air was stopped being forced into the mothers lungs to squeeze her heart, thereby pushing blood out of it, her heart was no longer making any sounds.

          Why didn’t you guys stand outside that abortion clinic and save my grandbaby? Oh, that’s right, you were outside the hospital fighting for a dead baby in a dead woman.

          • Tullia_Ciceronis

            According to the doctors the baby still had a heartbeat and was still growing. Babies have been born before after gestating inside brain-dead women on life support. Get your facts straight.

          • Tullia_Ciceronis

            According to the doctors, the baby was still growing and had a heartbeat. Dead things don’t do that. Also, babies have been born perfectly healthy after gestating inside a brain-dead mother on life support for several months. Get your facts right.

          • lady_black

            I’m going to go ahead and assume that the family was on board for this, or that the woman had consented to it. I realize consent may be a difficult concept for you. But it makes all the difference in the world.

          • Tullia_Ciceronis

            The baby did not consent to die. The family said that they weren’t concerned at all whether or not the woman wanted the baby to be born.

          • lady_black

            The fetus is incapable of giving consent. That is a meaningless statement.

          • Tullia_Ciceronis

            So are infants and young children. Yet it is illegal to deny lifesaving medical treatment to a minor child unless that child is terminally ill or permanently unconscious.

          • 3cyndi23

            You get your facts straight! This statement is wrong, Tullia

        • 3cyndi23

          Quality of life is not an issue, as there is NO ‘life’ in the hospital room. And, if mom was an organ donor to someday save someone else’s life, the transplant organization is going to give the ok as not meeting criteria, as it is ruined from having been dead so long.

          • Caleb Van Der Weide

            I wonder how the babies heart was beating if it was dead? Do dead things grow? If I killed someone on the street and saved two others with the organs would that justify the killing? No; the ends cannot justify the means. Saving two others would do nothing to justify the murder of the first. Murdering a undoubtedly living child is not justified by whatever reason you come up with. As C.S. Lewis said: “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult.”

      • Amber Redmer

        and again — brain dead mom gives birth at 27 wk via cesarean – declared brain dead at 15 wks – http://guardianlv.com/2014/01/baby-born-from-brain-dead-mother-confirm-texas-dilemma-video/

        • 3cyndi23

          Different scenario to look at. Sounds like this woman had a WITNESSED stroke, immediately (‘rushed’) got stroke treatment. Obviously this woman was not lying dead on the kitchen floor in the middle of the night for 30-60 minutes, like Marlise! Obviously? Because they were able to save organs, too. That means they did not die from anoxia.

          EVERY SINGLE CASE IS DIFFERENT. Get back out to the abortion clinics Amber. Maybe you can save a breathing & brain active pregnant mom’s baby?

        • heartnurse

          Thank you for posting this Amber. It is great to see this type of situation turn out well. Thank you for supporting life.

      • lady_black

        I have cared for a brain-dead “patient” who was being maintained on a ventilator. It was awful. The body is cold and stiff, with tissues breaking down all over the place. The stench of death. It was the only time in my career that giving care has ever been revolting to me. The memory of it will haunt me for the rest of my life. My wishes and hopes for peace and healing are for the staff who surely must have been traumatized (if they have any feelings at all) and most of all for the family for being forced to watch this outrage play out while the body of their wife/daughter decayed in front of them. This can never happen again.

        • Tullia_Ciceronis

          Yet you clearly have absolutely no sorrow over the fact that a child died, when that child could have lived, given one more week of development inside the mother. What is more important, the right to bury a dead body sooner rather than later, or the right to live?

          • lady_black

            Well, the hospital said no… so… whatever. I think the whole situation was tragic. Such a young woman, and pregnant with her second child. The hospital made it much MORE tragic than it needed to be, and for nothing. That fetus was incompatible with life. Another week and the fetus would STILL have been incompatible with life. You do realize that no matter what the circumstances, you cannot help yourself to the dead body of a stranger, RIGHT???

          • Tullia_Ciceronis

            This child was not a stranger to the mother. This child was the mother’s own daughter, whom she created and has responsibilities towards. Furthermore, the hospital said that it was unknown whether the Munoz baby could have survived, and they were going to do an evaluation in mid-February. How is it compounding tragedy to try to save a life and to insure that only one dies instead of two?

          • lady_black

            I’m not talking about “the baby/fetus.” It’s mother is dead. It’s not the next of kin of the mother, and at death, her obligations to it cease. I’m talking about the hospital. STRANGERS!!! The hospital/strangers/you have no right to the body of a dead woman to carry out medical experimentation of the non-voluntary nature upon a dead body. That’s HEINOUS! Meanwhile the REAL next-of kin, her spouse, along with her parents are not permitted to remove the body of their deceased loved one and give the body a decent burial. This can NEVER be allowed to happen again.

          • Tullia_Ciceronis

            What medical experimentation was going on? Babies have been born from brain dead women on life support before, so while this was a long shot, it was hardly experimental. Parental obligations do not cease at death. On the contrary, the state regularly garnishes the estates of deceased parents who were deficient with child support payments during their lives. Next of kin do not have the right to deny lifesaving treatment to a minor child unless that child is terminally ill or permantently unconscious. That is a federal law, called the Baby Doe Law, passed in the 1980s in response to parents who denied medical treatment to disabled children in order that they would die. As a disabled woman, I find it extremely disturbing that a father would let his own CHILD DIE because of his ABLEIST beliefs. IT IS ABSOLUTELY SICKENING that you are defending this and want it to happen in the future. If you were my nurse, I would demand someone else due to your ableist beliefs and complete and totally lack of respect for the right to life, the most basic of all rights. You value a CORPSE over a CHILD that could have LIVED!

          • lady_black

            Yes babies have been born from brain-dead women before. In all those cases the fetus was past the 20 week mark, most even further. Development was more complete AND (and this is a very BIG and). the woman wasn’t down for a hour before someone found them. The same cardiopulmonary arrest that damaged the maternal brain so profoundly that she was declared brain dead also damaged the fetal brain to the point that the skull was filling with cerebrospinal fluid instead of brain tissue. In addition, the lower extremities were so deformed sex couldn’t be determined, and the heart was developing abnormally. Doctors agree that live birth was out of the question. I do not have “ableist beliefs.” Only realistic ones. This was not “a disabled child.” This was going to be a stillbirth. In fact those were the only things attorneys on both sides of the case agreed upon. 1) Mrs. Munoz had died in late November, and 2) the fetus was incompatible with life. The dead woman’s obligation to her (then) 14 week fetus ceased upon her death. That’s not the same as delinquent child support, which can indeed be collected from the estate of the obligor, because at that point it’s declared a debt. All debts are subject to probate when someone dies. You have been misinformed. The fetus was not going to survive delivery (or even likely to term) because it was so severely compromised. You keep saying it could have lived. No it couldn’t have. Viability is not merely a function of gestational age. The health of the fetus matters too. This one wasn’t healthy.

          • Tullia_Ciceronis

            Have you bothered to actually research what you’re talking about? A brain dead woman gave birth at 27 weeks after being declared brain dead at 15 weeks. this has been in the news and in medical journals. If the sex could not be determined, why was the sex given as a girl after death? The hospital declared that while the fetus was incompatible with life at that time, they would do another evaluation in mid-February to see if that was still the case. If you are going to be intellectually dishonest and misrepresent the facts of this case because of your ideology, I have to wonder how that reflects on your ethics as a medical professional. And yes, I would argue that carrying one’s child to term if possible is a debt that one should be responsible for, even if one is legally dead..

          • lady_black

            It sounds like this woman’s family was in favor of doing this. It also sounds like the woman wasn’t without oxygen for an hour. I’m not even sure about the source. I’m sorry it didn’t work out. That changes nothing. Death ends all “debts.” Not every pregnancy is going to end well. That’s just how it is.

          • Tullia_Ciceronis

            Death certainly does not end all debts, legal or moral. The family does not have the right to discontinue lifesaving medical treatment to a child that is born, so why to a child that is unborn? Why is this different? Why should it be different? Saying that not every pregnancy is going to end well to justify a father letting his child die because he himself stated he didn’t want his disabled child to live is like saying that everyone dies in order to justify a parent refusing medical treatment to their disabled child so that the child dies. His lawyers claimed a lot of things about the child. They claimed they couldn’t tell the gender and then after the death they announced it. That gives me good reason to suspect their other claims about fetal abnormality. Hydrocephalus is treatable. So are many congenital heart defects. We’ll never know if Nicole Munoz could have made it because her father was determined that she should die. He didn’t want a disabled child. That is ableism.

          • lady_black

            Actually, the family does have that right. If a child is brain dead, the family has every right to pull the plug. In fact, the hospital may demand it, and the courts will back them up. You haven’t been paying attention, have you?

          • PJ4

            Did you wish death on these twins?

            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/22/christine-bolden-michigan_n_1444054.html

            Of course you hope they die as opposed to carrying on the mother’s legacy.

            Do you wish death on this child as well?

            http://www.vancouversun.com/news/metro/Tragic+lLife+death+story+plays+Victoria+General+Hospital/9463057/story.html

            I’m not surprised.
            That’s just how you anti-life pro aborts are.
            Amazing how you people are only ok with a man making the reproductive decisions of a beating heart cadaver only when the result is death.

          • Tullia_Ciceronis

            A brain dead child is permanently unconscious. Terminally ill and permanently unconscious children can be denied medical treatment because it is futile care. However, if the child is NOT brain dead or permanently unconscious, they cannot be denied medical care. If you don’t believe me, look up the Baby Doe Law for yourself. I have repeated this multiple times, and the one who clearly isn’t paying attention is you. Marlise Munoz was brain dead. Her child was not and an evaluation in mid-February would have determined whether or not the baby could have survived. Throughout this conversation you have become increasingly intellectually dishonest. You have shown that you don’t know the facts of this case and ignore them when they are presented to you. I don’t know why you are doing this, but clearly you have some emotional investment in this point of view, which is fine, as long as it does not interfere with your ability to comprehend information, which it clearly has at this point.

          • lady_black

            Tullia, I don’t know how to get the point across to you other than to simply keep telling you that NOBODY in this scenario was entitled to the dead body of Marlise Munoz, other than her next of kin. I have NOT become “intellectually dishonest” I have repeatedly kept repeating to you what I have just said. You just keep repeating back “but the child, but the baby.” Pay attention. IT DOESN’T MATTER. The “child”, “baby”, “fetus” whatever you wish to call it is not her next of kin, nor does it own her body. It’s VERY UNFORTUNATE the way things worked out. Mrs. Munoz DIED. That should have been the end of it. The fetus was not viable. END OF DISCUSSION.

          • Tullia_Ciceronis

            The fact that you think that her child does not and should not count as next of kin tells me everything that I need to know about you. By the circumstances the child was morally and should be legally entitled to the mother’s body for the purposes of survival. If I knew you and you were working around anyone that I cared about, I would certainly warn them about you not to mention file an official complaint with your employer. Your DISGUSTING valuing of a CORPSE about a CHILD that could have lived certainly shows me your complete lack of medical ethics. The hospital said that the fetus was not currently viable, but it was uncertain whether or not she could live. An evaluation in mid-February would have determined that. You cannot be trusted to work around the disabled, infants, young children, and certainly the unborn because of your lack of respect for human life. Go work in a morgue, among the dead, if you want, but stay away from those who are living and vunerable. Healthcare professionals like you are the reason for my mistrust of the entire profession.

          • 3cyndi23

            and me too? Start your own IV. Prescribe your own meds. Perform your own cholecystectomy, Tullia. You are the kind of patient we truly dislike having to take care of!

          • DianaG2

            Patients aren’t supposed to ask questions.

          • Tullia_Ciceronis

            Who needed the body more? The husband, who just wanted to bury the body sooner rather than later, or the child, who needed the body to survive? I cannot believe that to you, it is more important that a cadaver be buried sooner than a child be given a chance at life.

          • lady_black

            It DOESN’T MATTER who “needed it.” By your way of thinking, we can justify hijacking dead bodies from the families of the deceased because, you know, someone needs a kidney. Or a liver. Or a heart-lung transplant. Plenty of worthy recipients are CHILDREN. It doesn’t work that way. Plain and simple. You still CAN’T DO THAT. Even to save a child.

          • Tullia_Ciceronis

            Also, the Guardian article about the baby who was born from a mother who was brain dead at 15 weeks is posted here on this thread by someone else. The Guardian is a very reliable source and quotes from the medical journal that this case was published in.

          • 3cyndi23

            And where did YOU get your medical degree?

        • PJ4

          Thankfully, it’s happening again!!
          This should make you very very happy!!!

          http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/02/03/the-heartbreaking-tale-of-a-pregnant-brain-dead-b-c-woman-and-her-husband-hoping-for-their-sons-healthy-arrival/

          Hope it irritates and scars you for life that a baby is saved!!!
          I’m sure you’re saddened by the fact that the child gets a chance to pass on his mother’s legacy…
          We all know that pro “choice” is not really about choice.
          It’s about a dead baby.
          Thank you for proving this point.
          Pro lifers appreciate you doing our work for us. =)

          • lady_black

            I wish them all the luck in the world. Thank goodness it’s in Canada, and no one is forcing the family to do this against their will, and no one will be BANKRUPTED by this endeavor. Different case, different scenario, different health care system, different country, CONSENT. It makes all the difference in the world.

          • PJ4

            And you’re going to get a brain dead person to consent how?

          • lady_black

            Next of kin. A dead person is beyond consent in any capacity.

          • PJ4

            So then you’re ok with someone else making a woman’s reproductive decisions?

          • lady_black

            Only if she’s dead, and the decider is her spouse.

          • PJ4

            You’re very predictable
            As long as there’s a dead baby you’re happy

          • lady_black

            The only person saying that is you. I said I wish them luck. I also said he won’t be bankrupted by this, like he would here in the USA. I bet if we had socialized medicine here, more people would be sympathetic to your viewpoint. The USA treats pregnant women terribly.

          • PJ4

            You’re a typical pro abort
            You people are all the same

            People sent money from all over the world to that father in Canada…why? Because he made an effort to raise money
            He took time off of work to care for his dying wife

            Munoz would not have been bankrupt
            There were people willing to adopt the baby and help him with the bills

            Funny I don’t ever remember being treated badly during my pregnancies Even the unplanned ones
            As a matter of fact..I met many pro lifers who went out of their way to be nice to me and who offered to help me out financially
            *exception: some pro abort chick disparaged me for being so young and pregnant She actually yelled at me for being so young (I was 26 but I looked 16) and pregnant I’ll never forget her words.
            It’s actually one of the reasons I’m so vehemently pro life now

            Pro aborts continuously accost my friends in public who have chosen to have 5 or 6 children or *gasp* even more People like you hate big families and the women who choose them

          • lady_black

            NO. With few exceptions, “people” don’t treat pregnant women terribly in the USA. Society does. We’re the only civilized country in the world with no socialized healthcare, and no paid maternity leave, or even the barest of job protections. Munoz definitely would have been bankrupted by this farce, and indeed the hospital still plans on billing him for the unwanted treatment. Where are these people willing to help him pay the bills? Where did they go? The pregnancy didn’t work out. He has another child to take care of. And contrary to your blithe assertions, nobody is going to help him.

          • PJ4

            NO. With few exceptions, “people” don’t treat pregnant women terribly in the USA. Society does.

            Yes, because society isn’t made up of people…

            jeez.. do you read what you’ve written before posting it?

            We’re the only civilized country in the world with no socialized healthcare, and no paid maternity leave, or even the barest of job protections.

            Well.. you can always move to Cuba or China.. they have socialized medicine.

            My aunt in Toronto has to wait months and month to get to see her specialist.

            My cousins in the UK have nothing positive to say about their socialized medicine either.

            Munoz definitely would have been bankrupted by this farce, and indeed the hospital still plans on billing him for the unwanted treatment.

            Can you prove that?

            Where are these people willing to help him pay the bills? Where did they go?

            They would have stuck around if he hadn’t killed his unborn baby. It’s not that the pregnancy didn’t work out.. . he actively took his wife off of life support so that the baby would die.
            What is the man in MI doing with his twins?
            Has he been bankrupt?

            Why should anyone help a man who deliberately let his child die?
            That’s not a man.
            That’s just evil.

            I’d donate to the man in MI and I already did for the man in Canada.

            What are you doing for your new hero, Mr Munoz?

      • heartnurse

        Thank you.

    • Erin Miller

      I applaud your comment, heartnurse!

      • heartnurse

        Thank you so much Erin.

    • awkingsley

      Thank you for your profound heartfelt explanation. As it turns out, the baby is hydrocephalic, and other problems are suspected. The mother, although her heart is beating, is in a state of rigor mortis. As you stated, no mother in brain dead condition produces a healthy enough environment for nurturing a baby, and in Marlise’s case neither the doctors nor the father believed the baby was likely to be a live birth. Marlise condition was markedly deteriorating.

      • lady_black

        It doesn’t get much more “deteriorated” than dead. That’s pretty much the bottom of the trough, from which no improvement in “condition” can be expected.

      • heartnurse

        Thank you. Are you a nurse or in the medical field?

        • awkingsley

          I am not in a medical field, but many in my family were or are in medicine, including my spouse.

    • Birgit Atherton Jones

      Here’s a study that confirms that babies whose mothers are brain dead and on life support can survive. It really isn’t man’s call. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3002294/

      • 3cyndi23

        A ‘study’? Gross.

      • heartnurse

        Ma’am, I personally would not want to be taken off of life support if I were pregnant and dead as I would want my baby to have every opportunity to live because that is my belief. I also never said that it could not happen that babies survive while being incubated in a woman’s dead carcass. All I was pointing out in my post is that I have seen it not work before and there are many, many reasons as to whether or not this one could have continued to live and grow inside the womb or live outside the womb. For as many of these that you can find that have survived, there are many more that have not. All of you all are correct that it is not man’s call and I am a strong advocate for all babies (inside or outside the womb), those with disabilities, and adults where some have questioned quality of life vs quantity. I was merely pointing out the possibilities of a poor outcome and point out some medical issues that could have been present in her state. NONE of us have seen her medical records first hand on either side it is just what people have told, doctors, lawyers, family, staff or whatever and I will not make a judgment call on a situation in which I do not know all of the facts. I know ultrasounds and other medical tests can be wrong, I have seen God work fantastic miracles. The fact remains that someone did make the decision based on evidence he was given despite my feelings of it being wrong or misguided. I think it is disgusting if the family was not worried about the child. I did not see that statement. This child was the last part of their life together. I can’t see how someone would give that up without a fight. I am with all of you but I didn’t make the decision. But like everyone else that has aborted their babies for whatever reason, I do not wish them harm or ill will because I have respect for all human life even if I don’t agree with them.
        As for the comment of where did I get my nursing license, that was so extremely rude and inappropriate because it has nothing to do with the tragedy of this case. I will not address any other of the rude and condescending statements on here. I pray all of you have a blessed day.

        • Birgit Atherton Jones

          I just want to make sure you don’t attribute the comment about your nursing license to me. I’m not the one who said that. It actually sounds like we agree on most points. God bless.

          • heartnurse

            I should have added the name of the person that was so rude instead of putting it all in one post. That post did make it look like I was accusing you for which I am sorry as it was not my intention. Thank you for your support of life. Many babies will be saved because of it.

    • shorty3plus5

      Thank you, for your comment. As I read this I thought how heartless, when it was stated there was no concern for the baby. But reading what you wrote and other comments, I now understand. May God forgive me for judging. If I don’t ask for forgiveness I will be judged. Thank you, again for your insight of the matter and sharing your experience.

      • heartnurse

        Thank you for your kind words. It is a tragedy all the way around.

    • Amber Redmer

      Really? you’re a “nurse” — and where’d you find that degree?? — http://guardianlv.com/2014/01/baby-born-from-brain-dead-mother-confirm-texas-dilemma-video/

      • lady_black

        Hush. Have you no decency?

      • 3cyndi23

        I am a registered nurse, also. Bachelor of Science in Nursing x 30 years, mom of 2 children, grandmother to 3 (supposed to have been 4 but she had a perfectly healthy one sucked and dismembered out at 12 weeks).

        • heartnurse

          I am sorry about the loss of your grandchild. That sounds like it was devastating to you.

      • heartnurse

        As for the comment of where did I get my nursing license, that is so extremely rude and inappropriate because it has nothing to do with the tragedy of this case. I will not address any other of the rude and condescending statements on here. I pray all of you have a blessed day.

    • Rachel B

      Bravo! Best comment here and on this entire site!

      • heartnurse

        Thank you Rachel. I appreciate the kind words.

  • Diane

    The mother was not on life support she was on death support because she was deceased. Before you judge you may want to learn a little bit about brain death and what occurs in the body. The brain quits functioning and producing chemicals that are necessary to maintain the rest of the vital organs. Many different medications have to be pumped into the body to “try” and make up for what the brain is not producing. The body slowly deteriorates the longer this goes on. Circulation decreases which affects the blood supply to organs. Oxygen is depleted. The baby wouldn’t be receiving proper nutrition for development due to the failing of the mothers organs. This is just a small part of what all goes on. The baby was suffering from all of this and I find it odd that the article didn’t mention the many defects the fetus had. There have only been a very few babies that were born to brain dead females. Most were at or near viability when brain death occurred in the mother. The younger the fetus is at time of brain death the more dire the consequences due to all of the factors mentioned above. This mother was only 14 weeks at time of brain death. There is no known fetus to survive from that stage. What the hospital did was deliberately not follow the law and decide to perform some kind of sick experiment. Mrs. Munoz and the fetus were not donated to science for these purposes. Someone should pay dearly for breaking the law and causing suffering of the family and the unborn fetus. Please educate yourselves about brain death and fetuses on long term support in brain dead mothers. It will take many years of research for these things to be accomplished successfully. It seems that you have no sympathy for the suffering the illegal actions of the hospital had on the unborn fetus and the family.

    • 100%ProLive

      So well said, and facts that are being sorely overlooked by Live Action. I am embarrassed that people are commenting and have no clue as to what they are talking about. Shame on Live Action for slanting the story without all the facts…..that is the MSM and the way the Left operates. You should be better than that!

      • Erin Miller

        Well said.

    • KWedel

      We all agree that her body was not optimal. Her heart was beating on it’s own and she was on recieving breathing support. No doctor ever made claims that the baby had defects. That was all manufactured by the lawyers. No one is suggesting that she be kept on support indefinitely. We only felt that they should have given her a few more weeks and tried to save the baby. Instead the baby died a horrible death of suffocation instead of them waiting a few short weeks.

      • Diane

        You really think the lawyers manufactured that? Are you willing to eat your words when autopsy shows different?

        • KWedel

          I know they did and yes I would gladly eat my words. At this point I hope they are right. They have already killed the baby. Imagine how much more it is going to hurt if we find out that the baby would have survived.

      • 100 ProLife

        This has some big words in it, but go ahead and give it a try. The lawyers were conveying the information, but hopefully (said a little prayer) you can understand that the words in it came from the treating doctors. http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2014/01/22/22404705-fetus-of-texas-woman-on-life-support-distinctly-abnormal-family-lawyers-say?lite

        • KWedel

          Screw you. Your insults show your level of intelligence. When in absence of facts go ad hominem.

      • lady_black

        “Not optimal?” Isn’t that the understatement of all time! She was DEAD. That’s about as far from “optimal” as possible. Doctors can try to compensate, but the body knows what has happened. Little by little tissues begin to decompose. I shudder to think. This woman had been dead for two months.

        • 3cyndi23

          Does anybody want her kidney? Ewwwww….

  • Basset_Hound

    Hope these twins continue to thrive. Thank God their dad did the right thing…

    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/video/twins-born-to-brain-dead-mother-are-improving/1583944588001

  • Meg Pope St Peter

    Personally, you all need to get a life! Called none of your damn business! Want to gripe and moan ,go out and fight for those who’s awake and misguided mothers murder them, not commenting stupidity about a woman who has been ” dead ” by all legal definitions for quite some time.

    • Pertinacia

      But the baby was alive. S/he could have survived but she was let to suffocate slowly in his/her mother’s womb instead.

      • Erin Miller

        Given the circumstances, yes, the baby was left to die. The baby’s life line had been destroyed not by an abortionist’s tools, but by natural causes. Imagine, if you will, that unborn child’s soul is now with his/her mother in Heaven. Heaven is a far better place than a lifeless womb that is slowly (or quickly) decaying all around you.

        • Pertinacia

          I’m an atheist so I don’t believe in souls or heaven.

          If you let a born baby to die of hunger, it also dies by natural causes but guess what – it’s still murder.

          • Timmehh

            This is completely different. Feeding a child is completely natural and good! Keeping a dead woman’s body functioning? That is completely unnatural. Especially keeping it functioning for such a long period of time.

          • Pertinacia

            The result is the same. A baby who could have lived is dead.

          • lady_black

            Many born babies die of hunger every day and it’s not murder. The same goes for war and preventable disease. Whom shall we charge?

    • KWedel

      The none of your business argument is the same one used to defend abortion. Sorry we have hearts.

  • Bobbie Strauch Zeweke

    WOULD HAVE PREFERRED TO SEE THIS CHILD LIVE~ GOD PERFORMS MIRACLES EVEN TO THE VERY END~~I COULDN’T EVER DO THAT! NEVER!. HOPEFULLY WE WILL SEE THE RESULTS OF THIS BABY, :ONLY THE REAL PICTURE” OF “THIS” BABY~~~

    • Karen N

      Read an LA Times article about this that stated there are at least 19 documented cases of brain-dead women being pregnant and kept on life support during the last 30 years. The babies were born alive in 12 out of 19 cases. And in the cases they had follow-up information for, most of the babies were normal, aside from some breathing problems the first year following their births (from the article, it sounded like the breathing problems were because the babies were premature?).
      Sorry, I’d include the link but I’m on dial-up, which makes it really difficult to pull up two pages at once, especially if one’s a newspaper with a lot of ads . . .

  • Meg Pope St Peter

    The people who put this woman on life support, and then kept her on, were very misguided in what the law says. I hate abortion and think whole heartedly it needs to be abolished, but this case is so not in the category of abortion. Having worked with adults and young children with no quality of life gives you much pause before being someone elses judge.

    • Pertinacia

      Who decides whose life is “qualitative” enough to deserve to live?

    • KWedel

      My daughter has Down syndrome and autism. At six years old she functions at the level of a one year old. Many would consider her life meaningless. Where I see a beautiful very happy affectionate little girl that I would die without. Who gets to decide quality of life. By some people’s standards my daughter isn’t deserving of life. I dare them to look in her face and tell her that. Should she be killed because she is just a burden with no quality of life?

  • Bobbie Strauch Zeweke

    NO MATTER HOW YOU CALL IT, I SAY IT’S MURDER AND OTHER “BABIES HAVE LIVED THRU “MOM’S DEATH”, SOMEHOW MOM’S (LOVE) SEE’S “BABY”THRU. ARE YOU LISTENING “WORLD”?

    • lady_black

      And way more often it doesn’t. I understand your disappointment that things didn’t go well. What I fail to understand is the absence of compassion for the family.

  • 100%ProLife

    Please Report Responsibly This child’s condition was completely incompatible with life. http://abcnews.go.com/Health/texas-fetus-abnormalities-mother-brain-dead/story?id=21639616

    • 100% ProLife

      Not Down Syndrome, or Cleft Palate, or some other superficial defect. The malformation along with gestating in a deceased mother is beyond debatable as pro-life. You are better than this.

    • KWedel

      No doctor ever made that claim. The lawyers who think they know more than doctors manufactured that claim.

      • 100% Pro Life

        Again, this is embarrassing…..that people are so blind and ignorant….yes I said ignorant….you and everyone else not reading what was said in the courtroom are ignorant of the facts. The woman’s doctors, and the doctors charged with taking care of the baby testified to this in court. Look up medical definitions of 0 Brain Activity, and Not Viable. Do yourselves and the Pro Life movement a favor and read every now and then! Not everyone is the boogy man and wants to kill babies. This one was gone long ago just like the body of its poor tortured mother.

        I.give.up

        • KWedel

          There were no doctors testifying in court. The attorneys representing the hospital stated in court that the baby was viable. I would take the attorneys that were representing the doctors over the attorneys representing the father. The father made it clear from the beginning that he wanted the baby dead regardless of the condition. The family publicly stated that they did not care about the baby. The baby’s welfare was of no concern to them. They made that statement to the public.

          • 100% ProLife

            A breakthrough came when the hospital and the Munoz family agreed on crucial facts listed in a court document: that Marlise Munoz, 33, has “met the clinical criteria for brain death since November 28″ and that “the fetus gestating inside Mrs. Munoz is not viable.”

            Taken from this article http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/24/health/pregnant-brain-dead-woman-texas/

            Who doesn’t have facts….um that would be YOU and everyone else wanting to burn her family at the stake. And btw doctors don’t normally testify in hearings like this….they are too busy taking care of patients which is their job….and courtroom proceedings being a lawyers job. I can’t wait to hear you and others apologize for unbiblically judging a situation you have no clue about. I’m guessing we’ll hear crickets or twisted justification for calling this man and his wife’s family murderers.

          • lady_black

            The need for “personal” testimony from doctors is unnecessary and redundant. The medical records (into which doctors, nurses and other professionals make entries) speak for themselves, as they do in many cases. There was no contention being made by the hospital that it’s OWN medical records were inaccurate. Grab a clue.

        • Mitzi

          Speaking of favors you do one as well and change your screen name to “100%prolife…depending On the situation. Oh wait, and what the lawyers say. Oh and the doctors. Definitely prolife unless I find another reason to say otherwise”

      • lady_black

        Yes, doctors DID make that claim. The lawyer didn’t pull it out of the air. He read it in the medical records. I’m embarrassed for you. But I’m sure you have no clue about what is in medical records.

  • lauraannj322

    What a heartless husband and so-called father.

  • Liz

    I have two young kids and I’m pregnant with our third almost 21 weeks. If I’m brain dead I like my husband and family members to do their best to save my baby’s life no matter what it takes. If the baby couldn’t make it then it’s God’s plan and nobody should feel sad for you have done your best. But in this story the Dad have not done his best to save his own child how sad is that??? No Mother on earth would prefer not to save their child from dying, if there’s a little bit of hope I would do it.

    • lady_black

      I think everyone did their best. It’s OVER. The family was much more tolerant than I would have been. There was no “saving” to be done. The fetus wasn’t viable. Frankly, if it were my daughter, I would have rounded up a dozen large guys to barricade the door and kicked the plug out of the wall personally. I’ve cared for such a patient, and I would NEVER want to see anyone I loved in such a condition.

    • heartnurse

      Congratulations on your baby. I feel the same way as you do. I would want everything done to save my baby. I had 2 miscarriages before I carried my daughter to term. I couldn’t have anymore after that. She is 20 now and has been such a blessing to me. When she was born my heart almost exploded because of the love I felt for her. I can’t imagine my life without her.

  • nayan mipun

    jan 27, 2014, lets us give babies a chance.

  • nayan mipun

    jan 27, 2014, let me remind you that in such similar circumstances in the past cases when babies are allowed to born they made it and grew up.

  • Karen Barrera

    Dead or not, the baby should have had a chance to live. who are we to decide the ending of life? yes it was a difficult decision, but they even admitted that the family had no concern for the baby this women was carrying. ITS WRONG to end a life when you don’t really know the chances it might have had.

    • Erin Miller

      Who is God to decide the ending of life? Just a rhetorical question.

      • Andrew J. Corrales

        God? He’s ultimate reality and absolute truth. Good thing He usually doesn’t decide someone must die–He’s only known to do that when the person in question is completely depraved, by anyone’s standards, and literally impossible to reason with.

    • Timmehh

      Who are we to decide to keep a dead woman’s body barely functioning for 7 whole months? The doctors did not touch the baby. They simply let nature finally take its course and let the woman’s body rest. This whole situation was like something out of a science fiction horror movie.

      • lady_black

        It was a despicable Frankenstein experiment, and I feel horrible for the family and the staff who had to “care” for this. Never again.

  • mariah

    why didnt they just take the baby out before they took her off? even if it didnt survive what would have been wrong ? it died anyways? if they did it could have been a brake through.

    • Erin Miller

      I kind of agree, but isn’t there an ethical dilemma with doing experimental medical procedures that you suggest? I would be concerned with the trauma the baby would had endured.

    • lady_black

      What gives you the right to help yourself to the dead body of a stranger? You know you can’t do that, right?

  • JosephJunior

    The majority of my comments posted on CNN were either flagged, removed, or went through extensive moderating, creating a significant delay, so they would be read by few.
    The comments that were posted, were quickly met with vile attacks.
    Every so often we read about something awful that has happened to a woman who is pregnant. The husband and family are typically doing whatever they can to assist the unborn child. I acknowledge that most people would not want to be kept alive, if we were diagnosed as brain dead. Most of us would want our unborn baby to be provided a chance at life.
    I believe the instinct to protect and nurture is natural. The nation watched a husband and family fight, to end the life of their own baby. I find nothing natural or instinctive about the behavior. Is this now the “norm?” Unborn are only valuable if we want them? So sad…

  • raggiedolly

    Children have no rights, if this man was any kind of father, which he is not he would have given this child ( his child) every change for life of course he is selfish and could care less for his unborn child. SHAME ON HIM MAY HE ROT IN HELL.

    • Erin Miller

      So quick to judge. Wow. And I bet you call yourself a Christian. You actually sound like the high priests who ordered the death of Jesus.

  • kchae7
  • Kristy Patullo

    That woman was not going anywhere. The family could’ve at least tried to see if they could save the baby. So unbelievably tragic.

  • # sarahbetht

    I can’t imagine what that poor man must have been going through. I’m very much pro-life but, to ask a man to sit by his brain dead wife’s bed for 26 weeks while her soul has departed so that she can be an incubator- it’s unthinkable. This is a gut wrenching situation. I pray he finds peace and that judgement is not cast on him for making what had to be the most painful decision of his life.

    • KWedel

      Guess what. You are not pro-life. Face it everything you just said is pro-abortion. Please don’t soil our good name.

      • # sarahbetht

        Look. Neither you nor I know directly what God’s opinion is on this matter. There is no need to be rude to someone who shares many of your opinions but differs on this one situation- which is a tragic and thankfully, an uncommon one. The women’s life was physically over- her organs were being kept alive artificially by machines. I understand that there are cases where women and men have chosen life support until the child was born. God Bless them! But, I do not believe for one second that this man deserves any condemnation from strangers. What he needs is prayer and healing. Those without sin cast the first stone. You need to put your stones down.

        • KWedel

          She was only receiving breathing support. Her organs were working. Her heart was beating on it’s own. Experts have said that the heart cannot beat on it’s own if the brain is not working. So clearly she was very much alive. I fully agree that her brain was not going to recover. This was no longer about her. They want to say she was dead. So this was about the baby and the chance they should have given her. She was pregnant with a girl and they named her Nicole. Nicole should have been given a chance at life. The mother’s body was working to keep that pregnancy growing. Nicole would not have continued to grow if the body was not capable of sustaining the pregnancy. It just is a shame to see some one who claims to be pro-life supporting this. After seeing the pro-aborts jumping and cheering over Nicole’s death it is really sad to see a pro-lifer accept this.

          • Timmehh

            Actually, many pro lifers accept this. What happened was completely natural. Sadly, after a mother dies, in many cases the baby does as well. It’s terrible, but it is a hard fact of life. Being pro life doesn’t mean running away from death.

          • lady_black

            NO. She was not receiving “help with breathing.” She was DEAD. Trust me… I know the difference. For legal and moral purposes, she had died. And the existence of the non-viable fetus should have terminated with her, according to her wishes, and that of her family who loved her.

          • KWedel

            The baby was VIABLE!!! Why can’t you people get that through your thick skulls. The lawyers for the hospital by the direction of the doctors stated so on court.

          • lady_black

            Actually, what the hospital’s lawyers AND the family’s lawyers agreed upon was that the fetus wasn’t viable. Sorry, but you have been misinformed.

          • KWedel

            My Disqus dashboard is showing that I have about twenty responses from you. What the hell? Go away stalker I have no intention of responding further.

          • lady_black

            GOOD!

          • heartnurse

            I can see this has really taken a toll on you by this post. I pray you find peace. Not a peace in such you need to learn to accept it or forget it but a peace that can help you heal from this loss.

          • KWedel

            I follow many blogs and Facebook page do children suffering from life threatening diseases. I see at least one child a week die. I watch the doctors fight with everything they have to keep these children alive. I see the parents who beg plead and pray for their children’s lives. These parents would give up their own lives to save their children. It is human nature to fight for the lives of our children. This coward of a man not only did not fight for his daughter’s life he fought to end it. That goes against nature ad is selfish and cowardly. I pray his living child never develops any serious illness because with his father’s attitude he wouldn’t be long for this earth. This man refused to give his daughter a chance. I don’t care if the odds were 1%. That is better than the guarenteed death that he sentenced his daughter to. I follow the Facebook page of a little girl named Sophia Joy. She had leukemia and after going into remission she devolved a life threatening cold. Her immune system had been destroyed and she was dying. The doctors told her parents that there was less than a 5% chance of her surviving. The doctors fought for her life and she pulled through. A year later she is a beautiful, healthy and thriving child. Just imagine of those parents has Mr. Munoz’s attitude. What if they told the doctor that those odds were too low. To just let her go. They would be missing out on the joy their daughter gives them. There is no reason why the could not have given Nicole a chance. The day they took her mother off of life support they could have delivered the baby via c-section and decided if she could survive. Babies have survived as early as 22 weeks gestation. This man was a coward. He was so afraid of potentially being burdened with a disabled child that he had her killed. Killed in a slow painful way. There is no excuse for that. To see true loving patents struggling to keep their children alive and horribly mourning their death just makes this man more disgusting. There is no justifiable reason for not letting them try. This man does not deserve to be called a father. He did not act the way real fathers act. Real fathers would have done everything in their power to save their child. While this man, and I hate to use that word, went to court to force the hospital to remove his wife from life support knowing that he was killing his child. Why anyone for feel sympathy for that man amazes me. He deserves nothing but scorn. The family said in public statements that they did not care about the baby. That says everything right there. I wish this “man” nothing but suffering for the rest of his life. And info believe in God but I don’t belong to any religion or go to any church. So please spare the lecture on how Christians should behave. Of Christians condone child murder then I don’t want to be one.

      • lady_black

        She is pro-life. Pro life doesn’t necessarily mean inflicting horror on strangers in the furtherance of your “cause” (whatever THAT is). She was dead, the fetus wasn’t viable, and the family didn’t give the hospital permission to hold her corpse hostage for the benefit of an unviable fetus. End of discussion. Human dignity is important, even in death. No one can simply “help themselves” to your dead body for ANY reason. THAT isn’t “pro-life” at all, and this was not ever going to be an abortion.

    • heartnurse

      I would have wanted to be kept “alive” as an incubator for my child but sitting by my mother-n-law’s bedside watching everyone watch her die, the stress was unbearable at times. He didn’t have to sit with her all of the time. It would have been a hard decision. One I would not wish on my greatest enemy. I hope he can find peace as well.

  • Erin Miller

    No one killed this unborn baby. The cause of death was natural. The act of attempting to keep him/her alive in the dead mother’s womb is unnatural.

    • Andrew J. Corrales

      The human desire to help fellow humans is unnatural? If you ask me, that’s an ideal to strive towards.

  • # sarahbetht

    This is such a personal tragedy. No one can know in this situation what
    God’s will is. If in his heart he felt his wife’s spirit had departed and the child’s chances non existent- then he is being condemned for not extending his heartbreak. Who are we to ask that much of a man who in the blink of an eye saw all his future plans and happiness disappear? Who lost the person with whom he had chosen to spend the rest of his life? He’s being condemned by complete strangers… being called a terrible person, a horrible father. Pray none of you ever live one second in his shoes… And to those who condemn him to Hell- you’re casting stones when you should be praying for his soul. I can’t imagine Jesus sitting by his side at the funeral of his wife and unborn child whispering in his ear that he should go to hell for making a heartbreaking decision. Shame on the judgmental lot of you who pretend to know what is in God’s will for a complete stranger. You’re eaten up by your own opinions and have lost empathy.

  • Marauder

    To me, this comes down to whether the baby was continuing to grow and develop at any level despite the mother being brain-dead, and given the high level of emotion around this case, I’m not sure if we’re going to get a straightforward answer about that in the near future. If the baby’s development had flat-out stopped, then I can see realizing that enough was enough and this was a lost cause, but if the baby was still growing and this was a “quality of life” issue, then I can’t put any moral support behind this decision.

  • Rob

    May God have mercy on us. We can free the slaves and fight for equality among the races, but until the most innocent and helpless in our country are protected, we are nothing more than a white washed and modern Nazi Germany.

    • lady_black

      Medical experimentation on the unwilling is actually a hallmark of the Man from Germany.

  • 3cyndi23

    Did you hear they named the baby just before they let her rest in peace?

    • heartnurse

      Naming the baby does not sound like a family that lacked caring for the child. That is interesting.

  • Sandra

    I doubt that the brain dead mother would have agreed with her husband that this she is what she would have wanted. What a cold-hearted and selfish man her husband is! If it was my beloved spouse who was carrying a part of me and her inside her I would do everything to save the baby. The baby was meant to be born! Otherwise this would not have gone to court if the doctor didn{t think the baby was viable enough to be saved. What stupid excuses I am hearing from so-called nurses or other pro-death commentators here making assumptions that the human body is the same in all of us. You were not there. The mother{s doctors were and they are the witnesses to suggest that this baby could have lived and most likely be very healthy. The mother wasn{t brain dead for that long. The family couldn{t wait another week? This is evil.

    • lady_black

      Actually, both the hospital and the family agreed on two things. 1) Mrs. Munoz was dead, and had been dead since the incident in late November, and 2) the fetus was extremely compromised by the same event that killed the mother, and was not viable. I don’t know where you got the information that everything would have been fine in another week. It’s simply not the truth.

      • Sandra

        Lady_black, I don’t know where you get your info but it is obviously from some pro-abortion newsite. You are not going to convince me that any of this Munoz’s case is right. A brain-dead person does not mean the whole body is dead. Plus, from what I read the doctors said if the family have given it one more week then the baby would have lived on its own. Again, they would not go through the trouble of going to court if the doctors didn’t think the baby was viable. Plus, I read that the whole Munoz family didn’t care about the baby(healthy or not). That is enough info right there to tell you how they see the whole situation. What you are saying makes no sense with the whole case.

  • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

    Thank you God for sending the Munoz and Schaivo incidents to demonstrate to the sane among us how far religious authoritarians will go to interfere in the private family lives of others.

    I am so glad that this cruel disgusting incident is over. I am glad for the Judge’s wise decision. Every American who has had to make the hard decision to remove a beloved from life support is appalled at the insularity and cruelty of the zealots exemplified by this author and many others.

    • Andrew J. Corrales

      Religious authoritarians? What commentary do you have about pro-life libertarians, atheists, and agnostics?

      • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

        Why do you ask?

        • Andrew J. Corrales

          “Religious authoritarians,” that’s why. I’d just like to know what you think about antiabortion proponents that are nonreligious, libertarian, or both.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I think they are uninformed authoritarians some of whom may or may not be religious.

          • Andrew J. Corrales

            So people who oppose abortion in all cases except medical emergency leaving no other choice are rapists? You realize pro-lifers are mostly women? And what’s uninformed about pro-lifers? They’re the ones who learn embryology, philosophy, and other relevant subjects to argue. There are libertarians, authoritarians, progressives, classical liberals, Judeo-Christians, Muslims, secularists, “pagans,” men, women, black people, white people, Asian people, Native American people, Jewish people, and Arab people. You shouldn’t paint us with an overly broad, nonfactual brush. Libertarian paradise, shooting people for opposing abortion? I really don’t think you of all people should be whining about authoritarians. You’re just as guilty.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Nonsense, you don’t think. You moralize and emote. You probably should not have an abortion.

          • Calvin Freiburger

            In Libertarian paradise I say shoot them upon expression of an anti abortion opinion.

            you are the first one I would shoot.

            And in civilized parts of the blogosphere we say expressing a desire to kill people who disagree with you is the point of no return. See ya.

          • PJ4

            Do you see what I mean Cal?

            These pro aborts are truly helping us win the battle.

            Oh.. and here’s something of interest… maybe even article worthy.

            Prune Juice(plum dumpling) made the comment that lack of abortion has historically led to infanticide… however… she’s could not be more wrong.

            check out this site:

            http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/infanticide.aspx

            Notice the parallels between what justified infanticide yesterday and what justifies abortion today.

          • Andrew J. Corrales

            Nonsense, you don’t think. You moralize and emote. You probably should not have an abortion.

            Coming from the gal who’s OK with shooting people who disagree and doesn’t see the irony of calling that “libertarian” or “paradise”–or even quoting a passage that explicitly condemns shooting people who disagree. Hostile and passive-aggressive? I simply don’t agree with you, and I’m willing to stand up for my beliefs. Can you please learn what passive-aggression is? And realize I shouldn’t have an abortion–abortion destroys unique innocent human life with potential, destroying unique innocent human life with potential is murder, murder is wrong, and I’m not female. Thank you, Captain Obvious. And just so it’s out there, me using sarcastic name-calling is real, actual passive-aggression, not simply effectively disagreeing. That you would shoot those who disagree with you if you were in charge makes you less conducive to peace than I am.

            “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness, that to secure these rights governments are instituted among men…” Thomas Jefferson, the Declaration of Independence.

            As an afterthought, I notice your default argument is to express violent fantasies and not to try to demonstrate that my argument is nonfactual, inconsistent, impractical, ulterior in motivation, culturally biased, hypocritical, or otherwise not meeting the criteria for absolute, objective truth. You have a lot of strong accusations and strong hatred of those who disagree, making up for lack of strong arguments?