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Published: September 14, 2013 8:26 am to Politics News

North Dakota becomes the first state to ban abortion because of Down syndrome

downs-child9 times out of 10, if a mother gets a prenatal diagnosis of Down syndrome, she will choose to kill that child. A life will be ended, merely because the baby has one extra chromosome. And it isn’t a situation unique to Down syndrome, either — mothers will often choose to abort their unborn child if a birth defect is found before the baby is born, even for something as minor as a cleft palate or a club foot.

Thanks to one judge in North Dakota, a tiny step has been taken to change that. North Dakota has now become the first state to ban abortion because of Down syndrome according to ABC News.

A federal judge has dismissed part of a lawsuit challenging a new North Dakota law that blocks abortions based on unwanted gender or a genetic defect, such as Down syndrome.

The state’s sole abortion clinic in Fargo, backed by the New York-based Center for Reproductive Rights, filed the lawsuit in June. That suit also challenges another new measure that bans abortion when a fetal heartbeat is detected; it was temporarily blocked in July.

… U.S. District Judge Daniel Hovland granted the Red River Women’s Clinic request to drop the gender and genetic defects part of the lawsuit on Monday. The clinic has said the ban doesn’t affect it because it doesn’t perform abortions for that reason.

Hovland dismissed that portion of the lawsuit without prejudice, meaning the clinic can revive a legal challenge later.

It may indeed be a very small step. But it’s an important one. Someone who has an extra chromosome, or any other birth defect, does not deserve to be robbed of their chance to live simply because they are different.

About Cassy Fiano

Cassy Fiano is a blogger who lives with her husband, a United States Marine. They have a toddler named Ben, a second son named Wyatt, who has Down syndrome, and a little girl named Ivy.
View all posts by Cassy Fiano

  • PrincessJasmine4

    This just made my morning!
    Thank you, Cassy!

  • JDC

    Congratulations to North Dakota!

  • Stormii

    Finally! Someone realized that discrimination can happen anywhere – including the womb.

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  • ldwendy

    Cassy:

    Are you going to ask taxpayers to subsidize the care of Wyatt when he is elderly, has dementia, heart problems, and is hitting at his caretakers?

    http://www.channel4.com/news/more-people-with-downs-syndrome-developing-dementia

    Sorry for being this blunt, but the fact is many individuals with Down Syndrome have a higher risk for developing Alzheimer’s disease and dementia. I’m just curious how you plan to deal with this. How every family who is welcoming a child with DS plan to deal with this possibility?

    Society in general has attitudinal barriers on people with all kinds of disabilities. As someone who has lived with a disability for more of my life, I can attest to the fact not everyone is interested in providing accomodations for people with disabilities.

    Wendy

    • johno

      Should the taxpayer, Cassy say, terminate you then? Oh, cannot do that can we. That would be MURDER. The Golden Dawn in Greece advocates this policy of getting rid of the WEAK people. A burden on the taxpayer as you say. Let the STATE terminate those that are not strong. This is authoritarianism and statism at its worst. Slippery slope your advocating.

      • ldwendy

        I did not say the state should terminate those that are not strong. I’m only saying that parents that choose to bring their disabled children into this world should also do the responsible thing and plan for their life-long care.

        Anti-choice people are usually the biggest fans of “small government” so surely they have no problem with leaving government of the picture in planning the long term care of disabled children.

        • Beverly Harlton

          Wendy, my younger sister has Down’s. She is 23. When we were small, my grandfather took out a life insurance policy on my mother. After he passed away, she renewed it and listed me as the beneficiary after discussing my sister’s future. We decided very quickly that, upon my mother’s death, I will use that money to care for my sister.

          I am 25. I am extremely conservative, as well as a practicing and devout Catholic. I suppose you would call me “anti-choice,” though the only choice I am against is the choice to murder one’s child in utero. I also feel that government corrupts everything it touches with its grubby fingers, so I do not intend to rely on taxpayer assistance to care for my sister when she is my responsibility.

          • ldwendy

            thank you for sharing.

    • Sean Minturn

      I was wondering earlier if there were any actual, honest-to-God Nazis left in the world today, and not just skinhead posers.

      Thank you for answering that question for me.

      • ldwendy

        Nowhere did I say that Cassy should not have carried Wyatt to term. Very classy of you to call people names.

        • Sean Minturn

          Talk like Mengele, call me a name-caller, and then try to weasel your way out of your Nazism with platitudes.

          You know what? Don’t even bother fetching my latte. Just get lost. I feel sick just talking to you.

          • FRLBJ

            The Nazis were big advocates of killing Downs’ people. They did it too, also amputees, bedwetters and those with cleft lip. They starved the little children to death or gassed them. Mengele gruesomely experimented on living prisoners. After fleeing Germany in WWII Mengele went to Argentina where he took up the abortion business! Birds of a feather flock together! No Nazi methods for us!!! Abortion of Down’ babies is Nazi-like eugenics. The Nazis introduced abortion on demand in the Warsaw ghetto among the Jews who were imprisoned there. The catch words many pro-abortion commenters are bandying about in this comment section originated with the Nazis in their drive to exterminate Jews. ‘Controling you own life’, liberation, etc. choice were slogans they coined in order to kill more Jews-the unborn ones.

        • Sim Reilly

          PMSL I’m not going to follow the recommendations of someone I met on the internet, fuck you. I’m surviving day to day, I don’t have one cent saved for her future. You don’t like it? Suck my dick.

          • PrincessJasmine4

            very classy and grown up of you.

            wait.. you have a dick? I thought you were a chick..

        • Maria Scholnick

          I have a daughter with Down syndrome and she is not a burden to me nor my family. She is my daughter and I love her as such. People with Down syndrome are people first and no different then a person who doesn’t have a generic condition such DS they can be an asset to our society, maybe you have not met one yet, but there are hundreds of people with DS who are living productive lives. Yes, they are prone to Alzheimer’s but less like it then a typical adult. There are 2 situations here, if a child with DS is raised right with appropriate medical care, appropriate education, family and community inclusion you will be surprised. For other cases such when the child is born with serious illness such heart defect which not all babies with DS suffer of (50% of babies with DS are born with heart defect which is operable). I understand why you have the sad concept of people with DS as you described and is because you have only met people with DS who were not well taking care of by their families and were consider a burden or throw away. Sincerely.

  • Sim Reilly

    It is the mother’s right to choose, and I believe it is wrong to take this choice away. I am a parent of a very loved child with down syndrome. I do not judge women who do not wish to carry through with their pregnancy.

    • Sim Reilly

      A vote down because I don’t judge women and their choices? how classy.

      • Sim Reilly

        Not everyone wants to own women and their bodies, you know.

        • JDC

          I don’t know anyone who wants to own women and their bodies, so I think you’re attacking a strawman.

          • PrincessJasmine4

            of course she is.. that’s all the pro death camp has.
            these people are almost directly quoting slave owners… and they don’t even know it…

          • JDC

            So true.

          • PrincessJasmine4

            and he/she is distressed about the down vote
            It wasn’t even me!
            LOL
            what a grown up reaction.

          • JDC

            Pro-tip: Don’t want to get down vote? Don’t comment on a website with that option.

          • PrincessJasmine4

            Bwahaahahaha

            Stop sounding like a pro abort!
            :-)

          • JDC

            Okay, I’ll stop. :)

          • someone45

            Anti-choice people might not want to own a woman’s body, but the want to control it by forcing her to use it against her will to bring the unwanted baby to term.

          • Kevin

            Anti choice sounds a lot like “sensitive to the deaths of innocents” the way you phrase it.

            Is it each individual’s business that some mothers want to kill their children? Seems like we try to punish negligent mothers on issues outside of abortion… so where’s the consistency?

          • angelkymer

            You have the ultimate control by choosing to have or not have sex. Again, you know what causes pregnancy. Why make the child pay because you took a risk for momentary pleasure?

          • someone45

            I know what causes pregnancy and that is why I use two forms of birth control. If I end up pregnant I did my part by taking extra precautions. I shouldn’t have to give up my life because I am the most unlucky person ever.

          • FRLBJ

            Then don’t have relations in the fertile time! You need to look at your diet and get a competent doctor who is not lazy. Contraception will ruin your marriage and give you cancer. That will really end your life. Killing the child is not the way to go. BC pills and IUDs cause silent abortions. Trust God to help you!

          • someone45

            How exactly will birth control ruin my relationship? If anything I think birth control helps it since we can have sex without worrying about a unwanted pregnancy. BC and IUD’s do not cause abortions. That is one of the more ridiculous anti-choice lies I have been hearing lately. I do agree though that BC pills aren’t the way to go. The hormones in it has way to many negative side effects.

          • FRLBJ

            Go to The Pill Kills site for more info. Using contraception turns the marital act into an act of masturbation and is not love. You and your spouse are lying, that is doing untruth, with the body. The marital act expresses a total giving of oneself, body and soul to the spouse. When contracepting you are not doing that. You are withholding your fertility and saying to your spouse, “I give all but my fertility to you”. You are not loving your spouse then and the other notices this conditionality that you are putting on your self-giving in the marital act. Over time the spouse resents it and the friction begins. You also feel this limitation on the your love you have for your spouse and you are also uneasy. The sparks begin to fly.

          • someone45

            I have no desire to have a child ever so I will never give my fertility to my partner. Neither of us wants kids. If I wasn’t on birth control we would never have sex because I would be to afraid I’d end up pregnant and I don’t have time to deal with that.

            I am pretty sure seeing as how I never want kids and my partner feels the same way we will be o.k. even if we are withholding something from each other.

            Thank you though I needed a laugh about how crazy some anti-choice people really are….

          • FRLBJ

            In other words you are using one another and not loving each other! Exploitation is not love and can’t be the basis of a long-term relationship.
            If you are that old, you are probably not too fertile. Also BC and IUD can render you infertile.

          • someone45

            I love him and he loves me and we aren’t using each other just because we don’t want kids. I think you are just messing with me though. Noone can really believe the way you do.
            When exactly did I say how old I was? I don’t even remember hinting at my age…. If IUD’s only side effect is leaving my infertile I guess I can live with that. (since you know I never want kids)

          • FRLBJ

            The IUDs have horrendous side effects. Just google -side effects of IUDs. There are lots of lawsuits against the manufacturers.
            This is the common understanding of humanity. Have you ever heard of the theology of the body which Blessed Pope John Paul II articulated? It makes a lot of sense actually.

          • someone45

            I haven’t had any bad side effects yet and it has been over a year. Want to talk about side effects…. Just look up what pregnancy does to someone. (those are some side effects I would be worried about)

            Your view of love and mine must be opposite…. I think if someone really loves me they would never try to force me into something (pregnancy) that would destroy my life.

          • FRLBJ

            Infections in the Fallopian tubes are common which can render you infertile. You may have no overt symptoms either. Veneral diseases and ectopic pregnancies which are indeed life threatening are increased. Also, very heavy bleeding. The IUD can work itself into your womb and through it to your intestines, etc. since it does move about when you move.
            Pregnancy is generally healthful. There are many benefits to the mother’s health, such as protection against cancer due to the stem cells of the baby staying in the mother for many decades even after birth.
            If married and you jhave health problems, use Natural family planning or abstain. Women are designed to bear children with proper support and nutrition. An IUD is going to make you sick and you are just being exploited and used which is not loving.

          • Dawn Johnson Pence

            Seriously, FR, where are you getting your information on IUDs? This is completely false. An IUD cannot make you sick. Your information is not from the medical community at all.

          • thinkitover

            There is a word for people who use natural family planning… they are called parents.

          • nlr101913

            You are a very self centered b***h!!!! I don’t see how your partner could put up with you and how very selfish you are. You seriously need some mental health help.

          • Dawn Johnson Pence

            Sorry, but that’s not true. IUDs do not have “horrendous side effects.”

          • Dawn Johnson Pence

            Sorry, but you are incorrect on that, FR. Birth control pills and the IUD cannot make you infertile. I don’t know where you get that idea, but it’s false.

          • Dawn Johnson Pence

            My suggestion to you would be for either your partner or yourself get fixed so you don’t have to worry about that issue. Vasectomies are relatively easy and inexpensive.

          • Liz

            If I couldn’t withhold my fertility, my husband would never touch me ever again. As far as I know, THAT would lead to divorce a heckuva lot quicker.

          • thinkitover

            You are presupposing that the use of birth control is a unilateral decision in a marriage. If one spouse doesn’t want to give their fertility at that time and the other spouse wouldn’t want to receive it either, 0 problem. Love and sex are about being accountable to each other and to the import of what you are doing. Birth control can be used in that context and improve a relationship.

          • Melanie

            Actually, I believe you need to do your research there. How do you think an IUD works? It works by not allowing the fertilized egg to implant and develop-aborting it. Also, BC causes crazy hormonal imbalances that can cause the pregnancy to end-aborting it.

          • Dawn Johnson Pence

            Again, incorrect. Please do research on how these really work. You are incorrect.

          • Dawn Johnson Pence

            Having a baby is giving up your life? What, you die when the baby is born? Sorry, but that’s a worthless argument on your part. It’s 9 months out of your life. Big deal. Be a grown up and deal with it.

        • Kevin

          I mean, the US is known for getting involved when people are being killed overseas… I recognize you don’t consider a fetus a person but science is actually on the pro life side on this one.

          Living — Cells are growing, organs are forming, even from conception the child is alive

          Human — Child is the same species as the mother, go figure

          Individual — Different genotype (see: Extra chromosomes ;) than the mother, not “her tissue” as the child and his or her cells have a different genetic identity.

          The science holds it’s a new person from conception, so, that’s the answer to your question (of why people get up in arms about a woman’s right to kill)

    • PrincessJasmine4

      no one has the right to decide who is worthy of life and who deserves death.
      Not a woman. Not a man. Not the state.

      • Sim Reilly

        A WOMAN gets to decide whether she wants a fetus inside of her body, not a little girl named princess Jasmine who clearly cant grow up and discuss grown up people’s issues. I can abort 10 foetuses if I choose and there isn’t a goddamn thing you can do about it.

        • Sim Reilly

          Ermergerd a pro lifer who can mark all of my posts down, how threatening. You spend all of your days arguing pro-life. I bet you have never even personally known any children who are terminally ill or who have serious genetic conditions.

          • PrincessJasmine4

            I’m not marking down your posts you silly little girl.

            My husband and I took care of his special needs older brother until he died.

            I know plenty of wonderful disabled children.

            Anymore judgements you’d like to throw my way? It’s very typical of your kind.

            “If slavery be a sin, it is not yours. It does
            not rest on your action for its origin, on your consent for its existence. It is a common law right to property in the service of man.” –Jefferson Davis

          • Marie Noybn

            try that with me buster. Im both a foster parent who has raised children other people didnt want AND the mother of a child with a fatal genetic condition.

          • Dawn Johnson Pence

            I have. My own child had a major heart condition when she was born and has had to have 2 heart surgeries in her 23 years of life.

            I used to have a daycare and took care of special needs children. Several had severe brain damage. One had Menke’s syndrome, which is a copper deficiency. He was an absolute delight. He was about 30 pds at age 10, tiny as a rail and just laid there, but he would laugh and laugh at the other kids and the other kids loved to make him laugh. He was so much fun! Never once did any of the daycare moms, the mother, nor any of the daycare kids see him as a burden. He was a joyous child, while a challenge at times for his single mom, still was a delight to her and he lived far beyond life expectancy (which was 1 – he lived to be 24 years old). I still support life. Even this little boy deserved life, and his mother chose life for him, and was blessed by him. I felt blessed to have known him for the time i was able to care for him. I have very fond memories of him.

        • PrincessJasmine4

          You seem very angry dear. Pro aborts usually are.

          You need to lash out at people who take a stand against something quite barbaric.

          You can kill your young, but that makes you a very depraved person, no different from the likes of Dahmer or Bundy. They dehumanized their victims too. Wasn’t a goddamn thing anyone could do about it either..

          Good job.

        • PrincessJasmine4

          You seem unable to discuss grown up issues without resorting to name calling and profanity. Good for you.

        • Kevin

          A woman gets to decide that just because another living human being is inside her, she has the right to end that life?

          What makes her life worth more than the child?

          Why doesn’t the child, a living human being (clearly with his or her own genetic identity separate from the mother) get any rights when other human beings do?

          • someone45

            What makes the woman’s life less than the fetus that is inside her? Why does she suddenly have no rights and why do anti choice people want to reduce her to breeding stock.

          • Kevin

            Her life isn’t worth less, it’s equal. She can give the child up for adoption but killing the child is not an equal punishment to bearing it.

            The reason the fetus matters is because, like the mother, the fetus both exists and is alive. Both lives are infinitely irreplaceable.

          • someone45

            If you are forcing the woman to carry a child she doesn’t want you are saying her happiness and life mean nothing and the life of the fetus means everything. I have known women who were so depressed because of how horrible their pregnancy was they thought about suicide. If a woman is that depressed the fetus and the woman are going to die.

          • Kevin

            What I’m getting from your response is that you consider “quality of life” to be equivocal or potentially of greater importance than whether or not life exists.

            To that, I leave you that quality of life is immensely subjective (the human mind *will* create meaning from thin air when a human undergoes suffering) and anyone who’s had enough struggles in life to know, knows that the people who’ve hurt the most, come to appreciate what they have the most, and realize that happiness isn’t tied to your circumstances.

            Whether or not life exists is an objective observation. The cells are inanimate, no longer functioning… dead. The woman had a bad five years? Sucks, but you can bet she grew from it. Quality of life is meaningless with the understanding that all live must eventually end (was yours, good? bad? Either way, at some point, it was inevitably over) You hope for the best, and realize that as you struggle, you learn to create it for yourself.

            Per depression,
            Consider that their are biological bonding processes nearly all mothers will go through… more bonding with the child takes place after the birth, but some bonding will occur beforehand as well… there is no way to escape depression, and abortion will not bypass it.

            Anyone who thinks its okay to end life to improve someone else’s quality of life… should rightfully be among the lives that are being ended. It’s only fair, if you’re authorizing other’s deaths, that the authorizer be going down with the ship he sent off himself.

          • someone45

            Not every woman will have a desire to go through a biological bonding process with her child.

            You say abortion won’t cause a woman to escape depression? I disagree. A lot of times abortion will save a woman from depression and allow her to get her life back.

            The people who appreciate what they have the most are (from my experience) the ones who face the greatest chance to lose it. A woman with an unwanted pregnancy faces a great chance that she may lose a lot of things she loves about her life.

            Once a life is viable I think it has as much value as the next. As long it the fetus is non viable and is requiring the use of the woman to sustain its life, it is not more valuable than the pregnant woman.

          • Kevin

            A biological bonding process is at least in part chemical. “Desire” will not be enough of a factor to ensure that it does or does not happen.

            You see people as “valuable” or not? Pragmatic, but also chilling.

            What possible value could “society” itself ever have, if the individual person’s value is not intrinsic? That is a logical contradiction. If we do not value the living person who is 90 and no longer “producing” (what value is production if we don’t value human life?) we have no foundation to value those who are producing, because production must be worthless if human life is worthless.

            If the worth of society does not come from the individual (as a living being, not as a source of production), there can be no sense in attributing any value to society.

            True of all pragmatics, you value what they produce for you and the specific people you value.

            You have women in your life whose wellbeing you value, and a fetus is nameless and faceless. That’s where your moral stance comes from. You don’t value human life, you value specific people you have bonded with.

          • someone45

            If I ended up pregnant and was forced to carry to term my life would not be beautiful. It would be horrible and I would be extremely depressed because my chance at achieving my goals I have worked so hard for would be over.

            The person who is 90 and no longer producing has value. They have kids, grand kids, and maybe even great grand kids who love them. It is not the same for an unwanted pregnancy.

            You say as anti-choice you are value all human life…? That is not true at all. You don’t value the life of the pregnant woman. You only value her for the fetus that is growing inside her. You don’t care how the unwanted pregnancy might be ruining her life.

          • Kevin

            Same as every other human, your ability to see your life as beautiful continues to improve the more you suffer.

            You will not see your life as beautiful until you choose to, and most Americans still don’t realize it’s a choice.

            I value all human life (and either way it’s a choice). I have already accepted that humans getting what they want both makes them happy and makes them selfish. Everyone should have a blend, or risk becoming a monster (or giving up).

            It’s much more loving to watch someone carry a heavy burden from a distance, and be ready to help them when they collapse, then it is to share half of it with them as they go. You receive their love in return when you carry half, but, you deprive them of the chance to grow and learn their own power if you don’t let them fight and win.

            The value of a person cannot come from people who love them, that’s the same contradiction again.

            What worth could the grandchildren possibly have (none, in fact) if the grandparent has no worth?

            Here it is, in “expression” form:

            Human Worth = Production Worth
            Production Worth = Human Worth

            If a human is 90 and has no worth except when producing, then a 40 year-old’s production cannot have worth either. Production has no worth if a human has no worth. You’re stuck inside yourself… you value people, but what you don’t get is that outside of yourself, people either have value or they don’t, and you can’t have it both ways.

          • angelkymer

            If you are so afraid of getting pregnant and it ruining your life, don’t have sex. It is that simple. If pregnancy was something that was not preventable, maybe you would have an argument. Since you can chose not to engage in the behavior that causes pregnancy, you accept the inherent risk of pregnancy by engaging in that behavior. Abortion is making the life created through your behavior pay for a momentary pleasure that you decided was worth that risk.

          • someone45

            I am going to have sex because I am in a long-term committed relationship. I am not going to give up the man I plant to spend the rest of my life with person anti-choice people think a pregnant woman should be forced to carry to term. If anti-choice people don’t like abortion they don’t have to have one.

          • forlifeforever

            You are sick in your head.

          • Sandy Johnson

            Have you, someone45, ever studied how a fetus suffers during an abortion? Have you ever seen a baby (yes, the body was a baby) that died during a saline abortion? Do you want to face the fact that the child suffered PAINFUL burns (at that point in the pregnancy, the fetus definitely was able to feel pain).How about other abortion procedures? What you think is your right, is not. No one should have the right to end another person’s life, especially by a barbaric procedure.

          • guest

            i have, sounds better than having them thrown in the trash after they’re born

          • eddiestardust

            Yes, when a baby is born he or she can feel pain. But 10 minutes before he or she is born he or she can’t feel pain?
            We now know that babies can feel pain at 20 weeks. I was 26 weeks and folks are telling me I couldn’t feel pain?

          • Cierra Ryan

            I have, and uhm, I don’t care. It’s a parasite in MY body. So if I don’t want it, it is NOT staying.

          • FRLBJ

            A long-term committed relationship is not marriage and is conditional. In other words, the other is using you and you he. No total self-giving love. Slavery!

          • fightforrights

            You can’t possibly believe that marriage is unconditional. Don’t be ridiculous. Look at the stats.

          • Marie Noybn

            oh i just love that little bit of illogic there… “if you dont like abortion dont have one” lets apply that logic elsewhere shall we? “dont like murder, dont kill anyone” hmmm, no that doesnt work…”dont like rape, dont rape anyone” nope, doesnt work there either..”dont like theft, dont steal” uh uh… doesnt work… WHY would any idiot think it would work in this instance? stupidity and selfishness.

          • eddiestardust

            Make the guy wait. IF he is a good guy and he truly loves you he will wait…if he can’t he won’t be a good mate or a good father

          • Liz

            You are in for trouble. You have said you want sex, not a baby, even if that is what would, under normal and healthy circumstances, be the result. So has he. So you have already said to each other: I want to use you. You and I want something from you, but I will not accept your natural and healthy state, or cooperate with the way you are made(if there is a challenge to your health), before I will give it to you. If he said to you, “get a nose job,” you would know he did not love you. Why is “Lose your fertility, or we’re not having sex” any better? You have mutually agreed to use each other. Such a relationship, if not doomed from the start, will never go deeper. You are not willing to let it grow with accepting the natural results. May you find the truth before you find a world of pain. The natural result of using each other is to get rid of each other when the use is done, and to kill the person, viewed as an object, that neither of you have any “use” for.

          • DianaG2

            Very eloquent, Liz.

          • hobbes

            we will continue to fight for the truly innocent lives that you little girls plan on killing. you are going to have sex to keep your “man”, and if you get pregnant then you will just kill the child. you are one messed up piece of crap.

          • Cierra Ryan

            Awe, poor you. Boo hoo.

          • DianaG2

            Who is “committed” in this “relationship?”

          • politicaljules

            Having an abortion is no picnic. It is not beautiful, and it will be horrible, and you end up extremely depressed because your chance at your goals will forever be overshadowed by the death of a child you never got to meet. You obviously don’t care how the wanted abortion might be ruining her life.

          • lauren

            lots of women are never scarred by their abortions. they’re not “horrible.” a lot depends on how far along the lady is. many women do not end up depressed. some do. some don’t. my goals have never been overshadowed. i’ve had a lot more chances to get to my goals than I would if I had to take care of someone beside myself. let’s not forget the issue of money. many people can’t hardly meet their current bills month to month. it’s a question of practicality. especially early on.

          • Marie Noybn

            this society has turned women so cold… you dont even see how cold hearted and selfish youve become… if that “logic” was used on a born child they would call you a sociopath, but because the child you killed was too young to survive without you, somehow they convinced you that it was ok to rip it to shreds and pull it out of what should be the safest place in the world for a child, but is instead the most dangerous place… your womb. I know God will forgive you, but you have to realize that what youve done is wrong, and ask for forgiveness to receive it… at that time i know your child will forgive you too, but i will NEVER forgive the society that has taught you and so many others that this is ok.

          • CK

            Cold hearted and selfish, for aborting something that isn’t viable outside the womb? But, this woman who wrote the article, her husband is a Marine, I wonder if he has ever had to kill a person who was already alive and on this planet.. hmmmm, Do you think G-d will have mercy on him? Oh , never mind.. the guy he may or may not have to kill doesn’t matter, he’s brown, prays to a different G-d and doesn’t live here is the YOUUUUUESSSSSSAYYYYY

          • Tamist

            “if that “logic” was used on a born child they would call you a sociopath”

            Agreed. But we are not talking about born children are we? We are talking about fetus’ that are dependent on another human being for life and whether or not that other human being should be allowed to decide whether or not they want to donate THEIR BODY to the dependent fetus. It’s a totally different situation.

          • Cierra Ryan

            Abortions have been around a LONG time. Sweetie.Also, what God? Abandon your pathetic fairytales.

          • Barbara

            So now you are using money to determine if you will have a child?

          • AbolishAbortion

            A baby is fully formed before it has the POSSIBILITY of being aborted, after which it is torn limb from limb until it’s completely destroyed. THAT IS HORRIBLE!

          • Cierra Ryan

            It’s a fetus! Not a child.

          • Sandy Johnson

            Then DON’T GET PREGNANT. In your quest to achieve your goals, who all are you willing to KILL? Coworkers who get in your way? I am 57 years old and many of my life goals have been destroyed. So what? Move on and make the rest of your life mean something. Watch the movie about this kid. HE has had his life changed but is choosing to be happy, even though he is paralyzed from the neck down. http://theboywhocamebackfromheaven.com/

          • Amanda E. Connelly

            You obviously never had children. Because guess what? No one ever regrets having their children. They only regret not having them. I know you’ve been brain washed, so I’ll be brief: Babies do not ruin a person’s chances at achieving goals. People do sometimes use their children as an excuse for not meeting them but it’s a lie. Kevin is right. I am pro choice, but not for the reasons YOU are stating. You’re making me nauseous. Regardless of my stance, I at least recognize the fact that the absolute pro-life stance is certainly the morally superior one. For you to suggest otherwise, in your sickeningly cold diatribe seriously makes me sick to my stomach.

          • Liz

            “No one ever regrets having their children.” False. Completely false. My best friend junior year of high school tried to commit suicide because her parents decided to tell her that they never wanted to have children.

          • Liz

            So, does that make those parents’ opinion right? Or do you plainly see it too, for what it is: a selfish, demeaning egocentrism that is unloving and immature?

            Do you base your opinion of yourself on what others think of you, or do you think you have an inherent value no matter what others think? So does an unborn child. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

          • thinkitover

            Well if they had the chance to choose to abort she wouldn’t have lived to be your best friend. I hope that she recovered and that you and others who loved her told her she was an amazing person worthy of being loved.

          • lauren

            HA. yeah. just because you’ve never met them, doesn’t mean they aren’t out there. they are.

          • Will Mickelson

            Did you know, you get the choice to not have sex? YES, you can make that choice, but it feels so damn good, who wants to give that up? I can have sex, and abort it! Lets say abortion wasn’t possible, what would be the way to not get prego than?

          • Kathi

            I can’t believe how cold hearted some of the people responding on here are or that some of your call yourself women. How heartless and selfish can you be ?

          • Amanda E. Connelly

            I know. THEIR responses are sending chills down my spine.

          • FRLBJ

            You think your goals are so important, that murder is legitimate? By saying no to the baby, you are saying no to growing up and becoming an adult. I think that is a primary goal of every human being.You are saying you wish to remain imprisoned in your selfish self. I pity your lack of maturity, fear and selfishness because you are missing out on the wonderful joyous experience of giving yourself to someone else without reservation. You are saying no to learning to love unconditionally.

          • guest

            not everyone should be or has to be a parent to have a fulfilling life…must be a cult that told you that

          • Unknown

            No you’re right, single people can even lead a fulfilling life … But to lead a fulfilling life you have to be allowed to live in the first place. We make our choices in this life, if you don’t want a baby because of any reason then that is your choice, sex is not the choice for you, if you want to have sex then you have made your choice, a baby is a beautiful consequence of this choice and we have no right from the choice To have sex till they are born till the day they die on earth to decide on whether they live or not. We make our choice by having sex, then and there you chose to give life therefore the right to take it away is not yours.

          • guest

            if someone forced me i would stab myself until both me and the child perished…but most of these idiots probably think thats better

          • Marie Noybn

            IF that is true, which i highly doubt, then you are both incredibly stupid, and incredibly selfish, not to mention obviously mentally incapable of consenting to sex so you should be fitted with a permanant chastity belt for your own protection, since you are obviously a sociopath.

          • Will Mickelson

            I say go for it, if your that dumb. So be it.

          • Will Mickelson

            There is other ways to not get prego after rape.

          • Jayde

            I don’t think that would be better. I think that suicide is equally as selfish as abortion–and if anyone tries to tell me I don’t know what I’m talking about on that, I almost committed suicide THREE TIMES. And I did have good reason. But you know what? I moved on with my life and I’m as happy as all get-out now. I still have things to do before I die. So I would be careful the assumptions you make about who thinks what’s better.

          • thinkitover

            Way to elevate the debate.

          • j.p

            your ‘dreams’ are ruined because of you choice to have sex.
            you can still go forth with your dreams even with child there are many programs that can help you. im a business owner doing what i love with a baby. it pushed me to go for it more.

            people who have never had a baby would not know the true extent of abortion.

          • lauren

            what exactly do you think the “extent” of an abortion is? miscarriages happen to people all the time. many abortions, mostly the early ones, are induced miscarriages.

          • Marie Noybn

            INDUCED “miscarriages” is a misnomer, thats like saying that a person who has a heart attack and dies is exactly the same as if you stabbed them in the heart. Idiotic non logic.

          • Will Mickelson

            And these are the women who support abortions.
            They just don’t get it and can’t wake up.
            Glad we have people like you that can understand the difference.

          • Will Mickelson

            miscarriages are way different than abortions. YOu are truely uneducated having to even compare the two.

          • thinkitover

            No dice, I lost my first child to a miscarriage and I can tell you it was not the same as an abortion as it was very much not something I wanted. Your offhand dismissal of miscarriage is just plain mean.

          • momof7

            If you truly have a set of life-goals which would be ruined by a pregnancy, abstinence or sterilization should be considered.

            Valuing the life of the pregnant woman includes not wanting her to have the trauma, PTSD, Depression, increased breast cancer risk, etc all associated with abortion.

            *Every* woman I know who has had an abortion has regretted it. (Including one who ended up sterilized and crippled.)

            *Every* woman I know who has carried pregnancies full-term (Including a few who were teenagers – some who put their babies up for adoption, some who struggled with single parenting) has not regretted it.

            Additionally, I know *several* sterile couples who have waited on domestic adoption lists (one who got a baby after 13 years, *all* the others were told there are no babies available.)

            Considering my observations, I would concur that a pregnant woman be advised to carry the pregnancy to term. And furthermore suggest that your hypothetical ‘unwanted’ preg is merely an ‘unplanned’ one.

          • lauren

            unplanned does not equal unwanted. this is just an example of how surroundings influence our opinions. i know many women who have never regretted terminating a pregnancy.

          • Will Mickelson

            And they probably treat people like trash too and care for themselves before others.

          • Will Mickelson

            John Wayne Gacey murdered a shit ton of people, and he didn’t regret it.

          • Will Mickelson

            Your argument is unplanned? WOW Lauren, please go educate yourself. Watch the Screaming abortion video.

          • Guest

            I never regret aborting the fetus that had down syndrome. I love my 3 kids and the fact they don’t have to go without my attention because I am always caring for a special needs child. Or go without thing because I am always paying Doctors bills.

          • Part138

            The people I know who adopted did not wait on any lists. The birthmothers of their daughters chose them after reading profiles provided by in one case an adoption agency, in the other a lawyer. Couple #1 adopted after about 5 years (this was in pre-internet times) and couple #2 adopted after 2 years and did advertise on the internet.

          • Marie Noybn

            this just illustrates what a phenominally selfish individual you are and what selfishness society encourages. 9 lousy months of your life are NOT more important than 90 years of the person you carry. That “unwanted pregnancy” (read, person you do not want to live but that someone else may one day love) could also have kids, grand kids, maybe even great grand kids who love them, given the chance, but no, you would rob them of that chance, rob their future spouse of their love, rob their children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren ad infinitum of their very existance… yep, selfishness doesnt even start to describe it, its all about YOU… I care about them BOTH, but i KNOW that she will go on after the 9 months (of which 1 or more has already passed before she even knows her ‘life is over”) but if she has an abortion, the child will be dead. I want them BOTH alive, that is not valuing the child over the mother, that is valuing them BOTH EQUALLY. Anti’choice my ass, what choice are you giving the child??? We are PRO LIFE.

          • eddiestardust

            Your life is equally precious along with everyone else’s including unborn children. Your life is not more equal than an unborn child.
            Your parents decided to bring you to term, please don’t forget that.

          • Jayde

            An unwanted pregnancy does not ruin a woman’s life. Claiming that a woman cannot have a child and a career, or have a child and go to school, or any of these things, is untrue. Abortion doesn’t empower women, it makes them feel less capable than they really are. There are things called “daycares” and “grandparents” and “aunts and uncles.” The problem isn’t the children. The problem is that it’s been crammed down women’s throats for so long that they “can’t” be successful AND have a child.

          • Cierra Ryan

            It empowered me, I don’t regret mine at all!

          • hobbes

            how old are you? your logic is extremely immature. if a woman thinks having a child will ruin her life, I suggest she not get pregnant. same goes for a man, don’t get a woman pregnant. killing the child is not ok just because the mother is immature. grow up.

          • Sherry Zunun

            This is a great example of why women should either keep their legs closed or be very and I say very cautious and use protection. There is so many forms of Birth Control, therefore there is NO EXCUSE for a woman to get pregnant if she is not wanting to be or ready.

          • thinkitover

            A person of 90 is valuable because they have children and grandchildren who love them but hey if they had the opportunity to “choose” all those years ago they might not have. Also, they are valuable because they are loved? So we can have an algorithm to see how much and by how many people someone is loved before or after they stop being useful and that will define their right to live. That is some seriously messed up thinking.

          • Amanda E. Connelly

            ALL of this woman’s responses are CHILLING!

          • pen44

            Well stated, Kevin! Thank you!

          • DianaG2

            Wow.

            Can I paste this into a word processor?

          • FRLBJ

            Suffering from depression, which is very treatable with cognitive therapy and chanmges in diet and activity, should not be a reason for giving someone else the death penalty.. Pregnancy is only 9 months and adoption is a very viable option.
            A person is a person no matter how small. Babies are always dependent on someone else for their nourishment and for protection! I am glad we mothers are not carrying adults around in our wombs for 9 months. That would be painful!

          • Will Mickelson

            I would just like to make laws for now based on non-rape sex. If you were willing, you shouldn’t be allowed.

            Also here is a good video

          • Gina

            She may surprise herself and her suffering may be turned into JOY! This baby may be just what she needs! There are always two sides to the coin!
            I have a child with Down Syndrome and autism all in one person, he is the best of the best!

          • someone45

            I seriously doubt that someone who is against having kids as I am would find any joy in having a child.

          • Sandy Johnson

            Then get your tubes tied or get a hysterectomy to ensure it cannot happen. You would not be the first person, however, to find that motherhood is a joy, even though you swear otherwise before becoming one.

          • Liz

            One of my good friends would LIKE to have her tubes tied. She’s known all her life that she never wanted children but no doctor will perform the procedure for her because she’s “too young”. Maybe sign some petitions to make doctors perform tubal ligation, regardless of age, and you might have a legitimate argument.

          • Will Mickelson

            Umm, she is obviously under 18, tell her to keep her legs closed until than.

          • JasmynMoon

            No, she may be legal. I’m 24. My husband is 23. Doctors won’t sterilize either of us even though we’ve asked. They insist that we may change our minds. We won’t. I’ve never wanted children, and the idea is pregnancy horrifies me. There are far too many health risks. I use nexplanon birth control which is as effective as a vasectomy. That’s the best we can do for now.

          • Cierra Ryan

            You are such a prick.

          • lauren

            motherhood probably is a joy. all of my friends with unplanned pregnancies affirm that over and over. however, bills are bills, goals are goals, and terminating a pregnancy isn’t a horrible drama. many abortions are induced miscarriages. just because a lady can’t afford to even pay her own bills right now, you’re saying she deserves a hysterectomy in order to keep having sex? that’s terrible. what about the men who don’t want children right at that moment? should they instantly run out for a vasectomy?

          • Dawn Johnson Pence

            A miscarriage is spontaneous, in other words, the body naturally eliminates the baby because there was something wrong with it. There is no such thing as an “induced miscarriage.” You are cloaking the word abortion by saying that. It’s still killing a preborn child, who has totally separate DNA from the mother the second those first 2 cells divided after fertilization.

            If you can’t afford a child, then use birth control. There are over 8 different kinds out there. There is NO EXCUSE for not using it. Laziness is not an excuse.

            What is disgusting is seeing people try to justify in their minds how it is okay to kill their child – “it’s not convenient,” or “it is keeping me from achieving my goals.” Do you realize how incredibly self-centered that sounds? It’s all about YOU then and not the life you created by your unprotected sex act. If you seriously don’t want a child, either don’t have sex, or at least use one or two forms of birth control to prevent it. At least be unselfish enough to prevent conception if you don’t want one, but if you do NOT use protection and you get pregnant, then you need to be a grown up and take responsibility and have the baby – either put it up for adoption if you can’t handle it, or have a family member raise it, or raise it yourself. I”ve been there – i’ve been single, barely making it, and ended up pregnant (I was told by my doctor I could not have any children – surprise!). I kept the baby and she is my pride and joy. In fact, she has blessed me with 2 grandchildren who i love dearly. Those 2 children were “oops” (failure to use BC the first time due to no money – now not an excuse since Obamacare mandates all insurance provides free birth control- and the second time 3 rounds of antibiotics made the birth control pill not work and she forgot about that – ooops), but she also chose to keep the babies and raise them as a single mom, and is doing a darn good job at it. She works full-time, went to college for a couple of years, and raises her kids with very little financial help from the gov’t. She has never regretted any of it. She was a grownup and took responsibility for her actions, i.e. getting pregnant.

          • Cierra Ryan

            How about women, like my mother, who are allergic to birh control? And condoms fail. A lot. There is no bullet proof protection in terms of preventing pregnancy, and frankly I am not giving it up, nor is my mother. Sex is not just for procreation.

          • Will Mickelson

          • Will Mickelson

            There are programs out there, that make it so you don’t have to worry abuot additional bills.

            EX: You and the child get government assistance, (FREE INSURANCE) ($500 IN FOOD A MONTH) WIC, and of course durring tax time, they pay you $3,000 just for having a child.

            So this bills thing is not excusable, and look what you to resort too, to make your choice feel right? Money? Reeally? Come on!

            If you can’t afford it, how are you affording to have sex?

          • Guest

            I sincerely hope then, if you do get pregnant, you have an abortion. (Again, chills. You are cold and sick)

          • Will Mickelson

            Too bad the choice wasn’t to kill yourself.
            Eye for an eye, Life for a life? Right?

          • Dawn Johnson Pence

            If you don’t have to have any kids, then get fixed so you cannot.

          • Will Mickelson

            Than don’t have sex. OMG I solved your problem.

          • Sandy Johnson

            Someone45: You do not make sense. The non-viable fetus is still human, still valuable. The ONLY way that your argument works, is if the pregnancy is endangering the woman’s life. Meaning that continuing it would KILL HER. Not that she will commit suicide or that she will be depressed or whatever. Suicide and abortion are both wrong.

          • guest

            says who? god? separate church and state! your religion should not have an effect on my life

          • Marie Noybn

            its freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM morality. You have the right to practice whatever religion you want as long as it does not infringe on the rights of others to practice theirs, or to have the basic rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Life being the first and most important of those rights. We have many laws based on basic morality all of which have their roots in the law of God, laws against rape, murder, theft, all come from God, get used to it.

          • Dawn Johnson Pence

            this has nothing to do with religion. This has all to do with the fact that the child a woman is carrying is a totally separate human being from her, and killing it is murder, whether in or out of the womb. It also has to do with the fact that no excuse makes it right to murder that child – not that it is inconvenient, nor that it would disturb your plans for your life. Grow up and take responsibility for your actions – or prevent the pregnancy from happening in the first place!

          • lauren

            then don’t kill yourself. and don’t ever have an abortion. so simple.

          • Will Mickelson

            Don’t have sex, if you can’t handle being prego. It is really that simple

          • Guest

            What, then, of the thousands of babies in NICU? Should we just unplug them all? You mean to tell me that these babies lives do not have value, because they cannot live on their own? Show me any baby, up to about one year old, who can function on his own.

            Viable or not has little to do with it.

            WANTED or not is key.

            If a person is not wanted, then it is your right to kill him. That is what abortion tells us.

          • FRLBJ

            If a woman consents to having relations. she may very well become pregnant, duh. So iif she consents to the marital act then she has chosen to carry a baby. She can’t then kill it.
            Even if she does not she still may not kill an innocent human being. The rapist is not the baby! Even rapist are not given the death penalty for their crime. So why would any thinking, loving woman let the killers go after her child?

          • someone45

            If a woman if having sex with someone she is not consenting to use her uterus and give up her life. Not all married people even want children, and I actually know more married women than non married women who have had abortions. A woman would have an abortion because carrying to term would destroy her life.

          • guest

            Carrying babies doesn’t destroy 1/10 as many lives as abortion does. Nor will it ever. your logic is based on assumptions. Go read the statistics about suicide and depression rates among women who have had abortions.

            I realize there are some seriously cold-hearted, brutal, cold blooded killers, but overall women come to regret the “choice” at some point later in life. People like you actually convince them that it’s okay commit this reprehensible act. Your type actually encourage depression and harm on people you seeming call your friend!

          • Liz

            Go read the statistics about suicide and depression among women who have given their babies for adoption. ~20% attempt suicide and 60% contemplate it.

          • lauren

            i could only imagine that carrying a baby to term would be MUCH more heartwrenching than taking a pill two weeks into a pregnancy that will induce an abortion. i feel for those ladies. i can only imagine the constant wondering and doubt.

          • Kim Armstrong

            I have a son with Down Syndrome, whom I adopted.. i would adopt more if i was able. And I DO NOT EVER THINK ABORTION IS OKAY..IT IS MURDER PLAIN AND SIMPLE..its not a fetus..its a living breathing human..all the women are wanting abortions just because of a downs diagnosis and yet there are waiting list of people who want to adopt a Down Syndrome child..THIS IS FACT!!!! Abortion IS NEVER OK….PERIOD

          • lauren

            nonsense. your logic is also based on assumptions. many early abortions are simply induced miscarriages. i’ve known many women who have had abortions, and not one of the ladies has killed herself. so your statistics and mine vary greatly. and i’m certain that “someone45″ would never tell her friend that she “SHOULD” get an abortion. someone45 is simply supporting the friend to make that choice, if she so chooses, not spewing opinions at the friend about how babies suck the life force out of you and ruin your life.

          • Dawn Johnson Pence

            no such thing as “induced miscarriage.” That’s just another word for abortion.

            I know several women who have had abortions and they have regretted it and are haunted by it now 30 years later. They still mourn the day their child was due to be born and a couple of them even named the child. One has struggled with alcohol use for years because of it.

          • Will Mickelson

            Please, your getting your facts from personal experince! GROW UP! I already know your a high school drop out that got D’s and C’s
            Please go read studys, as I can experince a lot of good things, and everyone else doesn’t. My experinces have to be set aside and look at the facts!

          • guest

            where do you think statistics come from? From everyone’s personal experiences. It gets totalled and turned into the “facts.” Also, to take part in a grown up conversation, one has to be grown up, act like it. Insulting random people is not going to get your opinion across. As for this specific insult, what are you trying to accomplish? Do you actually know this person’s grades?

          • Will Mickelson

            Umm no they don’t. They do a study, to wonder why something is or something isn’t. and a lot of times, it turns out to be different than what we thought it would be. Even on personal experiences. Please never run a study as you are to biased.

          • Sandy Johnson

            Proof read. I am curious, though, just WHAT is so important that 9 months of pregnancy would ruin a whole life?

          • Liz

            Have *you* ever lost your job, your only source of income, because you were pregnant? Its not *legal* but it happens all of the time.

          • Will Mickelson

            Ummm Actually you are consenting the use of your uterus? What you think sex is for? reproduction. DUH!!
            Are you realy, really that blind?

          • Melissa Cole

            FRLBJ, I know this is an old conversation but you’re basically telling me that I should never have sex because I can’t carry a baby and I have no right to terminate a pregnancy. BTW I can’t carry a baby because it’d extremely dangerous for the both of us. I take blood thinners because of a blood disorder and without them I have deep vein clots, that could lead to heart attacks, and strokes (I’ve already had 2 minor ones). It’s extremely dangerous to the baby to take them while pregnant so I’d have to stop but without them it’s a very real possibility that could die during pregnancy, taking baby with me. I take every precaution when having sex to not end up pregnant but nothing is 100% effective so according to your theory my only two options are to never have sex again or risk mine and baby’s lives if birth control failed.

          • Sandy Johnson

            Get yourself sterilized. End of problem.

          • Liz

            Its nearly impossible to get sterilized until you’ve reached a certain age and/or number of kids. Doctors just won’t do it.

          • Guest 67

            Doctors WILL do it for valid medical concerns… not if you just want more convenient/reliable birth control. I had a tubal ligation when I was 25 with 2 kids because of the risk that additional pregnancies would cause death for me and baby.

          • Dawn Johnson Pence

            Age 25 is the standard age when sterilization is acceptable to most doctors, and some will make exceptions even earlier than that, based on several factors, some of them being medical conditions of the mother, or if they have had several children already by that age, marital status, etc.

          • guest

            I have the same type of clotting disorder (protein C deficiency). The docs wouldn’t fix me till after I had at least one child and waited at least five years. In the meantime I could not go on birth control did what I could to avoid getting pregnant again. And this did not include avoiding sex. I was a young woman with healthy sexual appetite. I love my child but didn’t want any more due to the high risk to both myself and a baby if I got pregnant a second time. The first time I had no idea about the disorder and the docs had no idea how to treat me while pregnant and it’s just good luck that nothing severe happened. Choosing to get sterilized was a personal choice. As Melissa must know birth control is almost nill with this type of disorder because they can cause blood clots to form. BUT going into surgery with this blood disorder can be extremely dangerous especially if you had episodes of serious clots before and are already on a blood thinner as is Melissa. The options become less and less. The reason’s someone get’s an abortion might not be what you perceive as correct or may seam cold hearted but who are you to judge? You don’t know what a person is going through when they make a decision to get an abortion. This is a personal choice for any woman no matter what the reason. I don’t think it’s any one else’s business. So if someone can’t get sterilized then what? Never have sex, ever? That’s ridiculous.

          • guest

            love this comment! Valid :)

          • lauren

            wow, that’s a reach. you insist she has no right over a fetus inside her, and then claim she has must to the organs she was born with? ok help me out here…. but that seems to be a contradiction!! she can’t take out the pregnancy that just occurred, but she should take out instead something she was born with. yeesh, have your babies and i hope to god you are never in charge.

          • Dawn Johnson Pence

            Lauren, when you get sterilized, they don’t take out any organs. Get yourself educated on this before you speak of it.

          • FRLBJ

            The only 100 % method of preventing preganncy is abstinence or castration. Eventually, using whatever you are using, you may become pregant. Sterilization is not 100 %. So this relationship sounds like it is enslaving and not loving.

          • thinkitover

            If you follow the doctor’s instructions to abstain from sex for a period of time after a sterilization it is 100%. If you don’t then you’re right it may not be. Again we are back to the idea that all sex all the time is not a basic human right but a symptom of a larger problem of the inability to behave like an adult and make good choices.

          • Guest 67

            No need to give up sex… but a tubal ligation would certainly be a mature choice. I doubt you would find any doctor that would object to doing this procedure, no matter your age, given your health condition(with the exception of Catholic doctors). And, while surgery may be dangerous with your health condition, it’s no more dangerous than an abortion would be.

          • Marie Noybn

            so somehow you think continuing to take a medication that MIGHT kill a baby is worse than DELIBERATELY killing the baby ahead of time?? how does that work exactly?

          • lauren

            uh… i don’t even know where to begin with this.

          • guest

            This is such a stupid argument. Keep your legs closed. Nobody forced you to have sex, nobody forced you to get pregnant. You made the choice right there.

            And before you try to jump on the whole “rape” game, rape and other issues represent less than 1% of all choices. Allowing the killing of all baby’s under the argument of those which are a victim of rape is like legalizing murder because someone once committed a murder. It’s flawed logic.

          • Ashlea

            I think if it is in the case of rape then it should be legal, along with if the mother would die from the pregnancy

          • Debbie Peterson

            You should read reports from rape victims. Those that keep their babies full term heal faster than those that abort. I will never forget the report of a rape victim. “Forty years later, the rape has regressed to a foggy memory. The abortion? Never have gotten over that.

          • Guest

            So you’ve had an abortion and can attest to that or you were raped and had the child?

          • Debbie Peterson

            No, Thankfully, neither raped nor abortion. But I read accounts by women who had been raped and aborted and those who had been raped and did not abort. What kind of society are we where killing the most vulnerable is OK. For G-d’s sake, wake up – look at the pictures of these tiny pre-born babies who have had their limbs sucked off of their bodies, whose brains have been sucked out. Is that really what we want, as a society?

          • CK

            There are cases and studies to back whatever YOUR side of the argument happens to be. For anything. Ever.

          • Debbie Peterson

            That’s why a value system is important. What are you going to use as the plumb line?

          • Guest

            As a rape victim, I can honestly say,the rape boths me more than the abortion ever bothered. Especially since I was barely thirteen.

          • crazy farm girl

            for a child it is different. In a case like that I agree with you. at 13 that never should have happened to you. I am so sorry you had to experience that.

          • Cierra Ryan

            As a rape victim, I can honestly tell you that the rape will forever haunt me more than the abortion. But, that is a matter of opinion and the type of person you are, and the age–etc. No person is the same, and I do not appreciate people taking my rights away.

          • Debbie Peterson

            Cierra, Have you seen ultrasounds of tiny pre-born babies? These beautiful, little pre-borns, who did nothing but have the misfortune of being conceived. Somehow, it just doesn’t seem fair that their life should be sucked out or acid killed.

          • Cierra Ryan

            Want to know what else is unfair? Being raped at thirteen and as a result, getting pregnant. But, they have not experienced life. So, it’s safe to say. You don’t miss what you never had.

          • Debi

            BTW the baby was not to blame

          • mom_carmina

            I have – I have seen my son in an ultrasound, and I know what abortion is. That does not make me want to force childbearing on any unwilling woman or girl. Childbearing is a sacred gift – like lovemaking. Turning it into a duty or obligation is a horrific way to view mothering.

          • Mary

            Life is the sacred gift!

          • mom_carmina

            Do we want dead and sterile women who were turned away from doctors when they made a choice to delay childbearing? Is that the kind of society we want to return to? Demeaning childbearing into an obligation for sex?

          • eric braun

            YEAH! We already have enough conservatives with their brains sucked out!

          • bree57

            She said she “read” the reports, pay attention.

          • crazy farm girl

            YES! I was raped, and I kept my child and she is one of the greatest achievements in my life. No regrets there, then later I got pregnant and had an abortion. Because I was irresponsible and thought I could not handle two kids alone. and I never forgot that. It haunts me today. I never forget that but the rape? He got five minutes, I got a lifetime of joy. So yes I can say definitively, I have done both and without a doubt, I regret the abortion way more. I wish I had never done that. But it is too late I can not take it back. I am not religious but I know well the scar on the heart from killing your own child and note I make no excuses for myself. The only think I can do is tell the next generation. DO NOT DO IT. Mistake mistake mistake. do not make the mistake of getting pregnant by being irresponsible be compounded by committing murder on top of it. There is never any absolution. There is never relief, unless you have no soul. In that case maybe parenting is not for you.

          • Semra

            You are so brave for sharing that story and helping others be informed.

          • mom_carmina

            You had a choice. You were not forced. You would force someone to have a child against their will? Take consent away from sex, and it’s rape. Take consent away from childbearing, and it’s just as much a perversion of what should be a sacred, loving gift.

          • eric braun

            My friend was raped, kept the baby, told her girl about it later and her daughter then started shooting heroin.

            So, the bottom line is, “no one size fits all”, it’s a woman’s choice.

          • Barbara C.

            This comment is not accurate. She didn’t start shooting heroin because of being the child of rape. It’s because she is an addict and chose not to feel her feelings. As there is a heroin epidemic right now, particularly with young people, read the newspaper and you will see plenty of people who become addicted to heroin and other drugs, who are not the children of rape, necessarily. Statistically, it is not likely. If she started to use heroin, anything could have set that ball in motion. Using heroin, was her choice.

          • Mary

            You cannot prove the heroin addiction was from the knowledge of the rape.

          • Tamist

            That is anecdotal and doesn’t prove anything. Everyone is different.

          • Debbie Peterson

            Tamist, that is correct. However, there is a plumb line of values that is inescapable. However much we try to skew it – it always come backs to those G-d given values, the big 10. If folks live by them, no matter how different we are – there is a commonality of decency, civility, and respect.and… most important, a love for good and G-d.

          • Tamist

            Well we disagree right there. There are a bunch of your “big 10″ that I do not think make the world a better place.

          • Debbie Peterson

            Tamist, It doesn’t matter what you or I think. It matters what G-d thinks. He makes it pretty plain, no mysteries…which frankly, is pretty nice. So, You think lying makes the world a better place, sleeping with someone else’s husband, murder, stealing? ‘Doesn’t sound so nice to me.

          • Cierra Ryan

            If this so called god exists.

          • Tamist

            “He makes it pretty plain, no mysteries”

            Then why does he make it a mystery to us whether he exists or not? Why not give some proof? That’s a pretty big mystery if you ask me…

            “So, You think lying makes the world a better place, sleeping with someone else’s husband, murder, stealing?”

            Yea… no… those are not the ones I was referring to. Those rules are great rules to live by — most of the time. The ones I disagree with are the ones more along the lines of not taking your “lord’s” name in vein, not worshipping other idols, keeping the sabbath, etc.

          • Guest

            He’s given plenty of evidence of his existence (to name a few, a big book he wrote you may have heard of, the inexplicable complexity of the world he created, and sending his own son to earth). But he also gave you the free will to accept that evidence or not.

          • Tamist

            That isn’t evidence since there is no reason to believe a god actually wrote that book. It’s equally as likely that either a) men wrote the book or b) a race of aliens wrote the book to mislead us and control us or c) that book is actually from a future race of humans that have decided to travel back in time to play a huge joke on humanity. Among many other possibilities… sorry. The bible doesn’t count as “evidence.”

          • Mariah O.

            The fact that most civilizations had rules similar to the Ten Commandments at least 350 to 1000 years before the Ten Commandments were supposedly “given” (Hammurabi’s Code, anyone?) shows that god was not needed to “tell” people how to live moral lives. Maybe “he” wanted to “show” others how to live the life of a good Jew or of a good Christian (after the birth of Christ, of course), but god wasn’t needed to form the basis of human morality.

            The only things humans learned from god and his prophets/messengers/militants/soothsayers, etc. after the Ten Commandments were “given” were that the Sabbath is important, god’s name is important, idols are evil, foreigners (especially foreign women) are evil, and circumcisions prevent smiting. The end.

            Signed,
            A THEO 400 student, an Old Testament rock star, a Biblical illiteracy eradicator, and an Atheist who knows more about the Bible than most Christians

          • mom_carmina

            The plumb line of respect for childbearing and lovemaking is to make it consentual. What cruel and heartless G-d would ever want to make childbearing a burden or something forced on a woman or girl. I think that God respects childbearing, and we as a society have gotten very threatened by the power that gives women. That’s why there are people who want women to pay the price for sex, and will pervert childbearing into a punishment inflicted on her. That is the farthest thing from the love of God that I can think of – forced childbearing.

          • LarryEWells

            That you would even say that” the rape has regressed to a foggy memory “belies your intelligence. Only a heartless sychopath would EVER say that. You have lost all credibility.

          • Debbie Peterson

            “When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser,” Socrates. Mr. Wells, I am quoting from women off of websites that I researched. Your argument is with them, not me.

          • LarryEWells

            I do believe you have made up that quote so please reference it for Me. I have read extensively on this subject and have not ever heard of a woman who said her rape was but a foggy memory unless she was doped up. Until such reference is made I will believe the only foggy memory is yours. In case you haven’t noticed RAPE is quite traumatic !!

          • thinkitover

            I noticed at the time and I can tell you now that I really never think of it and when I do, it brings up none of the emotion it did at the time. It is possible to relegate the memories to the past and leave them there. So Mr. Wells, proof since you need it that rape can be a foggy memory,

          • thinkitover

            Though why you need proof or what you get out of badgering a woman who has managed to forget I don’t know. What kind of person are you?

          • crazy farm girl

            I disagree. I had my child and watching her grow up into a beautiful competent woman has diminished the rape significantly. But that is just me I guess. I love my daughter beyond all things. I think it would depend on some other factors. Were bones broken? that would make it far more traumatic maybe and then I can see your position. or was there a societal attack a family rejection and other factors that can make it far worse. I was lucky in that I did not experience those things. But in her case perhaps it was not a matter of horrific torture. No two rapes are the same so how can any of us say how another woman should remember or deal with or process her rape? again rape accounts for 1% of all abortions. in that case I would say it would depend on the woman and I uphold free choice. But in the case of irresponsibility which accounts for the other 99% I would say please choose birth control or sterilization rather than murder. Or even adoption would be a good option and in some cases families who want to adopt will pay your expenses and even pay you for your child. There are things we can do to not have to kill and to not have to raise an unwanted child. based on your response I felt like you had a very bad experience. I am sorry that you had to go through this.

          • LarryEWells

            While it is true that not all rapes are the same I find your story to be a bit of a stretch . However even if true you or anyone else cannot judge the effects on others. I also find it quite disturbing that the very same people who advocate total restriction on abortion (or in some cases nearly so) are the very people who vote for conservatives who slash every program to help mothers of these same children you supposedly demand be born. As far as adoption everyone knows there are millions of children that are waiting years, sometimes their entire life ,for an adopted family. The only people who normally get a child of birth age are those who are very well off and go through a private agency. How many of these children have you adopted? How many people do you know who have adopted one of these children? When was the last time you voted for a politician who advocated increasing the social safety net to help take care of these mothers and children? Have you ever welcomed one of these mothers into your own home to help them? Your answers will reveal whether you really care about these children or you just want to force your ideals on others.

          • Mary

            How many children have YOU adopted LarryEWells??? I am not crazy farm girl, but I as a single parent I have adopted Eight CHILDREN. Two conceived by rape, one abandoned in a field and found by a farmer, one was shaken and thrown against the wall by his birth father, one raped by her birth uncle, one to very young parents, one who’s birth parents had passed away, and one born to a drug addict who was born addicted. They are all beautiful children. If we as a community would welcome adoption instead of criticizing women who place their babies for adoption and for the media to stop the LIES about birth families coming and taking adopted children back, more birth parents would give up their babies to loving homes and more families would adopt. It is a more difficult decision to place a child for adoption than it is to keep a child you know you can’t take care of because of what people would think of you if you did. So take that finger and point it back at yourself! Oh and by the way I am a CONSERVATIVE!!! And in the world that I live in surrounded by other adoption families, none of them are LIBERAL!

          • Mary

            And the one found in the field by the farmer has Down Syndrome!

          • mom_carmina

            Adoption is not an alternative to childbearing. Have you offered to have a baby for someone else? I don’t see pro-life women lining up to do this, even if they tell other women that it’s wonderful.

          • Mary

            I don’t think whether some is prolife is a legitimate question that parents care about when looking for a surrogate. But If a woman is willing to give her body to give life to another family she is more than likely prolife,

          • JMNY

            We’re going entirely off the topic – this article is about women being denied the right to terminate a pregnancy where the fetus has been diagnosed with Down Syndrome. Could have ZERO to do with irresponsibility. Perhaps a husband and wife chose to get pregnant and on determination that the fetus has Downs, do not wish to continue. The woman should be FORCED to go thru labor and child birth because the state says she has to? Thats bull. And then say she does put the child up for adoption – how many children with down syndrome stay in foster care , indefinately because they are difficult to place? That’s fair ??? This whole thing bugs me. The state should not have the right to do this.

          • thinkitover

            I can tell you with certainty it can be all but forgotten.

          • Rebecca Poskitt

            I was raped 10 years ago and that has indeed regressed to a foggy memory. Are you saying I’m a heartless psycopath, too?

          • Barbara C.

            I was raped twice over 20 years ago and did not get pregnant. I don’t think about those rapes on a daily, weekly or regular basis. Though I think about it occasionally, I have come to terms with that. My husband’s girlfriend aborted their baby 30 years ago. He often thinks about the child that was lost and speaks about it. He wishes that she had not made that choice for them.

          • mom_carmina

            I will never forget the death of an aunt to an illegal abortion due to rape. It was 1970 and she was 16. If she had access to a legal abortion, she might have had many children. What about the children she never had? Didn’t they deserve a chance as much as she did?

          • Greg Bagirian

            You are right, of course, Ashlea but… that’s why progressive democraric bastards will always win… Right?

          • Sandy Johnson

            Good points, well said.

          • Tamist

            I completely agree with you that it is inconsistent to allow abortion in cases of rape but not in cases of consensual sex. The problem is, if you aren’t going to allow abortion in the case of rape then you are literally just forcing a woman to undergo a dangerous and extremely painful medical condition through no fault of her own. That is so obviously a human rights violation. This is why we should allow abortion in cases of rape. And if we allow it in cases of rape, it is only consistent to allow it in all cases. The existence of the action of rape is why abortion must be legal in all cases.

          • Cierra Ryan

            Well, thank fully I live in a State where I can abort any unwanted pregnancy. Because I LOVE sex, and I use birth control (the pill and condoms) and if I get pregnant in spite of that–fuck that fetus, and hello abortions.

          • Debbie Peterson

            Cierra, I challenge you to spend one hour, pulling up these posters on this site and reading them, studying them. You will be a changed person. http://abolishhumanabortion.com/wall/

            Just so that you are informed, here is a pre-born baby timeline:
            Week 4 – Come see me, I have arms and legs!
            Week 5 – My Heart is
            just starting to beat. My Skeleton is
            forming
            Week 5.5 – Hook me up
            – you’ll see my brain waves.. Cool!
            8 weeks – I have distinct fingers and my very own nose!
            9 weeks – I now have my very own set of fingerprints!
            Week 10 – My Brain is rapidly growing and I can start to
            taste things.
            Week 11 – I can smile for my mommy.
            Week 13 – My body structure has fully developed and I can put my thumb in my mouth.
            Week 15 – I have taste buds!
            Week 16 – I have fuzzy hair now,
            Week 17 – I now am
            starting to dream. Maybe about my mama,
            my dad, flowers, God.

            Is this really what you want to kill? Seems pretty awful.

          • Cierra Ryan

            Until It can survive outside of the womb without medical assistance, I could careless about a fetus. Frankly, I’d rather see those fetuses stem calls used in scientific resaerch. Abortion needs to be legal and safe. Also those photos do not bother me, neither does that lame timeline of a fetus.

          • mary

            Heartless bitch .. !!

          • Cierra Ryan

            Are you unaware of basic anatomy? Since I am alive, I do have a heart. Your idiocy is profoundly hilarious.

          • crazy farm girl

            that is what they want you to believe to excuse the barbarism. But if you are in it for the mindless sex and being used like a public toilet, then maybe you should not be a mother. In your case I would say you should ask for sterilization. then you can have all the sex you want until you get a disease and die without being cut up in a Goznell situation. I hope you grown out of this coldness in your soul. To be ok with killing your own child and to abuse your body like that you really must be carrying some heavy self hatred. That sucks. I hope this changes for you.

          • Cierra Ryan

            How am I being used as public toilet? I do not hate myself, I love myself. Which is hard to acheive when you become a rape victim at the age of ten. Secondly, I practice safe sex. I use prescribed birth control, and my fiance uses condoms. Plan B in case the condom breaks, since birth control is never 100%. I may get cut up, though, or killed. But, that isn’t because I have sex. That’s because I am in the Army.

            SO. Go fuck yourself, and your judgemental, narrow mindedness.

          • Mariah O.

            I fully support the decision that you made. If you would’ve chosen to give your baby up for adoption, it may have bounced around from foster home to foster home while risking abuse from foster families who pocket the money the government gives them rather than using it to care for the children. I think you made the right choice and it was your choice to make. Don’t ever let someone feel like you’re less of a person than them for having to make that choice. It’s not an easy decision and I respect you for talking about it.

          • Debbie Peterson

            Cierra, Of course G-d exists. It is easy to see him in everything. From the precision of the universe to the precision of an atom. Just looking at the complexity of the eye makes one realize that none of this happened by accident. My hope and prayer for you is that you can figure this out and enjoy the most amazing relationship ever!

          • Cierra Ryan

            I am already in the mosy amazing relationship, with my fiance and our two bratty dogs. God is of no concern, since it doesn’t exist.

          • mom_carmina

            God would never approve of forced childbearing, any more than God would approve of forced marriage or forced sex.

          • Ineedacoffee

            couldnt have said it better

          • thinkitover

            I know a lot of moms of premature babies who will be glad you don’t set policy at their hospitals. After all if it can’t survive alone outside the womb you’d kill it eh?

          • Mariah O.

            I wish this holier-than-thou attitude from pro-lifers would end. We see it everyday on billboards when we’re driving through town and enough is enough. Quit trying to use guilt and pathos to extend the pro-life agenda. You have no right to judge those who have faced the tragedy of rape. Stop acting like you and god have some kind of calling card that allows you to know what is right and what is wrong. Morality is subjective.

          • Rebecca Poskitt

            Oh, so if a man raped you and stole your wallet and then beat you within an inch of your life, you’d be okay with that because morality is subjective, right? I mean, how can anyone possibly know what’s right or wrong? People like you are the reason society is failing. You make me sick.

          • Mariah O.

            First of all, your analogy is vastly unintelligent and misinformed. An abortion cannot be compared to the analogy of a man raping you, then stealing your wallet, and then beating you.

            An abortion involves the removal of an embryo or of a fetus. If a legal abortion is completed, the embryo or fetus is too young to be considered a human from a biological and philosophical standpoint. Fetuses are not conscious until well after the legal abortion period. Since a fetus is not conscious before this point, they do not have the ability to think, make decisions, ask questions, discern right from wrong, etc. A more accurate analogy regarding morality would be to compare a fetus to a comatose patient. Although a comatose patient is biologically human in terms of their ability to look, act, and behave like a developed human, a comatose patient must rely on their guardians to make choices for them in regards to whether or not to “pull the plug.”

            Is it considered immoral for a guardian to pull the plug on a comatose patient? And is it considered moral for a guardian to keep a comatose patient alive even if their quality of life will be severely depleted? Parents must make similar decisions when choosing whether or not to abort an embryo or fetus.

            Morality is subjective in cases of abortion and of deciding whether or not to “pull the plug” on a comatose patient and the moral subjectivity of both cases is surprisingly similar.

            Instead of judging the choices of others in the cases of abortion, think of what may cause them to make those decisions. Why do you think a woman would want to get an abortion? The choices of parents to abort an embryo or fetus are not always black and white and I wish “people like you” would stop judging others for making difficult choices.

            People like you are the reason why we have a separation of church and state…And why our foster care system is falling apart…And why our health care, education, social security, and welfare systems cannot adequately benefit and provide for our population. A lot of embryos and fetuses are lost to abortion, but right now, we have bigger problems to fix that involve our current population.

            I don’t know about you, but I would rather fix the world we currently live in before worrying about the embryos and fetuses that don’t have to live in a world like this…

          • mom_carmina

            I think you took some bait from someone who is trying to get a rise out of you…

          • The Bint

            Why is it always “keep your legs closed:, why not “keep your dick in your pants”? Obviously, you don’t give a shit about female bodily autonomy. I’m probably using too big of words, so let me explain: you think women have not right to desire sex if they also don’t desire pregnancy. Why not for men? Why are men entitled to sex? You are saying men are entitled to have sex with whoever they want by completely dismissing rape victims!
            You are a terrible person & if you are a man, I hope no woman let’s you 20 feet near her vagina. After all, you might slip & fall in! If you’re a woman, I hope you practice what you preach. The rest of us are going to have sex with men who respect our reproductive rights!

          • thinkitover

            Yes, everyone is entitled to unprotected sex and free abortions. Men and women who care about their own and their partner’s reproductive rights do not have unprotected sex unless they desire a pregnancy. Men and women who don’t respect themselves or their partners enough to take responsibility for birth control should “choose” not to engage in sex. That’s what pro-choice should be about not about whether women have the right to enjoy or want sex as much as men or whether they have the right to easy abortions if they don’t feel like taking responsibility up front.

          • mom_carmina

            Consent to sex does not = consent to childbearing or even pregnancy, any more than getting in an automobile = consent to death or injury from a car accident.

          • eric braun

            “is like legalizing murder because someone once committed a murder. It’s flawed logic”
            So, you are opposed to capital punishment or should government be limited only when it’s keeping the wealthy from trampling on people and planet?

          • politicaljules

            If the woman’s mental health is so precarious because of an unwanted pregnancy, then why is sex more important than her mental health? If things are that critical that you would end your own life, then you are playing a sick game of russian roulette just for the fun of having sex. She should make a serious decision to protect her life by never becoming pregnant. Or she needs to be evaluated by a mental health professional to help her make better decisions to protect her life.

          • Tamist

            Correct. Russian roulette and sex have EXACTLY the same moral value.

            #sarcasmishouldnthavetopointout

          • thinkitover

            Not really sarcasm if it is actually how people act. Unprotected sex is Russian roulette if the plan is to kill any life that occurs because of it.

          • mom_carmina

            I tried to get pregnant for months, with no luck. If you think that becoming pregnant is subject to a woman’s will, then you are mistaken. Conception is not subject to a woman’s will – contraception fails, attempts at pregnancy fail, etc. Forcing a woman to continue a pregnancy against her will is perverting the sacred act of childbearing, just as much as rape perverts the act of lovemaking.

          • Mary

            It is not the sacred act of childbearing, it is the sacred act of LIFE!

          • A.Haran

            Oh, so rape never happens, huh? Or do you believe she can’t get pregnant from rape. MANY women get pregnant without “the fun of having sex”, as you so delicately put it. Me, for example.. I kept my child that resulted from rape. Lost all my friends and family because of my choice, too. They didn’t want me to keep my rapists baby. I kept her because it was MY CHOICE! I would NEVER put another woman through the Hell that I have been through, dealing with her “father” in the courts. I don’t regret keeping her, but I would NEVER make that choice for another woman.

          • Sandy Johnson

            Please do not equate a woman’s happiness with the life of a child. There are many reasons a person becomes suicidal. Are we to cater to people by taking away ‘hard’ parts of their lives? It should never be ok to kill someone who is innocent.

          • FRLBJ

            The mom needs support and yes, it will be joyful. Bad nutrition and lack of support could certainly make a new mom depressed. Drink fennel tea and nurse the baby! It is womderful to have a baby.
            It is does not have to be a sad event. It would be more depressing to have killed the child. Get help if you are struggling with the child!

          • Travis76

            No one is forcing anyone to do anything. The mother can make the choice not to do something that can get her pregnant. You people really don’t seem to grasp this concept. An ounce of prevention, get?

          • Me

            Oh please! Thank goodness your mother handled it well! Excuses excuses excuses. Get tuff be responsible for your actions!

          • nicknatesmommy

            Maybe the women ahould have used protection of some sort. I understand in cases if incest rape. But for any other reason there are so many wonderful families that would love to have a child to adopt.

          • pen44

            Uh…..ever hear of a thing called birth control?!? You know, that issue that obamacare, supposedly, gives everybody free…..there’s even a “morning after” pill. And, yeah, that kills as well, but, at least, it hasn’t gotten to the point of fingers, lungs, brain, or beating heart.

            If she’s that mentally ill or unstable, maybe having the tubes tied would be a better option.

            The real problem here is people not taking responsibility for their actions & behavior. If you must have sex, but you don’t want a baby, do SOMETHING to prevent pregnancy from occurring. Indiscriminate sex is dangerous for more reasons than pregnancy….HIV/AIDS, STDs. Condoms can be your best friend…and, if he doesn’t want to wear one, maybe you shouldn’t be having sex with him in the first place.

          • Marie Noybn

            your happiness is not worth someone else’s life, period. If she attempts to take her own life while pregnant she should be locked up for attempted murder. Mother and child are EQUALLY deserving of protection under the law, protecting the child’s right to live does not diminish the mothers right to live, the child isnt trying to kill her. This is an absurd argument and i feel truly sorry for anyone who believes it is their “right” to kill someone merely because of that persons age or location. Absurd.

          • Will Mickelson

            It is based on a child she doesn’t want? But what if she wants a child, but than finds out, oh he is defected? ABORT ABORT!!!
            I mean come on, you make the choice to have a baby and take all other chances with it! You would be amazed how a child with down syndrome can be a blessing.

          • eddiestardust

            Oh excuse me, I thought that contraceptives are used to prevent pregnancy? I guess I was wrong?
            One sure fire, 100% way of not getting pregnant is not having sex or didn’t you think about that?

          • Guest

            Um, so you’re saying we, as a society, should disregard the real reason for the woman’s fear and depression, and just give her an abortion, because it is a cure-all for that?
            Does that not sound messed up?
            On the flip side, I have known women who were so depressed because of their abortion that they thought about suicide. What makes your argument more valid?

          • Patrick Winter

            Your ‘unhappiness’ doesn’t give you the right to murder someone. And how would you know it would make you unhappy if you killed it before you had the chance to experience it

          • Lydia_Grace

            Depression and suicide are a very serious issue. We need to give the woman help because her life is very precious. However, killing the child will not do this. The woman has a mental health issue. Mental health cannot be cured by ending a pregnancy. While the pregnancy may be making her problem more visible, her problem is depression, not pregnancy, and we need to address her depression. Otherwise, if we just try to cure everything by addressing something other than the problem, afterwards she will still be depressed and we will have failed her.

            In this situation, there are two human lives, both of equal value and both in peril. We have a moral obligation to do everything we can to save both of them, which means getting the mother the help she needs for her depression to save her life and putting in place the protections needed to save the baby’s life. All lives need to be saved and protected. If we pick and choose (either the baby or the mother), we are being hypocritical.

          • crazy farm girl

            if a woman goes into a store a gets her a box of Trojans, or perhaps goes to her clinic and gets one of those shots she can be as big a whore as she likes without running the risk of creating a life to murder. It costs less than abortion and it is easy and painless with no risk of the mom dying during the abortion also. You people who say “woman’s right woman’s rights… yea women have rights, to have sex with whomever they want. But once she chooses that, there is a responsibility. if you create life in the pursuit of you carnal pleasure then you are responsible for that life. Legally you can murder your child but it will harm the soul. Instewad of teaching our young girls to be promiscuous, (harming them psychologically and objectifying them) perhaps you can teach them that they have the right to NOT have sex with just anyone as well and that they have the right to protected sex, what you say is harmful because you act as if there is no personal responsibility associated with rights. Women are free to date who ever they like. no one is forcing most of these girls to go out and have unprotected sex. That was a right and a choice they took and it comes with a risk. A risk of getting pregnant, a risk of getting diseases, a risk of being used like a tissue, a risk of being harmed. You teach and push irresponsibility and that also kills women. Promiscuity leads to depression and low self esteem. think about it.

          • Nancy Neira

            I totally agree with you Kevin. I have three children and the thought of ever aborting any of them sickens me too the core. The unborn child is still living; that is why the baby has a heart beat and is able to grow inside of the woman. I am glad to hear there are others who have the same feelings as me when it comes to abortions.

          • Dennis Bullard

            Very few if any would adopt a Downs Syndrome child It would remain in an institution for the rest of its life

          • Lydia_Grace

            Actually, there’s a waiting list for adopting children with down syndrome. There are more people who want to adopt them than there are children with down syndrome to adopt.

          • Liz Espinoza

            Kevin, Then you have the baby, adopt it it you feel so passionate about this. Put your money where your mouth is and adopt every unwanted child (especially the ones with disabilities). After you’ve witnessed a lifetime of suffering and endless sleepless nights and a lifetime in pain , sick and in and out of hospitals caring 24 hours a day loosing your job, your home, and everything else, then you get back to me. Until then I don’t see how you can pipe in on something you know nothing about.

          • mom_carmina

            There is no way to assign equal rights to the use of one body to two entities. Not logically possible. Either the state or the woman decides if she will remain pregnant. It should always be in the hands of the woman. Illegal abortion potentially ends both lives – history has shown this.

          • mom_carmina

            There is no way to assign equal rights to the use of one body to two entities. Not logically possible. Either the state or the woman decides if she will remain pregnant. It should always be in the hands of the woman. Illegal abortion potentially ends both lives – history has shown this.

          • Daniel P. Durham

            Of course the woman has rights. It’s just that the baby’s right to life is more important than the woman’s right to convenience. When it is possible for the woman to remove the baby without killing it and pass it to someone who does want it, she can do so. But until then, the woman has no more right to kill the baby for her convenience than a driver does to run over pedestrians just because they are in the way.

          • someone45

            If the fetus is non-viable and depends on the woman to sustain its life than she has every right to decide if her body is used that way. Once it is viable I will agree she doesn’t have that right, because than she could take it out and give it to someone else.

          • forlifeforever

            When any man or woman has sex they are saying yes to the possibility of a child. If you can’t or don’t want that possibility then just say no to sex. Problem solved

          • Sandy Johnson

            Well said! We are intelligent beings that can reason and make decisions. Choose the right ones!

          • Witznd

            I wonder if I can use that same logic for not supporting people on welfare? I mean I don’t want my money to be used that way. There seems to be a LOT of “non-viable” people that need my money to sustain their life! It certainly should be MY choice whether to sustain them or not.

          • guest

            hmm, seems to me that a lot of people on welfare, are only on welfare because they are single moms. When both the man and woman don’t want a baby, but then get pregnant, the man runs away leaving the woman to raise the child on her own. So are you anti abortion, or anti welfare?

          • Dawn Johnson Pence

            NO, bad argument. It isn’t her body that is being destroyed – it’s the body of a totally separate human being with totally different DNA than the mother. It’s not hers to kill.

          • thinkitover

            Have you ever seen a full -term new born baby? Totally dependent on the mother or some other adult to live. So if
            mother decided to kill it that would be ok right? After all it is not viable and cannot sustain itself unless she or someone makes that effort to keep it alive. How about at 2 months after birth? Still not able to sustain itself.

          • prairiesongbird

            What an excellent argument. Really appreciate that! Won’t be running over any pedestrians any time soon. Excellent!!

          • Michael

            i mean they /do/ have the right to abort so everything you just said is invalid LOL

          • guest

            so when she gives birth to the ds child and it kills her we should send the child to you to raise. everyone get this guys name and address

          • guest

            It is a baby. I really wish we would stop honoring the group of pathetic genocidal maniacs by meeting them in the place where we devalue life by giving the BABY some disconnected additional term. It’s a baby. Further it is a HUMAN BEING by the very definition of the two words. And further yet the BABY is an individual. If you test the DNA of the baby it isn’t the mothers DNA or the fathers DNA it is individual and unique DNA.

          • politicaljules

            The baby is not trying to kill the woman is the difference.

          • Sandy Johnson

            A woman carrying a baby is not breeding stock. She is a mother which should be considered a great honor. Yes, for many reasons a woman might think the pregnancy a problem. However, what really is 9 months out of a lifetime? Not that much in that perspective and don’t forget the aching arms of women who cannot get pregnant. I think the only reason that the abortion industry doesn’t push for ‘painless’ procedures for the fetus, is that they cannot allow for that fetus to be ‘humanized.’ How sad that a civilized society would allow the most vulnerable among us to be killed.

          • Amanda E. Connelly

            Could you believe she used that phrase?? There’s something wrong with her

          • Travis76

            How does anything said here so far equate to saying the baby’s life is worth more than the mothers?

          • Heather Skittles Groat

            If a woman can have sex, with or without protection, she can bare the responsibility of the pregnancy. She does not have to keep the child. Life begins with conception and to kill a fetus is to kill a baby. If a woman does not want to risk a pregnancy, she shouldn’t have sex. Actions beget responsibility, even if it’s only for a few months.

          • Will Mickelson

            It is because you could of chosen to keep your legs closed.
            You could of chosen to not get pregnant after sex.
            So since you made them choices, abortion should be taken off the table.

            Abortion should not be based on a baby being disabled. Why will you woman fight any reason? When is too far, going to far? I mean really! Grow the fuck up!

            You know you went to far, when you want a baby, but it isn’t the kind of baby you want. So ABORT! ABORT!!

          • Guest

            Did you seriously just say that?
            What makes the baby’s life less than hers? Um, ok… on the counter, what makes a baby’s life less than a mother’s? She made her choices. She lived her life. Now, simply because she has been given the gift of reproduction, she gets to decide who is worth living and who should die?

            We live in a society that says “if you are an unwanted, inconvenient, or disabled person, you do not deserve to live.” That is soooooo, sooooooo SAD.

            I’m not anti-choice. I’m pro-people-living.

          • Patrick Winter

            The mother’s is going to die because she gave birth a a challenged baby?

          • GeeGee

            The woman AND the Man,undeniably made numerous “choices” BEFORE they created a Life together.

            Pro life ‘people’ just want the child to have its God given (legal- Constitutional) right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, the same as you do.

            Besides, he/she cannot speak for themselves, that’s what makes them so vulnerable. They don’t get to speak their minds as loudly as you do.

            How can someone think very highly of themselves if they have been convinced to willingly destroy their own offspring? Have they been convinced that they are their OWN god?

            To add insult to injury “Pro Choice” people, preach this ‘freedom’ to our nations adolescent women. Continuing the practice of willingly.destroying future generations of Americans.

            Our enemies are very pleased..

          • bree57

            9 months isn’t a life sentence for her, but it is for the child. If she doesn’t want to deal with the risks, she should keep her knees together.

          • crazy farm girl

            where is her responsibility for having unprotected sex? Everyone wants tights and o one wants to be responsible. Less than one percent of abortions are because of a rape or incest.. the vast majority are from irresponsibility. Irresponsibility is not a good reason to murder a child.

          • Daniel P. Durham

            This is what you never seem to get: The mother and the “fetus” have exactly equal rights. It’s just that the fetus’s right to life outweighs the mother’s right not to be temporarily inconvenienced. Once the baby can be safely removed, then fine, give it up for adoption or foster care. But the right to convenience does not outweigh the right to life.

          • thinkitover

            What is so wrong with using effective birth control? Why in all the pro-choice, right to decide rhetoric does no one ever just admit that there is no need for an unwanted pregnancy if the people involved in making the “decision” to have sex take responsibility before instead of after a pregnancy takes place.

          • mom_carmina

            Why do you think a fetus has more rights than any born child to the use of a woman’s body? If I am dying from want of a bone marrow transplant, I cannot force you to donate to save my life, even if you are the only match. What makes your right to your body legally more important than my right to live? Think about that.

          • eric braun

            It is very simple and easy to understand.

            The fetus cannot survive on it’s own. The woman can.

            And, successfully giving birth includes the risk of death.

            Risk-takers get privileges when their risks serve others. You are not one, that’s why you don’t have any…

        • FRLBJ

          When she has relations she decides whether to have a child or not. If she does not want a child, no marital relations for her! She has not right to kill her already conceived child that she is carrying. The point of the marital is reproduction! Go study Biology 101.

        • Sandy Johnson

          Sim, I can see that you are passionate about this issue. I am, also. The right to choose should never cause harm to another person. The fetus, baby, child (whatever you call them), is vulnerable and SHOULD be PROTECTED by the mother. As someone who hates abortion, I do not hate those who are pro-choice. My heart breaks for every woman who buys into the lie that abortion is ok.

        • Witznd

          Interesting word choice…”goddamn”.

        • Travis76

          A woman gets to decide not to have the baby inside by using a condom or not having sex. She has no right to do it & then kill a child born or not. It’s just like a liberal jackass to mock by stating “we’re talking grown up stuff” to dismiss anyone who disagrees with them. Try growing up & taking responsibility instead of dismissing your betters.

        • Sam Burleson

          hey the abortion are murder child you are murder your own baby it is not fetus it is real being human baby they grow in side of you why you want abortion huh all baby are gift from GOD please dont abortion that is murder that meamn you kill your own baby you will never forgive your self if you did this

        • Me

          Yes. You have the right and doesn’t that make you the tuff one over a poor defenseless baby. Why don’t you just use pertection and keep your legs shut and behave yourself. Problem solved!

        • joshuatree

          The choice was sex. Just because you are a woman does not mean you can abort the consequences of your decision. You did come close to making a point. God will do something about it and could very well damn you. The ten babies you aborted will stand as a witness against you at judgement day.

        • Paula

          The woman does get to decide if there will be a child! That choice came when she and her partner conceived that child! NOT after she finds out she is pregnant and CHOOSES to change her mind after that soul is placed in that womb!

        • Debbie Peterson

          Actually, you are correct, you can kill 10 babies if you want, and right now, there isn’t anything we can do about it, thanks to a hastily made decision by a U.S. Congress who had no business passing abortion laws at the Federal level. We are working diligently so that women will realize the unique gift they have been given by carrying a precious baby. And if that mother doesn’t want her baby, the goal is is to have many volunteer agencies set up to help her adopt her baby to a caring family. My hope for you is that you never have to experience the pain and tragedy of abortion.

        • Lori Leigh Douglas Carpenter

          no but God can

        • skittlebreath

          that makes you a monster

        • DianaG2

          A woman with a fetus inside of her is a MOTHER.

        • Gabrielle

          I bet your Mom is proud of you.

        • Johnny

          You could stop having sex. Pregnancy is a possible outcome of having sex. If you don’t want to have a fetus inside your body, if you don’t want to deal with the every possibility that may come from having sex, there is a guaranteed way to prevent that: DON’T HAVE SEX. Don’t take things out on the fetus for your stupid actions.

        • Justin

          Nothing like a little “Might is Right.” Whoever has the power decides what happens to those who are weaker. Mother and child, Master or slave, Nazi or Jew . . . same logic. People who have domination will justify their hurtful actions they inflict on others by relabeling the victims as something other than human. A baby is now a fetus, a Black person was called something I won’t type here, Jews were referred to as “rats.” This renaming releaves people of feeling guilty when they do horrible things to others. My point is it’s just history repeating itself.

        • Sherry

          I will be praying for you cause you need to find GOD……. You have no right to cuss GOD cause he is the reason you have life. Stop cursing GOD and start praising HIM for giving you a chance to live your life something you obviously care nothing about.

        • papakevin

          Yes there is. I will pray, I will sidewalk counsel, I will blog, I will spend my last dime and last breath fighting abortion. It is harmful to women, families, the culture, our Nation. Not to mention what it does to incalculably Precious Children. It grieves the tender heart of my God and offends His Justice.
          Please visit our website conceivedinrape.com

        • crazy farm girl

          Then the woman needs to decide to use birth control. Perhaps if a woman does not want children she should get sterilized. If you want to have sex, and you do not want kids you know there are options to prevent murdering babies. If you have a baby with a defect and you do not want them, then put em up for adoption. Women and men need to be responsible with their genitals. This is the most stupid excuse to be irresponsible. Freedom and rights carry responsibility. Sim, the interesting thing is that people who want to murder their own children, (like you state above) were not aborted. And yea, if you want to be a whore who gets pregnant by many random men and murder your children, there is nothing we can do about it. But you will suffer for it at some point. Karma is a bitch, and sometimes she has puppies. Personally the idea of people like you paying hundreds or thousands to get your babies vacuumed out of your uterus is laughable when you consider a condom is less than 2 bucks. Don’t expect to be respected if you cant respect yourself. And if a woman needs 10 abortions because she can not get birth control or figure out how a condom works should probably be sterilized as she clearly lacks the skills to be a mother anyway. On the bright side, it is only a matter of time until she goes to a Dr. Goznel and dies on a dirty table for her efforts. Sorry if this comes across as mean. I feel anyone who is good with murder deserves no kindness respect or courtesy.

        • thinkitover

          Yep you can, that’s the sick thing about it. I have no problem with a woman deciding not to have a fetus inside her,,, that is what birth control is for. What I disagree with is the unlimited right to unprotected sex and unlimited abortions because someone can’t grow up and take responsibility for their sex life.

        • happymom

          I’m sorry, but to me abortion has nothing to do with what a woman can and can’t do. It’s the fact that there’s is a living person growing inside your body, and it is your responsibility to take care of it not destroy it! If you don’t want that responsibility then don’t have sex or go get fixed. I have two beautiful boys and can’t imagine not having them in my life.

        • Kanoa

          A woman also has the right to keep her legs closed and do what she can NOT to become pregnant. If they do not want a child then they should be sterilized simple as that!

        • Kanoa

          I also believe a person should be able to spell fetus , before they can get an abortion along with being sterilized!

        • Debi

          NO GOD DOES AND IF SHE DIDN’T WANT TO GET PREGNANT SHE SHOULD HAVE TAKEN ALL PRECAUTIONS, AS FOR YOUR IGNORANCE i will state this. Psalms 139 13-14 For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
          I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful I know that full well.

      • eeeee

        So… does that mean that parents with a terminally ill child who is in pain and suffering shouldn’t have the right to let that child pass away to keep him or her from suffering any more? Or an elderly person at the end of their lives doesn’t have the right to stop life saving treatments? We are already deciding who is worthy of life every day by prolonging or ending medical treatments for ourselves and for others. After watching my grandfather suffer for months and months due to a medical decision we made to try to save his life, I believe that there are worse things than death and that sometimes its MERCY and not selfishness that drives these decisions.

        • PrincessJasmine4

          If an elderly person wants to end their life to avoid more pain and suffering, that is his or her decision. It should not be decided or influenced by anyone else. I’m not a proponent of assisted suicide though, so don’t get me wrong.
          My husband and I took care of his mentally ill older brother for years and years. He really deteriorated towards the end. The first incident led him to be in the hospital for a month (there were several of those) and the rest of the family wanted to pull the plug on his life support (at the doctors suggestion too). My husband and I didn’t let it happen. He had such a will to live despite his condition. He got better, we took him home an continued to care for him till he passed away in his sleep one night.
          Similar thing happened with my grandmother when I was about 15. When she had a stroke, the doctors in Switzerland did not what to save her. Luckily her other 4 other daughters (one was already with her) and 1 son all flew out there to be by her side. They fought the doctors and brought her back home. One of her daughters quite her job to take care of her. My grandmother went on to live another 15 years. She was not sad or miserable. It would not have been a mercy to end either of their lives.

          How does the parent know their terminally ill child is suffering? Can they communicate that? Or is it the doctor telling the parents that?

          • eeeeee

            Yes, I’ll agree that we’ll have to disagree. My point isn’t
            to advocate terminating a pregnancy simply because a baby has a chromosomal
            defect, but rather, where is the line drawn if you start chipping away at this?
            We’ve done so much in the medical world to prolong life and wipe out disease
            that many babies that would have otherwise have been naturally and
            spontaneously aborted by the woman’s body are now brought into this world and
            may have to live minutes, to weeks, to years with a body and a mind that genetically
            are not whole. And yes, I believe there can be pain and suffering there.

            You cite your life and your brother-in-law as your argument.
            I think it’s a noble thing to care for someone who can’t care for themselves or
            has a serious mental and/or physical health problems. But you aren’t the only
            people in the world. Your challenges and suffering and life decisions are not
            the same as everyone else’s. Your story is not the same as everyone else’s
            story. No one is imposing their will on
            you and your children, no one is forcing you to abort a child or make a
            decision whether to bring a child into this world that has challenges. However,
            the opposite is true for parents who really have to make an extremely difficult
            decision. In a perfect world, abortion would be legal but no one would ever
            feel the need to have one because there would always be a loving family ready
            to take the child into their home once its born, and genetic diseases and
            disorders would be eradicated, and drug addicts and alcoholics will get clean
            when they are pregnant and not give birth to sick and deformed children. But
            this isn’t a perfect world yet. Children are born with devastating diseases and
            they are also born to sick parents who have no business being parents.

            I’ve been blessed (knocking on wood RIGHT NOW) that I gave
            birth to two health happy baby girls. But I also know a few friends that had children
            with terminal genetic disorders. Their children were in pain, and they
            suffered, and they eventually passed away. And their lives will never ever be the
            same. I’m sure you are well read and are
            aware of all of the various genetic disorders that children can be born with,
            but I am going to paste this link anyway. Some of these are mild, some are
            severe. The one I was initially thinking of is the disease where the limbs curl
            involuntarily inward and the person involuntarily mutilates himself, so he has
            wear a mouth guard to keep from chewing his own flesh off (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesch%E2%80%93Nyhan_syndrome)
            is not even listed on the list below. Would I bring that child into the world
            if I knew in advance? I can’t say. But
            for the parents making these types of decisions it is THEIR decision to make,
            not someone else’s.

            http://rarediseases.info.nih.gov/gard/diseases-by-category/36/chromosome-disorders

          • PrincessJasmine4

            I realize that I’m not the only person here in the world.. I cited my own experiences because you cited yours.
            You’re right, we’ve come along way and people are living a lot longer than before.
            Why do you think families would be better off having their genetically deficient child killed off than given the opportunity to live.
            Every law on the books is an imposition of someone’s morality on another.
            Yes, I’m very well aware of genetic disorders.
            I’m a student of embryology.

            If we allow parents to kill their offspring bc of a genetic disability, who’s to say we should not allow them to kill their child for being the wrong sex or if they fear their child could turn gay? What if the parents are afraid that their child will become a transexual? Are these all justifiable reasons to end the life of one’s offspring?

            I’m sure you are aware that there are people on your side who will justify infanticide. After all, if we can end their life in the womb, what’s a few days after birth? They wont know the difference.
            http://jme.bmj.com/content/early/2012/03/01/medethics-2011-100411.full
            Infanticide is the logical progression, to them of abortion. Not my thought process. Theirs.

            You are correct. Where does one draw the line?

          • Dawn Johnson Pence

            Medicine still has not figured out how to make a body not spontaneously abort (i.e. miscarriage) a baby that is defective. It happens and there is no way to stop it. Your argument above is incorrect (referring to your comment: “We’ve done so much in the medical world to prolong life and wipe out diseasethat many babies that would have otherwise have been naturally and
            spontaneously aborted by the woman’s body are now brought into this world and
            may have to live minutes, to weeks, to years with a body and a mind that genetically
            are not whole. And yes, I believe there can be pain and suffering there.” )

        • PrincessJasmine4

          If an elderly person wants to end their life to avoid more pain and suffering, that is his or her decision. It should not be decided or influenced by anyone else. I’m not a proponent of assisted suicide though, so don’t get me wrong.
          My husband and I took care of his mentally ill older brother for years and years. He really deteriorated towards the end. The first incident led him to be in the hospital for a month (there were several of those) and the rest of the family wanted to pull the plug on his life support (at the doctors suggestion too). My husband and I didn’t let it happen. He had such a will to live despite his condition. He got better, we took him home an continued to care for him till he passed away in his sleep one night.
          Similar thing happened with my grandmother when I was about 15. When she had a stroke, the doctors in Switzerland did not what to save her. Luckily her other 4 other daughters (one was already with her) and 1 son all flew out there to be by her side. They fought the doctors and brought her back home. One of her daughters quite her job to take care of her. My grandmother went on to live another 15 years. She was not sad or miserable. It would not have been a mercy to end either of their lives.

          How does the parent know their terminally ill child is suffering? Can they communicate that? Or is it the doctor telling the parents that?

        • FRLBJ

          Suffering is not intrinsically evil. Murder is. We let nature take its course, but always provide food, water and make them as confortable as possible. We can’t know when someone should die. We are human beings, not God.

        • JustMakingSense

          Thank you for bringing this up!!! I just heard a story a few weeks ago about a woman who carried her pregnancy to term, despite the fact that her child was only going to survive minutes outside the womb, and every minute would be spent in excruciating pain. She had the baby, and then had to make the painful decision to take it off life support. So what’s the difference? I don’t see ANYBODY calling her and her husband a murderer, or picketing their hospital room with pictures of dead babies. Everybody is so supportive because she allowed her child to be born, even though every minute of its life was in pain. So which is more humanitarian? I’m sorry, but I don’t think it is ANYBODY’S business to tell a woman she has to carry her pregnancy to term despite an enormous health defect, and cause her suffering to be worse by watching her child die right after it’s born. If the woman so pleases, sure, let her do it. But nobody should be forced to go through a pregnancy like that, and experience even more anguish. Stop demonizing women who unfortunately have to make that incredibly painful decision.

      • Lori Leigh Douglas Carpenter

        amen

      • CK

        Does No one see the irony over the fact that the writer of this article has a husband who is in the military? So EVERY life, even an unborn life matters, and is to be fought for????.. UNLESS, you are a different color, believe in a different god, and don’t live in “Merica? Got it. Solid point.

      • Mohammed Ali

        but the penis decides? :D

      • Semra

        exactly so why should mothers take it away from the child

      • mom_carmina

        No one has the right to force a woman into childbirth – not another woman, not a man, not the state, and not you. It’s not a gift if it’s forced, or becomes an obligation. Such a sacred thing as childbearing should never be perverted into something akin to rape.

    • eddiestardust

      God gives life, he alone has the right to say when it’s time for life to end.
      Ms Reilly, count your blessings and quit being judgemental please!

      • Liz

        Have more faith and stop taking all pharmaceuticals, including antibiotics and vaccines, then. If you’re meant to die then only God can kill you. Do you have enough faith to really believe the words you say?

        • Marie Noybn

          so… according to you, my options are these… either let anyone who wants to kill someone kill them, or do without medical care. And you dont see a false dichotomy here?

        • Dawn Johnson Pence

          Oh, good Lord. You must be a Christian scientist. God gave us those things to help prevent suffering and diseases. There is nothing wrong with them.

    • eeeee

      You know Sim, this is obviously not the best group to discuss this with but where exactly does this ban end (or rather, is it a slippery slope)? I don’t believe in abortion FOR myself, but I also know that I have not walked in every womans shoes. So, if this is going to be the status quo going forward, then perhaps we should just remove genetic testing altogether. I know I was tested for a LOT of genetic defects with both of my girls (especially because I am over a certain age an apparently more prone to defective chromosomes) I’m assuming so I could make an informed decision about my health and the health of my unborn child. Some of this testing is meant to reveal things a lot worse than down syndrome. So is everyone on here saying that all life, no matter how painful to the child, is okay because its sanctioned by God? Before modern medicine women didn’t carry babies to term like they do today. Were those aborted babies also sanctioned by God? We’ve made leaps and bounds in prenatal health care and medical advances in general. Fetuses that probably would have been naturally aborted by the female body are now being carried to term because we’ve gotten SO good at taking care of these little girls and guys. So we can now preserve more life in the womb but at what cost? And I’m not talking about financially either. I don’t think woman should make arbitrary choices about terminating a pregnancy based on gender, but I do think that every woman has to look inside herself to know what the best decision is for the little person inside of her. I just don’t like the direction in which this is going. Is the law going to read tomorrow that you can’t terminate a pregnancy if your life is in jeopardy? Or if the child inside you is sentenced to a life of agony (based on whatever genetic issue is found)?

      • Josie08

        “these little girls and guys?” IMHO it’s bad enough when unborn children’s humanity is basically ignored, but MOCKED?

        • eeeee

          Whose mocking anything? I am not making a joke in any way. I don’t disagree that these are lives insides of us. I don’t believe I would have ever, personally, had an abortion if I had found out that one of my girls had a chromosomal defect. However, DS is only one of many types of chromosomal defects – there are many much worse. My point is – where do we draw the line on eroding this law? I’m sure that plenty of people on here would say that all life should be preserved – no matter what the cost. What I am saying is that our bodies were designed to carry healthy babies to term and shed what it considers unhealthy. Woman have spontaneous abortions all the time because the womans body realizes that the “fetus” is not healthy (would you prefer me to use the medical term? I can do that too, if its easier to swallow), its part of natural selection. We’ve made great strides in prenatal care (coming from a mom with two high risk pregnancies I think this is great) which allows us to bring babies to term that our bodies may have naturally aborted in the past. I’m not trying to be cruel by saying this, but really there are reasons that the AMA recommends that women have these tests when they are pregnant. In my opinion its so the families can make the most informed decision about whether to carry the baby to term or not. It would be nice to think that all families have the finances and emotional strength to take care of special needs children. I don’t think they do. And the argument that many people that can’t have kids are suffering because of a womans right to abort an unhealthy baby is ridiculous. If I’m not mistaken, our child welfare system is riddled with special needs children, older children, sibling pairs, etc. that can’t get adopted as it is right now. So stop demonizing everyone that disagrees with you. People who say, “wait, lets try to think about this another way” are not the devil. We don’t hate babies for goodness sake.

          • Josie08

            when you said “little girls and guys” it sounded to me as if you were mocking the people who consider them to be human before birth.

    • april

      I agree strongly with you, who r we to judge, I love my son with down syndrome, but not everyone is so strong to be blessed with such a wonderful child, and that’s their choice.

    • Travis76

      No you don’t judge the women, you just the child as being unworthy to live it’s an inconvenience to the bother. “Life Not Worthy of Life”. Nice going NAZI. I weep for your child.

    • eddiestardust

      The mother has a right to choose not to go to bed with a man, if she has sex and decides to abort that is murder pure and simple. Be careful, for if you decide abortion is ok then what is to prevent someone from saying your life is equally worthless too?

    • Guest

      Mother’s right to choose? So if she doesn’t find out the baby has Down’s until the baby is born, she can off it, then, right? Might as well make infanticide legal. It’s only a difference of a matter of minutes.

      I don’t judge them, either. But I do judge a society that thinks it’s okay to kill people… or “not carry through with their pregnancy.” How about we help these women, instead?

    • Guest

      Very well stated, It’s easy for most to say “abortion is wrong” but most have no idea what a huge life long commitment it is having a child with down syndrome not to even get into the enormous monetary cost involved.

      • Beverly Harlton

        My sister has Down’s Syndrome, and she hasn’t cost any more to raise than I did. If anything, I was the more expensive child because of my participation in the high school marching band. Yes, some people with Down’s may have heart conditions, many of which are fixed with neonatal surgery, but even neurotypical children can have unexpected health costs. Like my sister, some people with Down’s will never be independent, but how many adult children move back in with their parents after college or never even leave the nest due to the tanking economy?

        What has happened to our society that has caused us to view human beings as mere financial burdens? My sister and people like her aren’t dogs that we can just exterminate because they cost too much to take care of; they’re people just like you and me! I advise you to find a person with Down’s Syndrome and befriend him or her (pro-tip: it won’t be hard). Then get back to me and let me know if the world would be a better place without that individual.

    • Nancy Neira

      I disagree with you. Once a woman becomes pregnant there if LIFE growing inside her. That unborn child may be nothing to you but that unborn child is LIVING. That child didn’t ask to be conceived and there are a lot of people who would love to adopt a child regardless of what their gender is or if they have Down’s or not. Nobody has the right to decide who has the right to live or die

    • motherof4

      you apparently don’t have kids. just because the woman may not want the child, she should still have to carry it. if she doesn’t want the child then she can give it up for adoption. a fetus has a heart beat at 23 days old. that is long before the mother even knows that she is pregnant. just think of it this way, if you saw a child on the street with down syndrome, would you have the right to kill it just because you don’t like the slight defect? no you would not. you would ignor it and walk off. so you can carry a baby with the same defect and give it to a family that will love it even with the defect. down syndrome children and adults are some of the most caring people around. they will love you no matter what. and if the woman didn’t want kids at all then she should keep her legs closed or make sure that the man has a condom and that she is on birth control.

    • hobbes

      are you sick? so you think a woman has the right to decide who is worthy of life? what if the father decides the child isn’t good enough to live, does he have the right to murder that child, or just the mother? I cannot believe people like you, who actually think anyone has that right. you are sick.

    • Patrick Winter

      RIght to choose what? An abortion doctor?

    • AbolishAbortion

      No it is not a mothers right to choose. Murder is never anyone’s choice. A baby is fully formed in the womb before it can be aborted, it has a heart, a brain, feelings. It knows pain, and being torn limb for limb sure as hell can’t feel good. People like you, if I dare call you a person cause that implies humanity, sicken me.

    • Reginald Taylor

      The only right the mother has is to choose to have sex (or not) in the first place………..Beyond that, the mother is not God and has NO RIGHT to play God or decide the eternal plan for a life on behalf of God.

      And where did this “right” you speak of come from? The government??? Where did they get this “right” from and who gave them this “right” to give it out to others??? Was it the Constitution??? – a piece of paper written by the hands of men that are dead and didn’t have even enough rights or power to live beyond their own years?

      I guess that means that I can write on a piece of paper (or a reply to an Internet post) that “No one has the right to take the life of one God has given life to” and that should end the dispute of “right” to choose.

      If it’s that simple to establish or define rights over life, then its settled then……….No more killing!

    • irene

      If getting an abortion because the baby has down syndrome doesn’t sound wrong to you then you are really messed up in the head. Ive had an abortion and I chose to because I am too young and cannot raise a child. If I was past 5 weeks I would have kept it and if I found out it had down syndrome I would have kept it! Getting pregnant was a choice. Throwing that baby away BECAUSE of the birth defect is horrible

    • bree57

      The “mother’s” body is used for 9 months, she can then give up the child if she doesn’t want it, to the father, or some loving family. It’s not a life sentence for her, but it is for the child.

    • beba

      If you think that it is the mother’s right then why are you even looking at this website its called “liveactionnews”. obviously its against abortion. Sim Reilly be thankful that your mom didn’t kill you in the womb. IF your mom didn’t why should any women have the choice to kill a baby. Only God gives life and takes it away.
      If a women doesn’t want to have a baby then don’t have sex.

    • papakevin

      It is ALWAYS wrong to kill an innocent human being. It doesnt matter if that person is in the playground, the school bus, the cradle the womb or any other place.

  • Pro-Life

    Way to go! Abortion should never be an option anyway! Too many folks that cannot conceive and would love to have a baby!

    • someone45

      Abortion should always be an option as long as the fetus is non-viable. I’m sorry some folks can’t conceive. but there are plenty of unwanted kids in this country. That is no reason to force a woman to carry to term against her wishes.

      • Daniel P. Durham

        Umm… by “non-viable”, do you mean dead? Because I don’t think anyone disagrees that if the baby has died, we need to get the body out of the womb. But if it hasn’t died yet, let’s at least give it the chance to recover.

        • someone45

          I mean unable to survive without using the woman’s body.

          • Dawn Johnson Pence

            Listen to yourself ” Using the woman’s body.” That’s what a woman was created for – to carry LIFE. It’s not USING it like a parasite. You make it sound like it is such a horrible thing to have a child “use” the mother’s body for it’s natural growth until it is time to be born.

        • Liz

          There are babies who develop without brains. Not figuratively but literally without their brain. They almost always only survive until birth and never very long after.

          • Dawn Johnson Pence

            So? So that makes it okay to murder it?

      • Autist 1

        I live in the NYC area. Here, there was recently a news story about a couple looking to adopt a child. They literally had to put up a billboard to find someone. Your “plenty of unwanted kids in this country” argument doesn’t hold.
        If a woman doesn’t want to have a child, she shouldn’t be getting pregnant in the first place. That’s why there’s masturbation, oral sex, anal sex, the vasectomy, the condom, the ladies’ condom, spermicide, the birth control pill, and Plan B. If she chooses to have unprotected sex without one or more of those options (or in the very least if she doesn’t take Plan B after getting raped), she essentially is choosing to have a child.

        • someone45

          I am unable to take hormonal birth control because of the side effects and anal sex is not enjoyable at all in any way to me. I use condoms every time but they can break. I do not have unprotected sex and I always use protection, so I am not choosing to have a child.

          There are plenty of unwanted kids out there, just because one couple had trouble finding a kid to adopt doesn’t mean there are lots of unwanted kids out there.

          • Dawn Johnson Pence

            So use an IUD, the Sponge, ladies condom, the diaphragm, the implants. There are many other types of birth control out there.

            Do you have any idea how many people have to adopt out of the country in order to get a child? Thousands every year. There aren’t enough babies in this country put up for adoption for people to adopt.

        • Liz

          In the state of New York, more than 5,000 kids enter foster care each year. If you *really* want a child, it shouldn’t matter if they are 2, 5, 10, or disabled. There are plenty of children waiting for someone to love them.

  • justbreathe

    Wow so you can choose if you want to abort your healthy baby, but not a baby with predetermined challenges!?! …Really!

  • Karen

    Hopefully more states will join the bandwagon.

  • Josie08

    What is with this “because there are already kids needing homes, no more babies needing homes because the biological mother feels (and hopefully this is HER decision) she can not provide a good home herself* should be born?” Aren’t these kids just as needy as the others, due to that? Also, you can go onto many Internet sites and find profiles of HUNDREDS of couples and single people who want to adopt.
    Also, when babies infected with HIV began to be born, no one said anything like, “Well, we already have thousands of children who are already sick with other illnesses, so it’s ok to let the AIDS babies just die.” That’s what justifying aborting babies due to anything (especially disability and illness) seems like to me.
    *not that choosing motherhood, at least at first, is a bad thing as long as the woman is a responsible mother.

    • eeeee

      Josie, I think that in most states that is also an abundance of kids that need to be adopted. But they have medical conditions, special needs, they were born with drug addictions, etc. and they linger in the system. Why aren’t these families adopting them? Oh, that’s right, because it takes a very special kind of person to raise a child with special needs.

      • Josie08

        I just don’t think someone should be thought of as a bad person for attempting to adopt an apparently healthy infant, or that abortion should be excused because there are already kids with problems who have been born.

        Kids needing homes all have a reason that they are available for adoption of course, and like I said, a newborn infant’s reason is generally that their biological mother (and hopefully it is HER decision) feels as though she can not be a good mother. IMHO that makes the child just as needy as one who’s already been through a bad situation.
        P.S. Sometimes, as to these these “healthy white*” babies that people can get crap about wanting to adopt, let’s just say special needs can affect any child, at any time. And that’s not something I just heard about or read, that’s something I LIVED.
        *Personally, if I were looking to adopt an infant, race would not matter to me, if I was the one chosen by the biological mother.

    • Liz

      90% of babies with Down Syndrome are aborted. If we’re *already* having a problem getting disabled kids homes, why add more? What’s going to happen to these children? 60% of kids who end up in sex trafficking started in child protective services. Sacramento found that over 1000 foster care homes had registered sex offenders at the same address. These kids will be even less able to speak up for themselves. Abortion might as well be mercy compared to sending this many kids into an already stressed and flawed system.

      • Dawn Johnson Pence

        So it’s better to murder them in their mother’s wombs than “possibly” being sex trafficked or in foster care. Wow, what a sick attitude!

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  • Sue Denim

    I have been unable to conceive and still believe in the woman’s right to choose. If a genetic defect however is severely life limiting,as in length of life, (or having likely no value to life due to a rapid deterioration to virtually catatonic state as some conditions have) should be entitled to termination BUT missing limbs, wonky feet, cleft palate, Down syndrome and disfiguring or chromosome differences should be left alone. If the mother wishes to hand the baby over for someone else to care for that is also up to her x

    • Liz

      Down Syndrome limits life, its puts these people at MUCH higher risk of developing dementia early in their life, it comes with other defects (heart, ect), and also causes a weaker immune system to leave them at risk of developing recurrent infections and cancers. Its NOT “just” disfiguring.

      • Sue Denim

        I wasn’t referring to Down syndrome being disfiguring I was referring to other conditions as I don’t see people with DS as disfigured. I am aware of the associated health problems too thanks for highlighting them for others xx please don’t read just as offensive xx

  • Julie Boline Adams

    Although I am against abortion I am also against taking the right to chose away…If the government constantly takes our rights away where does that leave us? I think this issue is more about the government controlling our rights then actually about abortion. We are all different and we all have different views….no matter what you believe the underlying question should be “Is it ok for the government to take our rights away?” the answer is NO…

    • Marie Noybn

      there is no “right” to kill someone, so they are taking no “right” away. They are RESTORING rights to the unborn.

    • Dawn Johnson Pence

      It’s not the right to choose – the Constitution guarantees the RIGHT to LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That baby has the Constitutional RIGHT to life. Abortion takes away the right of the child to live. That child has just as much right to live, according to the Constitution, as the mother does.

    • thinkitover

      This is the most ridiculous argument I have heard. The government takes away the right to choose to murder a person who is already living, the right to break in to someone’s home and steal their things, I take it you are ok with those this. Not everyone is, you know. There are a good many people whose views include thinking that they have the right to other people’s things or the right to do away with people who stand in their way. We recognize that laws (which at their heart take away one person’s right to choose to do what they please in favor of another person’s right to life and security) are necessary for a civil society. Maybe you would want to live in a society where everyone just did whatever the hell they wanted and there were no laws but I will happily accede some of my right to choose to do whatever I want whenever I want if it means that I am protected from those whose idea of a good time is choosing to assert their right to harm others.

  • Amanda Faglie

    Well I’m glad something is being done because people have become very selfish.

  • Mum of Gorgeous Girl with DS

    We have a daughter who has down syndrome conceived after 10 years of infertility. I have to be honest, if I had known she had the condition before she was born I would have terminated. However that wasn’t meant to be, and we had our child and love and adore her. When we conceived our next child (IVF) – we had all the tests. As much as we love our DS child, we still would have terminated if he had DS. As it turned out, he had a kidney condition discovered in his 18 week scan, which followed by surgeries after his birth. This is such a personal and emotional topic – but my belief is everybody should have the choice, and it breaks my heart that states like Dakota agree with the termination of a perfectly healthy baby but not one with genetic defect.

    • Marie Noybn

      breaks my heart that any abortion is allowed, EVER.

  • Kristine Connors

    that baby is soo beautiful that mom is sick that she wanted to hurt her own baby some people should not be allowed to have kids

  • Bueno01

    abortion is wrong period!.What about the unborn Child? shouldn’t they have a Choice to live??

  • really think about it

    Who takes care of your offspring when you die? Who are you dropping this burden, YES burden on. I’m asking who is managing the finances, healthcare decisions, ‘retirement’ care of this person? Before you champion the rights of a Down’s or any other differently abled “Baby” think of the ENTIRE LIFESPAN of this PERSON not just the adorable infant. It’s a tough question. One I had to face. It’s not a knee-jerk choice. It is a life-long responsibility. We talk about the collapse of Social Security as a problem for irresponsible Gen-Xers who sang all summer but do you realize, This Is part of what will pay for them too? What happens when there is nothing left to pay for a 50 year old person with Down’s when their parents have died and Social Services have nothing for them? These are the questions I asked myself. We kept the baby figuring we were doomed to a life of doing nothing but saving money for a trust to support this child that would never support herself. She was okay. But it was a tough 17 weeks wondering as we didn’t want to endanger her with amnio. Say what you will but this is in no way a black and white issue if you have come face to face with it.

    • Marie Noybn

      so you are ok with the fact that you almost killed your perfectly healthy child because they MIGHT be sick… Im glad you made the right choice but it shouldnt be a choice at all. You could be in a car accident tomorrow and face life needing care, should we be allowed to shoot you because disability may not be there when you need it? absurd.

    • Dawn Johnson Pence

      It’s called FAMILY.

      • Tevis T

        What if there is no family willing to take on the responsibility in 40 years?

  • politicaljules

    The link does not take you to the ABC story. Is there another link?

  • Nadia Rabaioli

    Hi, I have a little boy with Ds, lively, sweet and joyful and I would like to tell other parents that they do not know what they loose refusing these children. This is the point, these children are special, in the human point of view, they walk after the others, but this is not so important, this is my opinion, so I am happy about this step..do know people with ds and then you will understand..ciao,and sorry for my English…

  • laralouise

    i am against abortion but I would never force my opinion on anyone its every womans choice if they want to keep a baby or not. all the people saying give it up for adoption who do you think is going to adopt these babies nobody it will be left to state to care for these children as a parent if I had to choose a healthy baby or a baby with downs I would go for a healthy baby you don’t want to sit and watch you baby be ill in and out of hospital. nobody has the right to tell anyone what to do and the baby cant last outside a mother until after 24 weeks so they need the mother to carry them and want them. all this will do is lead to unsafe abortion clinics with people not properly trained with desperate woman going there because they are forced to. its every womans choice to have a baby and get pregnant. I wouldn’t have an abortion just because of this but that’s me and its not for me or anyone else to say what other woman should choose to do its upto them and if they wont cope then don’t force them to have children they don’t want. whats next you will be forcing rape victims to keep there babies as well I see a higher rise in suicides from woman, woman ending up dead from back street abortion clinics or people trying to kill them there selves. government need to stop interfering in things that don’t effect them how does it effect them if woman get abortions it don’t get woman paying for abortions stop funding it then stop trying to control woman.

  • guest

    God should not be a basis for law. Church and state are separate. Asking someone to remain a virgin forever because they do not want children or unable to carry them is ridiculous. .

    • guest

      people will just find alternative ways to abort. or leave their unwanted children in trash cans,

    • Marie Noybn

      God is the basis of most laws, get used to it.

  • Sadden

    Now the sad part is these will be abandoned children.

    • Marie Noybn

      i doubt it, considering there are literally waiting lists worth of people begging to adopt special needs children.

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  • youareidiots

    Don’t get pregnant if you don’t want a child, as simple as that.

    • guest

      because no one has sex that doesnt want a child…idiot

    • guest

      what if that ds child grows up and gets pregnant with a ds child…who is paying to raise all these children???

  • theferren

    Puff the magic dragon lives by the sea

  • Lynn

    Super simple. Women can have some morals and stop sleeping around and getting pregnant. If you don’t want a baby, don’t have sex. Grow up and take responsibility for your actions and choices and stop being so very, very selfish. We are society of selfish, careless, irresponsible people. If you create a baby, have the courage to take responsibility for your actions.

    • guest

      what about the men,

      • Dawn Johnson Pence

        Men, too

  • candytree

    i am pro life, but i am also the mom of a severely disabled child and i have to say that honestly, i dont think its fair to force the mom to have the baby..disabled children arent some inspiration, sent from heaven to teach us things, its a lot of work, a lot of tears, and you never stop grieving for that child, and on top of the endless amount of work, you fear for that child, because you know someday you will be GONE and that innocent person who is now a disabled adult, will be left to fend for themselves, at the mercy of lazy/abusive nursing home staff or god knows what. i hate to say it but i cant criticize anyone in that position. im so glad i have my sweet boy, but i will say that is HAS caused a lot of strife in my marriage, my health isnt as good as it was from lack of sleep and just sheer exhaustion. i personally wouldnt change a thing, but i still wont judge others for making that choice.

    • JD

      Thank you for sharing your story. That was very brave.

      • candytree

        its just honest…seriously, a child with downs syndrome wont necessarily be the cute poster child that you see on the happy feel good facebook pages either. my half sister has a child with it and her poor kid cant eat, talk, hes very violent..people need to realize that not everyone can do this. hell, i barely can. im so worn down, i can hardly function some days. and yeah, adoption. great! but your child will eventually be left to fend for itself and even in the nicest places, abuse still occurs.

  • Unknown

    This should all be discussion about the topic at hand. Down Syndrome.

    If you’re so caught up in your independent thriving life use protection or don’t have sex. Dot take a risk of getting pregnant if you’re going to take an innocent life- especially a life that has special needs. I am proud to say I have my pre natal diagnosis and my son is the best thing that ever happened to my fine and I. Anyone who comes across our sweet child falls in love with his smile. It is wrong to abort, it is especially wrong and I humane to take a life of a child who has special needs.

    Grow up people. Take charge in your actions and deal with the cards that have been dealt to you- because I promise if you choose the “easy and horrid” way out, karma will bite you VERY hard in the ass.

  • Unknown

    You literally all disgust me who feel it is “ok” to abort any child. Shame on you. Close your freaking legs.

  • Jenna Lovey

    Ppl talk about a womens right to abort. But a child doesn’t have a right? I find it very disturbing that individuals who support pro abortion think it’s ok. A woman also has the right to use birth control or better yet keep her LEGS CLOSED. Ive known one to many ppl who have used abortion as if it was some type of birth control. I’m not passing judgement, but I think ladies need to make better decisions for themselves.

  • Jenna Lovey

    Ppl talk about a womens right to abort. But a child doesn’t have a right? I find it very disturbing that individuals who support pro abortion think it’s ok. A woman also has the right to use birth control or better yet keep her LEGS CLOSED. Ive known one to many ppl who have used abortion as if it was some type of birth control. I’m not passing judgement, but I think ladies need to make better decisions for themselves.

  • J Jennifer Willey

    Every child deserves the chance to live. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fwpPWYUMhM

  • J Jennifer Willey

    EVERY CHILD deserves the chance to LIVE!!! Here is a video that explains it perfectly…http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fwpPWYUMhM

  • Elizabeth

    This small act gives me hope in humanity.

  • Jess

    I am a proud parent of a 4 year old little girl who has down syndrome. If I chose to abort my pregnancy or chose to give her up at birth, I would have never came to love this amazing, beautiful, most loving and caring little girl of mine. I am so happy they banned abortion. Thank you God! I hope the rest of the U.S. will follow through with this also.

  • mom of 4

    If you get an abortion I believe yOu should have to get sterilized

  • Heather

    I’m glad I don’t live in North Dakota ..

  • joshuatree

    The pro death movement is sad. The choice is sex. Speed get a ticket. Touch fire you get burned. Jump off a cliff, you will die. Women can’t abort the ticket, nor the burning, and the death from the jump. You can come up with a million choices that all have consequences that you can’t abort. What I think is interesting about the argument is if the women chooses to keep the baby, the man is forced to pay child support. Why does the women get the choice but the man does not. The sad part is there is a baby that is pure and innocent, torn apart alive in the whom of his or her mother by a vacuum, or its spinal column cut, or stuck in a closet down the hallway until it can no long breath on its own and dies all because the mother and the father chose to have sex and could not handle the consequences. Sometimes I think if the mommy does not want the baby, let her choke it to death with the cord. It her choice right. There is not any sense spending tax dollars to pay for them to abort their consequence. She wants it dead let her do it when it is out of the whom. That’s Pro Death I am sorry, Pro Choice for you, let the mother kill the baby herself. She wants it dead choke it to death right there in the hospital with its own cord.

  • joshuatree

    As I wrote that comment I was looking and thinking about my 8 day old baby laying on the couch. She will make my life tough for 18 years. I will constantly be giving up things I want to o for her. The joy and happiness I feel when I hold her makes it worth it. Abortion is selfish. Having sex and not being prepared for the consequences is selfish. Don’t put yourself in a position where you are given a choice between pro death and pro life. For the men, keep the tool in the tool box, marry the girl first before you sleep with her. Be a man, sex can wait.

  • open your mind

    I see that this is a very divided issue and that many people on both sides will have trouble with being open minded because the stakes are high on both sides of the issue. On the one hand if you consider a fetus or even embryo to be a human being then aborting it would be murder. However it is important to consider that this fetus biologically speaking is not a ‘human being’ yet because it is not viable outside the womb – making it only a potential for life (as in if it stayed in a healthy womb for the full 9 months it would become a baby after birth). It is a touchy subject and I don’t feel good about the idea of ending a potential human life because life is such an amazing thing and we are all lucky to be experiencing it, however it is very important to value the mother’s privacy both her personal privacy and medical privacy and in this sense I think it is very important to not let the government overstep its bounds and regulate women’s bodies in such an intrusive way. Yes the fetus is a potential for life, but it is still inside another being. In my opinion the rights of the mother should trump the rights of the potential life. Of course the court and law should step in in cases of child neglect and abuse after a child is brought into this world but be cannot make decisions about a woman’s body for her. Think about cases in which mothers drink alcohol or do drugs while pregnant. Drinking alcohol is strongly discouraged for pregnancy because it has many harmful effects on the fetus and lasting medical problems for the child, however this is not illegal because it is the mother’s own body and she has the right to do with it what she wants regardless of the fetus growing inside her, and although that may be reckless and negligent, it is completely legal and it’s important for such liberties to not be over regulated.
    In regards to modern day abortions in America. In the first trimester, the most common form is called vacuum aspiration in which the doctor uses a tube to in a sense ‘vacuum’ out the underdeveloped fetus (which at this time is no larger than a raspberry and is the consistency of hard jello which out any receptors for pain). Although the idea of an abortion is uncomfortable to think about on many levels, it is a safe procedure and should be up to the woman to decide what to do with her body.
    In regards to all the arguments about sex and abstinence, I will make the same point, a woman and any person for that matter has the right to do what they want with their own body. So if they want to have sex, that is completely normal. Yes it is a very valid point to make that if someone is not wanting to become pregnant they should do what they can to ensure this does not happen, whether that be abstinence or birth control, but we have the right to have sex if we please and accidents do happen even if one is being careful. It is completely fine for many of you to hold your beliefs about waiting to have sex until marriage but that is not a belief that needs to be pushed onto other people. We all have the right to choose our own way in life and for many people having sex before marriage works into their lifestyle and makes them happy. If a pregnancy does happen the woman should be able to maintain the rights to her body and makes the best decision for herself. Yes that is a ‘selfish’ approach but I think it is important to be able to make decisions about our OWN body that we feel are in our own best interest.
    I think abortions are a sad option but one thing to consider is if these women had not been having sex like you suggest that child they are now wanting to abort wouldn’t exist at all, so by having the abortion that same child again will not exist. It’s the same end result. Every egg and sperm is the potential for life but not all reach life that’s just the way biology works and we do not feel sorry for all that genetic material that has the potential for life, so why put so much importance on a fertilized egg that itself is only a potential for life and not viable life itself?
    All of you people out there that believe abortion is such a horrible response to unwanted pregnancy, it’s valid because abortion is a sad thing but I think we are approaching the issue from the wrong side. You need to realize there would be no abortions if there were no unwanted pregnancies. You do offer the option of abstinence but you have to open your mind and realize that people, especially young people are going to continue to have sex no matter how much you preach about abstinence. If we have more education about birth control and preventing unwanted pregnancy then those people who choose not to abstain can still prevent an unwanted pregnancy and won’t have to face the decision of an abortion.

    • Marie Noybn

      you should read a biology and embryology book instead of listening to planned parenthood for your information. Any science text book will tell you that being a human being and being alive are not magic tricks that happen at full term, a baby is a living human being from the moment of conception, not a potential anything.. a potential someting also has the potential to be something else… an unborn child of any age as only two choices, to continue to be a living human being, or to become a dead human being.

    • Dawn Johnson Pence

      NOT a human being yet? It has totally separate DNA from the mother and is 100% a human being as soon as the first cells divide. Viability does not determine whether it is a human being or not. What do you think it is inside the mother, a puppy? It’s a BABY, a small human.

      Again, it’s not regulate women’s bodies – it isn’t the women who are being murdered (except at abortion clinics sometimes) – it’s the baby’s life.

    • JD

      I agree with you.

      If a mother has a young baby with cancer and the only way to save the baby’s life is a bone marrow transplant and the mother is the only match in the world, is she legally obligated to go through with the life saving surgery? No.

      The same thing is happening with the fetus. It can not survive without the support of another human’s body. That is what makes viability such an important concept. A parent is legally obligated to give a lot of things to their children, but they are not required to give of their own body, though most would. Why would that change pre-birth? The answer is it doesn’t. The technology to give her a safe choice just didn’t exist before. Now it does.

    • thinkitover

      What about premature babies? They aren’t “viable” without support, sure glad you don’t make policy at our local children’s hospital. And hey an infant is incapable of life without another person so why should we intervene if a mother “chooses” to kill it or allow it to die? After all just because she gave birth to this thing that can’t function on it’s own is no reason for her to have to “ruin her life.” Unprotected sex is not a right, not by religious or state standards. The only thing I agree with is the need to be educated about birth control.

  • Kristy Fees-Holt

    If you don’t want kids then keep your legs together. If you are gonna play then you are gonna pay. You do not have to kill the baby, have it and give it up for adoption. There are plenty of familys who would love to be that childs parents even if it has a disability. You should be ashamed of yourself for killing an innocent child. They are Gods children. He lends them to use to raise, not destroy. God will judge you one day & you will not like his punishment.

  • Ryan

    All of the discussions regarding ‘value’ bother me. Whether it is a discussion of the value of a fetus/baby or value of the mother. Monetary terms are inappropriate in discussing human life. The word you are all missing is ‘sacred’. Life is sacred and should not be trampled on lightly or ended because it interferes with something as trivial as ‘happiness’. The thought that killing something sacred within a woman’s body allows her to get over a depression and get back to her normal life is pure madness.

    • thinkitover

      Thank you! you are absolutely right. Assigning value to life based on our own arbitrary judgments is a loser of a proposition. The commoditization of life is just wrong.

  • Debbie Bunn Cadwalader

    I will take one of the babies with down syndrome if anyone out there is pregnant in North Dakota….would prefer a girl.

  • Lindsay Stoesz

    Every woman SHOULD know that when they get pregnant, there is a chance of having a baby with Down Syndrome, Cleft Pallet, Club Foot, etc. If they don’t want a child with that, don’t get pregnant! That child deserves as much love as the next child. There is a reason for adoption. It breaks my heart knowing someone would abort a child just because he or she has an extra chromosome, ESPECIALLY being 25 weeks pregnant. Did I get the blood work done to find out if my little girl has any sort of birth defects? Absolutely. But only to prepare myself mentally. My daughter deserves love weather she is “normal” or if she has a birth defect. Life isn’t fair for anyone. But I’m glad that ND is taking a step in the RIGHT direction.

  • Will Mickelson

    • Will Mickelson

      This pill makes it so you don’t get prego, and you take it after a rape, or sex.

      • Will Mickelson

        But lets just stick with abortion, because it is fun

  • Shawn Atchison

    Doctors and women that offer/receive abortions are murderers. Plain and simple, black and white…there should be a stigma attached to women who have had abortions.

  • ND-Tea Party

    Well I for one am proud of my state. We only have that one stupid death clinic in Fargo and public opinion is MAJORLY against them. There are billboards all over the place up here that say, “Pray to end ALL abortion in North Dakota”. People have signs in their yards like political signs that say the same thing. I have seen a LOT of protests in Fargo protesting that clinic with huge signs showing the abortion procedure. They aint pretty, but they get the message across.

    Life is respected and valued up here in the frozen north. We dont like baby killers here. You wanna kill babies? Do it elsewhere. Up here, babies are protected and valued and you watch………..that last murder clinic is on it’s way out of here and when it leaves it will have a nice big, North Dakota boot print on it’s rear end.

    • Nancy Neira

      Every state needs to follow ND. I am against abortions 100% and I always have been and always will be.

  • unknown

    States that outlaw abortion have the highest rate of infant murder, trash can babies, babies flushed down toilets, and death due to self abortions. I believe that all life is important but laws will not change what others believe. If a women wants to kill her baby she will find a way no matter what a judge says.

  • Rebekah Smith

    1. Does anyone have a link to the actual article? The link provided goes to the ABC home page and a search of “North Dakota abortion Down Syndrome” didn’t give me any news resluts.
    2. Did this law include increased funding and support to care for the expected increase in mentally and physically handicapped people?
    For good or bad, this law will result in an increase of mentally and physically handicaped births. Since that is an obvious result, I seriously hope that steps have been taken to ensure that these kids won’t be put in a situation where they will be neglected, abandoned, or abused becuase their parent’s are unable or unwilling to care for them. I hope that ND has also increased funding to group homes, so that handicapped kids who do receive proper care and happen to out live their parents can have a place to be safe.

  • Rebekah Smith

    1. Does anyone have a link to the actual article? The link provided goes to the ABC home page and a search of “North Dakota abortion Down Syndrome” didn’t give me any news resluts.

    2. Did this law include increased funding and support to care for the expected increase in mentally and physically handicapped people?

    For good or bad, this law will result in an increase of mentally and physically handicaped births. Since that is an obvious result, I seriously hope that steps have been taken to ensure that these kids won’t be put in a situation where they will be neglected, abandoned, or abused becuase their parent’s are unable or unwilling to care for them. I hope that ND has also increased funding to group homes, so that handicapped kids who do receive proper care and happen to out live their parents can have a place to be safe.

  • CK

    Great News!!! And of course the state will also assume the health care, special education and loss of income costs … right???

  • anon

    Don’t want a child keep your pants up/skirt down!

  • CK

    Does no one see the irony in the fact that the writer of the article has a husband who is in the military? So EVERY life has the same value? Must be fought for? Even the unborn? Unless.. you happen to live somewhere sandy, be a different color, and pray to a different god.. In which case.. Bombs away??? Solid point. Got it.

  • poptart

    Why not have the child and give it up for adoption??? Give some one else the choice to LOVE and CARE for the child…What if your parents decided to OFF YOU???

  • Dennis Bullard

    Maybe that judge should be put in charge of a Downs Child and see how difficult it is for the parents and the child as it grows older. Thern when the parents die it is institutionalized. No life for any child. So I support Termination in situations like this.

  • Dennis Bullard

    There are many unions that fail as a result of a child being born defective. There is always the blame game in these separations too. I think termination in these circumstances is warranted to keep the family unit together.

  • Let’s get real

    Is North Dekota going to pay for all services a family has to pay during a child’s life having a child with Down syndrome?… Is North Dekota going to force Catholic Churches to have full inclusion in the Catholic schools? catholic parishes in North Dekota abort individuals with Down syndrome from there schools and exclude them from receiving their sacraments with children their age on a daily basis…. People abort their children with Down Syndrome because how the Catholic Church is allowed to discriminate against families with children with Down syndrome. This wil be overturned

    • thinkitover

      You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. The church does not refuse the sacraments to people with down syndrome or any other challenge.

  • Trump

    ppl who say ‘don’t have sex’ don’t know how good it is #YOLO #SWAG

  • theprof46

    I’m going to ignore the debate over a woman’s rights to her own body (and until a fetus can survive outside the woman, it is not a viable life) and focus instead on what will likely happen to these children after they’re born. If the parents really don’t want to deal with the burden (and yes, there are very real burdens involved) of a Down Syndrome child, they will give it up. Do you know what the odds are of that child being adopted? Do you have any idea what kind of life that child will have growing up in the system, shunted from foster home to foster home, never receiving the level of care needed to thrive, given their disability? Why would you wish that on a child? Why do you automatically think life is the better option? The real world is not a Hallmark TV movie, and the odds are not in that child’s favor. For all of you who are parents to a DS child, I say blessings on you, but you are foolish to think that all parents will think or act just like you. I think this law will see a return to an ugly past of institutionalization for these kids, which should not be wished on anyone.

  • Liz Espinoza

    Ugh tried to share instead it posted like. I do not like this. I do not support this judge. Every woman should have the right to decide what is right for her. This makes me mad.

  • Alovingmotherof3

    Interesting comments. Have you ever watched a child in the NICU go through procedures? Heel pricks, scalp IVs? Pik lines? Trachs? Surgeries for digestive systems that don’t work? I’m guessing you think those procedures are extremely painful? Educate yourselves before you judge a mother for deciding to not put her child through years of excruciating surgery and pain both physical and psychological. Unless you have endured such procedures yourself you have no right to judge.

  • Guest

    I am a mother of 3 beautiful babies. They range in age from 4 to 16. ALL of them had tests run because I do not believe in bringing a damaged baby into this world I think you are to cowardly and selfish if you knowingly do. Having a child with a defect like that is knowingly subjecting that child to a life of hardship and ridicule. PS I do not regret the child with Down syndrome that I aborted. I have friends with special needs kids the normal kids get shafted and everyone is expected to cater to that kid. Somehow it is ok for the kid with Down syndrome in my kids class to keep hitting and biting her. Well they don’t know better. Well his mom did. I see it all the time the normal kid has to go without for the special needs kid. I know allot of people will say I am cold but it is the truth. Also I am not a incubator.

    • Tevis T

      You’re brave. I respect you sharing this.,

    • thinkitover

      Wow, never before heard loving a down syndrome child or any other child with a challenge selfish and cowardly. Here’s a question, say I have a “normal” child who is injured in an accident and now no longer has good mental function, should I kill my child so that you and your children aren’t inconvenienced by having to see or deal with my now “abnormal” child? You’re right, you are cold.

  • Adnarim

    9 out of 10 is not an accurate statistic. Not arguing for one side or the other but this article is not correct.

  • Tevis T

    I’m a pro-life conservative who had to put some thought into this one before making a judgement. If I were an appellate judge, I would overturn this decision and I believe that’s exactly what’s going to happen. Here is why I would do so: if a legislature can decide stipulations for when a woman cannot get a legal procedure (whether or not we like the fact it’s legal), essentially all abortions could be outlawed by the the same legislature coming up with more “special cases” (no pun intended) for an outright ban on abortions for that particular reason. What’s to keep another legislature from doing this with gun control? We as conservatives don’t like it when the Colorado or New York legislature bans “assault weapons” (without even knowing what that is), magazines of a certain size (and erroneously calling them clips), etc. This entire business of overturning court decisions piecemeal by coming up with categories of cases to skirt the law is not a good practice. If abortion is wrong, then it needs to be banned outright. This decision is even worse because a perfectly healthy baby who can contribute to society and not be a burden on anyone can still be aborted, but a child, as harsh as this might sound, who is going to require a lifetime of care and resources is allowed to be born. I’m sorry if the truth hurts, but it is what it is.

    • Tevis T

      Note, that part of the case was dismissed without prejudice.

  • Kat

    Seriously people? Its 2014. There are SO many ways to not get pregnant and still have sex if you really want to. I mean birth control, condoms, etc. If you don’t want to get pregnant then use your brain and use a type of contraceptive or DONT HAVE SEX. And if you still get pregnant, then its your fault. Its a risk you were willing to take. Own up to it. Instead of saying “Oh my life is ruined. I can never achieve my goals.” Try thinking of things to look forward too. Feeling your child kick for the first time, seeing a baby hand go across your belly, seeing your child for the first time.
    Some women have this idea that they can just go have an abortion, and until they have it, they don’t realize what they have done. And worst, some women are convinced that an abortion is their only option. That’s NEVER true. Adoption is always a wonderful option for someone who felt that they could not be a mother at the point they got pregnant. Think about the thousands of couples who try and try but they cant have children. Think about those women who are mothers at heart but cannot have any children. They deserve a child. And yet women are having abortions.
    And yes I do believe that it is a woman’s choice as to what she decides. BUT many woman have no idea what different options they have (like many young adults and teens). And they also have no idea of the emotional stress that is followed by an abortion.
    I do believe that in cases of rape, a woman should DEFINITELY have a choice of keeping the child, giving it up for adoption or an abortion.

  • Renae

    What I hear is “it’s all about the woman”. It isn’t all about the woman. When you decide to have sex and end up pregnant; which is a consequence to your behavior you then decide that you will just kill the life inside of you because it inconveniences you. And what about the man’s rights? No one has mentioned that. Does he get a say in it? It is his child as well. It is no one’s right to play God and decide who lives or who dies. We fighter harder to protect helpless animals from abuse,neglect,etc but a human life is okay to murder? That is just wrong. Why should we be more concerned over an animal then a human? We can not put a price on a human life. They are a blessing from God.

  • Madeline Primrose

    How many adults that have low IQ or minds of children have been treated real badly by other adults? How many child minded adults have been badly treated even actual children? I’m sure that that some children & adults that have low mental IQ like those with Down’s syndrome are treated by others like they stink in the face in a humiliating way. When we as the well able bodied & able minded society do every thing to respect the the disabled people the way we would like to be respected & treated then maybe we could have a right to say & to pass laws like in North Dakota that aborting those with these defects are wrong!

  • Madeline Primrose

    How many adults that have low IQ or minds of children have been treated real badly by other adults? How many child minded adults have been badly treated even actual children? I’m sure that that some children & adults that have low mental IQ like those with Down’s syndrome are treated by others like they stink in the face in a humiliating way. When we as the well able bodied & able minded society do every thing to respect the the disabled people the way we would like to be respected & treated then maybe we could have a right to say & to pass laws like in North Dakota that aborting those with these defects are wrong!

  • gala

    I don’t understand that claim a woman has the right to do what she wants with her body, its not her body that gets killed, it is a defenceless baby’s body.

  • Didi

    I proppse those who are in favor “pro-lifers” – to put their mouth where their money is. Get in line and start adopting all the Down syndrome children. You can have them all. Rause them without food stamps or any other government help. Pay the doctor bills out of your pocket and request no SSDI for them. Dedicate your life to raising retards and then see how fast you will change your mind about forcing a woman to keep a retard child who will never become a productive member of the society only one who will keep sucking resources.

  • Steven Kunkel

    My question is would you want to be brought into this world with Down syndrome ?

  • Steven Kunkel

    Secondly another point I want to make here is birth control : birth control is the responsibility of the parties involved… It is allowing unaccountability to flourish if the responsible parties are under the guise of political beurucratic protection …we are allowing this socialistic nonsense to violate our rights! We are not responsible for people who have failed miserably to learn responsibility for their actions… It seems like schools , teachers and parents are failing their supposed concerted effort to do their jobs! To an extent abortion is the culmination and byproducts of the failed process of learning accountability…

  • Guest

    This is so wrong. why does a judge get to decide this? It is a woman’s right to have an abortion, whether you like it or not. It’s very time consuming & expensive to have a baby with these kind of problems. MY BODY, MY RIGHT. I’m sure this was a male judge. Honestly, many people don’t agree with abortions, all this is, is a step towards making abortions illegal. Anybody who agrees with this, just wait, many more rights will be taken away.

  • A. McKinnon

    I’m sooo glad my mother made the choice to have me. She was in a horrible place in her life. I know that she could have aborted me, but I’m so glad she didn’t. There have been lots of “famous” people who were adopted. But, personally speaking I’m just glad that I’m alive. I think that any other child would have the same thankful heart I do. GOD will judge those who chose death instead of life. Death is easier, and the choice of life harder, however, the rewards of living with a clean conscience and having given life a chance is worth it all.

  • LeticiaVelasquez
  • Guest

    Just because you dont want your child, does not mean that that child is unloved or unwanted. It is a selfish decision to abort a child because YOU dont want it, or it is an inconvenience to YOU. 9 months of your life is more important that the entire life and possibilities of the child? How is that fair. You have already experienced many of the wonderful things this world has to offer. You have had the opportunity to ride a bike, swim, hike, make friends. Your child has not. Destroying that life does not mean that it was unwanted or unloved. There is someone out there ready and waiting to love that child whom you have deemed unworthy for this life. If you dont think you can handle a baby, thats fine. That doesnt give you the right to get rid of that life. Adoption is always an option. It seems like people forget that.

  • givemeachoice

    Fuck this! My husband and I made the hardest decision ever to terminate a pregnancy for down syndrome. There’s no way to know the level of severity that comes with down syndrome and the potential life and medical cost/intervention needed! We have a 3 yr old daughter who does not have down syndrome. Wait til Drs start helping their patients go out of state for this to happen. Such bull shit!

  • tasha

    If you are big enough to spread your God damn legs you had better be willing to take the responsibility that comes with it. I could understand if like you were raped or something and wound up pregnant but to kill a living being just because it has a birth defect is just selfish and should count as murder. This is my opinion and if you don’t like it then don’t read it. If the truth hurts so be it

  • robert

    All abortions should be performed by c section and the mother should have to hold her crying fetus until it takes its last breath. It’s your choice take full ownership of it. And by the way Hitler gave his soldiers the right to kill the innocent but only the sickest of us would say it was right for his soldiers to do this.

  • Cierra Ryan

    I don’t fucking want a downs baby, I will be fighting this new piece of shitty legislation and if it doesn’t change, and I am pregnant with an unwanted downs fetus I will go to another state to terminate it.

  • Fowly

    The only way abortion should be legal is if the mother is in danger of dying in childbirth. Any other way you are murdering without just cause. Even those unborn babies have spirits you know. The purest form.

  • Ineedacoffee

    So what will happen to all the unwanted and abused babies now because their mother was forced to have them. Adoption rates are abysmal as it is, for a disabled child? well
    I openly say I would abort for disability as I dont have the strength or facilities to care for special needs
    That is my right, to take that right away from any woman is in humane
    Why do a bunch of cells have more rights than a living breathing person who will have to deal with the financial and emotional stress of raising a child with special needs – same also applies to abortion in general

    Abortion is a womans right, she has EVERY right to decide what happens to her own body

    • Rebekah

      That bunch of cells is a human being. Why does one human being get the right to kill another just because they don’t want to experience stress? In abortion, it’s not the woman’s body that gets ripped limb from limb, poisoned, or suctioned into bits, it’s her child’s. Sounds like a case of “if it’s not your body, it’s not your decision.”

      • Ineedacoffee

        Thank your lucky stars that you’ve never experienced stress. To the point of wanting to die then. Why should my living child be left motherless and default carer for the an child. My family is non existent, money is slim
        My body is viable, I don’t feed of another person to live therefore my life is worth more
        Without abortion it’s the woman who can suffer in many many ways but you see that as ok right as long as a baby is born, don’t matter what into

        • Rebekah

          So death is better than being born into a challenging environment?

          • Ineedacoffee

            SO my death is better, leaving my living daughter motherless? Typical, only care about a baby being born, not how its cared for or existing children
            No matter what who is here in the NOW has more rights to me than a fetus ever will

          • Calvin Freiburger

            I’m not expecting much considering you’re pretty much just reciting thoughtless slogans, but could you give an example of a pro-lifer who’s ever actually SAID your death would be better?

          • Rebekah

            Last time I checked, most anti-abortion laws include a clause allowing for abortion if the mother’s life is in serious danger, so that’s a moot point. Besides, you’re talking as if a pregnancy guarantees your death. How is that possible if you have a daughter? Also, a fetus is alive in the “NOW” as you put it, so they should have the right to continue the life they already have. Just because they haven’t been born yet does not mean they aren’t alive.

            You’re using faulty logic to say that since I care about the lives of unborn babies, I don’t care about the lives of born babies. How does that follow logically? Have you met me? Have you watched me intently to discover what my views on the worth of children are? Be careful. An internet conversation is a small thing upon which to base an opinion of another person’s character.

          • Ineedacoffee

            Most – on paper. When it comes to mental health its a grey area and seen as bitch should suck it up
            No that fetus isnt in the now as I cant remove it and it survive on its own
            Well considering I dont know how my mental health would hold for another pregnancy, its not a guarantee but a very strong possibility
            I didnt know I was pregnant until 27weeks and went into a freaked out daze until her birth, I remember little of the 13 weeks I was pregnant.

            Well no its not a faulty logic, you against abortion and think a baby should be born regardless.
            To me that says I dont care about anyone else involved as long as baby is born, I dont care if baby cant be cared for.
            Are you putting up you hand to care for the SN babies that will be born from this to people who CANT care for them?

      • Ineedacoffee

        That ‘stress’ as you so flippantly call it could leave other children without a mother when she commits suicide, not everyone has a perfect family, access to support networks and is literally doing it alone
        What happens to the people left behind then?
        Why do you value a mothers life so little? Mental health problems are real

        • Rebekah

          So what stress is worse, having to sacrifice your time and possibly your health for another human being, or being ripped limb from limb by your mother’s wish?

          • Ineedacoffee

            considering a fetus wont feel anything MY stress
            That stress as you so flippantly put it could kill some and leave that persons existing kids motherless, but again you seem fine with that as long as the baby is born

          • Rebekah

            Actually, there is evidence that a fetus does feel pain after about twenty weeks. Want to reconsider your argument? Very, very few pregnancies seriously endanger the life of the mother, and most health issues during pregnancy can be avoided by proper nutrition and exercise. Also, you will find that most pro-lifers include a clause in anti-abortion laws that allows for abortion in the case where a woman will die if she carries her baby to term. So stop using the “women will die if we make abortion illegal,” argument.

    • Jonathan

      That’s a LIE, you fool! When men tell you that it’s a woman’s right, he’s freeing himself out of the situation! You’re paying for his hit-and-run and victimized by his irresponsibility. When it seems like a woman’s decision, it’s usually made upon the father’s “suggestion”, his abandonment, lack of his financial support, her parents’ order or her own ignorance. Even if you’re an atheist who doesn’t believe that every human life is a blessing, you should know that life has already begun when the baby has a heartbeat and other signs of vitality, which is a scientific fact.

      • Ineedacoffee

        Me and my partner had this talk about abortion randomly the other night
        I am the one who would abort, no questions, if or buts, he wouldnt want me too but guess what – my choice
        Not every woman is forced into it, some can see that even with support and money they just dont want to be pregnant, nor feel they can handle a SN child that simple
        I dont celebrate my daughters ‘heartbeat day’ or ‘conception day’ I celebrate her BIRTHday, that tell you where I stand there?

        Every human life is a blessing? There are many people who are no blessing to this world. Pedophiles come instantly to mind

        • Jonathan

          If you had a choice, you would’ve used protection when you were doing it even if he didn’t want to. Abortion is THE last form of birth control, kind of like the last resort when others have failed and there’s no options left. It doesn’t have to end in that way with an innocent life butchered because of his or her parents’ indiscretion. And it’s bad to the mother’s health and her future children’s.

          Intercourse is the very act of making baby. Pregnancy is a natural result. If it’s unplanned to you and your partner, it’s planned by God. And you’ve gotta know that you ain’t no virgin Mary. No woman can have a baby without fertilization which requires a man’s sperm. When she has, the man and the woman are equally accountable for it, so abortion is definitely NOT just a women’s issue.

          Abortion is usually associated with a deadbeat father and a single mother. It happens all too often that a jerk tricks or forces his partner into an abortion, but there’re also some men who do want to keep the child. When the man is vehemently against the woman’s decision of abortion, I think he should have the legal right to veto it. If he refuses to exercise his parental rights with financial, emotional and physical support after the baby’s birth, she could sue him for that.

          • Ineedacoffee

            Indiscretion? What 2 people in a relationship having sex for fun?
            Just because I consent to sex does not mean I consent to pregnancy and if contraception fails abortion is a viable choice
            Look up the possible effects to carrying a pregnancy to term, some life long and debilitating.

            Planned by god? Sorry dont buy into that brainwash. I wont have my life dictated by some male orientated book
            A guy gets to put forward his opinion if the woman wants to abort but he does not and never will get final say

            Abortion is associated with people who have control over their healthcare and can make a decision that best suits them and their life
            No man should have a right to veto abortion, that turns the woman into nothing more than an incubator – that is inhumane.
            And women can sue for dead beat dads, the system needs fixing to make that easier

          • Jonathan

            Inhuman? Seriously? You think witnessing your baby literally being TORN APART by bloody instruments in the hands of an abortionist is more human than letting your partner take care of the situation if he’s a good man who wants to? Do whatever you want as you may, but remember this: When you’re aborting or abandoning your children, you’re aborting and abandoning your future and your country’s. If one day you’ve got breast cancer or mental disorder, deal with it by yourself. Don’t ever complain about it and don’t ever connect it to what you’ve done. Abortion is fun, isn’t? Having sex without a condom is fun, isn’t it? Then go ahead. Nobody’s standing in your way to hell. You’ve already sent your baby there.

          • Ineedacoffee

            Yes it is inhumane to force a woman to use her body for something she does not wish to
            You must be thick to think contraception is 100% effective
            Ive never had an abortion, I just believe every woman deserves the choice and to be able to make that in a safe environment, not go back to dark ages of abortion when it was illegal. Where women used all kinds of concoctions and bits of wire to abort.
            Abortion being illegal does not stop them, it just puts women in a very dangerous position
            Hell is only real to those who believe in his sky fairy friend

          • Jonathan

            Choice, huh? How about closing your legs and saying NO to genital sex when that’s only on his demand and not hers? If you care about women’s health, what I’m suggesting would spare the risk of pregnancy AND all kinds of sexually transmitted infestations. I don’t wanna take away people’s rights of making choices either, but before a choice is made, how about a 24-hour waiting period, a sonogram photo of the baby, a mandatory watch of an abortion procedure video and the legal guardians’ permission in writing manner if the patient is a minor? Just to be clear, I didn’t make these hard limits, our good lawmakers did.

          • Ineedacoffee

            Psst guess what, women DO choose to have sex
            Caring about womens health means giving the choice of a safe, sterile procedure for a condition they dont want
            All the things you listed should be at request only apart from ultrasound as it can tell someone how far along and what type of abortion needed, so that should be done regardless
            “good” lawmakers, you mean the men who will never be pregnant and need an abortion? Yeah wise bunch there, they will never know the mental and physical results of pregnancy, birth and abortion

            And yes you are trying to take a womans choice, you did say a man should have right to veto one and force her to birth for HIS benefit

  • Debbie Peterson

    3,500 Humans will be burned, dismembered, liquified in the name of “Choice”.

  • Matt

    9 times out of 10 seems like a very high of a number in this case. Can anybody supply the results of a legitimate, peer-reviewed study that supports this statistic?

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  • Tiffany Georges

    the way i see it is it’s a money issue too, kids with down syndrome or any other medical issue comes with major medical expenses that some mothers know that they won’t be able to afford. this is just how i see it

  • mboesiger

    Well if the government wants to deny a woman the right to abort a sick foetus that will never get better, then that government should have to at least set up a program where unwanted down syndrome children can be given up to at birth. It is not fair for a woman to be stuck with a mentally retarded child that will grow to adult size but still never be any smarter than a young child for the rest of her life.

    • Leslie Milligan Malsbury

      To say they will not be smarter then a young child is incorrect. There are actors, authors, athletes, reporters, teachers, and more who have this disorder. So what a child has one more chromosome then another. Things happen for a reason and we are given a challenge for a reason. If I had a test done that showed my kids to have dyslexia, ADHD, OCD/ODD, Anxiety, Bipolar and so on I wouldnt change it for the world. These kids have taught me so much. You make it sound like a child with a disorder is an inconvenience to a woman. Its not.

  • Jonathan

    Sarah Palin is my hero. When statistics shows 9 times out of ten, she stood up for the one with her husband’s support.

  • Beth Purvis

    I’m not saying you should abort with that knowledge but… again it’s not up to the government what a woman does with her vag. I mean seriously. Get out! There is no absolute way of knowing the circumstance of a pregnant woman and it is her choice to do what she wants to her body. Abortions are happening. Stop banning them and make them safe so the living person doesn’t die.

  • thinkitover

    If pro-choice had been possible long ago, many of the same people who so strenuously advocate for it might never have lived to do so. Game, set and match.

  • tam2kids

    People who chose to abort because a child has a disability….may go on to have a child or children with disabilities not recognised until they are growing up. What would you do then? Would you kill the child because its not considered “normal” Children bring lots of joy into our lives no matter what is wrong with them. I know people who have had abortions…..and to this day it haunts them. Not to mentions there are a couple people that had abortions and now that they are “ready” for a child, they can’t get pregnant.

  • LarryEWells

    Yes I do and your story still sounds made up bullcrap!!

  • Marjan Winstead

    I think it’s sad and wrong to abort a child because they have Down’s Syndrome, children with Down’s are some of the sweetest most innocent children out there. That being said, if you take away the mother’s right to terminate the pregnancy, you will end up with an unwanted, unloved and very likely abused or neglected child. Yes, there are people who will adopt…throw that argument out there, but there are also thousands upon thousands of unwanted children in our foster care system right now….so are we really willing to force women to carry out an unwanted pregnancy just to add to those numbers in the end? It’s sad, it’s tragic and no one wants to keep abortion legal because they like it…it’s because they’re looking at the whole picture. Start blocking a woman’s right to terminate a pregnancy and we’re potentially looking at some very scary outcomes.

  • whydda

    Rape is never a win win. Abortion is a second trauma, also with potential long term suffering. There is no logic in executing the child for the crime of the father. Yes adoption is in need of improvement and fostering can mean lack of continuity. But these problems are not a reason for depriving someone who is wholly innocent of a chance at life. One man, asked how long he had been pro life said “since conception”. Cierra is primarily and sadly in rebellion against God and the nature she was given. There is plenty of evidence of different kinds for Christ down the ages and none for speculative atheism.

  • Debi

    I could add a brainy quote, but I’ll spare you. There is birth control that is infallible and you can get. I think there is a much more logical choice than abortion. Talk to some one at pro choice. The grief these women suffer is insurmountable and btw we were talking about down syndrome not rape. I am a CNA I work with severely disable children and Down Syndrome does not even come in to the equation. They are delightful and contributing citizens to the community. So drop the ignorance glasses and look at the glass half full.

  • Mary

    Try again Crazyfarmgirl, maybe try another agency. As a single parent I have adopted 8 children, none are were through the same agency.