chasing-nj

New Jersey news cast reacts to graphic abortion images

A New Jersey news crew recently produced a story on their own collective reaction to a video developed by Created Equal, a pro-life group that shows graphic images of abortion in public areas. Created Equal operates under free speech rights, setting up overt displays that put the reality of abortion in plain view for passers-by in busy pedestrian locales.

The crew, Chasing New Jersey, watched the following Created Equal video, and “Chaser” Bill Anderson instigated a discussion about their reactions (second video) after they saw it. Warning: The first video below contains graphic abortion images.

This is the crew’s reaction:

Reactions were varied, including incredulity from a father who says he doesn’t allow his nine-year-old to watch horror movies that are much less gruesome than the abortion images. A female member of the crew, however, shared that her friends wished they had been given the opportunity to know what abortion was really all about before they underwent the ordeal themselves. “People don’t get an opportunity to see something like this,” she said.

Another crew member summarized the video’s ultimate message poignantly, saying:

Regardless of how you feel on the issue, if their goal was to get you to evoke these emotions, and these visual images for the word ‘abortion,’ I mean they did a great job. I’m never going to forget that for the rest of my life.

Virtually no one likes this method of education — pro-lifers and abortion advocates alike — but such advocates of life as Fr. Frank Pavone of Priests for Life have long held that “America will not reject abortion until America sees abortion.” Consequently, what have come to be known as “graphic images campaigns” now dot the nation in an effort to educate the public about what abortion is in a country steeped in rhetoric and sophistry that often divorce abortion’s reality from our sanitized way of thinking about it.

  • Tylei

    Wow.

  • WorldGoneCrazy

    “Reactions were varied, from incredulity from a father who says he doesn’t allow his nine-year-old to watch horror movies that are much less gruesome than the abortion images.”
    To this father: those horror movies are fiction. These pictures are reality. Let’s make abortion a fiction, so that your daughter, or granddaughter, does not have to grow up in this liberal-driven holocaust.

    • cranemaker

      Lets show the the legislators these images, so they can courageously condemn abortion for what it is, genocide. They need to see it to reject it. Given enough coverage, we can drive it extinct! Abortion should haunt everyone today and for generations after we will abolish it.

      • WorldGoneCrazy

        Beautifully put! I wonder if someone is sending these images to legislators? I guess if we send them to Democrat ones, we can expect an IRS audit?

        • Basset_Hound

          They’ll be knockin’ on yer door any minute dude. Have ‘yer receipts ready, and put your CPA on speed dial!

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Ha! You are feeding my already high paranoia meter today, well-done!

      • Basset_Hound

        I’ve got a better idea. If they think that the ancient “Silent Scream” video is fake, why don’t they rack up a sonogram, and a camera and film one of those damned procedures. Then they could settle the debate once and for all…oh wait…maybe don’t even want the mothers to see the sonograms! That alone tells you something.

    • IHateYourBS

      Go feed your pets/children subgrade food, expose them to both physical and psychological abuse, all-the-while keeping them locked in small cages for all of their lives. But make sure you fight them people who are really doing harm to society, like those who abort fetuses that can’t even feel pain, let alone have a developed enough brain to know what is happening, or have the ability live on their own. Those damn liberals, do they have no conscience? I mean, it is one thing to kill a non-human, or even a fully grown human, even if it can feel pain and is aware of its surroundings as long as it fits our political agenda.

      Seriously, if you feel that it is okay to kill other living beings as long as they are dependent on you for life, food, care, and shelter with no consequences (i.e. pets), but a fetus is off limits, then you are a bit touched in the head. Incase you try to go all Bible on me:

      James 2:10

      For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it. (FYI: that mean a sin is a sin, no matter what, or whom it is done to.)

      John 5:16-17

      All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.

      So go fuck yourself, CONservaTARD.

      • Eli Mochabrown Hanes

        Im sure that anyone who is against abortion is against child abuse as well. The point in them protesting abortion is because abortion is legal and there are quite a few people who condone it and think it is ok. They arent going to protest child abuse because it is illegal and everyone who is sane knows that child abuse is wrong.

        • IHateYourBS

          Who decides what abuse is? You sure as hell don’t. Do you think calling your kids names is okay or not giving them enough attention is okay? Do you think it is okay to whip/slap your child? Do send them to bed without letting them eat? Or leave them alone, or with those who do physically abuse the kids? That is all abuse.

          With child psychology developing even more, we have a better understanding of what parents do can affect their kids in negative ways, even if it doesn’t leave a bruise. To limit abuse to just physical violence is pretty stupid. And to say anyone who is against abortion is against child abuse is a fallacy and has with no backing at all.

          • MamaBear

            I am pro-life and that is not how I raised my kids. Nor have any other pro-lifers I know. You father was NOT typical of most pro-lifers. Your father’s abuse of you was inexcusable, but it was because he was pro-life.

          • LiveActionNewsIsCrap

            He was an abusive man who happened to be pro-life. The abuse had nothing to do with the fact he is pro-life, unless you forgot to put in a negative.

            But to say that is not typical of most pro-lifer is complete crap. There is no evidence that suggest that pro-lifers don’t abuse children because they are pro-life. That is a logical fallacy.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            I replied to your previous posting above before reading this. Sorry about your dad mis-treating you. I could tell you had a tough upbringing. Jesus definitely loves you though. God bless!

          • LiveActionNewsIsCrap

            Thanks

          • PJ4

            Interesting that you question who gets to define abuse, state that it’s certainly not Eli, and then go on to define it yourself

            Amusing that your complaint is hypocrisy but don’t acknowledge you own.

          • LiveActionNewsIsCrap

            Giving examples =/= stating a definiton, I’m not sure how you confused the two. But I really don’t think that would matter to you.

          • PJ4

            Eli didn’t define abuse either, funny you tried to accuse him of it though.

          • LiveActionNewsIsCrap

            Please, it is obvious he edited the comment after being called out on it. Why would I be talking to myself like that otherwise?

          • PJ4

            I just started reading the comments on here this morning so I can’t say

          • LiveActionNewsIsCrap

            You are exhausting, can we just call a truce between us?

          • PJ4

            Exhausting?
            Moi?
            You. Have. No. Idea.

          • Eli Mochabrown Hanes

            I did not edit anything out of my comment. If I edited anything it was grammar or spelling mistakes

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            That’s a funny new moniker! But, I beg to differ: LiveActionNewsIsAwesome! And, Lila Rose is to Planned Murder-in-Da-Hood what the French Resistance was to the Nazis!

      • Eli Mochabrown Hanes

        And there has been evidence that a fetus can feel pain starting at around 20 weeks. While abortion is legal (In the U.S.) up to about 26 weeks in some states. So there are still many abortions that take place while a fetus is capable of feeling pain.

        • IHateYourBS

          Really now, there are no credible sources that states what you stated to be true. And the only ones that do state that are anti-abortion websites that gives no sources. Better luck next time.

          BUT, there is evidence that the brain of a fetus is nothing like that of a human until 27-30 weeks. Hence, why some states allow abortion up to 26 weeks. You can find that information at nlm.nih.gov.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Are you saying that an individual who suffers a traumatic brain injury is no longer human and can be “put down” by the liberal eugenicists? Because, given your rants, you just might qualify. :-) Just kidding!

          • LiveActionNewsIsCrap

            If you really think the equalivent to a individual with a brain injury is a fetus, there is something wrong with you.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Why are you using the word “fetus” instead of “little human being in the womb?” Is this an attempt by you to de-humanize the human being in the womb, in the same manner that slave owners de-humanized black people and Nazis de-humanized Jews? For someone who suffered the abuse of a violent father who overwhelmed you with his power, I would think that you, of all people, would be the MOST sympathetic to the helplessness of an innocent defenseless human being in the womb matched up against an abortionist with his instruments of death. After all, if what your Dad did to you when you were growing up was evil (and it was!), then why, pray tell is it not even more evil what abortionists do to even smaller human beings?!?

          • LiveActionNewsIsCrap

            That is the proper term, you stateing that it is a “little baby human being…” while it is technically true, it is just used to play to the emotions of others.

            No, human being (or any animal) with a fully developed brains (or as developed as it will become) does not equal to a fetus which doesn’t feel pain, or experience feeling and emotions.

            I don’t let my emotions override my thinking. As I have stated before, if it were up to me I would end abortion, but I couldn’t in the world we live in now. Pain, not only physical pain from genetic faults or environmental causes, but psychological pain are terrible things to live with. To spare a non-human animal of a life of pain is accepted, I am questioning why the double standard and hatred of something that could stop suffering before it even started, in humans.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Well, all human beings suffer: some more and some less than you have. We are not God, so we cannot determine which ones will and which ones will not suffer. All human beings have the right to life, because all other human and civil rights are dependent on this one right. If a person can condemn slavery because it denies the right of freedom to an individual, how can he or she not condemn abortion? Even the slave was granted the right to life before losing his right to freedom. Similarly, many famous and accomplished people are the products of rape – their lives were still valuable. That’s kind of where I was going with the “intrinsic moral value” question: humans have a value that is not dependent on being a means to an end – we have value in and of ourselves. And killing a baby in the womb because she is expensive, inconvenient, or just because she is a girl is using human beings as a means to an end.
            Here is an example: suppose I saw your mom pregnant with you and knew that your dad was an abuser and that he was going to brutalize you – like I had a crystal ball or something. I would have done everything I could to adopt you or to report your dad to the police or to buddy up with you and get you out of the house as much as I can – anything I could have done. I would have also shared the love of Christ to your parents and made sure they knew how incredibly evil it is to mis-treat a child, even in the slightest sense. I would have counseled them, educated them, cajoled them, even embarrassed them into proper parenting. I would have shared my financial resources with them, if that was a source of their mis-treatment of you – without any expectation of them paying me back. And, if you think about it, that is precisely what crisis pregnancy centers do in the case of abortion-minded women.
            It’s still a great question about a double standard, but to me, that question applies to euthanasia more than abortion. Nevertheless, in a Christian worldview, humans are made in the Image of God and animals are not. I know you won’t like that – I am a HUGE animal lover myself and abhor any animal cruelty and have lots of pets and my dog and I are so inseparable that people can’t tell the difference between us. :-) I will cry thousands of tears when he is gone – I cry just thinking about that day in the future. But, I do not think a dog has the kind of self-awareness that would allow him to understand any value in suffering or any end to it. Someone else on this website can probably explain this better than I can, and I hope they see this and will. God bless you so much!!! You are strong and courageous to come in here!

          • Dawn Kinsey-Jeffers

            Because it’s NOT our decision to make. There is suffering for a reason. If everyone was perfect, we wouldn’t even know joy. And just because you think you couldn’t stop something, doesn’t mean it’ll get stopped by no one trying. Apathy and complacency are excuses for spineless people.

          • PJ4

            Now this is interesting…

            That is the proper term, you stateing that it is a “little baby human being…” while it is technically true

            So, you begin with conceding. You just don’t like the connotation because it’s emotional
            Something being emotionally charged doesn’t reduce the level of truth involved.

            Ok.

            Then you say it were up to you would end abortion.
            Why?
            If, in your opinion fetuses have less value than animals, why would you even care about stopping it?
            They don’t feel a thing, so why should you care enough to want to stop it?

            You’re saying you’re against it, but then you’re for it.
            Why the double standard?

            Also, you’re assuming here again.. how do you even know that any suffering will take place? Are you a psychic?

          • Betty Tracy

            Fetus is simply Latin for offspring (child). Using a different language just confuses the issue, hides the truth. At least speak English.

          • Wackcity

            LMFAO, the term fetus is used…because well THATS WHAT ITS CALLED !

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Correction, that’s what he or she is called. Why not “baby” or “child,” Wackcity? Sure, ‘fetus” is technically correct, but it’s just Latin for “little one.” She is a human being, in the latter stages of development before being born.

            It seems to me that pro-aborts like to use the term “fetus” in the same way that Nazis liked to use the term “rats” for Jews and slave owners used the n-word for black people. In both cases, they were (incorrectly and immorally) declaring Jews and blacks to be sub-human. But, a human fetus is not a sub-human: she is fully human. Not as developed as you or me, but just as human. That’s just basic human biology.

            It seems to me that pro-aborts do anything possible to use a term that allows them to hide from the fact that they are on the wrong side of a major holocaust when it comes to human beings in the womb. It makes them feel less guilty. Are you one of those, Wackcity? Do you think your Mom’s OB used the term “fetus” or “baby” to describe your development when you were in the womb? :-) God bless you, Wackcity!

          • Dawn Kinsey-Jeffers

            There is something VERY wrong with you.

          • Rich Morris

            Not true …I was a health teacher and a National Geographic research documentary talks about how most experts believe that the child feels pain at 20 weeks. its so funny how we (Society as a whole) will believe a theory like Global warming with no real hard facts, but we are not willing to take the same leap of faith on the part that a child, a precious child, of your own kind can feel pain at 20 weeks…wouldn’t it be ok to give this one the benifit of the doubt (error on side of caution) on this one Mr. IHATE YOUR BS? whatever that means.

          • Kare Ive

            Amen!

          • LiveActionNewsIsCrap

            Reflex =/= the ability to feel pain.

            Aww, yes. An American school teacher, the epitome of intelligence and proper learning.

            Seeing as until recently(mid 90’s IIRC), doctors were operating on babies without anesthetic because they believed babies could not feel pain, I really don’t believe you at all on the expert thing, also, I can’t find a source. An if so where are your sources? As I stated, I can’t find it anywhere that doesn’t have an agenda to push.

            If you really believe global warming has no evidence I…..No, you won’t drag me into that debate.

          • Dawn Kinsey-Jeffers

            What the fuck is wrong with you? Apparently you and “IHate” are sadistic mother fuckers. Too bad your moms didn’t choose abortion I guess. Maybe then you’d be opposed to it. Abortion STOPS life. End of story. It’s NOT natural. When a fetus naturally “aborts” it’s called a miscarriage. It wasn’t caused by a third party’s conscience decision to kill him/her. Face it, people who support abortion are lacking a critical moral compass- therefore you are deviant.

          • PJ4

            Dawn, sweetie, you need to calm down.
            Using bad language isn’t going to get us anywhere.
            Yes, we disagree with him.
            Yes he’s wrong.
            Will we ever change his mind?
            Probably not.. but other people are watching.
            They are reading our exchanges.
            Let’s show the fence sitter who the good guys are..
            Let’s not stoop to the level of the pro aborts.
            This guy’s been invective all over the page… but that’s how pro aborts are.
            We’re not like them.
            Let’s act like it.
            Let’s not attack him (even though he’s attacked most of us).
            Let’s attack his lack of reason and logic.

            Oh and “Ihate” and LiveActionNewsIsCrap is the same guy.

          • PJ4

            The fact is though since Roe, medical technology has advanced greatly
            Children born at 21 1/2 weeks can now be kept alive and can eventually flourish
            Roe must either be overturned or be adjusted to meet newer healthcare standards for preemies

            Id prefer the former but I’d settle for baby steps

        • Stacey Decker Woodward

          Whether or not the “fetus” (baby) feels pain has absolutely NO bearing on whether abortion is right or wrong. Abortion is STILL murder, even if it is painless! Just as it would still be murder if I anesthetized your whole body before I killed you. The pain argument is really a red herring.

      • john lind

        If a single member of any non-homo sapiens species is able to articulate that it has the right to not be aggressed against, I’ll speak out for the rights of every member of the species to not be aggressed against.

        Until that day, I’ll focus on the rights of members of homo sapiens, whether in a gestational stage of life or a post-gestational stage of life.

        • LiveActionNewsIsCrap

          So because you don’t understand them, it is okay to not give a fuck about them? Excuse me, I wish to own land in France, good thing I don’t speak french so I don’t have to care what they think or how they feel about it.

          Nice logic, buddy.

      • WorldGoneCrazy

        Oh yes, name-calling and the f-bomb: the hallmark signs of a liberal “intellectual.” I do so remember my former life of hate. You really went unhinged on me, IHate: I’m sorry ObamaDoesntCare did not come through this month on your meds. :-) I will purchase your psychotropics for you, and yes, I love Hobby Lobby! But, I don’t “heart” Planned Murder-in-Da-Hood.
        Here are two questions to ask yourself that will hopefully cut through your rant and bring you back to the world of sanity:
        1. Do human beings have intrinsic moral value? (Sorry for the big 3-syllable word in there. Do you have a dictionary? I could send you one – along with a Bible.)
        2. Is what is located in the womb, following conception, a human being?
        Extra credit:
        3. Why are you for saving the baby whales but against saving the baby humans? If you had an awful upbringing, I am really sorry that happened. Do you want me to adopt you? I could be your mentor. I’ve been where you are, “where no man has gone before,” and I know it’s ugly in there.
        4. Are you against the death penalty for convicted cop killers?
        5. If the answer to 4 is “yes,” then why are you FOR the death penalty for innocent defenseless babies in the womb? Seems backwards, no?
        Finally, Jesus can cure you of that hate, IHate. He loves you and I do too. God bless! PS. Sorry about that election thingy last week. I’m sure there will be plenty of baby dismemberment in the future of the Abortion (Democrat) Party, formerly the Slavery (Democrat) Party, aka the “It’s Good to Own Black People” Party. :-)

        • LiveActionNewsIsCrap

          You insult my intelligence, yet can’t construct a proper sentence and you think I’m a liberal because of one political view? I see this is going to be fun.

          1. Of course humans have a natural sense of morality. This comes from the development of our advanced brain. To say the only way we have morality is through religion tells me all I need to know about you.
          What is your reasoning to believe we had no morality before religion? I HAVE to hear this.

          2. ” Is what is located in the womb” Ill let you ponder that one, Confucius.

          But seriously, it is a zygote or a fetus. It doesnt matter until its brain is developed. We, as a society, already dictated that it is okay to kill those whom can’t really defend themselves and/or are completely reliant on us. Now it become a problem? The shear amount of hypocriticy must be a hell of a thing to live with.

          3. I’m against the hypocrisy of the argument. If it were up to me, there wouldn’t be either, but I also wouldn’t let kids grow up starving or in ran down homes. As so many of you are okay with. Save the Fetus, Starve the Child? No thanks, spare them the torment.

          You can’t be taken seriously if you have such conflicting views, and see it as nothing.

          4. Why would it matter if they were cop killers? Are normal civilians not worth as much to you? Even if cops willingly put their life in danger by accpeting the job? I could see people being angry because soldiers were killed inside the country, but come on, cops? What the fuck do you think their job is?
          Anyways, I am for rehabilition, if the crime isn’t terrible. As this benefit society more. If it comes to a horrendous crime, then they should be locked up for life. Let the perpetrator’s mind and conscience do the real punishing.

          5. I merely pointed out the hypocricy, I never stated my stance. I could have been playing devil’s advicate and be pro-life or not, I never made it clear. I did throw some stuff back into other people’s faces (The CONservaTARD thing come to mind), but that it just a ‘giving you a taste of your own medicine’ sort of thing.

          We all know party names change, but ideology doesn’t. I’ll leave it at that.

          I take to the other side of this argument too. This time you happened to be pro-life, so I questioned the pro-life side this time. Please don’t take this personal, it just a debate.

          • PJ4

            But seriously, it is a zygote or a fetus. It doesn’t matter until its brain is developed

            Zygote and fetus are merely developmental stages of a human being.

            The fact that the child in the womb is a human being matters. What if the child’s brain development is impaired? Should we give them less value?

            We, as a society, already dictated that it is okay to kill those whom can’t really

            Have we now? I don’t remember this consensus. And if so, when did this consensus carry over to our own kind? Care to explain?

            Animals should only be killed out of necessity, btw.

            Now it become a problem? The shear amount of hypocrisy must be a hell of a thing to live with.

            I think the idea of killing own’s own child has been considered a problem way before now.

            What hypocrisy?

            If it were up to me, there wouldn’t be either, but I also wouldn’t let kids grow up starving or in ran down homes. As so many of you are okay with. Save the Fetus, Starve the Child? Ha

            Who is saying “save the child in the womb, starve the born child”.

            I’m quite curious.

            Have you ever heard anyone say this specifically? Has there been a peer reviewed study on it?

            If not, where are you getting this pro abortion meme?

            Anyways, I am for rehabilitation, if the crime isn’t terrible. As this benefit society more. If it comes to a horrendous crime, then they should be locked up for life.

            Agreed.

            Let the perpetrator’s mind and conscience do the real punishing.

            This is quite naivë of you.

            Unfortunately there are these people called sociopaths and psychopaths that don’t have much of a conscience. In their mind somehow, they did nothing wrong.

            I never stated I was a Democrat either

            Well, you’re acting like a liberal.. I think WGC was just making an observation based on your invectiveness and your non-abiility to have a conversation without insulting someone.

            I vote based on if the candidate whom I feel shares a majority of my views, or is a big proponent of something I believe in.

            I think most people do that. I know I do.

            What do you do? Vote based on what letter in next to the name?

            Interesting that you ask the question and then assume the answer.. do you do this often?

            The reason this country is going to crap is because people like you don’t care enough to research who you are voting for.

            Wow, now you’re making an even bigger assumption.

            How do you know that is what he does?

            Interesting that you’re trying to point out the “hypocrisy” on both sides, yet you don’t see the hypocrisy in your own comments.
            Please don’t take this personal, it’s just a debate.

          • LiveActionNewsIsCrap

            An brain damaged Human =/= to a fetus, I really do not know how many times I have to explain that. The human brain develops A LOT outside of the womb and are not like that of a fetus, so they cannot compare to each other.

            ” ..And if so, when did this consensus carry over to our own kind? Care to explain?”

            Rowe v. Wade…? I believe that is when it happened… :P Stop being silly, you are cannot be this empty minded, you have to be trolling so I’m done with you, Troll.

          • PJ4

            An brain damaged Human =/= to a fetus, I really do not know how many times I have to explain that.

            Ok Mr. No Reading Comprehension.

            Where did I compare a brain damaged human to a a human life in the womb? I asked: what if the child’s brain development is impaired? Should we give them less value?

            Apparently you are not strong enough in your convictions to answer such a question.
            Too profound for you?

            Also, just so you know… http://news.sciencemag.org/brain-behavior/2013/08/babies-learn-recognize-words-womb

            Is it your contention that we are not human when we are in our mother’s womb? It certainly sounds as though you believe nonsense.

            Roe was not a consensus. It was a court ruling. Court rulings can be overturned.

            Of course you’re done. You cannot answer any of my other questions and you have no argument.

            Oh..and look around sweetie.. .you’re the only troll here.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Facts and logic, PJ4 – not sure such will work. :-) But, your last line is pure joy – a classic! You have risen to Bassett_Hound and MamaBear status – so high up there that we mortals on the ground can barely make you out! Not sure which one it was, Bassett_Hound I think, but, by my score “Hobby Lobby Bitchin’ Stitchers” or something like that, is still No. 1 on the charts. I had to buy a new monitor after that one – well worth it – I laughed so hard.

          • PJ4

            Thank you dear

            This guy’s a joke
            I love how he thinks he’s so clever
            Hahahahaha

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            I got that one above wrong, I think: it should be “Hobby Lobby Stichin’ Bitches.” I apologize for the error – Bassett _Hound is far more clever than I remembered. I think I was reluctant to write that, since I am a guy. :-)

          • MamaBear

            She comes up with some pretty amazing stuff, but that is certainly one of her best. I borrowed her “Hooterville” when some pro-abort troll was trying to claim birth control wasn’t available in small towns.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Green Acres. One of my all-time faves.

          • Basset_Hound

            “Hobby Lobby Stitchin’ Bitches” since most knitters, crochet-ers and needle pointers are ladies.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            OMG – yes, and we corrected it independently! Classic lines never go out of style!

          • Basset_Hound

            I might add, that they don’t have the “guy stuff’, the RC cars, airplane model kits, trains and rockets. Those come from Hobby TOWN….

            http://www.hobbytown.com/

            So the Stitchin’ Bitches go to Hobby LOBBY…
            The dudes who like to blow things up go to Hobby TOWN…

          • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

            Will women still be able to buy knitting needles at Hobby Lobby when abortion is outlawed?

          • Basset_Hound

            Yeah, and trolls will be able to stagger to their devices to post stupid non sequiters

          • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

            Hey, you were talking about Hobby Lobby, and for some reason, that question came to mind. {shrug}

          • Basset_Hound

            The thoroughly obvious answer to your thoroughly stupid question, is yes. Hobby Lobby would still continue to sell knitting needles when (God willing) abortion is outlawed, just as sewing and hobby stores sold knitting needles for generations before Roe.

          • LiveActionNewsIsCrap

            “The fact that the child in the womb is a human being matters. What if the child’s brain development is impaired? Should we give them less value?”

            I can only assume, as you refuse to use the technical term for an unborn human, you are referring to a child (Already born) with mental disabilities compared to a fetus(unborn). How could I not assume that seeing as you aren’t clear in your responses? If that isn’t what you mean then you need to understand there is a difference between impaired developing of the parts of the brain that make us “normal” is not same as one who’s brain is in the most basic form, as it is still being made. And you need to learn how to write properly, you are all over the place and your arguments lack substance and critical thought. Seriously, what is the use of a brain if you only use it to repeat what others say?

            Judges came to a consensus based to the constitution, which came to a consensus based on what a majority of our founders and their constituents viewed as acceptable.

            There you go throwing out fallacy after fallacy. I never said fetuses aren’t human, but then again, that doesn’t matter to you. Because I am the “evil one”. I know your type, it is useless for me to debate you, it will not help me improve at all. Goodbye.

          • PJ4

            Haha
            I’m not sure anything would help you improve save a lobotomy
            Brian function is irrelevant.
            The child in the womb is a human being.

            However, there you go with you fallacies
            I never said you were the “evil one”…that’s just you ASSuming again.
            But I do know your type
            Same old crap…different day
            You’ve presented nothing that other pro aborts haven’t already spewed
            Good luck to you
            Oh and maybe try being less invective

          • PJ4

            Judges came to a consensus based to the constitution, which came to a consensus based on what a majority of our founders and their constituents viewed as acceptable.

            The constitution makes no mention of the right to kill ones offspring

          • Basset_Hound

            Even Bob Woodward said that this was an act of “raw judicial power”. If he was a conservative, than I’m a water buffalo!

          • Dawn Kinsey-Jeffers

            You can stop trying to “explain” that, because your argument is complete bullshit. No matter how much you try to validate the reason for murder, you can’t. I can’t believe you could be so empty minded and empty hearted.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            You write: “You insult my intelligence, yet can’t construct a proper sentence ” Please do tell me where my sentences are grammatically incorrect. I grew up the son of an English teacher and was grading her high school students’ grammar while still in the 7th grade. I scored high enough on my ACT to not have to take a single English course in college – and I am an engineer! I take my grammar (and Gramma :-)) seriously. Please provide examples, as opposed to making unsubstantiated assertions.

            You didn’t understand my first question: “Do human beings have intrinsic moral value?” means “are human beings valuable in and of themselves and not as a means to an end?” And, as others have explained to you, a zygote or fetus IS a distinct human individual. Human Biology 101.
            Otherwise, I see you waffling. The reason that you are uncomfortable saying that abortion is a right is because you should be: you know full well that it is killing an innocent human being. Perhaps you just want all the sex without consequences that you can get?!? God bless you, LiveActionNewsIsAwesome!

          • Basset_Hound

            I WILL BACK YOU UP!!

            Just so you know, World, I pick up pocket change in the spring working for Pearson Educational Measurement. They’re the company that’s contracted to score standardized tests for several states. One of my favorite projects is scoring written narratives for Texas (my home state). I will tell you that any 4th grader who wrote crap like our little bridge troll would receive a 1…Very Limited Writing Performance which means the kid will either have to go to summer school or not pass to the 5th grade.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Haha. Maybe we are being too hard on the vocabulary-challenged?!? :-) Remember the days when movies actually had interesting dialogue with great vocabulary? It’s the f-bomb everywhere, it seems like nowadays. Some of those late black and white movies, and even a lot of the stuff into the 60’s had such clever conversation. North by Northwest, even war movies like the Great Escape. How about Sound of Music?!? Is that romantic song in the gazebo with Julie Andrews and Christopher Plummer not one of the best ever – not to mention, it has great theology if one listens closely?

          • Basset_Hound

            Ah, yes. When the crew of the Enterprise had to journey back to 20th century San Francisco in Star Trek IV, Spock noticed that the denizens were using “colorful metaphors”.

          • MamaBear

            Love how Spock phrased things, so understated, but true.

          • Basset_Hound

            And loved how Spock gave a much appreciated Vulcan pinch to the rude punk on the bus with the loud boom box.

          • Basset_Hound

            Nope. If someone staggers to his keyboard to play “Grammar Cop”, they had better well walk the walk as well as talk the talk.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            He is a sweetheart deep down though. What a rough life, my heart goes out to him. He had an abusive father and he sees abortion as a way for others to avoid the same kind of dad he had. I had an abusive father too, but I never got the physical end of it. I tried to explain to him that we aren’t God and don’t have a crystal ball to be able to see future suffering and that everyone suffers – to one degree or another – anyway. I had another lady, who is a cutter – I have seen the slashes on her arms, and she said that she wished she had been aborted. Talk about heartbreaking! :-(

          • Basset_Hound

            Just curious….have you ever read Chronicles of Narnia.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            That has been on my list of things to read forever! I am a he CS Lewis fan – HUGE. I have much of his library here, including some of the children’s books too. Why do you say this?

          • Basset_Hound

            It’s complicated. I can’t do the description justice at 10:30 p.m. Maybe MamaBear can fill in the details but there’s a scenario in the seventh book “The Last Battle” where a group of dwarves are trapped by their own bitterness, and refuse to come out.

            As for the Bridge Troll, I fear that he is already perpetrating the same kind of cruelty on others that his dad heaped on him.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Good enough for me! I found the boxed set my kids had when they were growing up. The online advice was to read them in the order that they were published, not the chronological order, with Lion, Witch, Wardrobe first. Do you concur?

          • Basset_Hound

            I think there’s something that can be said for that, at least for your first time through.

          • PJ4

            No no!!! Read them in chronological order!!
            I wish I had.
            Trust me.
            I also wish I had read the Hobbit before the entire LOTR…

          • Basset_Hound

            PJ, World and MamaBear….

            You DO realize that Tolkein and Lewis were close friends and colleagues at Oxford University. They often bounced ideas off of each other. Google The Inklings….

          • MamaBear

            It has recently came to light that Lewis nominated Tolkien for the Nobel Prize in Literature in 1961.
            According to Lewis stepson, Douglas Gresham, shortly before Lewis died, Tolkien told him that if he ever needed anything to come to him and his home was always open to him.
            Tolkien is believed to have been instrumental in Lewis turning from atheism to Christianity.

          • MamaBear

            I originally read them in order they were published and later reread them in chronological order. There are plusses both ways. If you go chronological, The Magician’s Nephew is first.
            BTW, PJ, I did read the Hobbit before LOTR. I wish they had done the Hobbit first with the movies.
            I think the best “commentary” I’ve ever seen on Revelation is The Last Battle.

          • Basset_Hound

            And I wish Peter Jackson wouldn’t have expanded The Hobbit into three movies by putting in all that jumbled, extraneous crap. I also wish that he would have “fleshed out” his stories in The Silmarillion.

          • disqus_uT17Jgr4Hl

            Ethics and morality, two tenets that are learned responses, are not automatically in the zygote in our mitochondrial DNA. Ethics and morality come from “somewhere,” and dare I say, “Someone.”
            A good friend of mine is a veterinarian, has a second doctorate in clinical psychology, and a master’s in comparative faith. He stated that science has discovered what parts of the brain govern memory, sight, hearing, taste, smell, autonomic neural functions…but it has NOT determined or discovered “the commander,” “the soul,” that spark that enlivens and enriches us with those tenets of ethics and morality.
            Were it not for the Source of ethics and morality, I would surely fear the human race bereft of such guidance in their attempts at stewardship. Left to only our experience, intellect, and wisdom without any over-arching governance or guidance, there is left only the avarice of man.
            Without faith in anything or Any One besides ourselves, we see the results in an increasingly hostile, secular society, and it grieves me.

          • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

            Maybe we learned morals and ethics from rats? Rats have been observed to stop taking food rewards when they learn that another rat suffers an electric shock because they pressed the food button.

      • CarlyJoy

        Can’t feel pain? they have beating hearts. they cringe. they suck their thumbs! what makes you think they can’t feel pain?

        • LiveActionNewsIsCrap

          The fact that the part of the brain which registers pain isn’t really developed yet. That could give some a clue.

          • MamaBear

            Surgeons doing prenatal surgery (within uterus) use anesthesia on fetuses as early as 18 weeks because they appear to be reacting in pain. NICU nurses report that preemies as early as 24 weeks flinch when stuck with needles. I think I would trust the judgment of medical men and women who actually have experience with unborn and early born babies over the theories of those who study brain development.
            At one time they did surgery on newborns because of the theory that their brains were not developed enough to feel pain, despite the fact that newborns certainly reacted as someone feeling pain.

          • LiveActionNewsIsCrap

            Reflex =/= pain

            Muscle spasms =/= pain

            Please, for over a hundred years (up until the 1990’s) doctors believed babies (ones that are actually born) could not feel pain and were operated on without anesthesia. So don’t give me that BS about “I trust the med…”

            I trust neurologists, you know, those who study the brain and its development.

          • MamaBear

            Glad you trust them. I wonder if it is the same ones who claim a certain anesthesia used for short operations like putting in chemo ports, has you in a state of “light unconsciousness” and it is virtually “impossible” to be conscious? Enough “rare” patients have complained they were awake, but unable to respond, that thank God they also use local anesthesia with it these days. Since I know a number of other cancer patients, I can tell you that reaction is NOT rare at all!
            If you can feel without even being able to respond, I think it is only safe to assume if someone, anyone, is responding as if in pain, even a 20 week fetus, you better allow for the possibility that they are feeling pain.
            BTW, do you know how they finally decided with newborns it was not just reflexes and muscle spasms? It has to do with less visible signs of pain, such as release of certain stress hormones and other physiological signs of stress, many of which would be hard to measure on a fetus still in the womb. At least one study in the late 90s showed long term differences in reaction to pain between 6 month infants exposed to unusual amounts of pain as newborns and those not exposed to pain.

          • Kellyruss

            20 weeks they feel pain.

    • AMEN to that!

    • Those were exactly my thoughts. But I’m not so sure he differentiates.

  • Kaitlin

    That was intense. Then again, you can’t unsee that… And for the rest of your life, you will associate this video with abortion, don’t know if this is the best step towards ending abortion either way though…

  • Petrichor

    That top video.
    Can I just be honest?
    I’ve seen graphic abortion images. They always make me angry as well as invoking some level of sorrow.
    But is video made me feel something emtirely new.
    I have never been so enraged about anything. How dare someone shred something that is so clearly a human? How DARE someone challenge the sanctity of human life?
    This “Created Equal” organization has surely been successful in my case. My stance on abortion is now even more severe; it is not to be tolerated, to be silenced, it is to be stopped forever. The more people see this video, the better. People need to stop complaining about how disturbing it is, because it should be.
    Gah.

  • finishstrongdoc

    If we’re indifferent to abortion, it’s because, I believe, we want to be. Anyone who is wanting to see graphic abortion films can see them, and they won’t have to go father that where they are sitting right now to see them. From there, you can decide what to do when the graphic films are shown in public.

    I personally wouldn’t get upset at those who show graphic abortion films in public. Where have we as a people forced those films to be shown? Have we put them in appropriate places for the appropriate people to see? Have we put them in high school classrooms? Have we put them in seminars at gatherings of medical professionals? Have we put them in waiting rooms at abortionists’ practices? The first place many people have seen these graphic abortion films is when they saw them in public spaces. To me, that says something. It says, “cover up” to me.

    “America will not reject abortion until America sees abortion.”
    ~Father Frank Pavone, Priests for Life~

    • IHateYourBS

      If we’re indifferent to slaughter, it’s because, I believe, we want to be. Anyone who is wanting to see graphic slaughterhouse videos can see them, and they won’t have to go farther that where they are sitting right now to see them. From there, you can decide what to do when the graphic films are shown in public.

      I personally wouldn’t get upset at those who show graphic slaughterhouse videos in public. Where have we, as a people, forced those films to be shown? Have we put them in appropriate places for the appropriate people to see? Have we put them in high school classrooms? Have we put them in seminars at gatherings of law makers? Have we put them in rooms in the meat department at the store? The first place many people have seen these graphic videos of slaughterhouses/massive meat farms is when they saw them in public spaces. To me, that says something. It says, “cover up”.

      See how stupid your agrument is when anything else is put in its place? If you really think abortion is wrong, yet go and buy factory farmed livestock (that is actually alive at the time, has thoughts and feelings, can feel pain, conscience of others around them, etc..) that gets mistreated/butchered everyday, then you are a retarded hypocrite. Same goes from those who put pets down for no good reason, or those who donate to shelters/organizations that kill pets that are not adopted.

      Really, we put down all sorts of animals when we feel it is necessary. Be it: aggression, pain, not able to support them, disabilities, old age, etc. Yet, if it is suggested that a human can’t support another human, (or don’t want to due to rape, incest, severe disablities) and/or wants to prevent its suffering, and wants to get rid of it humanely (as fetus can’t feel pain at this point, it is humane) they are aweful and disgusting people? The same people, if they decieded to do this to another living being instead of a human, you wouldn’t even get a confused or concerned look from you, let alone you telling them they’re terrible people and wrong.

      Shit like that makes it where someone who is on the fence about abortion completely turns them off of your side. I say this from personal experince.

      • tired of disrespect for others

        Maybe your mom should have aborted you and let you see first hand if it hurt or not. No one really know if it hurts them. I for one do not believe that it doesn’t. And either way does not matter!! It is a child with a soul. Animals do not have souls and although I don’t agree with mis treating animals or for the dieing for no reason, they were put here for a purpose and that was to feed each other and humans. It is the circle of life. Murder of a human being is not!!!

        • IHateYourBS

          I see logic is not your strong suit. Science proves fetus brains are not developed enough to be able to process that type of information.

          “No one really know if it hurts them. I for one do not believe that it doesn’t.”
          -Yes, we do know, we can look at fetus’s brain to tell when the hypothalamus is fully developed enough to sense pain. The problem with your kind is you do not accept facts unless they are in your favor.

          So a fetus has a soul, but the raccoon you ran over last year doesn’t? What is your reasoning behind this? The bible doesn’t count as it has no basis in fact.

          I don’t follow the “put here for a reason” reasoning. So based on your logic, if I were to kill an animal fetus, it is just the circle of life, but if I do it to a human fetus, it is wrong? What excludes humans from this circle of life? Why would an all powerful god allows only those that happen to be human to have souls? What would make humans special in god’s eye? Where do you get this crap from?

      • Basset_Hound

        Dude, why don’t you seek professional help to deal with your anger issues instead of spewing out hate-filled rants on the Internet. I feel genuine sympathy for anyone who has to interact with you on an extended basis.

        • LiveActionNewsIsCrap

          I stated those who are this hypocritical are slow in the head, and called his logic stupid. I won’t call that hate-filled. And if you thought that was bad, you probably should stay off of the internet and stay in your house.

          Haha, what am I saying? You have over 6000 comments. Of course you don’t leave your house, or this site. You really should seek help for that. I am legitimately concerned for you, my cousin is the same way, and he is really messed up now. He’s awesome online, but can’t really interact with people face to face . I hope you have Jesus’s blessing, may he save you.

          • PJ4

            Maybe her comments are an accumulation of a few years spaced out.
            Maybe she has a smart phone and while she’s getting her hair or her nails or waxing done she’s making a comment.
            Maybe she’s at the mall in the food court or on a break at work.
            Maybe she’s driving and dictating to her smart phone what to say.

            You judging her based on your cousin says to me that you don’t have a very good grasp on reality.
            There’s this thing called technology that allows us to incorporate commenting while doing other things at the same time.
            Try it some time.
            Or maybe your brain just isn’t developed well enough to multi-taks?
            Sucks to be you.

          • Basset_Hound

            Thanks PJ.

            You’re right. 6000+ comments are spaced out over a period of about four years.

            My discus account is my own. My husband is dyslexic and hates to write. My daughter doesn’t have time to make internet comments.

            I’m a pretty fast typist, and can slam out about 60 wpm on a good day, with the wind at my back. Unfortunately, I don’t have a limo, I don’t go anyplace as fancy as to a high dollar awards ceremony.

          • LiveActionNewsIsCrap

            A few years, huh? That varies a lot, based on the numbers you use. If I commented on Disqus 3 times a day, everyday, all year around, it would still take me over 5 and a half years to get over 6000. I couldn’t imagine commenting on forums that much, but I wouldn’t put it past some that I have met. And the fact you have over 5000 tells me a lot about you, too. I hope you find help for you addiction, it can be as dangerious as other addictions. I have seen it first hand, it’s not pretty. I hope you overcome this aswell.

            I could see your point if they were a random somebody at a restaurant on their computer and I made that comment, by when faced with such staggering levels of use, it’s a little mind boggling, and I am going to equate that with other extremes I have experienced which may be similar. It’s human nature.

            Is there really that much to say? I guess if you crave a ton of social interact I could sort of understand, but still, wow.

            I try not to do personal attacks on others, so know I wont let this argument degrade to that point, darlin’.
            Your personal attacks mean nothing, but I will not respond with more insults.

          • PJ4

            It averages to about 4-5 comments a day

            I hope you find help for your superiority complex and your overt narcissisism as it can lead to dangerous behavior

            Lol, you’ve done nothing but insult everyone one here and then you say you won’t allow the conversation to degrade
            Hahahaha
            Classic

          • LiveActionNewsIsCrap

            It’s one thing to throw a snarky statement back into someone’s face, but it is a little different than activitly degrading someone with personal attacks because they don’t agree with you.
            FYI: the Jesus thing was a “taste of your own medicine” sort of thing, I just didn’t do it to the right person.

            Edit: 4-5 comments a day, every day, for 4 years. Don’t try and take away from the wow.

          • PJ4

            Actually you’ve been quite denigrating
            I’m just treating you the way you’ve been treating everyone else
            Don’t like looking in the mirror?
            Not my problem

            And yes. You assume too much

          • MamaBear

            And there may be numerous comments, many short, in one conversation, and none on a number of other days. Average does not mean everyday.

          • PJ4

            Exactly!

      • PJ4

        Yet, if it is suggested that a human can’t support another human, (or don’t want to due to rape, incest, severe disablities) and/or wants to prevent its suffering, and wants to get rid of it humanely (as fetus can’t feel pain at this point, it is humane) they are aweful and disgusting people?

        So wait… are you saying it’s ok to kill another human as long as they don’t feel pain? Really?
        If you don’t understand the difference between an human child in it’s particular stage of development and say a cow… you have bigger issues than just the rage you’ve been displaying all over this page.

        Who says that pro life people go buy factory farmed livestock? I certainly don’t.
        You seem to make a lot of assumptions about people you don’t know.
        Why?

        • Basset_Hound

          “Who says that pro life people go buy factory farmed livestock? I certainly don’t.”

          Can’t add anything to your excellent post except to add….

          “Who says that pro life people can’t be farmers or ranchers, as well”.

          • Suzan D Reed

            How is Pro-life people being farmers or ranchers relevant at all?

          • Basset_Hound

            You’re right, Suzan. It’s not relevant, at least not to most people! But what can you say to a bitter, angry troll who accuses those of us who eat meat of being hypocrites for opposing abortion.

          • LiveActionNewsIsCrap

            That is part of my point on the hypocrisy. You have farmers and ranchers sending millions of other animals to their death every year, on top of the terrible conditions the animals face in a lot of farms. Then they go and condemn (hypothetical)Sally who wants an abortion so she doesn’t have to raise a rape child, or incest, or whatever reason she feels is okay. She would extinguish one potential life, while the farmers and ranchers are slaughtering millions of actual living animals.

          • Basset_Hound

            Someone who proclaims his intellectual superiority doesn’t know the difference between a human being and a farm animal raised for food. As you put it, “I can’t take away from the wow”.

        • LiveActionNewsIsCrap

          You are grossly oversimplifying a very complex situation, are you a politician? It isn’t just that they aren’t capable of feeling pain, to point and say that is the only reason is completely missing the point of the whole argument.

          We all have anecdotal evidence one way, or the other. But it is well known the meat industry does well in this heavy christian nation.

          Also, you say I assume?

          “Maybe she has a smart phone and while she’s getting her hair or her nails or waxing done she’s making a comment.
          Maybe she only comments after a particular intense orgasm or ejaculation
          Maybe she’s in a limo on the way to the Daytime Emmys or the ASCAP awards and she and her husband are commenting together
          Maybe she’s at the mall in the food court or on a break at work.
          Maybe she’s driving and dictating to her smart phone what to say.
          Maybe she’s waiting in the parking lot of the school for her kids to come out.
          Maybe her kids or her husband share her disqus account and make comments too.
          Maybe while she’s studying she finds time to write in a comment or two.
          Maybe she has insomnia and stays up after the family is asleep and her day is done to write comments. ”

          • PJ4

            the meat industry does well in this heavily Christian nation

            Citation?

            Oh and
            1. I happen to know Basset
            2. I was also talking about myself
            3. There’s a difference in assuming and just saying maybe

      • finishstrongdoc

        I personally think that if it weren’t for the pro life movement keeping the humanity of the unborn before the attention of the general public, by now we’d be seeing canned baby in supermarkets right next to the canned hams, and no one would bat an eye.

        You’re not “on the fence” about abortion as much as you think you are. In my humble opinion, you are suffering from having no excuse for the taking of a human life, so you have convinced yourself by some strange sophistry that animals and humans are equal. Your mindset would not have protected animals, it would have put the vulnerable and powerless human beings more in jeopardy to the strong, brutal and powerful.

        • LiveActionNewsIsCrap

          Wow, what the heck is that first part about? Or are you serious? If not, you got me good.

          • finishstrongdoc

            You apparently haven’t heard about the very lucrative business of selling baby parts for research. It’s just a short jump in the thought process of entrepreneurs’ thinking to expand the market, push the envelope of the human imagination just a little further. Profit is profit. Marketing is marketing.

            “Imagination rules the world.”
            ~Napoleon Bonaparte~

    • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

      I’ve seen abortion. I’ve assisted in the performance of abortions. I’ve performed abortions. I’ve treated patients in the aftermath of botched illegal abortions. Nothing has gotten me past the revulsion I feel at the notion of stripping women of the right to maintain the integrity of their own bodies because someone else has decided her rights are inferior to and must be subordinated to those of a being that may not survive until birth anyway.

      • finishstrongdoc

        Since Roe v. Wade, over 400 women have died from botched legal abortions. I notice you don’t prefix your name with “Dr.” If you’re not a doctor, and you’ve performed abortions, you are performing abortions illegally. How many abortions have you botched? How many women have you killed?

        Are you familiar with the studies linking abortion with breast cancer? How many women die as a result of breast cancer linked to abortion? The women who survive abortions “may not survive anyway” because of the abortion. Does that not make you feel revulsion at the “loss of bodily integrity” of the women who die from cancer as a result of abortion? How do you treat a dead body?

        We’re all going to die some day. Medicine’s purpose is to restore health, to put off death, not kill people. At the Nuremberg Trials for Nazi Doctors, the verdict was “The purpose of medicine is the curing of the patient, not the advancement of medicine.” Abortion is not a disease, and rather than curing a disease, you are creating patients for the cancer ward while killing unborn humans. You are responsible for advancing medicine backwards, towards Barbarism.

        Have you been involved in covering up a botched abortion? Are you aware of the lucrative trade in baby parts? Have you ever done an abortion and not scrubbed up, and went on to the next abortion, treating women like cows in a slaughterhouse? Are you familiar with lampshades made from the skin of Nazi victims of extermination in the gas chambers?

        • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

          How many women have died as a result of attempting to carry a pregnancy to term birth since Roe v Wade? In 2013 alone, about 800 women died giving birth – that’s over 30,000 since Roe v Wade. Let’s see …. 400 vs 30,000 – which do you think is riskier?

          • Cynical_Meliorist

            What you’re not mentioning/don’t know is that most of the women dying in childbirth were due to already present conditions, including ones that should/would/could have ended their lives years beforehand.

            http://www.washingtonpost[dot]com/local/maternal-deaths-in-childbirth-rise-in-the-us/2014/05/02/abf7df96-d229-11e3-9e25-188ebe1fa93b_story.html

            From the article:
            “Equally significant is an increase in the number of pregnant women who have diseases that contribute to a higher-risk pregnancy, such as hypertension and diabetes, said Kassebaum. He said there also has been an increase in mothers whose pregnancies are riskier because of conditions like heart or neurological diseases who might have died in an earlier era but who now are surviving into adulthood.”

            You’ll also notice at the end, it states that the statistics for death and why….another important factor that hand-wringers aren’t going to like:

            “In the world as a whole, fully half the maternal deaths happen more than 24 hours after childbirth — up to a year later. It’s a little higher in the United States, 55 percent.

            “Kassebaum said that is because of improved American techniques for treating conditions that cause maternal deaths during childbirth itself, such as obstructed labor and hemorraging. The Centers for Disease Control lists ardiovascular disease and infections as the conditions with the highest maternity mortality rates, and anesthesia complications as the lowest.”

            We can agree that any death is a bad thing, but you’re trying to link things together in a manner inconsistent with the facts.

          • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

            The CDC calculates maternal death rates as within 42 days of the end of the pregnancy. Are you suggesting that people shouldn’t avoid risks enhanced by their existing health conditions?

          • Cynical_Meliorist

            “The CDC calculates maternal death rates as within 42 days of the end of the pregnancy. Are you suggesting that people shouldn’t avoid risks enhanced by their existing health conditions? ”

            That’s all well and good, but clearly you’re missing a point I made with the numbers, or the article itself. This is further evidenced by the silly question you post at the end of your reply. Who would advocate for people to do things which negatively affect their health? Clearly, that’s not what has been said here. Just in case it’s unclear…If someone has a pre-existing condition, such as a heart condition or a neurological disorder, and it’s known to them and can cause a fatality (of which a pregnancy can complicate or exaserbate), then they’d likely do well to take care of their health and not get pregnant (at all, if that’s the case). It makes me want to ask something you’ll see as silly, but i’ll do it anyway. Are you really suggesting that someone with health conditions that could kill them still screw around and possibly get pregnant, thereby tempting fate?

            (You’re not, I don’t think…but notice the context.)

            The study….as the article itself points out…tracks up to a year. The fact that the CDC tracks 42 days is great. It’s not, however, the only government, medical, or social agency which does track such stats, and it’s not the only one that other agencies base their protocols and publications over. In this case, either you didn’t understand the connotation, or you’re trying to throw in a mix of cherry picking AND appealing to specific authority at the same time.

      • finishstrongdoc

        I notice you don’t prefix your name with “Dr.” How can you perform abortions if you’re not a doctor?

        • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

          You’d be amazed at the things that have happened under the radar at US military hospitals. As a Clinical Specialist, I did all of those while working with and under the direct supervision of an ob-gyn specialist M.D. It was no different from what an intern does during training. All appropriate scrubbing, etc. was performed in EVERY case.

          No woman was maimed or died as a result of the abortions we performed. We were unable to save the life of one of the victims of a botched illegal abortion because the infection had already resulted in organ failure too severe to recover from when she arrived at the E.R.

          As long as you want to bring up the link to increased risk of breast cancer (which the studies I’ve seen didn’t reveal the data breakdown from early term abortions – an omission that suggests an anti-abortion bias may have been present), let’s not forget that a woman is also 14 times more likely to suffer permanent health consequences, including death, while attempting to carry to term delivery than she is from an abortion. In other words, you don’t get to limit the discussion to the risks you want to talk about and ignore the ones you don’t want to mention because they weaken or destroy your argument.

          According to Godwin’s Law, the first person to mention Hitler or Nazis is considered to have conceded an Internet debate.

          • finishstrongdoc

            Godwin’s Law and Political Correctness are two sides of the same “Progressive” ( Socialist ) coin. The only thing we’ll ever learn from Nazi history is that we’ll never learn from Nazi history if Nazi history is being repeated and “Political Correctness” demands that the horrors of Nazism being repeated never be spoken of.

            We have what’s called “Freedom of Speech” in this country, unless we’re under some sort of governmental punishment for speaking the truth now. When someone’s acting like a Nazi and is losing an Internet debate, and they’re advised not to act like a Nazi, they invoke “Godwin’s Law” and thinks this settles the debate. It doesn’t.

            The verdict at the Nuremberg Trials for Nazi Doctors was: “The purpose of medicine is the curing of the patient, not the advancement of medicine.” Pregnancy isn’t a disease and it doesn’t need curing. Women die or have health complications from pregnancy. Should that mean that women should never get pregnant? Your comparison of complications and/or death from pregnancy to elective abortion is ludicrous. Why would the effects of abortion on breast cancer studies include the mortality caused by other results from pregnancy? That makes no sense whatsoever. The studies were trying to find cause and effect, and they did.

            If women stopped getting abortions, the breast cancer rate would go down. Medicine advises people of health risks all the time. Have you ever advised a woman that having an abortion elevates her risk of getting breast cancer, sometimes 500%? No? Why not? Did you consider that it would be giving advice to someone who wasn’t worthy to have that advice? Why did you think that?

          • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

            As if conservatives don’t have their own version of “political correctness” – every time I hear a doctrinaire conservative sneer those words at someone who has a different view, it’s hard not to just laugh at the hypocrisy.

            Comparing what was said at the Nuremberg trials about the medical experimentation under the Nazi regime with abortion is what’s call a “false equivalency” – in simple terms, a logical fallacy that proves nothing.

            I don’t know of anyone who suggests that women should never get pregnant. The entire premise of the pro-choice camp is that it’s her choice to make whether or not to take that risk.

            If woman postpone their abortions until 32+ weeks of gestation, it would have the same effect on breast cancer risk as not having an abortion. It would have been better if the study had posted results for abortions in 2 week intervals starting at 4 weeks rather then lumping the <29 weeks into one heap. For all either of us know, there could even be a favorable impact on breast cancer risk in early term abortions.

          • finishstrongdoc

            You didn’t answer the question. This shows lack of moral courage. Your peers’ enthusiasm for abortion shouldn’t be a factor in denying women their right to choose abortion with informed consent.

            Just as it took World War II to stop Hitler, who hated non-Germans, it will take a complete change of heart for pro-aborts to stop hating the unborn. You can’t kill people unless somewhere someone is sold on the idea that some people aren’t persons.

            Hitler would never have allowed publication of data that diminished Goebbels’ propaganda about the Jews and non-Germans. The Culture of Death uses ridicule, dissembling and lies to deny the truth about abortion.

            The fact that most people are shocked when they see public displays about abortion compares to the horror that German citizens had when the truth about Nazi concentration camps was fully exposed to the German public.

            Saying abortion may have a positive effect on a woman’s health is about as ridiculous a statement as “All Jews are a health risk to Germans.” Extermination of Jews and other non-German’s started with the extermination of the mentally ill under the Nazi’s “T-4 Program” by medical professionals.

            Women should be fully informed of the existence of the human person in their womb. It is a lie from the pit of hell that humans, to be given value, must be given that value by medical professionals. You are not competent to make that judgment.

          • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

            Which question did I not answer?

            Regardless of your belief system, 1) there is almost no such thing as a “pro-abort” and 2) those of us who are pro-choice (who are by definition, decidedly NOT “pro-abort”) do not “hate the unborn”.

            What I said was that because the studies about abortion and breast cancer risk do not break it down below “<29 weeks", neither you nor I can conclude anything about early term abortions from their report and that it's entirely possible that if they did, we might see a time frame that actually favors abortion vis-a-vis breast cancer risk.

            Although I have my personal thoughts about who I would prefer not have children, I don't have the arrogance to suggest that it should be made public policy.

            Your notion that "the whole prospect of abortion is based on…." is a figment of your imagination. Most people who seek abortions don't even know who or what the alleged ideology of Margaret Sanger was – nor do they dare. Mostly they know that they don't want to have a child now.

          • finishstrongdoc

            Have you ever heard of an abortionist informing a woman that if she has an abortion before her first birth that she is at a 500% increased risk of getting breast cancer? Of course you haven’t. Abortion is a business. Those who do abortions don’t inform women of this risk, those who don’t do abortions know this statistical risk, and therefore they don’t do abortions.

            Why do you think abortionists all over the country are being denied hospital privileges? Because the medical profession knows the causal links between abortion and breast cancer are real. They haven’t spoken out with moral courage, but denying hospital privileges speaks volumes.

            Plenty of women have taken the opportunity to inform themselves of the eugenics source of abortion on demand. Women of courage don’t deny that evil exists, and act according to strong moral conviction. You denigrate women by saying Sanger’s influence on the abortion industry is not known.

            Your indifference to sterilization programs is noted. It goes with the territory. The pattern is followed: allow abortion, then initiate secret sterilization programs. All out or all in when it comes to sin.

          • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

            Have you ever heard a pro-life person tell a woman she has a 1400% greater risk of dying withing the next 9 months if she tries to carry a pregnancy to term? Those who oppose abortion don’t inform women of this risk.

            You’re asking the wrong guy why abortionist don’t generally have hospital privileges. I’m very familiar with why that doesn’t happen because of where my wife works – in the management of the largest healthcare system in the Houston area – first and entirely, those docs don’t generate enough admissions to mess with the crap associated with granting them admitting privileges.

            I don’t care how may woman have engaged in your imaginary motivational theories about Margaret Sanger and that whole meme. If you mentioned that to 98% of woman seeking abortions today, the response would be, “Who? What?” It’s not denigrating women to say that they aren’t familiar with that. Your conspiracy theories about allowing abortions leading to “secret sterilization programs” is nutcake material. “All out or all in when it comes to sin.”? Get help – please. You’re exhibiting multiple signs of mental pathology.

          • finishstrongdoc

            First guy: “Why is there so much ignorance and indifference today?”
            Second guy: “I don’t know and I don’t care.”

            The pathology of mass delusion is well-documented. Recall the mass delusion of the German people under Hitler, and a strong case can be made that it is not impossible to pass off a Big Lie, and have catastrophic cultural and worldwide consequences for mass delusion.

            When punishments for non-conformity are simply name-calling, there is no real moral or physical risk involved. However, the veiled threats coming from our Central Government against persons of faith (IRS investigations, requests for sermon notes by Houston’s lesbian mayor, etc) shows the potential for great danger to not just individuals but also to our Constitution, the highest law of the land.

            The fear-mongering concerning carrying pregnancies to term makes you look like the fanatic. The unborn are no one’s enemy, and the risks of pregnancy can be avoided by anyone who doesn’t want to risk losing their life during pregnancy simply by avoiding sexual intercourse.

            There have been secret sterilization programs in the past which have been exposed. I pity those who are blind to the eugenicist history behind the Population Control efforts of elitists such as Bill Gates, but those who dismiss these efforts because their jobs depend on it are those most to be pitied.
            http://www.naturalnews.com/047728_depopulation_sterilization_drug_tetanus_shot.html

          • MamaBear

            The victims of sterilization programs on our Native American reservations had not heard of Sanger either, but programs she inspired had devastating effects on the tribes. Some tribes claimed over 40% of their women of childbearing age were sterilized through coercion or trickery. Women died because they feared to use “white man’s medicine.” In many places, this actually lasted into the 1970s.

          • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

            I can’t argue one way or the other today with any certainty either, but as you say, there’s no denying that the USA has some sordid stories about sterilization programs and, doubtless, abortion too in our history. When I say I’m pro-choice, that means I oppose both forced abortions and attempts to ban them.

          • Cynical_Meliorist

            I’m going to interject here.

            “Regardless of your belief system, 1) there is almost no such thing as a “pro-abort” and 2) those of us who are pro-choice (who are by definition, decidedly NOT “pro-abort”) do not “hate the unborn”

            1. Actually, when you see that term, it denotes (you know, those silly memes you keep talking about and all!) a person who advocates that abortion should be legal across the board and without restriction. As a person who admits they’ve performed them (but argues about simple diagnostics…..go figure?), and your lack of any restriction in the matter whatsoever, then it could be a correct notation.

            2. Since #1 is likely the case, and because you can’t even admit (or, maybe didnt know?) that a human fetus in a human being is also human (to be fair, you actually refuse to acknowledge it in some places, glass over it in others…), then your claim merits a bit of review. Maybe *hate* is too strong of a word…but you’re certainly not going to do anyone a favor in any respect to the subject matter either.

            “Most people who seek abortions don’t even know who or what the alleged ideology of Margaret Sanger was – nor do they care.”

            Can we just wholesale ignore history and facts? That the very organization that Sanger, and her philosophy, created is the very group that performs more abortions than anyone else? Sure, let’s tuck those facts away, and let people be ignorant of history. That’s worked out swimmingly before, right?

            “Mostly they know that they don’t want to have a child now.”

            And can’t rely on the mainstream abortion crowd to give them an honest, much less straight, answer about any alternatives. Just 1, am i right?

          • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

            Ignoring history is one thing – claiming some proof based on false equivalency is still a fallacy. I can’t speak for all, but the two PP clinics I’ve volunteered at both made mention of all of the alternatives, and it was policy to not advocate for any of them. Anyone who counseled with an agenda was counseled to stop attempting to pressure patients one way or the other or they would be let go – 2 that I know of were – 1 who pushed abortion and 1 who pushed adoption. Patients who said they wanted to consider adoption were provided lists of local agencies that handled them and in some cases, continued to receive their prenatal care at PP until they gave birth.

          • Cynical_Meliorist

            “Ignoring history is one thing….”

            Yes, it is…and yet, you don’t seem to have a real problem with it being the case so far. You’ve not advocated that people learn about it, and you’re against anyone being given facts that might sway them against the decision to abort. Seems kind of one sided to me.

            “claiming some proof based on false equivalency is still a fallacy.”

            Then you should have zero problems sourcing where my proof is doing that, and what fallacy it is…yet you do not. Please flesh that out a bit.

            “. I can’t speak for all, but the two PP clinics I’ve volunteered at both made mention of all of the alternatives, ”

            This is all well and good, but it’s anecdotal at best. When we bank this against the national conversation, then your location would be a massive exception, and not the rule. At the same time, my other points still stand. PP regularly, and publicly, promoted abortion and it’s practice. It routinely injects its opinion into the town square, into the courts, and into the media. It runs ads and has spokespersons who advocate for “safe, legal, and rare” abortions…though it’s never safe for at least 50% of the patients. at almost 100% of the time…and something happening over 1 million times a year hardly qualifies as rare, regardless of what imaginary stretches you care to use.

            OTOH, I see no public adoption drives. No CPC drives. No public postings about how they want to help expectant mothers. Nada.

            It’s blatantly obvious that they’re pushing one agenda. There’s nothing to falsely equivocate, in this case, when empirically this is the case.

          • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

            PP is pushing the agenda of having children when a woman plans to do so. That’s why 95% of their work is in female-specific health matters and preventing of unwanted pregnancy from happening in the first place.

            Before an abortion is done, the patient signs a consent form indicating that she’s received all the information she needed to make that decision. Where do you get off thinking you’re allowed to 2nd guess and attempt to change her mind her until she’s in the stirrups?

            Perhaps you’d prefer that they’d do “public adoption drives too. Unfortunately, there’s a limit to what they can fund and still accomplish their stated mission (check out their mission statement). They never tried to be all things that all people would like them to be – no one can be that.

          • MamaBear

            The lifetime risk for breast cancer in the US today is one out of every 8 women (about 12%). In the late 1960s, when my grandmother died of breast cancer, it was one in 20.
            Some of the things believed to be raising risks include, fewer children, having children later, less breast feeding, hormonal contraceptives, menopause hormone replacement therapy, hormones in meat and dairy, various chemicals including pesticides and food preservatives, and ABORTION.

          • Cynical_Meliorist

            And now, the truth of the matter comes out. I had a feeling this was the case, but…I didn’t want to say for sure. Thanks you for the validation.

            So, as a person who has done them, you’re going to defend your own position as amoral, or not specifically immoral…since this would clash with your aforementioned stay at the seminary. At this stage, when I read everything else now, it just comes across with a tone that drips of rationalization. It all makes perfect sense now.

            If what you did was wrong, and what others did was wrong, then you’d have to deal with it internally. An easy observation, and when coupled with the dancing on this page you’ve done, it paints an incredibly accurate picture.

            “According to Godwin’s Law, the first person to mention Hitler or Nazis is considered to have conceded an Internet debate.”

            Aaaaactually, that’s a corollary to Godwin’s Law, which is usually used in chat rooms and other internet meme sites when no one else is making a real argument, or that using a Nazi reference is meant to derail the conversation. It is not, however, actually GL.

            The actual Godwin’s Law is ” “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1”

            Usually, people see Godwin’s as a way to try and shut down a debate, but…I digress. You’re welcome!

          • MamaBear

            Having been raised in a military family, married a man who spent two enlistments in the military, I strongly doubt your statement.
            Abortions have never been allowed in military hospitals except for health or life of the mother due to federal regulation forbidding direct financing of abortions. Pro-abortionists have been complaining for years that if a military woman or female dependent was overseas, she had to fly back to the US for an abortion.
            Odd, none of the HS girls knew about that “service.” And as a young wife, I found out there was quite a shortage of OB/GYNs for maternity care. Our base supplied prenatal and GYN care for another base, and had only one OB/GYN, most services being provided by two nurse-midwives. I don’t think they had any time for any “non-authorized” procedures. If it happened where you were, it was an anomaly.

          • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

            I can’t say whether or not it was an anomaly – all I know for sure is that it happened at two of the hospitals I was stationed at during my hitch – a field unit in Viet Nam and one in the USA – did not, to my knowledge, at the one I was stationed at in Germany. Other than the victims of botched illegal abortions, the abortion cases didn’t walk in the front door asking for one. We had 2 ob’s at the US hospital, and I was told to never mention it in front of the other one or anyone else for that matter. They were done on mid and night shifts and weekends when all of the career military types were too important to have to work. I was shift leader at the E.D. /outpatient clinic. Overworked? Amen. The ob’s were always cross-eyed tired.

            I checked out several of the links posted about breast cancer risks. When one of them actually supported the claim of increased risk, although I thought the reporting of the data a bit vague and the reality might not support a conclusion of increased risk at all gestations < 29 weeks, I admitted that I had been in error.

            I used CDC data for maternal mortality and one of your allies' claim of "over 400 deaths from legal abortions since Roe",

          • PJ4

            Ah yes, the real reason why you must defend killing our offspring so vehemently.
            Yikes.
            You killed babies in the womb for a living and you expect us to believe anything you say?
            I mean that’s like asking us to believe Gosnell, or Jeffrey Dauhmer or Richard Ramirez et al.
            Of course you never believed babies in the womb to be human.
            Dauhmer didn’t believe his victims were human either… he had no reason to.

            This.
            Explains.
            Everything.

          • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

            The “real reason” I support choice is that I can’t think of anything
            that supersedes a woman’s right to the integrity of her person unless
            she willingly relinquishes it – and I do not consider having sex to be
            such a willing relinquishment. Even if a fetus is considered to be a human being, I still see the woman’s right to maintain the integrity of her person as superior to any claim by any other being, human or not, to occupy her body without her consent. Nor do I see having sex as constituting an implicit consent to that. If a woman did not intend to conceive and her primary method of birth control fails, I have no objection to her using a secondary means of obtaining her originally intended result – no pregnancy.

            Some pretty heinous people in history have supported forced breeding. It appears that you also support forced breeding. Why should I believe anything you say?

          • PJ4

            I don’t believe in forced breeding.
            I don’t believe in forced death either.
            You don’t have to believe anything I say.
            I’ve already presented my hard evidence.
            You have yet to present yours.
            I dare say you never can.
            You have your feeeeeelings Gary.
            All I have is science.

          • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

            Where is your “hard evidence” that the rights of a fetus are superior to the rights of a pregnant woman to the integrity of her person? You claim some sort of science behind that?

          • PJ4

            I never said they are superior
            I said they are equal.
            I claim science to define babies in the womb as human beings and non-parasites.
            Nothing more, nothing less.
            Nice straw man though.

          • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

            The rights of the fetus and those of a woman who doesn’t want to bear it are necessarily at odds. To force a woman against her will to support a right to life of a fetus inherently subordinates her rights to those of the fetus – there’s no rational way that can be called “equal”.

          • PJ4

            You sound like a white supremacist who objected to the civil rights movement
            I don’t expect you to realize that.. but.. I can always hope

          • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

            I’m not the one objecting to a woman being freed from involuntary servitude – you are.

          • PJ4

            I’m not objecting that at all.. I’m objecting to her killing her child when he or she is in the womb (or outside )

          • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

            Are you denying that, because you object to the fetus being killed, you want women to be forced to carry it to term delivery to prevent that?

          • PJ4

            Yes
            No one is forcing her to do anything

            Laws against rape and murder do not force rapists and murders to cull their apetites
            It just makes it harder for them to carry out their crimes

          • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

            Abortion is not a crime. Women who have abortions are not criminals.

          • PJ4

            Abortion isn’t a crime on the law books in the U.S.
            Doesn’t make it any less criminal
            Just like owning a slave wasn’t a crime, didn’t make slavery moral

          • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

            Isn’t it interesting how pressing a woman into involuntary servitude is somehow moral for those who object to abortion as immoral? I see competing interests. A woman has an interest in her person that predates any interest a fetus might try to claim later. As far as I’m concerned, she’s free to reject that claim and continue her life without the fetus.

          • PJ4

            As long as she doesn’t kill the child, sure

            And pregnancy is in no way involuntary servitude

          • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

            It is if the woman doesn’t want to be pregnant and someone forces her to remain so. Do you have another term that you’d prefer that doesn’t discount the woman’s preferences?

          • PJ4

            The mother had no right to kill her child Gary.
            There is no right to kill one’s offspring
            Mother and child are equally important
            But the strong have a duty to protect the weak
            Changing a woman’s heart and educating her in the humanity of the child in the womb is very important

  • naiher

    This is heartbreaking to see but until the world is heartbroken about abortion, it won’t ever stop.

  • Michelle

    I wish all of you had this passion about the fact that abortion is WRONG and slaughter and massacre of the most innocent is FAR WORSE that your or anyones discomfort.

    • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

      And some of us wish that you felt the same way about stripping women of the right to maintain the integrity of their own bodies – that it’s WRONG and not really about “comfort” – it’s about her very being.

  • Jeanne Thompson-Raney

    That is why the life at conception act needs to be passed and abortion needs to end.

    • Anonymous

      Understand that more than half of fertilized eggs do not implant in the uterus and are flushed out with menstrual fluid.

      I believe that an act mandating that life begins at conception is a foolish measure because in more than half the cases, conceived eggs that pass through the uterus without implanting would be considered legal deaths. Likewise, any of these lost eggs could be investigated as suspicious deaths.

      • Catherine Todd

        So according to your theory, when someone dies of a completely naturally occuring illness, that’s to be investigated as a “suspicious death”? Because when my infant brother died from rsv simply bc he was too weak to fight the virus we didnt have any police show up at the hospital room demanding to know what happened.

        • IHateYourBS

          Reading comprehension is not your strong suit, huh? First off, your brother died in the hospital, where doctors were looking over him, and it was probably known to them that there was a life-threatening problem with your brother in the first place. Being as it is a hospital, they already have equipment to diagnose him and be able to tell it was the cause of death. There is no reason to call the cops or have the cops show up as it is known human interaction didn’t cause his death.

          What Anon is saying is the fact that life at conception is complete crap is based on what is already know about fetus development. Not all fertilize eggs stick to the uterus, not all fetuses completely develop

          • john lind

            Your logic is flawed. Life does not start at ejaculation. It starts at conception.

          • LiveActionNewsIsCrap

            No shit, the point was to over exaggerate. Being as that is what is common in this forum, that shouldn’t have been a surprise.

          • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

            But funny, none the less :D

          • MamaBear

            Police in most states do not investigate all natural cause deaths at home either. If the family doctor verifies it to be natural, he can sign off on the death certificate. Been there.

          • LiveActionNewsIsCrap

            “If the family doctor verifies it to be natural” is the key part.

            Im not sure what the point of posting your rebuttal was. My condolences on your parted loved ones.

          • Catherine Todd

            Funny how those with a minute understanding of the world and a biased, unfounded pool of “knowledge” must resort to name calling and accusations on one’s intelligence(“miss reading comprehension”) and neurological functioning(“conservitard”) to validate their poorly constructed argument. Before you go attacking the view point of me and a majority of the other people on here, maybe try to tone down your(those who see name calling a blind accusations as appropriate rebuttles) extreme projection*, as its not a proper way to deal with insecurities.
            *See george eman vaillant’s categories of psychoanalytic defenses.

          • LiveActionNewsIsCrap

            Reading comprehension is taught. Your ability to retain such knowledge has little baring on intelligence, I am sorry if you felt insulted, I was not meaning to call you slow in the head, as your run-on sentences prove you are not. (I am joking)

            As I have pointed out, most of my negative comments are rebuttles to snarky/hateful comments made by the people I responded to. There are a few of you, so it’s hard to keep track of who said what without digging through comments.

          • PJ4

            Oh please…you’ve been completely invective from the start

          • Catherine Todd

            And if you’re implying that for every miscarriage there will be an investigation to the death, a simple urine analysis will determine that there was a pregnancy, and that there was a miscarriage due to normal biological errors. So if thats your only excuse for why an infant at early stages is only a “mass of cells”, its a very meager, uninformed, and pointless one.

          • LiveActionNewsIsCrap

            I see miss reading comprehension is back, how are you?

            Im saying that basing life on mere conception has many flaws which can’t be overlooked.

          • PJ4

            Um.. no.. life begins at conception is not complete crap.

            It’s in every embryology book you can read.

            No one is saying that miscarriages should be the cause of police investigation.

            The fact that life could come from something doesn’t mean that it is alive. If what you believe were the case, then based on your logic, blowjobs are cannibalism.

            You really need to get your talking points from somewhere other than idiot comedians.
            Try picking up a book on embryology. It’s obvious you haven’t even been in the same room as one.

          • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

            There’s general agreement that life begins at conception. There is, however, considerable disagreement about granting legal “personhood” to a zygote because of the can of worms that offers to open. If personhood ever becomes law, you’ll know that police state has arrived.

          • PJ4

            Doubt it.
            That’s just your opinion.
            Once personhood has been achieved, more lives will be saved.
            Sorry you have a problem with saving lives.

          • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

            It’s going to take quite a sea change to get that personhood thing done. As things stand today, it can’t even get close in the most backward states let alone where people acknowledge that there are nuances in life.

          • PJ4

            Baby steps. Gary. Baby steps.

          • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

            Stripping women of the right to control the integrity of their own person – in baby steps… {sigh}

          • PJ4

            Stripping anyone’s (not just women) ability to kill another human being at will in baby steps

          • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

            Is if it’s that simple…..

          • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

            Note: the abortion rate in the USA is down 41% since 1973. It’s at almost exactly the same level today that it was prior to Roe v Wade.

          • PJ4

            Oh Gary, there you go being naughty and deceitful again… perhaps you need a spanking.
            Time to get my leather out.

            Why has the abortion rate gone done and when did it start happening?
            After a string of pro life laws were passed in the last 3 decades.
            In the 2 decades proceeding Roe the abortion rate went up astoundingly.

            Oh you liberals… always with the half truths with the intention of deception.

            *sigh*

          • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

            Speaking of half-truths and outright lies, abortion rates rose sharply for 6 years (not “2 decades”) after Row, plateaued for a couple of years and then began slowly but steadily dropping – in part because of pro-life laws, but mostly because contraceptives and education in their proper use became much more common thanks to organizations like Planned Parenthood and over the objections of conservatives whose moneyed interests profit mightily from the downward pressure on wages of a larger workforce competing for the same jobs.

          • PJ4

            citation please

          • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

            Guttmacher :)

          • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

            Speaking of evidence, where’s yours for your claim that “In the 2 decades proceeding Roe the abortion rate went up astoundingly.”??

          • PJ4
          • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

            That’s cute – your citation also shows that the abortion rate peaked 6 years after Row and then began a steady decline. Thanks for further supporting what I said. I appreciate it!

          • PJ4

            I think Common Core is effecting you too much..

            In 1979, 6 years after Roe, the abortion rate was 1,497,670
            1990 was when it peaked at 1,608,620

            Ok Gary, I understand this is hard for you, so I’ll go slow…

            1,497,670. Is. Less. Than. 1,608,620

            The. Steady. Decline. Began. After 1990

            Cute how you have to emote all over facts too.

          • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

            Do you comprehend what the word “rate” means? In simple terms: number of events per a given increment of the population. If you want to say that the total NUMBER of abortions increased until 1990, I would concur – but you said “rate” in your original comment and in this one as well.

          • PJ4

            Ok.. you said six years… it peaked in 1981 at 30.1 (8 years, not 6 years dear) but fluctuated greatly until more pro life laws starting hitting the books.

          • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

            You’re still looking in the wrong column – there is no 30.anything in the RATE column (far right-hand column with a heading of “Rate”). I was going from a graph that didn’t show any perceptible difference between 79 and 80 – according to what you cited, it peaked in 80 slightly above 79, stayed the same in 81 and then began a steady decline. Where’s your evidence of “2 decades”? You did claim 2 decades, did you not?

          • PJ4

            Interesting that you’ve given me no evidence for any of your claims but insist on me giving you evidence… that’s how the Left works, isn’t it?

            *sigh* I’m not looking at the wrong column. It peaked in 81… and went up and down till 1990.

          • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

            I told you where I found the evidence I cited. Apparently that wasn’t good enough for you so you hunted up another that agreed with what I said with the exception that printed numbers revealed the actual peak slightly higher a year later which wasn’t readily apparent from the graph I viewed.

            The number you quoted came from the Abortion % column. The “Rate” column shows the top number in 80 and 81 (that “plateau for a couple of years” that I mentioned).

            I’m still waiting for the evidence of your claim that the abortion rate rose sharply for 2 decades after Roe. Surely you don’t say things you can’t support – what with your snarky comments to others who don’t provide you with links and all.

          • PJ4

            Actually I was talking about your other absurd claims…but lets not talk about the things you have no evidence for, right?
            Only focus on things you have bias marginal hack pieces to provide as “evidence”

            Actually, you said 6 years.. 80-81 is year 7 and year 8.
            I can amend my statement to up and down till the 90’s

          • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

            Happy Thanksgiving, PF. My wife and I are off to the movies for a Thanksgiving dinner of hot dogs and nachos.

          • PJ4

            Happy T-day to you too.. Fam and I are off to Laguna Beach for Thanksgiving.

        • WorldGoneCrazy

          There you go, Catherine: using facts and logic that the pro-abort mind cannot comprehend. :-) Get ready for some name-calling. Well-done!

        • I am so sorry about the loss of your little brother Catherine. I am also sorry about the abuse you will have in response to your posts from the pro-aborts.

        • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

          Police don’t show up for “attended” (by medical professionals) deaths. A death a home without an attending medical person gets investigated. When can we install the filter on your toilet to collect the evidence for a fertilized egg that failed to implant?

          • MamaBear

            Police do not investigate unattended deaths either if the person was under care of a medical professional who had reason to expect the death and he signs the death certificate. At least it is that way in at three states.

            Your comment to Catherine about a filter on her toilet is sick and abusive.

          • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

            In both states where I’ve been involved in 3 unattended deaths, the procedure is to call the police, they send out a detective who does a preliminary investigation which includes looking for obvious signs such a a hatchet still embedded in the skull of the deceased or other telltale signs and asking if there’s a physician who’s familiar with the patient. The detective calls the doc, the doc says, “this is expected”, and we’re done – at least we are if the doc doesn’t say, “WHAT????”

      • MamaBear

        There have been times and places where infant and child mortality rates were 50% or over. If you lived in such a time and place, would the fact half the children died of natural causes anyway excuse infanticide?

      • MamaBear

        BTW I’ve also been through an “investigation” into the death of a family member. Police called me an hour after I had asked someone to check on a family member who lived alone in another state with news of his death. They had already checked the home for signs of a break-in and the medicine cabinet so they knew what health problems he was in treatment for. They asked a few brief questions and asked the landlord and pastor similar questions. A couple of hours later, “investigation” was complete and they decided he died from complications of a chronic condition he was on prescription meds for.

      • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

        Truth be told, they can’t even pass those laws in the most backward states. It will never happen on any meaningful level – and thank God for that.

    • PJ4

      Hmm I dunno… I think we have to start small.
      Let’s start with a ban on abortion after 20 weeks.
      Let that sit for a while and then go from there.

      Yes we need to change the law, but we have to also start changing hearts.

      Baby steps, remember? :-)
      (no pun intended)

      • MamaBear

        I really wish we could simply end all abortion right now. But, even “baby steps” help.
        I think better education about prenatal development before young women ever get pregnant and waiting periods are also steps that could be taken now.

        • PJ4

          Yes!!
          A million upvotes!!!

        • Basset_Hound

          Under the category of “better education” should come “teaching young men and women to treat each other with respect instead of like sex toys”

          • MamaBear

            Amen to that.

          • Gary Gayisok Whiteman

            Not only each other, but themselves as well. :D

  • Maj. Don West

    Thankful for some in the room that reacted to the revelation of how abhorrent act of abortion is, instead of the debate on whether it should be shown in public.

  • Annette Browning- Morris

    I think it’s a great ideal. I don’t believe in abortions & think the shouldn’t be allowed at all. It’s murder.. but also for the ones that did have one and say they didn’t know how it was done. There’s all kinds of videos & books to research at the library also on YouTube Google. Ect. To me they didn’t want to know so it would be easier to have an abortion done. Also I feel that this should be taught to teenagers in 9th grade on the whole true facts on abortion in high school and how easy it is to adopt a child instead!!

  • pjwung

    I seen something like this shortly after we brought our 2nd daughter home from the hospital as a newborn. Yes, it brought tears to my eyes seeing my newborn in contrast to the dismembered children on the screen. It was so surreal to witness the stark reality between the beauty of newborn life and that of the dismembered and mutilated little children. I was deeply moved, tearful and staggered but certainly it came as no surprise knowing that to murder an infant would be just what one would expect as shown on the screen. I really do not know what these people expected to see as a result of such a violent, unnatural and despicable act – of course it would be the worse thing that one could ever witness! It really is not rocket science and one would think it to be intuitive. Murder of a living baby torn from the mother’s womb could only have one appearance and of course that is what they got. I always hated it and always will….can’t believe it is still happening some 40 yrs after this national debacle was pronounced legal by the gods sitting on their thrones in the highest court of the land…Let us continue to pray and act to stop this most evil of human “choices”….

    • WorldGoneCrazy

      Beautifully put: it once WAS intuitive – and no self-respecting woman or man would have even considered abortion. Sadly, we live in the darkest of dark ages. Prayer and God’s Sovereignty are the ultimate answers.

  • kbwakeskate

    So please someone tell me what gives you the right to dictate what I do with my body? What gives you the “god given” right to do such a thing? If some loser decides to go out and abort HER unborn fetus, is it physically harming you? and because I already know the answer to the last question I asked, since no physical harm is being done to your body, you have NO LEGAL STANDING in this moral debate. Thats just like saying “Oh I would like to ban Christianity because I believe its wrong and harmful to the believers psychological condition.” Do you see how stupid that sounds. Well guess what, same fucking concept. Who is the almighty ruler that determines ones morals are better than the others? THERE ISN’T ONE!

    • blair miller

      Do you see how silly your comment is? A the fetus/baby is not your body.He/she is inside your body.B if someone rapes,or brutaly killed a person outside the womb.Dose that physical hurts you?No by your own logic,your saying people have no legaly right to say that is wrong.Because it dose not physical effect their bodies.

      • IHateYourBS

        Holy shit, what a cluster-fuck of stupid. I’m not even going to try and debate you, as it is clear you have your mind made-up, and possibly a little bit of brain damage. And if you do feel like debating, come back with some proper English.

    • john lind

      One doesen’t have to have legal standing in a moral debate.

      If a criminal is raping a stranger down the street, don’t I have a right to stop the rape even though I’m not being physically harmed?

      I, or anybody else, have the right to dictate what you do with your body if you’re using your body to commit aggression against another. If you physically defend yourself against an aggressor, you are dictating what they do with their body by stopping or attempting to stop their bodily actions.

  • Colleen Mccann-Doyle

    This is needed by women and men to be well informed and then make your decision about a life changing decision…show it in schools and at home. If your daughter or son feels their old enough to have sex,take the pill ,use condoms thei old enough to see this video!

  • Stephanie Simerman

    Why is it too graphic??? Its JUST tissue….

  • Sarah Issac

    If people saw the reality of abortion most would not support it. And I have heard many post abortive women say that if they had known the reality and not just what they were told in the abortion clinic, they would have never done it. Also the average age of someone getting an abortion is 15 to 23. These young girls are scared and often are offered the abortion that day or only a few days after finding out they are pregnant, so they have little time to process what is going on and are often pressured by family or the father to have the abortion. Unfortunately it is these girls who have to live with that decision, not those who “counseled” them! So many hurting women out there might be saved along with their babies by watching a video like this. Because if we really want to say it is all about choice, then a girl should know exactly what that choice is, and if she changes her mind because of what she sees then that is her right. We as women should be informed about all the aspects of abortion.

  • AlvinAmbers

    If people approve of killing babies, they should at least have to acknowledge what is involved and not allowed to hide behind contrived denial and blissful ignorance.

  • Basset_Hound

    I’m sorry that you have had to endure this from someone you thought you loved. I wasn’t even married to an emotional abuser. In my late 20’s I endured a boss from hell, and I endured the symptoms listed in your article.

    My heart and prayers go out to YOU, and I pray that you won’t have to endure finger wagging lectures about “staying in the marriage no matter what”.

  • Supreme

    Like the abolitionists got there big push over the social media of their time when Harriet Beecher Stowe published Uncle Tom’s Cabin in 1852, so the Pro-Life movement can increase their momentum by posting the reality of abortion on Facebook and Instagram etc. The clean term abortion must be connected with the reality, and not in nice drawings but clear pictures and movies.

  • LiveActionNewsIsCrap

    My condolences on your terrible situation, abuse is a horrid thing to deal with, expectually when it is constant abuse. I hope you find peace.

  • Kim Felini

    What I want to see is how effective the video was in changing people’s minds about abortions in general. That one lady was right. If these images and videos were made available to the millions of women or girls who went through with the procedure, I think that it would’ve of deterred many of them from going through with it.

  • Frances Ruocco

    It amazes me when some people start bring up child abuse/ They think it is better to abort a child than have them live in a home where they will get abused. So instead of spending money teaching parents not to abuse their child, they kill it instead. How they can justify the way they think is ridiculous. Teach them not to do drugs, teach them to remain celibate, teach them that there is more to life then just using each other as sex objects. Teach them to respect their own bodies first, then maybe they will respect the bodies of every other human being that crosses their path especially their children. Teach them that they are human beings not animals and they can control their sexual desires. Yes show them what happens in an abortion, also show them how to love and care for children. Stop all the bull about large families being a burden. In the early 1900s many people had large families. They were loving, caring families and made memories that last forever. Today people don’t even talk to each other they just text each other. Saw a man and woman in a car, he was driving talking on the phone, she was texting someone instead of talking to each other. People should be talking, laughing, having fun.

    • MamaBear

      Actually, since Roe vs. Wade, child abuse has dramatically increased at rates totally out of proportion to population increase.
      You are right that we need to learn how to parent, how to truly be families again.

  • Betty Tolliver

    Its surly sad that people are taking away a life instead of giving sending the child away its better than this without taking a life

  • a.j.butler

    Dr. King, in quoting the Declaration of Independence, acknowledges that the right to life derives from our Creator. Whence arises the supposed right to abortion that officially forms a plank in the platform of the Democratic Party? Seeing is indeed believing and a picture is worth a thousand words. All manner of injustice (including child labor, segregation, animal abuse, and poverty) have been brought to light in the modern era using photography which means literally to “write with light.” In contrast the presumed right to abortion was claimed by the majority in Roe v. Wade to emanate from penumbra (lit. “almost shadow”), meaning the partial shadow outside of a complete eclipse.” Relative darkness in other words. Justice Brandeis once sat on that same court and I endorse his professed belief that “sunlight is the best disinfectant.”

  • Nan Perkins

    Thrown away like garbage – how can women live with themselves. These are tiny human beings with souls and a future. We live in a world so hard-hearted that this is nothing more than squashing the life out of a cockroach. Is it no wonder that so many mothers can kill their children – kill them in utero, kill them later what difference does it make? God help our callous hearts. Someday, if these mothers get to heaven, a young man or a young woman will approach and say, they were the child aborted or killed years ago. Abortion done willfully is murder.

  • Matthew Connally

    Most of these people are so concerned with having to watch and are horrified cause they have to see it, how about the baby who actually has to go through this? How you think they feel?

  • Kellyruss

    I certainly am mixed on this. I think its appropriate for high school and older. I support the pro life cause but I would never let mine watch this any younger than at least 13. As a parent I guard their eyes to the ugliness of the world until I am able. I do not think young children should be exposed to it and think if you are going to show it publically that decision needs to be chosen wisely and the signs they put out must be required. With that in mind it should be mandatory viewing before anyone gets an abortion!

  • turn kit

    If adults have seared conscious minds perhaps we must expose children to this horror so that in their innocence they will ask the adults, “Why is this happening?”

    Kids are not traumatized by this, they genuinely ask “who did it?”, and “why is it done?” It’s parents who traumatize kids when they explode in cursing and anger that scares their kids.

    The easiest way to deal with a kid seeing this for a parent is just to tell the kid, “Some parents are bad and did this to their kids, but I love you and would never let that happen to you. We should work to stop parents from being allowed to do this to their kids.”

  • Buster’s View

    So that blond woman thinks “it’s just wrong.” What’s just wrong? The abortion? Or making you see what it looks like?

  • Brittanie Strickland

    Being able to conceive is a gift from our Lord and savior. God breaths life into a child the moment he/she is conceived and us as humans have no right to choose that the child of God should not live. Their are plenty people who can not conceive on their own and if your wishes are to not raise the child then you have a wonderful opportunity to pass the blessing on to someone who will love it and raise he/she as their own. God bless you all!

  • A Stamm

    I thought the reactions of the journalists were disturbing, are they that sheltered…seems like the population at a whole is detached from reality.