Culture

Convenience, disabilities: reasons abortion can be “ethical”

Safe, legal, and rare – it’s the catchphrase that many politicians like to use when they talk about their goals for abortion. But that’s oftentimes not really what they want. Ardent abortion-backers don’t care to keep abortion rare, or even safe, considering how they fiercely oppose any measures that would force abortion clinics to keep women properly informed about their pregnancy, or well-regulated as a medical facility. When Live Action’s own undercover work exposed routine law-breaking occurring at abortion facilities around the country, abortion activists weren’t angry at the women who were victims of the abortion machine. They were angry at Live Action for exposing the truth.

So safe, legal, and rare? It’s a catchy little slogan, but let’s not fool ourselves. Abortion activists want abortion to be not only legal, but commonplace. And there is no reason why abortion should ever be looked down upon, either. It’s not good enough for it to be legal and common. Everyone has to approve of it, as well.

Showing off this rather demented view is a pro-abortion feminist asking when abortion is the more “ethical” choice. I struggle to think when killing your baby might be considered ethical, but I expected to see the typical arguments, such as pregnancy after rape or with a terminal illness that would ensure that the baby died soon after birth – that is, a life-threatening pregnancy for the mother. They were there, but they were accompanied with examples such as these:

  • [I]n cases of extreme disabilities.
  • Trisomy 18, anyone?
  • With population as high as it is, an ethical case can be made for any abortion. (This is, of course, if the woman wants said abortion.
  • [O]ne possibility is if you have strong reason to believe you’ll be a terrible parent (you’re an alcoholic, say), and adoption options aren’t practically available.
  • Mother’s life in danger, child’s life in danger, can’t financially provide for a child, trying to make sure you can support your other children (both financially and emotionally)
  • In my opinion, any time a woman does not want to go through a pregnancy, forced birth is less ethical than an abortion. That is psychological and physical torture that will likely leave wounds for life.

The idea that these examples would not only be considered acceptable reasons to have an abortion, but morally ethical choices is sickening.

Aborting someone just because they have a disability? How could that be considered ethical in any way, shape, or form? A disability does not mean that a person has no right to live, although, sadly, there are countless people who disagree.

The “I might be a bad parent and adoption isn’t a practical option” argument is flat-out laughable, considering there are thousands upon thousands of couples who want to adopt but haven’t been able to. This applies to the “financially unprepared” argument, too.

Ultimately, though, each and every one of these examples comes back to the same thing: convenience. All of these examples are about women being able to have an abortion whenever they feel that a baby might be inconvenient for them. And not only is it something that they should be able to do, but they should apparently feel good about it, because they’re making an ethical choice: to kill their child because they can’t accept the consequences of their actions. According to the blogger, there are times when – according to her – giving birth is the less ethical option, where it would have been better to just kill the baby.

This attitude, while hardly rare in the pro-abortion community, is absolutely sickening. How much have we cheapened life if we’re at the point where not only are we allowed to kill the most defenseless among us, but women are being told that doing so means they are making an “ethical” decision?

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  • http://www.facebook.com/jeep.obsessed Brooke Mehr

    Wow. I’m reading the comments on the original article and it is scaring me how many people clearly agree that not only could abortion be the moral choice some of the time, but that they believe that it is always the moral choice. Some of the comments are just making me cringe and weep for how bleak our society has turned.

    I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again… Killing your child (or having a “doctor” do it for you) should never be seen as the right thing to do.

    • LoveTheLeast8

      You have to keep in mind that the original article comes from a site that is boldly pro-abortion so that is to be expected.

      • http://www.facebook.com/jeep.obsessed Brooke Mehr

         Agreed. But that doesn’t make it any less frightening.

        • LoveTheLeast8

           You are right. Quite true.

    • http://www.facebook.com/jeep.obsessed Brooke Mehr

      It shouldn’t surprise me that one of the commentators makes this statement:

      “The other side of that is that sex is ALSO a huge part of the human
      experience, and the right to enjoy sex in the way you want with however
      many or few willing partners you can find is part of the right to
      autonomy. So everything from zero partners to weekly orgies and
      everything in between should be accepted and embraced, and if you can’t
      do that at least have the courtesy to STFU about it. Certainly no one
      should face negative consequences for having the consensual sexual
      experiences that suit them best, especially not because some stranger
      disapproves based on a book of fairy tales.”

      Especially notice that “the right to enjoy sex in the way you want with however
      many or few willing partners you can find is part of the right to
      autonomy.”

      Really? Since when is it a right to have as much sex as you want with whomever you want with absolutely no responsibilities? Apparently that right is bought with the blood of their children.

      • http://www.facebook.com/jeep.obsessed Brooke Mehr

         Another one:

        “When is abortion the more ethical choice? When the woman who is pregnant
        does not want to be pregnant. For any reason, including because she
        wants to look good in her prom dress or she doesn’t want to have a girl.”

        Really? Are some women really that shallow that killing their offspring is seen as an ethical choice just because they want to look good or for gender preference?

        • LDGC

           Yes, because any woman who DOES NOT want her child has a greater potential to be a terrible parent. And I have seen too much of that effing up the people in my life to willing force a child upon someone.

          • http://www.facebook.com/jeep.obsessed Brooke Mehr

             Just because she doesn’t want her child does not mean that nobody else does. Adoption is the perfect chance for her to give the gift of a child to someone else who may be otherwise incapable of having children.

            Even if she cannot parent that child, that is not a justification for taking the child’s life.

          • Guest

            It’s not like kids ever get stuck in foster homes or anything. No not with all those families that want to adopt…

          • Oedipa

            I like how you people conveniently gloss over the nine months it takes to gestate. I’m not going to be in the business of bashing the adoption option, but it’s not a magic wand for the girl who doesn’t want to carry.

          • http://www.facebook.com/jeep.obsessed Brooke Mehr

            And abortion is not a magic wand for those wanting to have limitless sex without responsibility.

            I understand that pregnancy and labor are no picnic, but the dificulty that some (not all) women have for that time is not a valid justification for taking the life of the child that she willingly helped to create.

          • Edie414

            That’s not limitless sex, that’s having a normal healthy sex life, which is perfectly alright and normal. What isn’t normal is not using contraception and if the contraception fails no woman should be punished for that. It’s her body as a currently living human being and her right to choose how her future should go. 

          • http://www.facebook.com/jeep.obsessed Brooke Mehr

            How about some normal, healthy responsibility? Sex creates children. If her birth control fails, she should be willing to take responsibility for that life that she helped to create (almost always willingly). Even if she only takes responsibility for the 9 months of gestation and arranges for adoption to a loving family when the child is born. What is so difficult about that? And how is it so outrageous to say that adults should be willing to be responsible for their actions?

          • Violet

            I thought I’d read somewhere that statistically, parents of planned children were more likely to be abusive.

      • FB123

        Yeah orgies are wonderful, aren’t they?  It’s things like these that make me lose faith in humanity…

      • Oedipa

        I think her comments were fairly outrageous (maybe for outrageousness’s sake), but please explain how it’s not a right to have as much sex as you want. I mean, you could run afoul of a marriage vow, but that’s all I can come up with.

        • http://www.facebook.com/jeep.obsessed Brooke Mehr

          As far as I’m concerned, people can have as much sex as they want with whoever they would like. But, they should be willing to accept the responsibility that comes with such an act.

          Sex is enjoyable, but it is not meant to be entirely carefree without consequences (note, I do not mean consequences as a negative, more as an “action/reaction”). Sex creates new human beings. Using birth control can postpone that, but it is not 100% effective. Ever.

          Denying that actions have consequences and allowing adults to shirk responsibility is naive and that is what abortion does.

  • http://profiles.google.com/flameraven42 Beth Z

    I don’t support all of the opinions voiced in the original article, but honestly? If I were pregnant and found out the fetus had some disability or defect that would cause it to live only a few weeks, hours, or days? Yeah, I would probably terminate. Why bring something into the world that will only suffer life for a little while, and that in agony? That to me seems more cruel than simply ending a life of agony before it reaches the agony part. I realize I’m not going to convince anyone here, but 

    • LDGC

       I hadn’t thought about that but you do make a point. Why force a child to be born when, when they are born, it is to nothing but pain and agony. That seems pretty cruel.

      • http://twitter.com/debval2008 debbie valley

        Let’s just ignore their pain and suffering as they are torn apart limb by limb in the womb.  How compassionate of you.

    • JPG

      Why bring a child into the world that would suffer and possibly be in agony?….because it’s not your choice to make.  God is the orchestrater of life, and we do not have the right to terminate a life, no matter how short.  He ALWAYS has a plan, in every circumstance, no matter how painful, inconvenient, or costly it may be to us.  If you trust Him, it is easy to believe this.  Romans 8:28

      • Oneupdownstairs

        God’s plan is bullshit. It worked wonders in Aushwitz.

        • FB123

          Hmm… could you provide evidence that Hitler believed he was working for God in murdering millions of Jews?   Anyway, most religions (and God) view the Holocaust as a horrible thing and plenty spoke against it and suffered during that time period.  It wasn’t God’s plan for that.  Yes, He allowed it to happen, but He’d be taking away human free will if He did interfere, you don’t want that do you? 

          And watch your language, although it doesn’t greatly upset me, there are younger people on this site.

          • Joe

            “And so I believe to-day that my conduct is in accordance with the will
            of the Almighty Creator. In standing guard against the Jew I am
            defending the handiwork of the Lord.” Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 2.So, yeah, he did believe he was working for God (or was claiming he did, which is also possible.). Besides, I don’t see how you can defend someone claiming that God has a plan for each and every child born while simultaneously claiming that one of the most important events of the 20th century wasn’t his plan. That just doesn’t make sense

          • http://twitter.com/CalFreiburger Calvin Freiburger

            I don’t presume to know what’s part of God’s plan and what isn’t. I’d also agree that some Christians shoot themselves in the foot by casually throwing around the phrase without regard for its applicability or its implications. However, some of the above commenters make the opposite mistake of blaming God for the actions of human beings with free will.

            And don’t be so quick to put Hitler in the “Christian” column. Several biographers and historians write at length about how Hitler gave public lip service to the Church, but privately hated Christianity and even planned to replace it with a secular Nazi “church.”

          • Max

            “Mein Kampf” was a publication meant for the masses, and contained many falsified (glorified) accounts of his life. It was a tool of propaganda rather than an honest account of his beliefs and experiences. 

            Having read Documents on German foreign policy quite extensively (and domestic policy to a lesser extent), I can assure you that Hitler, at no point in his political career, felt that he answered to a God. Privately he was very critical of Religion and the policies of his government reflected this. The communications between the foreign ministry and the Vatican detailed this poor relationship  best. The language adopted was as a general rule quite hostile and on both ends very uncooperative. Many of the officials who surrounded him throughout his career also told of his hostility to religion as a whole.

            Mein Kampf is an interesting read to be sure, but was not written with any honest intent.
             

          • nickandrew

            It’s not much of a plan if it allows for atrocities like the Holocaust.

            Although if I take the line of JPG above, God’s plan not only allowed the Holocaust but required it. That’s pretty sick.

      • MTG

        Look, this argument is ridiculous. I can’t stand when people want to be passive about their decisions and blame God for “having a plan.” We have to be in control of our lives. We’re the ones living them. 

        It’s not like people want to have abortions–no one ever will want one. It’s a painful and terrible decision, but you know what, it’s absolutely better than the alternative. If someone is considering aborting, chances are, they’re not in a great position to provide for the child. And our government is one that is absolutely not accommodating to women or to babies. Sure, what if they could go through with the pregnancy and give it up for adoption? Not if you’re one of the millions of women who have to work and risk getting fired for your situation: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/31/opinion/pregnant-and-pushed-out-of-a-job.html

        You know what the two biggest determining factors of criminality are? Poverty and having a single mother. That’s not to say that every child born poor to a struggling mom is going to be a criminal, but it makes society’s problems a little less when individual women are given the right to choose their future–babies or not. 

        There’s a quiet joke that’s been going around: “Conservatives love babies. Until they’re born.” 

        • gmg

          ” There’s a quiet joke that’s been going around: “Conservatives love babies. Until they’re born.”"  And that joke is untrue.  It’s just said as many times as possible, irregardless of the facts, to try to make it seem true.  Yes, we do not support the bureaucracy that government programs create.  We believe in helping the individual, the mother and child, not the government.  We, as a group, give more to charities, with our time and money than our more liberal counterparts.  Those charities include groups that help mothers and children for many, many years after the child is born.  It is a joke, but a sick one based on factless ‘feelings.’

      • nickandrew

        If you believe your god hates abortion, then don’t have an abortion. You don’t have the right to force your belief-derived morality onto other people who do not have your religion. Furthermore, you don’t get the right to force your morality onto other people who do share your religion. It’s their choice how much of the tenets of their religion they wish to follow.

        • http://www.facebook.com/jeep.obsessed Brooke Mehr

          If you believe that abortion ends a life, which most of us here do, then it is not a legitimate choice. We do not allow murderers that choice, why should we offer it to would-be mothers?

        • MoonChild02

          Just a little food for thought:
          My aunt was forced ino an abortion by her now ex-husband. No one was there to help her out of the situation she was in. I found out that she’s not the only one to undergo such abuse, that it happens quite often. Many women do not choose abortion for themselves, it’s chosen for them, even if they don’t want it. Therefore, your whole slogan of, “Don’t like abortion? Don’t have one,” is complete and utter bull.

          BTW, my aunt was so devastated by the abortion she had, she became an alcoholic and died from cirrhosis of the liver. No one gets to tell me that post abortion stress syndrome and force abortion don’t exist, because someone I love suffered and died from it.

          Furthermore, if one does not agree to the beliefs of a religion, then they either need to reform or go find another religion. In the case of Catholicism, the Church is quite clear: being complicit in abortion is automatic excommunication. You do not get to tell the Church that She must accept you, even though you are not practicing the faith. The Church tells you that if you don’t like what we believe then you are persona non grata. I’m not trying to be rude, I’m just telling you the truth. Either commit to the faith, or leave. There is no such thing as a cafeteria Catholic, you are either Catholic or you are not Catholic, that’s it. Don’t tell me that you can pick and choose your beliefs within a faith, because that’s just not how it works.

        • JB

          Well you don’t have to invoke religion to be pro-life, you just have to know that humans have rights, even the unborn.  There are plenty of secular pro-life groups that make the same pro-life arguments as the religious do, so even if you dont share the same religious beliefs there are still plenty of reasons to be against abortion. 

          Pro-choicers don’t have the right to force their views onto society either, they don’t have the right to decide that the unborn are not humans or that their lives dont have value.  

        • Sara

          If God and religion was removed from this argument I would still fully be against abortion. It’s not even about God hating it. There are plenty of secular reasons that abortion is wrong. First of all the circumstance in which a women makes her choice, most are ilinformed about pregenency, the process, and her other options. If she doesn’t have the knowledge to base her “choice” on then how is she really making a choice? Isn’t it swayed by what she’s heard from others? And if that’s the case it’s not really her choice. Plenty of people have MULTIPLE abortions and in some cases they are poorly educated women who don’t under stand pregnency, sex, or birth control. In an essay written by an abortion nurse one of the young teens asked “when the baby would hatch from the egg in her stomach”. If someone can be that un educated on pregnancy how can she make a choice about giving up a child. It sounds to me as if the lack of a women being informed about her body and what she is about to have done in abortion is forcing a choice on her. Many women believe that it is the only choice they have. In that same essay a women is in the clinic with her husband who threatens that if it is a boy she is aborting then he will “kill her” it was also noted that the woman was bruised and gave the appearance of being abused. Where is her choice then? Is it really the pro-life side trying to force moral views on to women? It doesn’t appear to be that way. What we really need to be doing is supporting women who are pregnant and letting then know that abortion is not there only option. Instead we shun them, call them sluts, or make their pregenency a “condition” that can be cured with abortion.

    • Violet

      But why doesn’t the person who actually has the disability get any choice in whether to live or die? Among those who last long enough to communicate and make decisions, the vast majority of people in the world regardless of their health demonstrate a will to live.

      • peach

         Does the person with a disability actually have that choice though? Last I heard assisted suicide and euthanasia were illegal.

  • http://www.facebook.com/mgafm Ashley F. Miller

    Just a formatting note, that last bullet includes a quote and the beginning of your comment, you probably want to separate them.

  • Rillion

    If you don’t consider abortion to be unethical (as I don’t), then there is no reason to come up with reasons it should be considered ethical. It’s a choice a pregnant mother makes according to her own assessment of her needs and abilities. Unless you think it’s unethical for an individual to damage *herself*, in which case abortion still wins out as it’s far less damaging than pregnancy and childbirth.

    • Rillion

      I meant pregnant *woman,* of course, but many women who get abortions are also mothers– women who already have children and don’t want any more.

    • http://twitter.com/CalFreiburger Calvin Freiburger

      If you’re still describing abortion as a woman damaging part of “herself” rather than damaging somebody else, then you haven’t worked through the issue nearly enough.

  • Mary T. Canny

    I too have often thought than many of the “reasons” to have an abortion came down to what was convenient for the mother rather than what was right for the child.

  • Violet

    The pro-abortion camp keeps reiterating the assertion that childbirth is more traumatic than abortion, but I haven’t come upon the evidence quite yet, even just of the isolated anecdote variety.

  • peach

    You didn’t offer any counter-argument to the woman’s life being in danger. Though I guess it is more convenient for a woman to be alive than dead. Jeez, how selfish is that. Especially if that woman is already a mother with kids and a husband at home to take of… I wonder how ethical it is to let a woman die when all it would take to save her life was a relatively safe and simple medical procedure.

    • peach

       It wouldn’t even be murder would it? More like self-defense.

    • JB

      If a mother’s life were at risk during a pregnancy, the ethical thing to do would not be to abort the child, you could just try to surgically remove them from the womb.  Of course, the mother’s life is also important and many pro-lifers would say if the mother’s health is in danger to the point that the unborn baby should be removed, then the baby should just be removed, not intentionally killed. 

      The doctors should do everything they can to save the mother and the baby.  If the baby dies in the process that is unfortunate but at least the doctors can say they did everything they could to help them AND the mother.  I don’t think too many pro-lifers would say just let the woman die, because then you would have a mother and an unborn baby dead, that is not pro-life. 

      • peach

         surgically remove from womb = abortion

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000158918569 Brittany Baylor

           ”Surgically remove from womb” can also equal a C-Section. The difference is in *intent.* If a doctor must remove an unborn child in order to save the mother’s life, and in the process does as much as is currently possible to maintain the dignity of the life growing inside her, that is one thing. Treating the child as a “parasite” or a “blob of tissue,” is totally different.

  • Edie414

    I had an abortion. I’m proud and so are many other women. There is nothing wrong with a human being making decisions for themselves about their life choices. When we stop allowing people to make choices about themselves that’s when we become enslaved to the state. That’s disgusting and awful.