question choice

Planned Parenthood’s most insane ad campaign yet

The other day, I was in the middle of doing research online when I stumbled across a Planned Parenthood ad. Planned Parenthood, over the years, has run some pretty shocking ad campaigns. Without a doubt, this one is the worst I’ve ever seen:

Planned Parenthood ad, baby

This ad proves that insanity can indeed reach new heights.

Planned Parenthood recently coined its “Care. No matter what.” slogan, around the same time the abortion giant decided that claiming to be “pro-choice” wasn’t the best way to win people to their side. Now, it’s insane to claim to “care” when your work is actually killing. (Insanity is defined as “extreme irrationality.”) But to claim that the ones you kill will “thank you”? I honestly can’t imagine more insane or irrational logic.

It seems as though Planned Parenthood enjoys facing the truth and running in the complete opposite direction, spinning a calculated lie, and claiming all the while that the opposite of the truth is actually true – for the supposed benefit of women everywhere.

The thought process must go something like this:

Truth: Babies suffer during abortions./Babies are ripped apart during abortions./Babies are deprived of life during abortions.

Planned Parenthood: Babies enjoy suffering./Babies enjoy getting ripped apart./Babies enjoy being deprived of life. (Just like we all would, right?!)

Truth: Women want to think their babies are happy and not suffering.

Planned Parenthood: Even though we are in the business of ensuring that thousands of babies are never born, let’s run an ad showing a happy, healthy, smiling baby (something we don’t create, but who cares?!) being held by her mother. And let’s add in the slogan, “Your baby will thank you.” That way, women will think of a happy, smiling baby as they are lying on the table, going through an abortion (and their babies are being sucked apart or torn into pieces), and these women will think about how thankful their baby is.

Honestly, I don’t have a clue what could possibly have been running through the mind of whatever insane person created this ad. But maybe it was something like that.

There should seriously be a prize for anyone who can come up with any sort of legitimate benefit that Planned Parenthood gives babies. How does Planned Parenthood help babies thank their moms? For what?

Planned Parenthood is forever talking about how it provides birth control. Right. A baby who was never born because her mother was on birth control is definitely going to thank Mom for that.

In some insane jump of non-logic, Planned Parenthood is attempting to convince women that their babies will “thank them” for visiting their local clinic. This is no better than Nazis posting signs of happy Jews, thanking the SS officers for the death camps – and the gas chambers in particular.

Let’s hope that our society isn’t as insane as Planned Parenthood must think we are.

  • Hostem Rei Publicae

    Unfortunately, there are plenty of insane people out there. Michael Bloomberg ran almost the same campaign on NYC’s public transportation. Planned Parenthood actually came out against it (God knows why, seemed like free advertising for them). This is extremely disgusting and makes absolutely no sense.

  • http://pinterest.com/j0s1395/ Josephine (D)

    They will do anything to look good, even something as awful as this.

  • Rebecca Downs

    I hope that it is clear I am in no way advocating for this campaign. However, it does not surprise me. And, coming from Planned Parenthood, this kind of makes sense. If we think of their logic, which is completely warped, babies are only something that are worth having when you plan them. I mean, think of their name. Thus, I think their argument is saying that if you have a baby when you’re ready, and only then, your baby will thank you because he or she is magically guaranteed to somehow have a better life. I am not saying I agree with such logic, and especially because it treats sex and babies as consequence free and as commodities, but I do think it is worth trying to understand it from their point, especially if we are to best counteract such ridiculousness and quite frankly, pure evil.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandra-Vargas/617581266 Chandra Vargas

      You are a fucking idiot.

      • Mary Lee

        What a useful, clever, eloquent comment. Let me guess….you were president of your high school debate team!

        Obviously, when one has no legitimate argument, one often resorts to profanity and insults. Go, you! /sarcasm

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandra-Vargas/617581266 Chandra Vargas

          There isn’t space here to list the reasons you are a fucking idiot. The whole premise is based on a lie. We can start with the fact that abortions are only 3% of PP services. They do, in fact, make sure women are healthy when they decide to have children (that’s the key here, women get to decide when/if they have children. Oh, the horror! Women get to control their own lives, what is the world coming to?!? Anyone who doesn’t want to spend 18 years raising a squalling brat should just be celibate their entire life.). The author of this article is spewing hyperbolic lies. “The abortion giant”, give me a fucking break! Comparing PP to Hitler? Please. There is no truth or logic in this article. It’s flaming bullshit, through and through.

          • Mary Lee

            Keep digging, Chandra. You’re almost to China!

          • Mary Lee

            Also, you might want to see a counselor. Or an exorcist.

          • Mary Lee

            “I only drive drunk 3% of the time!”
            “I only kick 3% of the puppies I see!”
            “I only commit arson 3% of the time!”
            “I only shoplift 3% of the time!”

            And…control? Women controlling their own lives? You clearly don’t know me. I’m as feisty as they come. My husband calls me the President of Our Home. I have held high positions at formidable institutions because I can manage things well and get things done. I realize I have only so much control over my life. But “controlling” your life by ripping your child apart and throwing it into an incinerator or a biohazard bag? That’s not control. That’s bullying. That’s SICKNESS. That is “might makes right,” which is really the crux of the pro-abortion argument.

            Oh, and hey, Chandra, I saw a caterpillar today, so I stepped on it. I mean, it was annoying me, and it wasn’t even a butterfly yet, so, no big whoop.*

            *I did not actually do this. This is an illustration. I thought you might need that pointed out to you very clearly.

          • http://www.facebook.com/anna.strakele Anna Strakele

            how does getting your bodily autonomy, liberty, pursuit of happiness, and possibly life wrenched away from you and all attention turned to the insentient glob of parasitic cells that has no concept of existence not amount to losing control over your life?

          • Mary Lee

            Okay, first….No such thing as complete bodily autonomy. It does not exist. Because our rights end where another body begins.

            How is getting pregnant tantamount to having “liberty, pursuit of happiness” and oh “possibly life’ (HA HA HA HA!!!! because that happens ALL THE TIME, right?) “wrenched away from you”? Pregnancy is the natural result of sex. It is the normal, healthy function of a woman’s body. And when a woman is pregnant, she is already a mother. Because her baby has his or her own body. What about his or her bodily autonomy? Our babies are not our property. If we do not want to be viewed as property (as we once were, by the patriarchy), then how can we treat OUR OWN CHILDREN as property? They are human beings. They are not “things.” They are not “invaders.” They are not our enemy.

            Why do you pro-aborts use language like, “parasitic”…what’s that about? Do you know anything about biology? At all? Any of you? A parasite is not the same species as the “host,” for one. For another, a parasitic relationship depletes the “host” of its resources. A pregnancy is NOT a parasitic relationship, it is parental. By your logic, a newborn and even a toddler can be viewed as parasitic.

            I am a rape survivor. I also was pro-choice. I also have been through a crisis pregnancy. Sorry, your melodramatic language shows, once again, that you have no actual valid argument, just self-centeredness and watchwords. Ridiculous. Utterly embarrassing. Please, do us a favor, and take some biology classes. Also, logic and philosophy might do you good. Sheesh.

          • JeNnA

            actually, the person above you is right. pregnancy is a parasitic relationship. a parasitic relationship is not only between two different species. check out the angler fish. the male is a parasite. he latches onto the female and receives her nutrients.

            how does a fetus NOT deplete the woman of her resources? did you know that if a woman gets dehydrated while pregnant, instead of any water she has inside continuing to flow through HER veins, it will flow to the fetus? if a woman starved herself or only ate very very little, she would die before a one inch big fetus would. the first place her nutrients go are to the fetus in her stomach.

            a newborn is not parasitic. it can receive nutrients from a bottle. it does not have to be physically attached to the woman, breathing the oxygen she breathes, receiving the nutrients she takes in, receiving the water she drinks. at the point a fetus could survive outside the womb without needing to be attached to another being, when it can breath and eat and develop without needing to be attached to another person, then it is truly a separate being.

            i have taken three biology classes and two psychology classes, one in developmental psychology. i presented the facts.

            no no no. our bodily autonomy does not end where another’s body begins. that’s where ours continues. your logic is the complete opposite of the point of bodily autonomy. if our autonomy ended where another’s body began, we would have no autonomy.

            i’m sorry you were raped. that’s really awful and sad and should never have happened. but you have to understand that not everyone is as strong as you, and some women could be extremely damaged physically and psychologically if they had to carry a rape pregnancy, and really any pregnancy to term.

            you only know what you are capable of going through. do not try to make that the standard for what other women must do.

          • SturJen

            “Women get to control their own lives” Yeah, let me give you a bit of a hint on that one. You don’t want babies ? DON’T HAVE SEX!! DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.
            ‘Womyn’ who have spent the last 40 years fu*cking everything that moves just because some dude told them to are just effing MORONIC not to figure out there is no such thing as 100% effective birth control.
            Oh and another thing: STOP HAVING SEX WITH MEN WHO DO NOT MAKE GOOD FATHERS!!!!!!!! If you are fluking a man just cuz it feels good and then get mad when you get pregnant? It’s because you are a FLIPPING MORON!!!
            Again, because you seem to be as stupid as a bucket of rocks:
            SEX EQUALS BABIES
            SEX = BABIES
            If you don’t want a baby Don’t have sex!!!
            ~headdesk~

          • Basset_Hound

            Stu…like your profile pic….It looks like Andrew Breitbart.

          • Scott Z

            Thankfully, there are types of sex from which it is impossible to become pregnant. In addition, as Basset Hound mentioned in another thread, surgical sterilization is also an option.

            EDIT: Oops, he or she actually mentioned it in this thread, sorry.

          • http://www.facebook.com/anna.strakele Anna Strakele

            only problem there is that doctors will refuse to give a woman a hysterectomy until she is either 36 and over or has at least one child. most women know by the time they’re in their early 20s whether or not they want children. men at 18 can choose a vasectomy. why can’t women be trusted to know what they want out of life but a man can?

          • Scott Z

            “why can’t women be trusted to know what they want out of life but a man can?”

            I’m not sure I’d trust anyone younger than 25 to know what they want out of life. However, I seriously don’t know why a doctor would do as you described. Maybe a hysterectomy is more likely to have complications than a vasectomy?

          • http://www.facebook.com/anna.strakele Anna Strakele

            the complications part is true. but your lack of trust is seriously unfair.

          • Scott Z

            My hesitation to trust is based on the fact parts of the brain involved in long-term decision-making don’t typically finish developing until around 25. However, I know some people find out a lot earlier, and some a lot later.

            Also, if the complications part is true, they could very well be refusing to perform the surgery out of concern for the woman’s well-being. Or, maybe they just don’t want to risk raising their liability insurance.

          • Basset_Hound

            I thought in my 20s that I never wanted children. I later married a wonderful man and had two. They are my greatest blessings.

          • http://www.facebook.com/anna.strakele Anna Strakele

            how about advocate birth control. 99.999% is close enough to 100% to be trusted. sex is a gift that is not solely for procreation. its an expression of love between two people. babies are not a necessity. do NOT say that a woman is a moron for having sex. the guy has the opportunity to say no too. its as much his fault as hers. slut shamers like you sicken me. try to have some respect.

          • DRENCHED

            It’s sad to think how most of the people on this thread are christians….i understand there is a lot of irresponsibility in people these days, but when a person’s lost the love they are supposed to have for fellow human beings, the it’s a sad thing.

          • yup

            every pro-“life”r has lost the love they are supposed to feel for the women in their life.

          • Giggg

            wow! you’re the exact definition of a misogynist. completely overlooking the fact that a man has equal say in whether or not sexual intercourse occurs, completely overlooking the fact that men on average have more sex partners than women, completely overlooking the fact that sterilization procedures are available and are much more easily and cheaply obtained by MEN….

            i doubt you have a wife. but if you do….boy, do i pity her. she’s obviously just an object to you, someone you TELL to have sex with you, someone i doubt you allow to use birth control…

            honestly, do you think married couples are going to abstain from sex because they don’t want kids? no. sex is supposed to be a part of marriage. kids do not have to be. they shouldn’t have to abstain from a big part of marriage just because they don’t want children. the fact that you would think that is simply ridiculous. do you really want your wife to stop having sex with you when she doesn’t want kids anymore? i bet you’ll go get some on the side them. birth control and sterilization procedures should be extremely cheap or free. but i bet you’re against sterilization too.

            if you do any sort of research, you’ll find that preaching abstinence only doesn’t work.

            i have never read a paragraph more disrespectful and disparaging to women.

          • http://www.facebook.com/TMH1974 Tracy Michelle Hargett

            Have you followed the Gosnell case? AT ALL? Did that woman who died on the table from a drug overdose in his clinic, did SHE have a choice? Yeah she was all big and bad just like you and she DIED. What about adoption? You would not have to spend 18 years raising a “squalling brat” then and to the adoptive parents it is certainly NOT a “squalling brat.” It is their new child and they finally have a chance to be parents. YES – some people actually WANT to be parents, believe it or not.

          • http://www.facebook.com/anna.strakele Anna Strakele

            he was not a certified abortion doctor. he did not sterilize his instruments. he did not perform the procedures in a clean environment. he did not perform them correctly. he did not prescribe the medications correctly. gosnell performed late term abortions and killed already born children. gosnell’s case does not even slightly represent the safe, legal abortion industry. yes, some women have died from that too. but very rarely. some men and women have died from asprin, but that’s not being debated. abortion clinics painlessly abort insentient fetuses. the fetus is not comparable to a grown woman. a grown woman is sentient. a grown woman has fully functioning organs. a grown woman has bodily functions that occur without them needing to be attached to another being. a grown woman has constitutional rights. a fetus does not. protection under the constitution is granted by citizenship. citizenship is granted by birth, not conception. if i was pregnant, my fetus would not be considered an American. it would be considered an American if and only if it was born here in the US. but if I went overseas to France, it would be born a French citizen. it would not get constitutional rights out of the womb. why would it get constitutional rights in it?

            lawyered.

          • Mary Lee

            Wow, this entire post is made of FAIL! Congratulations. I didn’t think it was possible. There is almost no truth at all to any of this post.

          • Mary Lee

            “lawyered”….NOT. EVEN. CLOSE. Oh, I get more and more sad for you the more I read your posts.

            brainsurgeoned

          • Mary Lee

            You know….he was a ….licensed abortion doctor, right? It was suspended several times, but never revoked.

            paralegaled

    • Brooke

      I was thinking the same thing, when I saw the ad. I absolutely do not support this ad, but I do get where their messed up logic comes from

    • Kristiburtonbrown

      I agree with you, Rebecca, that some people are coming from this perspective. I think we know, too, though that Planned Parenthood (and NARAL, etc.) specifically coin slogans and campaigns to pull people in and sound good, despite the lives and complete irrationality involved. I’m sure you’ve read about Bernard Nathanson’s admissions about when the pro-choice industry sat down to make up some of their initial slogans (http://www.pregnantpause.org/abort/remember-naral.htm).

      So yeah, I just think Planned Parenthood needs to be called out on the insanity and irrationality of the slogans they make up to draw people in that are based on deception and/or straight out lies.

      And despite the “planned” babies that some people may think might thank Planned Parenthood, there are countless other babies that were ripped apart or sucked to pieces by Planned Parenthood. This is why it’s insane to claim that babies will thank their moms for choosing Planned Parenthood.

      Also, what baby would thank her mother for killing her older brother but giving her life? That seriously messes up kids, actually, to find out that their parents aborted their older or younger siblings but for some reason, kept them.

      Anyway…I know you know all this, but I thought I’d explain a bit more about the point behind this article =) Thanks for your thoughts!

      • Christina Elaine

        Your comment about children having to deal with the death of an older sibling by abortion reminded me of the story presented in the film “October Baby”. Though it is not exactly the same case, the idea is similar.

      • http://www.facebook.com/anna.strakele Anna Strakele

        thats a huge blanket statement. i actually know a few families who have done that, and the children are not messed up. they understand that it was the best thing for their mom at the time and they are happy the way things are.

    • Lenny

      What do you expect from a baby? We should be thankful for babies. Maybe Doctor Dobson can help parent’s with ungrateful babies. Imagine a little baby on a green couch talking to Freud.

    • guest

      that’s not at all what they mean. they don’t mean that the only valuable pregnancies are the planned pregnancies. they exist to help women make sure they get pregnant when they feel it’s the right time. they exist to help women avoid unwanted pregnancies. they do not push abortion on anyone. if one of their patients says that they’re pregnant, they don’t immediately schedule them for an abortion without asking them if they are happy about it. even if the woman says no, she’s not happy, but still wants to continue the pregnancy, then Planned Parenthood will support her and give her the medical care she needs to healthily carry to term. this myth that Planned Parenthood just wants to abort every pregnancy in the US is getting old. get over yourselves.

    • nancie

      yea, you have to at least believe or think that a wanted child will be more loved by their family, and a planned child will be better provided for, and that the combination of the two will be an infinitely happier child. think about the millions of unwanted kids worldwide. do you really think that they, living on a small bed in an institution full of other unwanted kids with no family, very few belongings, very few options for hobbies, and a future of being kicked out on the street at 18 years of age is happier than someone who has two parents who love each other and and are still together, loving him/her, and providing a nice house in a lovely neighborhood with the pets he/she wanted, going to a nice school, and getting to try and enjoy every interest or sport or hobby he or she has ever wanted to try? my guess is no….

      maybe you don’t think that the possible awful life is any reason to abort, that you should still put the kid up for adoption. and sure. i can understand that. until you look at how few people want to adopt, let alone the number who are trying to adopt, let alone the number eligible to adopt…. you people keep saying, “adoption is an option!”, but then when a pro-choicer says “well look at the hundreds of millions of kids in foster care and on the street? how can anyone say adoption is an option when they aren’t even close to being adopted?”, all the pro-lifers say “well, adoption is much harder than you think. i know someone who has been trying to adopt from multiple adoption centers for years and blah blah blah”, just proving the point that while “putting the kid up for adoption is an option”, adoption itself is not really much of an option after all.

      and sex should be consequence free. its not solely for procreation. i assume you’re a christian, so I’d like to direct you to the song of solomon, which explains that sex is a gift for you to just enjoy closeness with the one you love. God never said that every sexual act had to result in a pregnancy, let alone be open to pregnancy. nowhere is birth control frowned upon. and if you’re a christian, then you must be able to infer that God is pro-choice and that the unborn being born really wasn’t of much concern to Him.

  • Basset_Hound

    Wow. Baby is happy because Mom just became a partner in her law firm. Mom couldn’t have made partner if she hasn’t been able to abort a sibling or two. Oh well, you can’t make an omelette without breaking a few eggs, can you)

    • http://www.facebook.com/beverly.harlton Beverly Harlton

      Or Mom could devote some more time to her child’s education so baby could grow up to pay for her own opera coach like I did in college. Did I mention my younger sister has Down’s? A prime candidate for their butchery. Somehow, without abortion, we made it through life just fine! And I still got to do opera! ;)

      • Basset_Hound

        Good post Beverly. Did I mention I have a son with severe autism. We did not know about it until his first birthday, but according to Peter Singer he’s not a person. He’s the next candidate for the death eaters if we cave on abortion.

      • http://www.facebook.com/anna.strakele Anna Strakele

        hey, could you guys quit acting like everyone is as capable/strong as yall to deal with that crap? not all of us are.

        • Mary Lee

          Wow, that says a lot about you. And the pro-abortion community in general. Also, it’s “y’all.” Also, I doubt you’re living in Savannah in the 1950s.

        • Kristiburtonbrown

          “That crap”? Are you calling people with autism and Down Syndrome “crap” that other people have to “deal with”? Because that’s what it sounds like. And that’s pretty terrible. They are people who deserve to live just like anyone else. If a parent isn’t “strong” enough to raise their own child who is disabled, they should give them up for adoption, not kill them. “Not being strong enough” is not a good reason to kill anyone.

    • Scott Z

      Are you saying everyone who joined Occupy Wall Street is/was a “spoiled little entitlement junkie”? Besides, it’s not like you’re against all entitlements. Do you not think innocent people are entitled to life?

      • Basset_Hound

        The greatest percentage of them were. Your attempt to draw a parallel between other people being entitled to confiscate what someone has earned, and an innocent child’s right not to be killed is flawed logic.

        • Scott Z

          “The greatest percentage of them were.”
          greater than 50% seems like a reasonable position

          My point is both you and they believe people have certain rights and are entitled to certain things.

          • Basset_Hound

            My point is that your comment is ridiculous. I guess I can’t make it any plainer.

          • Scott Z

            Lol! How is my comment ridiculous? Do you not believe innocent people are entitled to the right not to be killed? I thought an entitlement was something everyone should get for merely existing.

            Were you only referring to material things?

    • http://www.facebook.com/anna.strakele Anna Strakele

      “YAY! mom became a partner in her law firm. me and my family will never have to worry about where our next meal will come from. my parents will never have to tell me that i can’t explore one of my interests because it costs money. my parents will never have to send me to a school in a poor town because they couldn’t afford better. my parents will never have to tell me that they can’t pay for me to go to any college i want to go to, or that i have to pay for it myself. my parents will be able to fully support me without ever having to worry about struggling to get the bare necessities. YAY! my parents will have time to spend with me because they can work from home and get paid a huge salary instead of leaving me with a sitter/daycare because she’s working all day and night for minimum wage so she can afford to feed us three times a day and clothe us and give us a place to live. I’m going to grow up to be so appreciative of what I have and will do everything I can to be sure that all women and families have the ability to do the same thing!!!”

      i do not want to pay for families on welfare with children who have children just to get more welfare. i don’t want to pay for kids in foster care. i didn’t want these kids. i didn’t support their births. i think when we vote, we should have to fill in a “pro-choice” or “pro-life” bubble. and those who identify pro life should have increased taxes to replace all the money that the pro-choicers will quit paying to foster and welfare support.

      and also, i think that if churches want to start getting involved, then their tax breaks need to be taken away. there is either a separation of church and state or there is not. if there is, then the church may not make any appearances in government, nor any of our laws be based on the holy books of any religion or their denominations. if there is not, then churches need to start paying taxes just like any other corporation–all of them, regardless of religion and denomination. and all religions must have equal representation in government, including islam and athiest and buddhist and christian and hindu, because the US does not respect an establishment of religion.

      • Mary Lee

        The more you post, the more pro-life I become. That’s probably not what you intended. But you really are good at showing us that you have no argument, no facts, nothing, really, except histrionics and outright lies.

      • Basset_Hound

        I’ve got a PERFECT solution for “children having children”. A girl thinking to herself “I’m 16. My boyfriend and I are probably not going to stay together for the long haul. Therefore, I should put sex aside for a few years and focus on activities that would be more likely to increase my academic standing and land me a scholarship…like sports, marching band or signing up for some AP classes instead of sticking with the “regs” classes. I’ll be so busy I won’t have time to feel sorry for myself or chase after dudes”. But you seem to think that women totally lack the self-discipline and self control to do this.

        • Mary Lee

          Yeah, why don’t people realize that “separation between church and state” only means that there can be no government-sanctioned/national religion. It does NOT mean your views should not inform your politics. Strangely, liberalism IS a religion (abortion is a sacrament to libs), and therefore, our current administration is NOT recognizing separation between church and state.

  • Mary Lee

    “Your baby” they say? What baby? They’re killing them. That’s their business. To kill them and/or preventing their existence altogether. Yuck.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandra-Vargas/617581266 Chandra Vargas

      If you want to be a brood mare, that is your business. Not everyone wants children, which is *their* business, not yours.

      • Kristiburtonbrown

        Would you use that argument to support what women like Susan Smith and Andrea Yates did? What if they were tired of their children and no longer wanted them? So it was okay that they killed them? Mothers should either be allowed to kill their children or they shouldn’t be…and the age or stage of development of a child shouldn’t matter. Getting sterilized is a better choice for those who don’t want children than killing the children they help to create.

        • http://twitter.com/SicBorodin Sic Borodin

          Kristi, you know as well as I do that the foundation of arguments like CV’s is “I want to do what I want and you can’t make me lalalalalalaaaa.” It comes from a mentality marinating in the most profound childish selfishness there is.

      • Mary Lee

        Such respect for the ability to bear children. “Brood mare.” Only pro-aborts, seriously. ….*sigh*

        Hey, if people want to NOT have children, fine, nobody cares. But no woman should ever kill the child she has already brought into existence. That’s all the pro-life message is. The baby is not part of the woman’s body, he or she is distinct. There is no such thing as the right to kill our children, no matter where they live.

        • Aruana Zeelie

          Jumping in here: I don’t want to go through the pregnancy. Bottom line. Getting pregnant was a mistake and that’s it. I do not want to go through actually pushing that child out. And I don’t want a child of mine out there in the world. I don’t want to get attached to that child. Selfish, yes. I am just being honest. I want the choice of abortion. I am not hyper religious, so that doesn’t bother me. It’s between me and God. The condom could have broken, I could have skipped a pill, the pill isn’t working, whatever. I don’t see why I have to live with my mistake. And yes, I see it as a fetus. And no, I wouldn’t consider myself to be a murderer.

          • Calvin Freiburger

            Lots of us “don’t want to go through” all sorts of things, but we understand there are basic lines of decency and humanity we can’t cross to avoid them. Murder is the most obvious one.

            And yes, it IS murder, regardless of what you want to “consider” it. Do you know what the term “fetus” does and doesn’t mean? Do you know the first thing about the relevant biology?

          • Aruana Zeelie

            I don’t really care to tell you the truth. I do not see it as a human being and again, I do not want to carry something for 9 months and then have to give it up for adoption. Why put myself through that? I’d be wasting up to a year of my life.

          • Mary Lee

            So, “me me me me me me.” The Nazis didn’t see the Jews as human. Slave owners didn’t see slaves as people. Just because you don’t CONSIDER your own child to be a human being doesn’t actually make it so. Your child has a heart, arms and legs, a brain, and, oh fingernails, by the way. So your child will be ripped apart, then pieced together in a tray. Your baby will be put into a blender, or into a furnace, and thrown away like garbage. Your baby, who may have the talent for dancing, or singing, or might be a doctor some day, or might save someone else’s life, or write a beautiful novel. Your child. But you want to kill your own child because YOU DON’T LIKE HIM. (I’m just going to use the male pronoun here.) And you don’t want your child to have even an adoptive mother who loves him. Your child’s will to live doesn’t matter. But he has one. Because when that abortionist starts to dismember him, he will CRY, and he will try to escape the abortionists’ tools.

            But really, go ahead. Because it’s all about YOU.

          • Aruana Zeelie

            Yup, it seems like it is. Sorry, you can’t guilt me. It is MY choice. MINE. No one else’s. Nobody is going to tell me what to do with MY body. MINE.

          • Mary Lee

            I am talking about your child’s body. What about his bodily autonomy? What about his will? There might be a woman out there who is desperate to be a mother, has been on a waitlist to adopt a child, and will love your child so much, and your child will grow strong, and smart, and do wonderful things. His life is his own. It is not your decision to “allow” him to live. We are not in this world for ourselves. We cannot claim liberty this way. It does not exist. Your child deserves to live, and to be loved, and nothing–NOTHING–can trump that, ever.

          • Basset_Hound

            I’ll go down the the Blue Goose Cantina and drink a couple of their bathtub size Margaritas. Then I’ll get in my car and drive home, cuz nobody’s got a right to tell me what to do with MY body. MINE.

          • Mary Lee

            That’s right! OR your car! It’s your body and your car!

          • Basset_Hound

            And if I run into another car and kill a small child, then I should be able to buzz away and not be held accountable.

          • Mary Lee

            Whenever I read Aruana’s posts, I hear Daffy Duck’s voice. “MINE! MINEMINEMINEMINEMINE!”

          • Basset_Hound

            I just hear a squawling two year old in an adult’s body.

          • Ed

            Mary, you have a wonderful knack for exposing the lame, self-centered argument of the anti-lifers. Keep it up!

          • Mary Lee

            Thank you, Ed, I appreciate it.

          • Calvin Freiburger

            “I do not see it as a human being.”

            Then you’re ignorant.

            A decent person would put in the effort to find out whether it’s a human being before deciding to abort.

          • Angle

            Please I think you just needed someone that you can trust and just talk about all of it the good and the bad and the ugly. My daughter in law was raped and went through hell deciding what to do. If you want to talk to me let me know, I might be able to help. To the pro life maybe you should care and love this girl instead of beating her up. You could save two lives instead of none.

          • Mary Lee

            I feel very sad for her, and very concerned. I might be blunt, but I am not being cruel or calling her names. I believe she is capable of loving her child. But she also needs to know the truth.

          • Abb

            Everyone, it’s obvious Aruana is being sarcastic. No one is this petty, selfish, uneducated and immature. Babies in your belly aren’t human beings? My 4 year old knows more science than this. What are they, Aruana?

          • Aruana Zeelie

            They are a “clump of cells”, I think someone down the page described them as. I really don’t see them as “human”. Have I insulted anyone here because we differ in viewpoint? I see that you feel the need to do that. Tolerance.

          • Calvin Freiburger

            You clearly don’t care whether the things you’re saying about the baby are even true. There is no “tolerance” for such heartless dishonesty.

          • Julia

            We are all “clumps of cells”. And it’s obviously human – unique human DNA, etc. (besides what do humans reproduce if not humans – cats?)
            What you see that child is makes no difference. The slave owners did see their slaves as “humans”, but that’s not what matters – what matters are the scientific facts that preborn children and slaves are human, regardless of what you consider them.

          • Calvin Freiburger

            You’re right. Her comments are, quite possibly, the purest display of narcissism we’ve ever seen here. Facts don’t matter, responsibility doesn’t exist, her greed rules all, without the slightest concern for who has to DIE because of her favored lifestyle. I of course pray for her redemption, but fear bringing it about is beyond the power of Internet commenters. So in the meantime, all we can do is appeal to people with better consciences in our fight to protect the unborn from people like her.

          • Cynthia16

            HAVING SEX IN THE FIRST PLACE was your choice. NOT an abortion. An abortion isn’t YOUR choice, another person is involved then. (No, not your baby daddy either!) If you don’t want to get pregnant, DON’T HAVE SEX.

          • Aruana Zeelie

            I’m not into the whole abstinence thing. I’ll have sex when I want to have sex. I take birth control and my boyfriend/s use condoms, BUT should something happen (condom break) etc. I want the option to have an abortion. O, and I am very much for the morning after pill as well. NOBODY is going to make decisions about my body but ME.

          • Fiona Miller-Heagney

            We are not talking about YOUR body!!! We are talking about your baby’s body. How can people not get this. I defy you to have an ultrasound and then make that choice. I have seen my child scratch her head, suck her thumb, stretch, react to music! 2 wrongs don’t make a right.

          • Basset_Hound

            When my daughter was a sophomore in high school, she was a bitter, foul mouthed little snot. I didn’t particularly want to raise her. Should I have dismembered her?

          • Mary Lee

            No, it is not your choice. We do not have the right to kill our children. If you don’t want to be pregnant, fine, there are ways to prevent it. But you are already a mother. Your child doesn’t need your consent to exist, and you have no say in whether or not he or she lives or dies. It is not convenient, no, but it is the truth. It is not convenient for me to admit to the humanity of our unborn children, but it cannot be denied. Our rights end where another person’s body begins.

            I have the CHOICE to punch people in the face, but I don’t do it. Just because I have the ability to choose something doesn’t mean I have the RIGHT to do it.

          • Aruana Zeelie

            Of course I have a choice. I choose not to have the child. You don’t have the right to make a judgment on me. It is between me and my God. It’s got nothing to do with you. I will have a child at a time and a place that is convenient for me to have it. I will not be derailed by an unwanted pregnancy.

          • Mary Lee

            Well, technically you have a choice. You can either kill your child or not. I am not judging YOU, I am judging your actions. Your life will not be DERAILED, it will be exactly what it should be. It will probably be even richer. Your baby deserves to live, and deserves to be loved by you. Your life will be temporarily inconvenienced. I have been through this. It is not the worst thing that ever happened to me. It might be the very best thing that ever happened to me. I never thought I would say that, and I used to be pro-choice, but please at least consider the beauty that can come from this. Abortion is death, destruction, it is bloody, it is painful for the baby, and often painful for the mother. I have met many, many women who regret their abortions. I have never met any woman who regrets having her child, not even my friend who gave her child up for adoption.

            Life is painful. It is hard. We are not entitled to destroy others, to kill, in order to live as we believe we are entitled. Your baby’s right to live will not mean your life will be derailed. It will mean that you are strong, you are loving, you are good, and you can STILL have a life–an amazing life, more amazing than you ever thought. If you kill your child, you will have chosen the saddest, saddest thing that has ever existed. You may try to make up for it by having another baby, or becoming a partner in a law firm, but your baby will always be dead, killed in a vicious, brutal way.

            Please choose love.

          • SturJen

            As a person who had that same choice given to me and chose to raise the child ON welfare, w/out the father, I CAN. You chose to kill your son or daughter. You’re still a Mom, just of a baby you killed.
            My choice was to keep my child, go back to get a degree from Tech School and get off welfare. My child was not killed for my stupidity. I grew up, got a grip and realized that I was being stupid to couple with lame men.
            Twenty years later, the kid is in the military, I’ve got a great job and I married a good man.
            You chose poorly and the rest of your life will be that poor unless you gain a lot of self-respect, and respect for life.
            GOD will judge you on what you do to those who look to you for sustenance. What did you do? You killed it, instead of doing what you could. You’re weak, and need to grow up.
            If I’m being harsh, so effing what! Sometimes you need to be told how your life has been nothing but one mistake after another -bad choices. Time to make good ones. Can you?

          • Aruana Zeelie

            That was YOUR choice. It isn’t mine. Btw, what gives you the idea that I’ve had an abortion? Where have I actually said that I’ve done it? I want the CHOICE of it.

          • Mary Lee

            And I want the choice of eating a Wendy’s double cheeseburger without it going to my thighs and clogging my arteries. It doesn’t exist.

            We always have the choice to do the right thing or to do the wrong thing. We all have the choice to murder, steal, lie, we all have the choice to be kind, to be loving. We choose things all the time. Having the ability to choose does not mean we have a RIGHT to choose these things. We do not have the RIGHT to kill anyone, especially our own children. Abortion doesn’t “terminate a pregnancy” and make the problem go away. It kills a baby, and creates more destruction and sadness and grief. That doesn’t mean I think all women who have abortions are evil; I believe they are LIED TO. The pro-choice movement is predicated on lies. This is also a fact (see: Bernard Nathanson, and Anthony Levitano). It is manipulation, it preys on your fears and your own desires. But life…..life is beautiful. It is amazing. I became pregnant with my daughter at a very, very crucial turning point in my life. Did she “derail” my life? No, she made it better. She turned me around. She is the most beautiful thing I never expected or planned to happen to me. When I first saw her heart beating, and heard it beating, when she was only 8 weeks along, it was like my pro-choice beliefs dissolved and I understood. This is a person, who deserves to live. And now, when she gets an A in Math, she also deserves some chocolate cake.

          • Aruana Zeelie

            Now, don’t be shocked, but I am a Democrat, so I applaud all that President Obama has done on this matter.

          • Mary Lee

            I’m a secular pro-life Libertarian. So? What are you trying to achieve here? What are you looking for? Approval? Permission? On the interwebs we can find permission for anything, whether it’s abortion, or committing suicide, or blowing up a building, or being a pedophile.

            Are you trying to change our minds? It won’t work. I’ve already been where you are. I’ve already been pro-choice. I know every single argument.

            Are you trying to convince yourself of something? What is it you want? Do you want to gloat that you have sex all the time? Many of us have sex all the time. Pro-lifers aren’t against sex at all. Pro-lifers are not against women. Pro-lifers are not against CHOICES. Pro-lifers are against killing our own children. If that makes us unreasonable to you, so be it. I am not quite sure what it is you want, or why you are here, on this site.

          • Aruana Zeelie

            I am only highlighting a difference in ideology. I am not condemning pro-lifers at all. You have your beliefs and I have mine. I just expressed why I appreciate President Obama’s stance on the issue. It is one of the major reasons why I am not a Republican.

          • Mary Lee

            Obama believes babies who survive abortions should be left to die. He’s also the most corrupt and oppressive president since Nixon.

            It is not my BELIEF that someone dies in abortion….it is the truth. I don’t BELIEVE they dismember and decapitate the baby, it is the truth. I don’t BELIEVE they inject poison into the baby’s little heart and burn it to death, it is the truth. It is my BELIEF that Spring is the most glorious of all the seasons. It is my BELIEF that Simon Baker is the most beautiful man on earth. There is a difference. Can you spot it?

            You still didn’t answer my question, just spouted platitudes and nonsense. “You have your beliefs, and I have mine.” If your “belief” is that abortion is great to have on hand as birth control–since that is what you have implied, then I am not sure what you hope to gain by being here.

          • Aruana Zeelie

            I actually stumbled onto this site via Twitchy. I’ve sort of gotten bored now. I should probably leave now. I’ve said what I wanted to say. Thanks for being so open and accepting of my viewpoint.

          • Mary Lee

            You are boring us, too. I’m so sorry we aren’t open and accepting of killing our own children. Sorry we believe in accountability. Sorry that somehow makes us “intolerant.” Yeesh.

            Go hang out at Jezebel with Chandra. Adios.

          • Aruana Zeelie

            I’m more a HuffPo girl, but I’ll check out Jezebel.

          • JDC

            “I’m more a HuffPo girl”

            That explains a lot…

          • Aruana Zeelie

            Yes, it means I’m a proud liberal an not bogged down in conservative dogma.

          • Scott Z

            “On the interwebs we can find permission for anything, whether it’s abortion, or committing suicide, or blowing up a building, or being a pedophile.”
            You’re not saying suicide is morally equivalent to those other three, are you?

          • Mary Lee

            You bet I am.

          • Scott Z

            Lol! Are you actually saying me killing myself is morally equivalent to me killing someone else?

          • Mary Lee

            How is suicide ever a good thing? The devastation it leaves in its wake…..I’ve had a relative commit suicide. It is horrifying and sad. Abortion–the killing of our children in a vicious, brutal way, for the sake of convenience–is just as bad. All of the things I mentioned kill and/or destroy something, and all have terrifying and long-reaching effects.

            I will admit that those who commit suicide and those women who feel the perceived need to abort their child are suffering; they are in a gripping fear, and see no other way out. This makes me sad.

          • Scott Z

            Me killing myself is SAD. Me killing someone else is BAD. It is inaccurate (and quite offensive) to group the act of suicide with the acts of mass murder and rape.

            EDIT: I did not say, and am not saying, suicide is a good thing.

          • Mary Lee

            I agree. But the point I was making was that on the internet you can find support and permission to do things we ought not to do.

          • Scott Z

            Oh, okay. Sorry for misunderstanding, and thank you for taking the time to explain.

          • Rebecca Downs

            I had such a feeling before, but now I definitely have a feeling that Aruana is here to rub the pro-abortion side in our faces. And you know what, regardless as to if you’ve had an abortion, I actually think you are much more selfish and naive than those who have had abortions. Most women who have abortions don’t go around singing about how they wanted/were glad for that choice. They’re vulnerable, scared, confused, etc. They feel like they have no way out and then Planned Parenthood comes along, to bring it back to the topic here actually, and convinces them a baby will just ruin their lives and since that baby’s life would have been ruined, will thank his/her mother for such a torturous death as abortion and then guess what? They take your money and want nothing else to do with you…!

          • http://www.facebook.com/anna.strakele Anna Strakele

            false. their humanity is severely less than an adult. human DNA does not equate a zygote/embryo/fetus with any adult. until that fetus is able to survive on its on without being connected to another human, it is not its own person. it is not as human as the mother.

            and “our rights end where another person begins”? ummm, our body never ends. once that fetus is separated from us, THEN it is separate. but the entire time the umbilical cord is attached to it, the fetus remains a part of our body.

            i am so sorry that you accept the nullification of your rights based on the union of two cells that otherwise you would spare no thought for. i am sorry that you have such little appreciation for the constitution. i am sorry that you have such little appreciation for yourself. i am sorry that you have such little respect for yourself and women in general. i am glad I’m not you. because you make me sick in so many ways.

          • Mary Lee

            I’m sorry, again. Uh….biologically, your statement is so utterly FAIL-TASTIC I don’t know where to begin!

            According to your logic, scissors makes you a person! SCIENCE! Pro-abortion science! Anna, please, you’re making yourself look really bad and incredibly ignorant and foot-stompy. I seriously feel embarrassed for you. Your lack of knowledge and lack of education and inability to reason and use logic is pathetic. I feel bad even debating you….I feel like a lioness playing with a pill bug.

          • Mary Lee

            I am going to call you Faily McFailerson.

          • Basset_Hound

            Or Moaning Myrtle….

          • Christina Elaine

            Just to clarify, the word “fetus” comes from Latin (foetus) and it means “small child” so it’s not contradicting the fact that when you are pregnant, a baby is living within a woman’s body and developing naturally. What if you replaced the word “mistake” above with “another person”? Because the fact of the matter is, becoming pregnant means that a new life has been created inside you and that is a human person. That new human person cannot live without you as the mother until he or she has developed sufficiently to survive outside the womb. You are that child’s lifeline. Saying you don’t see why you have to live with this child is like saying you don’t see why your child has to live.

            I agree that childbirth is not easy and every woman has pain in labor. If there is a medical necessity a Caesarean section is possible for your child to be born and sometimes labor is induced. But is that sufficient cause for you to say that you want to have the choice whether or not to go to a doctor to have the child killed? May I remind you that you already have that choice? Just as any person on this earth has a choice between right and wrong, good and evil, we have the freedom to choose. But that does not mean we have the right to take another person’s life, especially one who is dependent on us for their very life.

            However you see yourself, I want you to know that God loves you. You are precious to Him and so is your child. You can take or leave His love – it is a choice; it is a freedom. But God’s love is freely offered, and all you have to do is accept it. What would happen if you metaphorically “walked two moons” in your child’s moccasins and were asked the question, “Why do you have to live?” What would be your answer?

            God encourages us to choose life, that we may live in abundance and happiness eternally. Think positively :) Choose carefully. A small child’s life hangs in the balance.

          • Mary Lee

            I have to say….pregnancy and labor wasn’t even so bad, in my case. I thought it would be horrible. It wasn’t. But years later, I was in a terrible accident, where I my left leg was completed ripped and bloody, and, seriously, THAT hurt about 80 times more than having a baby. I’m not even kidding!

          • Fiona Miller-Heagney

            If you didn’t want to go through the pregnancy why risk getting pregnant. No birth control method is 100% safe. Yes you made a mistake. You will make an even bigger mistake by killing your baby. You will have to live with your mistake. How convenient to refer to your unborn baby as a fetus. What do you call putting an end to life?

          • SturJen

            Sex = babies. That condom broke, that pill was skipped (and really? So important that you don’t want kids but you can’t gather 2 brain cells together to take that pill? How come the kid has to suffer for your lameness?)
            Your choice was to f*ck. That’s it. YOUR choice. Killing your Son or Daughter because you cannot figure out that sex = babies is murder. Justify it to yourself all you want, but you DO know the truth. Don’t want babies? Don’t F*ck.

          • Aruana Zeelie

            Not f*cking isn’t an option. Not getting pregnant is. And again, if ANYTHING should happen that leads to an UNWANTED pregnancy, I want the CHOICE to terminate it. I’m not going to carry a baby for 9 months and then have to give it up for adoption – as one option.

          • http://www.facebook.com/TMH1974 Tracy Michelle Hargett

            Give yourself more credit. Try going without sex for 30 days. If that’s too long try a week. Then another week. It can be done. It can be DIFFICULT, yes, but it can be done. And really – adoption is not all that bad. See my previous post.

          • Aruana Zeelie

            Why would I ever want to go without sex? I have not as yet had any slip ups – thank goodness, but I want to know that if I ever should have one, the abortion option is available. Or the morning after pill. I would definitely want an abortion if I was ever raped as well.

          • Abb

            I’ve had a husband that I didn’t want to bother with. He was a burden financially and emotionally. Why couldn’t I kill him? Why can’t a woman have that choice? Why can’t a woman control her own destiny? Why should I have to suffer?

          • Aruana Zeelie

            That’s a silly argument.

          • Mary Lee

            Oh, I don’t know. You might want to not have sex so that you can maybe STUDY FOR FINALS and OBTAIN A DEGREE so you can actually make something of yourself.

            I wasn’t an “abstinence only” gal, never have been. But there is a time to do things and a time not to do things. We teach our children to go to the bathroom at specific times and places. What’s MORE natural than going to the bathroom? But we don’t go, “Sure, Timmy, just pee there on the sidewalk, because it’s your choice.”

            When I was studying in grad school and writing my theses (plural for thesis), I didn’t have sex all the time. I had to make sure I got high grades so that I could graduate. What’s this ridiculous obsession with sex? There are many pleasures in life–baking, taking walks, holding babies, playing with animals, swimming, eating a really, really amazing lasagna…..Frankly, STDs aren’t worth it, either. You can scoff all you like, but man oh man, it might be a good idea to straighten out your priorities.

          • Aruana Zeelie

            What gave you the idea that I was NOT studying at the moment? You are making assumptions. That is one of the main reasons I cannot afford to get pregnant, even though I am taking birth control. Again, should I get pregnant due to my birth control failing or a condom breaking, I want to know that I have the option of having an abortion to prevent an unwanted pregnancy. Again, I am not prepared to go through a pregnancy and all it entails. Disruption of my studies, the physical changes etc.

          • Mary Lee

            Yes, we know. Abortion is birth control! It’s just a clump of cells!

            I am not sure if you’re really this obtuse or just playing some silly game on this thread. You have nothing to say, no question to answer, and no facts to present. You love abortion, you think it’s great, you have more sex than all of us but are also some kind of scholar! *snort* Perhaps I make the assumption that you are not studying because your posts are biologically, logically, and scientifically ignorant, and your syntax is immature.

          • Aruana Zeelie

            Refer to my reply on another comment you made. I’m sure you’ll find it.

          • Rebecca Downs

            As I responded earlier, I think she’s just playing some silly game on this thread…

          • Mary Lee

            I think you might be right.

            (I just played *sad trombone* in my head.)

          • Calvin Freiburger

            “Why would I ever want to go without sex?”

            This says it all. That you can’t even think of a time to “ever” put it aside for your own long-term good, that you can’t appreciate the fact that you might create a whole new human being that it would be evil to kill, encapsulates everything pathetic and foul about contemporary society.

          • Basset_Hound

            So how about surgical sterilization? That way you can have as much sex as you like.

          • Aruana Zeelie

            I’ll take it into consideration and look into it. Thanks for the suggestion.

          • http://www.facebook.com/beverly.harlton Beverly Harlton

            Not “f*cking” isn’t an option? Really? You have absolutely no choice in the matter? I doubt you’re a prostitute or being held captive for sex. I suppose it’s possible that you’ve been diagnosed with nymphomania. Those are the only three situations I can come up with that make avoiding intercourse impossible. Other than that, you’re just plain unwilling to control your impulses, which is pretty darn sad (unless you actually have a medical condition that inhibits your self-control, in which case, I apologize.) Seriously, though, if you can’t live without orgasms but can’t abide the thought of conceiving (which is the NATURAL end of sex), I recommend that you acquire a “marital aid.” They’re more expensive than a condom, but way cheaper than a baby.

          • Basset_Hound

            Or a good therapist who treats sexual addiction….

          • http://www.facebook.com/beverly.harlton Beverly Harlton

            Even better.

          • Aruana Zeelie

            “Marital aid” ……….. yes, the trusty vibrator always comes in handy when I have my er, urges. This might shock you, although I’m not sure why it would, but I have several – in different colors. No, I’m a sexual being and abstinence is not an option. Why would I want to abstain if there are birth control options like the pill and condoms? I am a very responsible person, but I want to know that an abortion is available should those FAIL for whatever reason. Pregnancy is a life changer and I need to finish my education before I can even think of having children. This might shock people even more here, but I also see myself NOT getting married – ever – and having a child, WHEN I am ready – career being settled, or on its way etc. When I can financially afford to be pregnant.

          • http://www.facebook.com/athena.keener.1 Athena Keener

            What do you have against adoption? I’ve seen it in your posts multiple times. My husband and I struggled with miscarriage after miscarriage. But we just adopted our 1st baby girl in March. And we are VERY close with our baby’s 1st mama. Adoption is beautiful, it is the most unselfish kind of love ANYONE can display. There are resources for you, people who would do anything to help you, if you just looked. I know you said you aren’t fanatical about religion, but I am praying for you. Please, please choose life.

          • Calvin Freiburger

            I agree with you 100%, but for future reference, no F-bombs.

          • http://www.facebook.com/TMH1974 Tracy Michelle Hargett

            You say it’s between “you and God.” Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but God is Pro-Life. You will not have God on your side with this one. And you say that you “don’t want to go though the pregnancy, esp. if your birth control method failed.” I can understand that you might feel trapped or frustrated in this situation. But there are other situations where someone might feel trapped and frustrated. Pro football players suffer injuries all the time and must be out for several games at once. Do they complain? Probably so. Do they like it? Probably not. But that injury is not going to heal itself overnight just like that baby is not going to grow itself overnight. This life is not guaranteed to anyone to be pain and/or frustration-free. THANK GOD that adoption is available to newly pregnant women who do not want to be mothers. And even then, you can take pride in that you would be a special kind of mother – a birth mother. Pain is temporary. God’s glory and love are everlasting. May as well do what He says and try to see that glory of His upon death.

          • Aruana Zeelie

            Okay, bottom line: I do not want to carry a child to term – at all. I do not want to give birth to that child. Your religious viewpoints are of no importance to me. To each his own.

          • Basset_Hound

            Religion has nothing to do with it, sweetpea. There are atheists and agnostics who are pro-life because they see abortion as the ultimate violation of human life. In fact, one of the regular columnists on this site claims to be secular.

          • http://www.facebook.com/TMH1974 Tracy Michelle Hargett

            Well then what you CHOOSE to do is to murder your child if and when you become pregnant, plain and simple. Don’t fool yourself, you can only dodge that bullet so many times. You have sex 5 times a week you’ll be pregnant in a month if not sooner. Plus – good luck picking out an abortion clinic that won’t KILL YOU in the process of killing your baby. I am DEAD SERIOUS.

          • Aruana Zeelie

            I appreciate your viewpoint, but I definitely don’t have sex 5 times a week. Is there a medical study you can reference that indicates that should I have sex five times a week I WILL get pregnant? I would really like to see that study. What happens if I have sex 7 times a week? I wouldn’t go the Kermit Gosnell case as proof that ALL abortion clinics are bad. Yes, I read extensively on the case. There are well run clinics as well – Planned Parenthood clinics. I don’t know what the statistics are, but I’m sure it is available.

          • Mary Lee

            It’s true. I have three friends who had “safe, legal” abortions when they were between 16-20 years old. All three of them are now unable to have a child. One of them became dependent on drugs, and one of them became an alcoholic. Neither of these two has been able to sustain a romantic relationship. And the third tried so hard to have a baby, and was heartbroken to realize the one chance she had to have a child was the one she decided to throw away. She was devastated. Happily, she has made peace with herself, and adopted a gorgeous little girl.

            These girls were lucky they didn’t hemorrhage or have to go the ER. Abortion is a ridiculously dangerous procedure, even in “safe, legal” conditions.

          • http://www.facebook.com/anna.strakele Anna Strakele

            woohoo! finally! a like-minded woman :) i agree with you fully.

          • Mary Lee

            You mean “a like-minded CHILD.” Fixed it for you!

        • Basset_Hound

          I don’t know about you, but I’d rather be a “brood mare” any day of the week than a stupid brain dead sex toy.

          • http://www.facebook.com/anna.strakele Anna Strakele

            yea. no. i don’t want to be a broodmare so some infertile couple can ignore the MILLIONS OF OTHER KIDS ALREADY EXISTING AROUND THE ENTIRE WORLD and think they can force me to produce a child for them. THAT is just SICK.

          • Mary Lee

            Wow, tantrums, much?

        • http://www.facebook.com/anna.strakele Anna Strakele

          ok, quit saying “pro-abortion”….no one is pro-abortion. pro choice is not pro abortion. we are in support of a woman’s right to choose whether or not she wants to go through a pregnancy.

          and i don’t think that people who desire pregnancy should be called broodmares. but its obvious that you and every other pro lifer on this page sees every woman who chooses to abort as a broodmare, an incubator for others. for your information, i am more of a person than any zygote, any embryo, or any fetus. i AM my own person. they are not. they have to be literally attached to another person to exist. i don’t. i can perform all my bodily functions on my own. they can’t. i am sentient. all my five senses work. a fetus does not begin to develop any sensory anythings until 5-6 months along. if a baby can form from zygote to baby without being attached to another person (by definition, being a part of the woman), then they can be considered a separate being. but they can’t so they’re not. you think that being ok with aborting an insentient clump of cells is dehumanizing. i find it much more dehumanizing that at the second of conception, a woman ceases to be a person. she is now simply an incubator, whether she wants to be or not. her unarguable life is completely disregarded and the potential life of a potential child is all that matters now. her discomfort, unwillingness, and pain is of no concern to you. all you care about is the mere existence of the potential child. you don’t care about the life it will have after birth. you don’t give a single shit if the woman’s life is in danger. the potential life connected to her is all you care about. she could die and you wouldn’t care one freaking bit because all you care about is the insentient glob of cells that is killing her. you’re such hypocrites. quit calling yourself pro-life. thats a huge lie. you’re pro-fetus. you’re pro-existence. you don’t care about the life the child will live. you don’t care about the life of the woman even a little bit. you only care that the child merely exists. quit fooling yourself with this pro-“life” crap. call yourself what you really are. anti-abortionist. anti-choice. anti-woman. hypocrite.

          i will continue to advocate for those who can feel and comprehend and live in the injustice that you want to force upon them. i am pro-woman. i will stand up for my sisters and their right to control their reproductive system, for their right to decide the size of their families, for their right to remain citizens protected by the constitutions, instead of cast aside, rights wrenched away to make way for a non-citizen who honestly doesn’t care either way.

          and do you really think that a child in Heaven will resent their mother? do you really think that when their mom gets there, the child will turn their back on them? i don’t think so. i think that the child will enjoy heaven. if the child would rather be on earth, then heaven must not be as great as the bible says.

          • Scott Z

            “and do you really think that a child in Heaven will resent their mother? do you really think that when their mom gets there, the child will turn their back on them? i don’t think so. i think that the child will enjoy heaven. if the child would rather be on earth, then heaven must not be as great as the bible says.”
            This. I honestly don’t understand why so many of the people who claim to truly believe in an afterlife are so upset by abortion.

            Also, if Christianity is true, then aborting me would have saved me from Hell.

          • Mary Lee

            When it comes to hatred directed at me by a pro-abort, I am TEFLON, dude!

          • http://twitter.com/SicBorodin Sic Borodin

            It’s so cute when pro-aborts pretend to be Christian, or to understand Christian thought.

            Here, I’ll give you a clue: “if Christianity is true,” God abhors abortion. Best not to concede that premise, because you’re not going to get any slack once you do from playing logician. If Christianity is true, you’re done. Abortion is evil, and that’s that. Exeunt.

            Oh, and the illimitable hubris inherent in goofballs presuming to know what heaven is like! Like it’s just earth again, but kind of nicer. That’s always worth a laugh!

          • Scott Z

            Would my soul not have gone to Heaven if I was killed before I was born?

            “presuming to know what heaven is like! Like it’s just earth again, but kind of nicer.”
            Is Heaven not a more pleasant place than earth?

          • http://twitter.com/SicBorodin Sic Borodin

            You need baptism to get to heaven, goofball, and destroying an innocent child in utero deprives him of his baptism. So you’ll have to start Gosnelling born infants right after baptism, but oh hey that’s right thou shalt not murder.

            Remember what I said about how cute it is for non-Christians to expect Christians to live up to your straw-man, half-conceived version of Christianity? It’s still just adorable.

            Now let me get this straight: I JUST SAID how stupid and hubristic it is to presume to know heaven, and now you’re trying to goad me into proclaiming what heaven is like. How exactly do you expect me to answer?

          • Scott Z

            “You need baptism to get to heaven, goofball, and destroying an innocent child in utero deprives him of his baptism.”
            According to most Protestants, baptism is completely irrelevant to getting into Heaven.

            “So you’ll have to start Gosnelling born infants right after baptism, but oh hey that’s right thou shalt not murder.”
            So? Would it not send the souls of the infants straight to Heaven?

            So it’s possible Heaven is an awful place to be? Besides, doesn’t the Bible contain several descriptions of Heaven. Is believing the Bible stupid and prideful?

          • Kristiburtonbrown

            Well, first, I’m hoping you will be saved from Hell one day. And second, speaking as a Christian, it is actually a very comforting thought to know that aborted babies end up in Heaven. But that doesn’t take away the pain, cruelty, or wrongness of their deaths. For example, most of my family are Christians. I know they will go to Heaven when they die. However, I would still be very upset if someone were to kill them. Knowing where they are doesn’t mean I am – or should be – ok with them being killed…

          • Scott Z

            Aren’t there already lots of people in Hell, though? I mean, if God didn’t think them worth saving, why would He think me?

            Sorry for not responding to all of your post; I’ll try to get to the rest later.

          • Mary Lee

            OH my gosh, you really should read this entire thread before commenting. Yes, you ARE pro-abortion. For answers to your refutable, ridiculous “z/e/f” comments, please see other threads.

            Also, “brood mare” and “incubator” again. Oh, heavens, you pro-aborts are too much. So predictable!

          • Kristiburtonbrown

            Your argument falls apart in large part when you consider that not all human beings are just as independent as you after birth. For one thing, it’s true that newborns are no longer technically “connected” to their mothers, but they will definitely die without the intervention and reliance upon another person. Are people with disabilities; people in wheelchairs; people on ventilators, newborns who need feeding tubes, etc. “sentient,” with “all their five senses”? Can they “perform all their bodily functions on their own”? No, clearly not. And yet I have a hard time believing you would argue that people should be allowed to freely kill them…

      • http://amylovesbrian.briamy.com/ Barfaroni

        Why are you here?

        • Mary Lee

          Yeah, why doesn’t she just go to Jezebel or RH Reality Check or I Love Abortion (which may or may not exist, I think I made it up, but it wouldn’t surprised me if it’s really out there)…..She would love it there. They bash pro-lifers (oh, I’m sorry, “ANTI-CHOICERS” *snigger*) and baby humans (oh, I’m sorry, “PARASITES”) all day long!

          • Cynthia16

            Since I’m Pro-life, that makes them Pro-death, right? (Oh, I’m sorry, Pro-CHOICE. Excuse me..)

          • Mary Lee

            LOL, yeah, they’re really for choices! That’s why they call women “incubators” and “brood mares” and little babies “parasites” and “intruders” and “invaders” and “not human.” And WE’RE the liars in this debate? WE are hateful and stupid? WE are? Pfffft.

          • 7stephen3

            Yes
            we are the liars! How dare we try and convince someone that human beings reproduce…..wait for it…….human beings! Yep, I know it’s hard to understand, with all that silly biology and stuff but it’s true, (*wringing hands and maniacally laughing to myself hoping to falsely lead another person into my evil ways!!!!, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha!!!*)

          • Basset_Hound

            I think there’s something called imnotsorry.com that might be the closest thing to I Love Abortion.

          • 7stephen3

            What about these wonderful gems Mary….”consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy,” “you’re a man so you can’t say anything about it,” (since when did argument have gender?). “Unless you’re willing to take care of the children already here then you should be quiet,” (that’s one of my favorites). “it’s a *potential* human/life/child not an *actual* human/life/child”

          • Mary Lee

            Yes, those are fund. I can refute all of them! Line ‘em up in a row, like cans on a fence! PEW! PEW! PEW!

          • Mary Lee

            *fun….ARGH I CANNOT TYPE ON MY PHONE

          • Mary Lee

            *fun….argh, I cannot type on my phone

          • Mary Lee

            “Consent to eating Big Macs is not consent to obesity!” “Consent to smoking is not consent to cancer!” Essentially, the pro-abortion philosophy is “I am not accountable and responsible for my own decisions and I will even kill my own baby to keep it that way!”

            Also, have you noticed that pro-aborts confuse the term “women’s lives” with “women’s LIFESTYLES”…? Whenever I hear a pro-abort say something about “women’s lives,” I always add “styles” at the end, in my head. Or out loud. The way the characters in The Office added “TO THE” whenever Dwight would say “Assistant Regional Manager.”

          • Basset_Hound

            Actually, in 1993, writer Carolyn Hax came out and said that women owe their lifestyles to the convenience of legal abortion in an article entitled “No Birth No Pangs” which ran March 21, 1993 in the Washington Post. If you google it, you’ll find it’s behind a pay wall, but I’ve read a reprint an a book, and believe me, it’s revolting…

            http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-937997.html

      • http://www.facebook.com/susie0418 Susie Carlo-Colon

        Ok so if you dont want children then either be abstinent or take the proper methods of birth control. Abortion is murder, its the same thing as shooting a child in the head.

      • SturJen

        Sweetie? Brood mares are chosen because they show good genetics to pass on to the next generation. You, duma$$, possess none of those qualities. In fact, if you were a ~ahem~ ‘mare,’ you’d be at the glue factory by now.
        Again, Duma$$, if you don’t want children, don’t have sex. In fact, in your case, I would recommend surgical sterilization. I don’t want you reproducing on ‘accident.’

        • http://www.facebook.com/beverly.harlton Beverly Harlton

          Well, you’re officially my new favourite commenter. When my (future) husband and I do conceive, I’ll bear the name “brood mare” with pride!

      • Fiona Miller-Heagney

        Brood mare… what an insult! You should be so lucky to be a mother. On second thought people like you would be better never being a mother.

      • steffy v

        if one does not want to have a child then don’t have sex…if one has sex and conceives a life and then realize that they are not ready to raise a child or feel like the child will prevent them from furthering their career or any other selfish reason then give the baby up for adoption….one has no right to take another’s life for selfish reasons period. the choice to be a mother comes before conception and after birth. once a woman conceives a life, it is their nature that calls them to carry the child to full development. the moment that all human beings have the right to kill another human being due to selfish reasons then would it be ok for a woman to abort an unwanted child in the womb but seriously that day will never come because that would be the end of the world as we know it

    • http://www.facebook.com/jevelerino Erin Owens

      I love how they call the child a baby this time. Usually it’s a ‘fetus’ or ‘clump of cells’. They acknowledge it as a human child when it’s convenient for them. Nice.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000875897721 Graham Cummins

    Well, aside from the fact that PP mostly do cancer screenings, std screenings, gyno care, contraception, and they even offer pediatric care so your child gets medical assistance when needed. I’m sure a child would rather their mother die from undetected breast cancer or HIV, ya right….. This article is insane, as before women had contraception, women were having up to 20 or more pregnancies in their lifetime. They died broken and poor. The one proven method to end or reduce poverty is to empower women to control their own reproductive rights. The biggest killer of girls ages 15-19 in the world is pregnancy according to the world health organisation. The only thing that prevents that situation in first world countries is the availability of contraception, medical care and safe abortion. Pro life is just pro forced gestation. You are all about punishing women for having sex, as sex without consequences is abhorrent to you. You care nothing for the facts or a rational consideration of your actions. You would rather desperate women die from coat hangers as they realise in desperation they cannot afford another mouth to feed, or medical complications arising from a dangerous pregnancy. Pro-life? Pro death and pro poverty more like.

    • cheeriosinmypocket

      You must have found that one planned (meaning prevent) parenthood office that does what you and our President say. You must be quite young and quite uninformed or swallowing the lies told you. Prior to contraception, women were not having up to 20 or more pregnancies in their lifetime and they did not die broken and poor. What was intact at that time (prior to Margaret Sangor, racist and eugenicist) was, for the most part, (a) Marriage was a lifelong commitment, not a fleeting fancy; (b) Children were wanted and were the healthy/natural end of your word–sex– but real words marital embrace or conjugal union among many others, (c) sadly, women who fool themselves into thinking sex should be without your word–consequences (but real words owning responsibility) are looking for love in all the wrong places and basically are self-injurious and not being punished by anyone else…they have swallowed the feminonsense pill which is as carcinogenic as smoking. Your compassion is ingenuine if you could view what Kermit Gosnell did (and he is no different than Planned Parenthood) and still be for abortion…abortion is NOT safe–ask any baby that makes it through an abortion. If Gosnell didn’t inform you, watch MAAFA21 on youtube. Then, welcome life, enjoy life!

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandra-Vargas/617581266 Chandra Vargas

        You are a fucking idiot.

    • http://www.facebook.com/gino.hernandez.75 Gino Hernandez

      all this garbage aside, are you totally ok with having a baby ripped apart and its head crushed in the womb? how about kermit gosnell? are you ok with what he did? how about the other guy after gosnell who literally ripped babies born alive heads off with his bare hands and strangling them by jamming his finger down their throats? thats ok right so long as irresponsible women dont have to suffer the consequences of their thoughtless behavior.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandra-Vargas/617581266 Chandra Vargas

        What about the irresponsible men who get women pregnant?

        • http://twitter.com/SicBorodin Sic Borodin

          Nail ‘em with child support. Duh.

        • Brooke

          In most cases, the woman was right there with him as a consenting party. It takes two to tango, after all. If the woman does keep the baby (instead of offering it up for adoption) and the man is not in the picture, then child support is not a bad thing.

          Personally, I’m of the opinion that it would be better if both the man and woman were responsible. Married, or at least in a committed relationship, and prepared for the chance that a child may come of their choice to have sex.

    • stand up for women

      Part of our problem with our society is how we view sex. Like you said I guess it is a punishment when you get pregnant from having sex? Really? Does it not occur to people that when you have sex you can end up pregnant? Birth control is not 100% effective so now the women is in most cases forced to abort because of her boyfriend, family or friends. Have you ever talked with a post abortive women? They are suffering and regret what they have done, to think this is just another procedure that you are in and out with no kind of emotional, physical, spiritual affects is untrue, talk with women who have experienced this. If you really look at the numbers, whenever the use of contraception is introduce the number of abortions goes up, fact. As far as women whom die from coat hanger abortions that is a farce and they are currently dying in abortion clinics today. To bad the media never covers it. Did you hear about the 29 year old women who died this year from an abortion or the women abortionist Gosnell killed during an abortion. These are only a couple examples of many more. My other question is do you even know about the procedure or what these women go through? I suggest you do a little research and inform yourself of what PP really does as far as cancer screenings cause they don’t do mammograms even though they claim they do and that is also a documented fact. Maybe you are the one that doesn’t “care for the facts or rational consideration of your actions’. PP is not the only clinic that takes care of women, there are plenty of other programs out there that will screen for the stds, cancer and gyno care that don’t provide abortions, so don’t act like they are the only ones who provide these services.

    • http://www.facebook.com/liza.winnie Liza Winnie

      You are the typical proabortion advocate…using poverty as a reason to kill a child. Define poverty telling us why those of low income can’t be happy or loved and why they have less of the right to life because they don’t have money. Then you speak of safe abortion as if it were like getting a tooth pulled. Women die from abortion along with their child. Been following the news lately? We are not about punishing women for having sex, as you claim. The truth is, you are about punishing the innocent child that results from the sex. And please don’t accuse us of not caring about facts when the entire abortion industry relies on deception and lies. Example: telling women they are simply emptying their uterus leaving out the “little” detail about what they’re emptying the uterus of. Dare show these poor women the contents of the evacuation! Abortion is nothing more that a brutal procedure that takes the life of a defenseless human. THAT is a fact.

    • Kristiburtonbrown

      Yeah, Planned Parenthood provides so much pediatric care that it’s not even listed as a service in their annual report. I suppose it fits under “other services” because it’s so incredibly rare.

      Punishing women has absolutely nothing to do with this. Any person – male or female – should be willing to deal with the results of their actions in a responsible way. And killing a child you helped to create is not responsible.

      Finally, I’m not whatsoever opposed to legitimate medical care or contraception that simply acts to prevent a pregnancy (not end the life of a baby who already exists). Those are indeed necessary services that many pro-lifers support. But regardless of what other things Planned Parenthood may do – 1) They’re not the only ones providing cancer screenings, contraception, etc. to women and they’re not the savior of women. (Try a county health department, as one example.) 2) Planned Parenthood unquestionably ends the lives of thousands of babies every year. Planned Parenthood often turns women away with a “referral” instead of providing prenatal services for the babies they want to keep. They’re the complete opposite of a “baby-friendly” place.

    • Brooke

      “The biggest killer of girls ages 15-19 in the world is pregnancy according to the world health organisation. The only thing that prevents that situation in first world countries is the availability of contraception, medical care and safe abortion.”

      Wrong. The only thing that absolutely prevents pregnancy is abstinence.

      “…sex without consequences is abhorrent to you.”

      Yes, it is. Because sex leads to pregnancy. Choices have consequences. You can’t have sex and not be prepared for the fact that you could be creating a life.

      • Mary Lee

        It’s not even that it’s abhorrent….it’s just a false premise altogether. I don’t abhor it…because it doesn’t even exist. We don’t say, “Eating without consequences is abhorrent to you” because there IS no eating without consequences. When we eat whatever we want (and don’t even exercise), we gain weight. That’s just biology. That’s what happens. There is nothing we can do about it. Yes, it would be nice to be able to eat as many cheeseburgers as we want without gaining a pound, but it doesn’t work that way.

        Sex is another function, like eating, which has “consequences.” I mean, we get pregnant through sex. (Or, IVF, but that’s not the issue here.)…We can rail against biology all we want, but we cannot change it. That is how it works. There are some things that we can’t do anything about. We can’t change the weather. We can’t eat anything we want without gaining weight. We can’t stop a black bear from eating us. We can’t make Nancy Pelosi be quiet.

        But abortion goes against nature, and it goes against everything good in the world. It also cannot possibly be healthy….how could it ever be healthy? Not only does it kill a baby, but it disrupts the body’s natural function. Pregnancy is not a DISEASE. It doesn’t need to be cured. Almost all abortions are committed on healthy mothers with healthy babies, and for the sake of convenience. This is about what we ought to do and ought not to do. I’m not against sex at all. I am all for mindfulness, though. We must be mindful of everything we do, always.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1042818758 Markie Marie Works

      No such thing as a ‘safe’ abortion,,,,,,,,geeeeeeeeezus !

    • http://www.facebook.com/susie0418 Susie Carlo-Colon

      Then maybe they should be abstinent or have a hysterectomy.

  • http://twitter.com/Astraspider Ms. Spider

    Your screed would make sense if we bought into Fmr. Senator John Kyl’s assertions from 2011 (“abortion is 90% of what Planned Parenthood does” —> later: “not intended to be a factual statement”).

    PP reports that abortion is actually 3% of what it does. I know pro-lifers quibble with how this statistic is compiled, if you’ve got a different number (you prefer dollar amounts over number of visits/services), let’s take a look at it. Even if it’s bigger than 3%, I bet it won’t be big enough to preclude them from advertising their other core services.

    • Guest

      Maybe “your baby – the one you allow to live, anyway – will thank you” would be more accurate, then.

      The logic that because Planned Parenthood does other stuff, the baby-killing aspect is okay doesn’t get any less noxious for wear (nor does the ridiculous 3% stat

    • http://twitter.com/SicBorodin Sic Borodin

      Maybe “your baby will thank you, provided you don’t pay us at least $500 to kill him” would be more accurate, then. Maybe they could put a Sunday abortion coupon at the bottom as well, just in case you’re leaning toward that other “choice.”

      The logic that because Planned Parenthood does other stuff, the
      baby-killing aspect is okay doesn’t get any less noxious for wear (nor does the ridiculous 3% stat get any less spurious). If they’re so enamored of cancer screenings and not-actual-mammograms, why not scrap the abortion part altogether? Then there would be no problem, right? It’s not like abortion makes up a significant part of their budget or anything.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandra-Vargas/617581266 Chandra Vargas

        So, you don’t think women have the brains to make decisions about their own lives? A discount coupon will sway their decision? Also, they don’t kill “babies”. Terminology like that just proves the anti-choice movement is a bunch of liars. The vast majority of elective abortions take place before the fetus even resembles a human.

        • http://twitter.com/SicBorodin Sic Borodin

          If women are killing their own children, then no. No, those women do not have the brains to make decisions about (not their own lives, but) the lives of other people.

          As for “terminology,” let’s get right into it, then. Where do you draw the line on when this child gets his unalienable right to life acknowledged? And why should I trust you?

          Finally, “resembles a human”? Are you serious? You decide who deserves to live based on what he looks like? Are you the CEO of Abercrombie & Fitch?

          • Sarah Utley

            “Are you the CEO of Abercrombie & Fitch.” —That right there…that was awesome.

          • http://www.facebook.com/susie0418 Susie Carlo-Colon

            She probably is

        • http://amylovesbrian.briamy.com/ Barfaroni

          “…before the fetus even resembles a human.” Even though it doesn’t look like a baby doesn’t make it any less human. Go back under your rock.

        • Mary Lee

          Speaking of brains….You might want to read up on your biology. Nothing you’ve said is accurate or even remotely true.

        • Calvin Freiburger

          This is the moderator. For future reference, drop the F-bombs.

          • cheeriosinmypocket

            Thanks Calvin!

        • Brooke

          Technically, a zygote, embryo, fetus, or baby all “resemble a human” because they are all humans at different stages of development.

          But, really, have you ever seen the amazing photos that are out there of fetuses at early stages? Fingers, toes, faces. Definitely human.

        • Sarah Utley

          What about terminology like…oh I don’t know, “Anti-choice”? You really believe everyone who is against abortion is against all choices? Or that everyone that is for abortion is pro ALL choices? What a joke. You accuse pro-lifers of deceptive terminology,
          WHILE USING DECEPTIVE TERMINOLOGY.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1042818758 Markie Marie Works

          O.K. lets try this,,,,,,The term ‘Fetus’ is a latin word meaning ‘little one’. Little what ? Little Gopher? Nope , DNA HUMAN !!! Chandra Please get educated,,,,,,Please !

          • http://www.facebook.com/jevelerino Erin Owens

            Thank you Markie!

            “It is possible to give ‘human being’ a precise meaning. We can use it as equivalent to ‘member of the species Homo sapiens’. Whether a being is a member of a given species is something that can be determined scientifically, by an examination of the nature of the chromosomes in the cells of living organisms. In this sense there is no doubt that from the first moments of its existence an embryo conceived from human sperm and eggs is a human being.”

            Peter Singer

        • http://www.facebook.com/susie0418 Susie Carlo-Colon

          You are clueless. Do you have children? Have you ever had a child? You have no idea what you are babbling about. It is a human being from day one. What about the baby’s choice??? What choice do they get?

        • Basset_Hound

          Obviously, you don’t think women have the brains to take into consideration their economic circumstances, the character of the men they date, nor the prospects of a relationship continuing BEFORE they agree to have sex in the first place. And you accuse US of treating women like “broodmares”? Yeesh.

          • Cynthia16

            Well if they are in the situation where they are considering an abortion, and about 400,000 are every day, then no, they don’t. *yeesh…

          • Mary Lee

            YES! The sad irony is that pro-lifers truly believe in women’s strength and power and ability. Pro-lifers believe that the rights of the mother are INTRINSICALLY LINKED to the rights of her baby, not diametrically opposed to them. Pro-lifers believe that women are resourceful, smart, and capable. Abortion supporters believe women are weak, stupid, unequal to men without the ability to kill their own child. They prey on women’s fears, not their strengths. It is utterly backwards.

          • Basset_Hound

            Spot on, Mary. Their arguments fall along these lines…

            1. Sex is fun and I WAAAANNNNTTT it. Wah-wah-wah.
            2. I can’t possibly be expected to consider what kind of person my partner is, whether or not we’re compatible in the long run or even if the relationship will continue after he puts his clothes on and goes home because owwieee..owwieee thinking makes my head hurt! You’re just so mean, and you’re “shaming” me.
            3. It’s not fair to force me to do something I don’t want.

            Good grief ladies. There’s a concept at work here. It’s called “being an adult”.

          • http://twitter.com/SicBorodin Sic Borodin

            No summary of the pro-abort argument is complete without the inclusion of repeated capital letters. BH, you’ve got it down pat.

        • http://www.facebook.com/beverly.harlton Beverly Harlton

          “Baby” is a subjective term. My mother will probably consider my sister and me to be her “babies” until we’re both over 40. A person’s “baby” brother might be 16. I think the term you’re looking for is “infant.” Planned Parenthood generally kills embryos and fetuses, which, despite your best efforts, are human beings. From the moment of conception, they have their own unique set of HUMAN DNA, making them members of the human species. I suggest you refresh yourself on basic high school biology before you accuse us of lying.

        • http://www.facebook.com/UnhingedAnomaly Leah Mohnke

          If you look at dictionary.com, one of the definitions for baby is “a human fetus.” A “fetus” is “the unborn offspring of a mammal at the later stages of it’s development”. “Offspring” is defined as “children or young of a particular parent or progenitor.” Zygotes, blastocysts, and embryos are just earlier of the child while in the womb.
          I suppose you’re going to say that dictionary.com is “anti-choice” and made by “a bunch of liars,” now, aren’t you?

          • Mary Lee

            Yeah! Those lying linguists and etymologists!

      • Brooke

        “…why not scrap the abortion part altogether? Then there would be no
        problem, right? It’s not like abortion makes up a significant part of
        their budget or anything.”

        I think this is a great thought. If it’s not such a big part of their business, they could just stop doing abortions. Then we wouldn’t have such a problem with them. And they could keep providing other ‘services’ to women! Like “not-actual-mammograms”! ha ha

    • MO

      So, if the Nazis had only used the gas chambers 3% of the time but were great humanitarians the rest of the time, that would be fine in your book? You really need to come up with a different argument against pro-lifers. If you genuinely don’t believe that abortion is killing, that’s a different argument, but to mock pro-lifers who DO look at it as murder for quibbling over what percentage of the business is murder is ludicrous.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandra-Vargas/617581266 Chandra Vargas

        I mock you *because* you think abortion is murder. That is not a medically/scientifically sound position.

        • http://twitter.com/SicBorodin Sic Borodin

          Kindly (or unkindly – I don’t care which) put up the evidence that a human being, with unique DNA, becomes anything other than a living human being with unique human DNA, EVER, during the period between fertilization and birth.

          Shorter version: “science” is a foreign language to goofballs like you.

          • Mary Lee

            You’re making me laugh….the Abercrombie & Fitch thing, and then “or unkindly”….I can’t stop giggling!

          • http://twitter.com/SicBorodin Sic Borodin

            Well, good! I’m here all day (on Twitter). Don’t forget to tip your waitresses, etc. etc.

          • Scott Z

            I wrote the following in a different thread and am re-posting it here:

            “That’s what “human being” means: an organism who’s a member of the species Homo sapiens.” But, if all human beings are people, then the zygote I came from was a person before I began to exist. Furthermore, assuming it makes sense to refer to a person as ‘who’, then… Who was that zygote before it gave rise to me?

            Here’s the link to where I originally posted it: http://liveactionnews.org/what-are-some-assumptions-about-pro-lifers/

          • Julia

            You didn’t “come from” a zygote, you WERE a zygote, (then an embryo, then a fetus, then an infant, then a toddler, then a young child, than an adolescent, then (or will be) and adult.)

            Though the talk about zygotes is really irrelevant in the abortion discussion, because the preborn human being is past the zygote stage of development by the time most women know they are pregnant.

          • Scott Z

            My body used to be a zygote. However, I really don’t see how “I” could have existed before the brain that gave rise to me did.

            “Though the talk about zygotes is really irrelevant in the abortion discussion, because the preborn human being is past the zygote stage of development by the time most women know they are pregnant.”
            Yes, but brain development doesn’t even start until around 21 days after conception. Consequently, I may be willing to support making abortion illegal after 3 weeks after conception.

          • http://twitter.com/SicBorodin Sic Borodin

            “But, if all human beings are people, then the zygote I came from was a person before I began to exist.”

            That zygote was you, just as that one-month-old in the baby picture was you. They are not separate.

          • Scott Z

            My body used to be a zygote. However, I really don’t see how “I” could have existed before the brain that gave rise to me did. (copied from my similar reply to Julia)

          • http://twitter.com/SicBorodin Sic Borodin

            The fact that you don’t really see how (i.e., that you have no conception whatsoever of biology) has nothing to do with whether that zygote was, in fact, you. Hint: it was.

            In other words, “the brain that gave rise to me” is complete and utter nonsense. Even following your ridiculous logic, the zygote “gave rise” to your brain, goofball.

            In OTHER other words, it is the height of arrogance to assume that you somehow think yourself into being. (Sorry, René.) Can you add one inch to your stature? Yet your appearance and physical nature are inextricably a part of who you are. That’s a matter of your DNA, which you had from fertilization. Like it or not, you have been you since that moment.

          • Scott Z

            “(i.e., that you have no conception whatsoever of biology)”
            Is it acceptable to make things up about people? To lie, in other words.

            “Can you add one inch to your stature?”
            If I grew an inch, would I become a different person?

            “Yet your appearance and physical nature are inextricably a part of who you are.”
            If I lost an arm or leg, had my heart or liver replaced, or suffered severe burns across my face, would I become a different person?

          • http://twitter.com/SicBorodin Sic Borodin

            I wanna say “don’t be obtuse,” but making yourself un-obtuse is doubtless in the same realm as adding an inch to your stature.

            Point one: prove me wrong please, because I’m still seeing “I HAVE NO CONCEPTION OF BIOLOGY” in screaming neon letters.

            Point two (which went riiiight over your head): the output of your brain (however meager) is not the sum total of who you are, nor does it determine who you are. You were you before you had a brain; if someone had sucked you out of your mother’s womb before your brain developed, you’d be just as dead.

            Point three: It certainly would change the way you think about your life and other things, wouldn’t it? So based on your screwy logic, yes. You would be a completely different person, by virtue of your different thoughts, and if someone killed you after your amputation, he could argue that he hadn’t killed the you who existed pre-amputation.

            (By the way, I’ll call your asinine amputation argument and raise you a coma argument. Are you not the same person post-coma? Then I’ll raise you the genital mutilation/hormone poisoning/sex change argument. Are you not the same person post-sex change?)

            Now, I’m not actually making point three, because point three is stupid. The point is that you can’t just take your brain, lift it high above your body and declare that THIS is the sole criterion for personhood. You’ll have a whole lot of people arguing with you over what constitutes acceptable brain activity; Peter Singer says a child doesn’t start thinking sufficiently to save his life until he’s like two years old.

            So the only life-establishing criterion that makes sense is a unique biological human body, which incorporates even your silly brain. Pro-aborts avoid this commonsense criterion for life like the plague, because it makes it impossible for them to continue reaping a fortune from destroying children in the womb.

          • Scott Z

            Biology: the scientific study of life
            There you go. Now stop lying about me.

            “So based on your screwy logic, yes. You would be a completely different person, by virtue of your different thoughts”
            I don’t recall stating that a significant change in a person’s thoughts is always enough to make him or her a different person.

            “So the only life-establishing criterion that makes sense is a unique biological human body”
            I also don’t recall stating that a zygote isn’t alive.

            “The point is that you can’t just take your brain, lift it high above your body and declare that THIS is the sole criterion for personhood.”
            I’m going to assume you mean the above statement metaphorically. I’m certain you could be correct. However, I do not think you are. Make fun of me as much as you wish, just know it won’t help you convince me.

        • MO

          Have you been paying attention to the Kermit Gosnell case or have you been living under a rock? If you don’t call snipping a living human being’s spinal cord murder, what exactly would you call it?

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1042818758 Markie Marie Works

            Chandra understands perfectly welll that abortion IS murder,She just happens to be O.K. with that,,,,is all,:(

        • http://www.facebook.com/susie0418 Susie Carlo-Colon

          You are not a sound position!!! Abortion is murder darling!!!! You don’t have a clue, maybe you should visit PP so that you can get one.

        • http://www.facebook.com/beverly.harlton Beverly Harlton

          Murder is defined as deliberately taking the life of an innocent human being. A fetus is human and has consciously done nothing (innocent). Abortion is a “choice” (deliberate). From day one, that zygote is growing and developing, undergoing cellular respiration, metabolizing; it is alive.

      • cheeriosinmypocket

        In MAAFA21 on youtube, Hitler’s group got their ideas from our american eugenics society. A truly enlightening report that shows Margaret Sangor for the racist that she was.

    • Kristiburtonbrown

      The point of this article isn’t to get into the numbers…the point is that, when Planned Parenthood is in the business (however big or small) of killing “unwanted” babies, it’s pretty insane to claim that those you target for death will be thanking you. That aside, since you asked one of the numbers we care about – and that really should be discussed more often – is that 91% of pregnant women who walk into a Planned Parenthood clinic come out with an abortion. http://www.lifenews.com/2012/01/05/91-of-pregnant-women-planned-parenthood-sees-get-abortions/

    • http://twitter.com/PQPicklefeather Phineas Q.

      Jerry Sandusky did so much good during his life and he spent less than 3% of his time raping young boys. Why is he in prison? By your logic, he deserves our support.

      • Mary Lee

        BOOM!

        • http://twitter.com/Astraspider Ms. Spider

          All, Sandusky as a metaphor here is a non sequitur. Raping boys is illegal and reviled by all but the sociopathic. Abortion is legal and supported by roughly half of society. I realize you’d like to convince society that abortion is, indeed, a sociopathic practice, but that’s not the in the zeitgeist right now. Sorry.

          • http://twitter.com/SicBorodin Sic Borodin

            If people talked as honestly about abortion (“gently evacuate your uterus”?) as they do about raping little boys, things might be different

          • 7stephen3

            Spider
            you are quite the normative ethical relativist. I wonder if tomorrow raping
            little boys was made legal, would you have a problem with that, or would it be the,
            “well it’s legal therefore it’s right” mantra that you just threw up for
            abortion too. It seems as though those who fought to abolish slavery should
            have shut their mouth too, since it was legal.

          • Calvin Freiburger

            Again with the morality-by-popularity-contest crap? The ethical and intellectual bankruptcy of which has been explained to you again and again and again and again and again and again and again? Do you ever tire of making yourself look like an arrogant simpleton, Spider?

      • Basset_Hound

        After all, Sandusky spent the vast majority of his time coaching college athletes. We should be able to overlook his little pecadillos, right? (HEAVY sarcasm intended)

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002562434494 Joshua Barrett

    Are you really this stupid or just really this dishonest? Do you just want excuses to bitch and moan? Obviously the ad is advertising the other 99% of the business I know its hard, but if you use your brain for a moment you will realize they do a lot of things other than abortions. Equating everything they do to be abortions is quite dishonest. Your Savior Jesus Christ would be upset with your breaking of the 9th commandment

    • http://twitter.com/SicBorodin Sic Borodin

      You win the goofball award for this thread. “Ninety-nine percent” is a number for Occupy Wall Street idiocy – not even Ms. Spider will allege that abortion makes up 1% of Planned Parenthood’s “services.”

      And who said anything about “[e]quating everything they do to be abortions”? The bottom line is this: “Your baby will thank you, and also we kill babies.” I know PP and PP shills like you would love for people to remain ignorant of that latter fact, but it is what it is, and folks should know it. Too many don’t.

      (Kind of like when people complain about how eeeeevil corporations treat their workers – I bet you’d totally be excoriating those guys, too. “It’s just 1% of what they do! They make really great computers! You’re stupid!”

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandra-Vargas/617581266 Chandra Vargas

        Actually only 3% of PP services are abortions. You fucking idiot. “PP shills” Bwahahahaha!

        • Kristiburtonbrown

          Here’s one of the major problems, though. (Other than the fact you missed about the large amount of PP’s revenue that comes from abortions). 91% of pregnant women who go into Planned Parenthood get abortions. The pregnant women are the ones with babies, and I can guarantee that 91% of these babies are not thanking anyone for cruelly ending their lives. (http://www.lifenews.com/2012/01/05/91-of-pregnant-women-planned-parenthood-sees-get-abortions/)

          It’s not a secret that Planned Parenthood does not exist to provide pregnant women – and their babies, the ones who are supposedly doing the thanking – with prenatal care. One of my best friends actually went into a PP clinic when she was pregnant with her son and they told her that since she wanted to keep her baby, the most they could do was give a referral. They didn’t offer her any legitimate services that would have actually helped her keep or care for her baby.

    • http://www.facebook.com/gino.hernandez.75 Gino Hernandez

      hey jackass. planned parenthood already admits that most of their revenue comes from abortions, and that they perform ZERO mammograms. that it isnt even a service they offer. are you really this stupid or just dishonest?

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandra-Vargas/617581266 Chandra Vargas

      Stupid AND dishonest.

    • Angelina Steiner

      Your Savior Jesus Christ would be upset at you (Joshua) for supporting abortion, which is EVIL. But you are too dense to understand that.

  • Sarah

    Graham, you have not spoken a word about the life that was ended. You sir are wrong.

  • Mamabear

    Planned Parenthood does not do mammograms, they make referals for them. Most gynocological, prenatal, and pediatric care they give is available from private practitioners or other women’s clinics, often at better quality and lower cost. Even Medicaid patients can find other practitioners who take Medicaid. The only thing unique about PP is their abotion services.
    As to children being planned, we planned on two and it took 8 long years to be able to have the second. Blessing number three, who was just an unexpected 2 years later, just graduated from college with honors. Thank God, it never crossed our minds to do anything other than welcome and love our little surprise.

    • cheeriosinmypocket

      mammoshams (I read in a different article)

    • Katie

      Thet DON’T do mammograms, but Obama said they did, he wouldn’t lie, not about Planned Parenthood, not about Benghazi, not about being “transparent, etc.

      • http://www.facebook.com/anna.strakele Anna Strakele

        the one near me does.

        • Mary Lee

          Not one PP is licensed to do mammograms. Do you know what a mammogram is?

          • Larenzo1

            I believe she is simply a vapid liar.

          • ceecee

            and sadly, you’re an uninformed hypocrite who’s position is based on lies. it’s not her fault you don’t know what you’re talking about.

          • Larenzo1

            My position is I do not like seeing babies killed and I do not deny that and I am anything but a Hypocrite and I am very well informed. Informed enough to understand that Margaret Sanger wanted to use Planned Parent Hood and like organization for eugenics primarily to get rid of black babies. No I think it is you that is the ignorant lemming and that is all you will ever be. I have scraped better than you off my shoe.

          • guest

            yes. i certainly do.

  • Mary Lee

    Ah, the whole “Planned Parenthood does other things besides abortion” argument is old, and really very flimsy. So what? First, if abortion is not a bad thing, then why–AGAIN, I ASK–do people who support it also try to distance themselves from it? Why make qualifying statements? What IS that? If abortion is a GOOD thing, then all those who are pro-“choice” should say, “Hell yeah, they do abortions!” ….So, why the excuses? Let’s take cosmetic surgery, for example. I think it’s stupid, but I do think it’s a person’s right to choose it. I have little respect for cosmetic surgeons (though I have more respect for them than for abortionists, for which I have no respect at all), but I never hear anyone going, “But Dr. Jones doesn’t just do nose jobs, he also does BRAIN SURGERY!” “Dr. Smith also does DERMATOLOGY!” Because even if cosmetic surgery is vain and silly (for the most part, unless you are a burn victim or have a cleft palate, or something), it doesn’t need to really be defended, not in an ethical sense.

    The other thing is, Planned Parenthood’s main source of income is through abortions. They performed almost 400,000 abortions last year alone. That is an incredible amount of abortions, for something that is supposed to be “rare.” (Oh, wait, you guys don’t say that anymore….Gotcha. ….So it SHOULDN’T be “rare,” but you still have to distance yourself from it and defend this disgusting organization.)

    Let’s say I run an auto shop…..I do oil changes, brakes, etc. I also do transmission repair, catalytic converters, injection pumps, and cylinder replacement. (I am a huge fan of Car Talk, if you can’t tell.)….Oil changes are about $30 bucks a pop. Brake pad installation is about $200. Transmission assembly costs at least $3,500. Let’s say in a week, I do 15 oil changes, 5 brake pad installations, and only two transmission assemblies. I’ve made $450 from oil changes. I’ve made $1,000 from brake pad installation. I’ve made **$7,000** from transmission assemblies. So I’ve made $8,450 that week, but only $1,450 came from my OTHER services. What is the source of most of my income?

    And here’s another question for you….the “it’s only 3% of services” argument….how does that help you? So only 3% of the services is dismembering and incinerating little babies with hearts and brains and legs and arms? That’s it? Just 3%? What if I said, “Well, this restaurant only poisons 3% of its patrons” or “This doctor only kills 3% of his patients” or “This daycare center only abuses 3% of the children in their care.” How in the world does that make it better?

    • Mary Lee

      *For WHOM, not “for which”…..I need more coffee…..

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandra-Vargas/617581266 Chandra Vargas

        You need brains, not coffee.

        • http://twitter.com/SicBorodin Sic Borodin

          Devastating retort. Just devastating.

          • Mary Lee

            Right? I’m so sad, I’m going to cry into my three diplomas.

          • http://www.facebook.com/jevelerino Erin Owens

            I am so loving your replies to this Mary Lee LOL! Too funny!

        • Mary Lee

          You know, Chandra, you might want to actually go to college or something. Your argumentative skills are really lacking. Seeing as I have two post-graduate degrees (and was given three Fellowships to obtain them), I’m pretty sure I have brains. I think you need some ice cream and a nap.

        • Jennifer Middleton

          Chandra, what did Mary Lee say that didn’t make any sense? You have no argument here so you go straight to name calling. You must have your copy of the liberal playbook handy. Next, you can tell us we’re all racists too.

        • Basset_Hound

          Ah yes…another self-appointed grammar cop who substitutes aspersions on another’s intelligence for actual, cogent arguments.

          • Cynthia16

            Well look at your profile pic and profile name…I’d MUCH RATHER be a self-appointed grammar cop than a self-appointed DOG.

          • Mary Lee

            Why? You have a problem with dogs? Faithful, funny, loyal dogs? Dogs are the best. Especially Basset hounds! They’re so cute.

          • Basset_Hound

            THANK YOU for your kind words!!!!!

            Bassets (until they get old) are the most mellow, laid back totally “chill” pets you could ever hope for.

          • Mary Lee

            I see from your other comment that you must be pro-life. BH is also pro-life. Please, we have to stop making assumptions about those on our own team. (BH was talking to Chandra, not me.)

          • Basset_Hound

            I kept the name, but changed the profile pic for a few days to show solidarity with my home state. So now I’m a Dog In Name Only.

          • Guest

            That’s IT!!! Now, you don’t even get the ice cream…. BTW, the argument is un-winnable from a pro-choice standpoint, but if that honestly hurts your self-centered,uncaring feelings THEN…… You can go ahead and correct my grammah…

          • http://www.facebook.com/anna.strakele Anna Strakele

            it is winnable from the pro choice standpoint. especially when the government is finally held responsible for the deaths of women from being denied life saving abortions.

          • Calvin Freiburger

            Women being denied “life saving” abortions? Name one.

          • http://www.facebook.com/anna.strakele Anna Strakele

            ok. 1. Savita Halappanavar. 2. Beatriz from El Salvador is dyING. 3. My teacher’s daughter.

          • http://www.facebook.com/anna.strakele Anna Strakele

            oh! 7 more!

            1. Clara Bell Duvall. 2. Ruth Friedl. 3. Pauline Shirley. 4. Vivian Campbell. 5. Geraldine Santoro. 6. Rosie Jiminez. 7. Becky Bell.

          • Mary Lee

            You know the Becky Bell story is false, right? Many doctors, including Dr. John Pless, have said there is no evidence she even had an illegal abortion. Clara Bell Duvall died from a self-induced abortion. (I’m not sure how this fits in to your category….), same with Ruth Friedl….see, when women die from self-induced abortions, that doesn’t prove it needs to be legal. It proves that we need to figure out why they felt the need to abort. We need to eliminate the crisis, not the pregnancy. I could go on here, but I have to go pick up my twelve-year-old “choice” from her friends house.

            One suggestion: Put down the women’s magazines, they’re pure poison.

          • Larenzo1

            I will probably be attacked for my reply to your comment. But I say Amen.

          • guestttt

            the reason we need legal abortion is to make the procedure safer. boy, for someone who claims to care about life, and who thinks that a zygote=fetus=baby=child=adult, you certainly don’t care about the “oversized zygotes” dying because of a desperate choice. a safe legal abortion could’ve saved their lives. why is life only valuable to you until its disconnected from the umbilical cord? that’s really hateful and hypocritical of you.

            there are several common reasons why women abort. can’t afford to give birth, can’t afford to raise a child, can’t physically carry because of an internal problem, not emotionally ready, don’t want to be pregnant or give birth, all that jazz. reasons that are between a woman and her doctor, and not of your or any other member of the public’s concern. the crisis is that they are pregnant. ever wonder why there are “crisis pregnancy centers”? its because pregnancy, for many women, is a crisis. good for you, that you wanted to have a kid and had the money and home situation and ability to raise a kid. i’m honestly really happy for you and the fact that you’re happy to have her, and i hope that she grows up healthy and wonderful and sweet. but your choice to reproduce doesn’t make you God and give you the power over anyone else’s life or ability to know anyone else’s situation or feel what they are feeling or go through what they are going through because if you witnessed and experienced their lives through their eyes, you might feel very different. you really should just worry about yourself and your family. you’ll lose less sleep and be less stressed.

          • Calvin Freiburger

            Thanks to commenter extraordinaire Mary for taking on the bulk of this for me :)

            Also, I suggest you peruse Live Action’s archives, because we’ve written a lot about the Savita case, and some about Beatriz. The facts of the former are highly disputed, and in both cases, you may have noticed they occurred in places that may collectively be considered “not America.” Meaning that even if you were right about them, they’d still have nothing to do with American laws or the American pro-life movement.

            So let’s finish this with the real question: can you name a single law, either currently on the books or proposed by pro-lifers, that would forbid women from receiving life-saving treatment if that treatment would result in their baby’s death?

          • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

            http://www.salon.com/2011/05/26/abortion_saved_my_life/singleton/

            Mikki Kendall would have died without an abortion. Thanks to conscience laws, a doctor literally watched her bleed almost to death, in her words, ” [b]ecause he didn’t do abortions. Ever.” It took a nurse who broke the hospital’s policy and possibly patient privacy laws to call in a doctor willing to perform a life-saving abortion.

            I know women who are on teratogenic anti-depressants. They need access to abortions so they don’t become suicidal during pregnancy- suicide is life-threatening, after all.

            North Dakota just passed a law that bans abortions past 12 weeks for any reason. Kansas is looking to pass (if it hasn’t already) a fetal personhood bill that would ban abortions for any reason from the moment of conception. Sen. Rand Paul has introduced fetal personhood bills in the US Senate that would also ban abortions for any reason from the moment of conception. All those laws forbid women from receiving life-saving treatment if that treatment would result in their baby’s death.

          • Calvin Freiburger

            You’re citing Mikki Kendall? Oops: http://www.jillstanek.com/2011/06/salon-writer-showed-pro-abortion-recall-bias/

            I note that you’re also citing Libby Barnes, who this website has caught distorting many such facts, including outright lying. Admittedly, I don’t have time at the moment to fact-check all your claims, so for now the following points will have to suffice:

            First, you’re inferring that the pro-life laws you cite would deny women life-saving treatment, but you haven’t quoted language that demonstrates it’s true.

            Second, so what if no Planned Parenthoods are around; ordinary hospitals don’t know how to do any of the procedures involved in ending a life-threatening pregnancy?

            Third, nobody’s claiming individual doctors will never make bad or dangerous decisions; I suggest you look up the phrase “hard cases make bad law.”

            Fourth, name me one reasonably-influential or respected pro-life individual or organization which calls for banning life-of-the-mother terminations.

          • guest

            coalition for life. at least the one in my area.

          • calcal

            wow. that’s ironic.

          • Calvin Freiburger

            Care to back that up with hard evidence? Examples and sources?

          • guesttt

            the one that just passed in texas. no abortions after 20 weeks.

          • Calvin Freiburger

            Unsurprisingly, you don’t know what you’re talking about. Here’s the law: http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlodocs/832/billtext/pdf/SB00001I.pdf#navpanes=0

            It specifically says, “this Act does not apply to abortions that are necessary to avert the death or substantial and irreversible physical impairment of a major bodily function of the pregnant woman or abortions that are performed on unborn children with severe fetal abnormalities.”

          • http://www.facebook.com/anna.strakele Anna Strakele

            so that’s 10 people.

          • Larenzo1

            Life saving abortions! I do not believe anyone would be denied a life saving abortion at any hospital and those are very few. You sound like you are Just another Kermit Gosnell fan club member.

          • guest

            ummm, no. i am no fan of kermit gosnell. he was not reasonable or safe in his procedures. he was racist and had no health or safety standards.

          • Mary Lee

            There is no such thing as a “life saving abortion.” A “LIFESTYLE saving abortion” however…..those are common.

    • ruthsdaughter

      Mary Lee! Shhh, we don’t say “abortion” anymore!! Ever since Gosnell showed everybody there were actual BABIES in there, we now say, “safe medical care for women”. Be sure to vote for politicians who are in favor of safe medical care for women!! (Maybe we can shorten it to SMCFW?)

      • http://www.facebook.com/anna.strakele Anna Strakele

        he killed born babies. he performed late term abortions, meaning the pregnancies were viable. that is different.

        • Mary Lee

          How is it different? And how is it possible to be so completely ignorant? Wow, I am just floored by your posts. If this weren’t such a serious subject, I would be laughing my arse off.

          • guest

            it is different!!! those babies could feel and think. they had the potential to live, unlike over 90% of aborted fetuses. how is it cruel to remove a fetus that doesn’t have the ability to feel, think, or realize they exist, a fetus that doesn’t have friends, plans, aspirations, careers, or hobbies, a fetus that doesn’t have the ability to survive outside the womb, even if the mom had gone into premature labor in the middle of nowhere with no hospital? you aren’t taking anything away from it. there’s nothing for it to miss. that is VERY different from slicing the necks of babies who could feel the pain and comprehend the torture and is quite aware that they are experiencing what is going on.

            i think that if someone is going to go through the trouble of delivering a viable baby, then it shouldn’t be killed. and if the pregnancy is viable, then if the woman refuses to carry anymore, then it should be delivered and put on support systems at the hospital.

            abortions before the fetus can really function or feel or think, like in the first trimester, cannot be even slightly equally compared to the murder of a born baby, child, teen, or adult. even if killed painlessly in their sleep. they still had things and people they will miss and people who will miss them and truly be consciously affected by their passing. but the same way you don’t know how or if you’re being affected by the child who just died in Russia or Maine, you won’t know how or even if you’ll be affected by a woman you don’t know getting an abortion. the same way you won’t know how or even if you’ll be affected by the woman who miscarried 5 minutes ago, or the woman who just had her dead fetus sucked out of her, you won’t know how or even if you’ll be affected by a woman you don’t know getting an abortion. so saying that the future baby “could’ve cured cancer” or “brought world peace” or some foundation-less crap like that are completely valueless statements.

        • ruthsdaughter

          how so? A viable baby is the same person he was the week before, only with stronger lungs. Since viability occurs somewhere between weeks 22 and 24, and the legal limit in PA is 24, we can assume that many babies lawfully killed in utero in PA are viable.

          • guest

            the doctors are more than capable of determining whether the fetus is viable or not. i wouldn’t assume such things.

    • http://www.facebook.com/jevelerino Erin Owens

      For the plastic surgery part of that story, I’m glad that you said there are some valid reasons. I agree that it’s vain and silly for a person that has absolutely nothing wrong with their appearance to inject their lips with botulism or have their nose done, but some people really do need it. I had to have it once because I had been attacked by a dog as a child and the scar (at the corner of my mouth) was not growing with the rest of my face. They had to fix it so my mouth wouldn’t be pulled open permanently.

      Now that that’s out of the way, hear hear to the rest of that comment! Pro-choicers’ defense of abortion by saying Planned Infanticide does other things is kind of like cannibals saying, “but I eat vegetables too!”

      • Mary Lee

        Thank you! Yes, there is a need for some to have cosmetic surgery (I knew a girl who was horribly burned in a fire and needed cosmetic surgery). But when it’s done to “refine” an already fine face, it seems rather shallow. But then again, it is his or her body and face in this scenario, so there isn’t anything ethically wrong with it.

        Bravo to the cannibal comment!!!

      • http://www.facebook.com/anna.strakele Anna Strakele

        we say it because yall are trying to shut down EVERY planned parenthood, whether they do abortions or not. very few of the locations do abortions. how do you justify taking funding away from all the sites that don’t? you’re not saving any potential children. you’re only hurting women and men who depend on Planned Parenthood for their basic healthcare.

        • Mary Lee

          Basic healthcare? ….You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

        • Basset_Hound

          It is a goal in Texas for EVERY one of their locations to do abortions.

        • Minnie96

          Do tell… Exactly what “health care” are you referring to that PP provides? They don’t do mammograms, they don’t do Pap smears… They DO however hand out useless birth control pills that can be provided by ANY doctor’s office – oh yeah, and women can also get mammograms, Pap smears, STD testing and any other real healthcare they could possibly need. PP’s agenda is to make $$$$ off of the slaughtering innocent babies and hurting women. Wake up!

          • guest

            false–they do do mammograms and pap smears and STD tests and physicals for men women and children.

            false–the cannot get those things at a hospital if they can’t afford it. if you would like to lend them a couple thousand dollars to get it done, please do.

            false–PP’s agenda is providing truthful information about physical health and family planning to men and women who can’t afford to go to a hospital. Less than half the abortions occur at PP. this belief that all they care about is abortions is the oldest, most disproven theory in the book.

            did you know that real, big, state and federal funded hospitals do abortions too? the state funded hospital 5 minutes from me does. yet no one is trying to get major hospitals defunded and shut down.

        • Kristiburtonbrown

          I don’t think it’s “very few” that do abortions. Abortions are quite
          commonly done at Planned Parenthoods. Also, women need to realize that
          Planned Parenthood is not their last or only hope. Plenty of county
          health offices, for instance, provide basic healthcare for men, women,
          and children – without doing abortions.

          • guest

            tell that to the women who do not live anywhere near one of those places, the ones who can’t afford to travel 10 or 20 miles to the next closest one after the PP near them got shut down?

            awesome thing about Texas Women’s Health (i’m using “awesome” very sarcastically here), the program that REPLACED PP, is that not only do men not benefit from it anymore, but neither do children or women over 45. good one, TX. you just denied affordable healthcare to over 60% of your residents in one swift blow. awesome.

            and did you know that over 30 family planning clinics in texas got shut down, even though they didn’t do abortions?

            how about you try being an impoverished women who can’t travel far depending on a low-income clinic before you just assume that all these women certainly have a car or enough money to ride a train/bus/taxi all the way to the next one.

      • Faithkuz

        The Planned Infanticide is apt–For an overview of PP’s support of infanticide, as well as recent Gosnellesque horrors AT PLANNED PARENTHOOD in Deleware, Chicago, and Colorado, see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R98oJ47lS2I&list=PLFAD9131EC38E3A22&index=1

  • Elda P

    Our population IS just as insane! Have you ever read the commentaries below a article about abortion? It really blows my mind to know what people will accept as truth. It hurts my heart to know my children will have to live amongst all of these heartless and soulless individuals

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1042818758 Markie Marie Works

      Popuation problem??? The Economy is in the toilet because there are about 55 million people not here to contribute to it,because THEY WERE MURDERED!! Populaton problem is a myth! The Abortion Genocide is a REALITY!

      • Mary Lee

        I don’t think Elda said there was a population problem, and it seems she is pro-life. I think she meant our world is insane, and she is amazed that people accept PP’s lies as truth. If I’m not mistaken, Elda is on our team.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1042818758 Markie Marie Works

          Yes sorry ! I Get it :-)

          • Mary Lee

            We’ve all done it! I read it a few times just to make sure.

          • Elda P

            Totally pro-life! I was commenting to the last sentence of the article.
            Sorry!!!

    • Angelina Steiner

      Please pray to God about this. I know how you feel. I’m worry too.

  • http://www.facebook.com/joy.mcnorton Joy McNorton

    so the thinking is that the planned child that you keep one day will say thanks mom for killing my sister and not me?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1402550029 Christine Peters

    Chandra Vargas…what planet did you just step off of, and how many abortions have you had, so you feel the need to keep trying to convince yourself abortion doesn’t kill. PP doesn’t kill babies? If, whatever is in a woman’s womb is not living, why the need for an abortionist?

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1042818758 Markie Marie Works

      Oh , don’t you evil pro-lifers try and use LOGIC on poor Chandra!!! (Sarcasm on! )

  • http://www.facebook.com/michael.petek.9 Michael Petek

    I suppose this makes the International Planned Parenthood Federation an institution for the criminally insane.

  • Mecs

    This is terrifying… What I can’t wrap my mind around is how people believe it is not a human life being killed inside the womb. What else could it be? An alien from mars? Did they not pay attention in science class or even go to school? And to justify killing lives to keep population down..oh man, it is scary to see how the devil works in deceiving even the best of us. We have to keep informing people that life matters and we really need to reach out and be there for women who feel like their only choice is abortion. Sometimes women don’t know what else to do and don’t know who to turn to. I always post women centers that offer free pregnancy tests, help, etc. on my facebook page in hopes people will see it and know someone who might need it. Also, encourage people to adopt babies! There is no question that a baby is a life from conception until death. But sadly women will do anything when they are faced with pressure and are desperate. One last thing, NO abortion is safe. Not in a medical setting, nor in the bathroom at your house. Someone ALWAYS ends up hurt and killed. I pray PP gives up.

  • http://www.facebook.com/angelanine Angela Petronelli

    I don’t very much planned parenthood only means abortion. It also means birth control used properly so you become pregnant when you plan the pregnancy. I believe the baby is one that was planned ahead of time was given life with a good foundation

    I doubt the ad meant abort that baby.

    • Mary Lee

      See: All the comments in this thread. The biggest percentage of Planned Parenthood’s income is from abortions. (This is not an opinion, this is a documented fact.)

      They use manipulative, touchy-feely language to keep people from seeing what they are really about. Frankly, this campaign is pure hypocrisy.

      • Liz

        Quick favor, Mary Lee. Since this seems to be a large source of debate in this entire thread. Can you show/give me the documented fact of what percentage of PP’s income comes from abortions? Not trying to incite anything here, just wondering what the actual number is and where it can be found.

        If we can help each other understand the honest facts, maybe we can help this thread be a more welcoming discussion about the intent of the PP Ad. That is what the article was about, right?

        • Mary Lee

          Their annual reports are available on their site—I keep trying to post some links here, but it won’t go through. ARGH.

          We can see, however, in 2010, women receiving abortions were actually 10% of their services for that year. Annual exams are about $87. The Abortion Pill is $365. Abortions run from $400-965. I break down the economics in my comment about the auto shop.

          Why can’t I post links? Is it my silly ChromeBook? Bleah.

          I have ZERO problem with other services. Most pro-lifers don’t. If this were a place for annual exams, and colposcopies, then great. But they make a lot of money from abortions; they also receive a buttload of government funding.

          • Basset_Hound

            Is that why you can’t set up anything with Discus? I’d love to be able to follow your posts.

        • Basset_Hound

          Here’s a PDF from the Susan B. Anthony List, a PAC for electing pro-life candidates. The links are directly to items in PP’s annual reports…

          http://www.sba-list.org/sites/default/files/content/shared/Chiaroscuro_PP_Analysis_March_2011.pdf

    • Mecs

      The ad meant everything that PP provides.

      • MrApple

        Death to the non-born and obvious hypocrisy?

        • Mecs

          death to all the unborn…sadly, yes. I don’t know how America allows this to happen as if it was plenty normal.

          • Basset_Hound

            This is only the beginning. The more we become desensitized to offering death to the unborn, the more desensitized we will be into goading a generation of baby boomers into assisted suicide.

          • Angelina Steiner

            You are right, we are being set up.
            It happens in stages.

          • MrApple

            The same Liberal thinking that allows that abortion is acceptable also cries out when 20 children are gunned down by some nut-job. It is weird that that particular crowd who “demands a plan” and wants to end the violent culture in America has no problem tearing a human being from his/her mother and then tossing him/her away like bad leftovers.

          • Basset_Hound

            Or they’ll cry for baby seals and unhatched baby eagles but baby humans. ..they’re expendable.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ferrarimedic Kim Ferrari

    Yes. What a terrible, terrible world it would be if every child were wanted and planned for.

    • http://twitter.com/SicBorodin Sic Borodin

      …And we’ll keep on killin’ ‘em ’til we get there. Why do pro-aborts so stalwartly refuse to talk about that last part?

    • Mary Lee

      There is no such thing as an “unwanted” child. But let’s just go with that, shall we? So, if a child is not “planned for,” then a woman can kill him or her? That’s justice? That’s fair?

      Even pro-lifers agree that people need to be responsible. But killing your baby isn’t responsible at all. It’s cowardly, selfish, and cruel.

      But I do have a friend who was “unwanted.” Should I tell him that he should be dead? I have known a few people who were abused as children, should I tell them they, too, should be dead, even though now they have beautiful lives and children of their own? Should I tell my friends with babies who have DS that it would have been better if their baby was dead, because he’s not perfect? Who are you to say who is wanted? And what is this “planned” business? We can’t plan our lives. We can try, but it can’t actually be done. We are not entitled to the life we want and how we want it. We do not have the right to kill our own children to live as we like.

      My daughter….she is now a tween. She was “unplanned.” I experienced a crisis pregnancy. She was not what I planned, she was not what I saw for my future. She was conceived at a time when I was at a pivotal moment in my career. Would I have been wealthier and more famous if I had killed her? Yes, I probably would have. But I would not have a daughter who makes me laugh every day, who is a brilliant artist, who hums Jobim while she draws.

      I have used this scenario before, but I’d like you to really think about it. She is twelve now. She hates Justin Bieber, she loves Good Luck, Charlie, and she has golden almond-colored curls. Can I kill her now? Of course not. Let’s rewind five years, when she was seven, and she was clearly intelligent, but lacking the sophistication she has now. Could I kill her then? Of course not. Let’s rewind five more years, when she was a toddler. She could not do math. She used to call her favorite kitty sweater her “mrow mrow shirt” and pronounced “Corduroy” as “COHDOY”….could I kill her then? No, of course not. What about when she was 30 weeks in my womb, and the ultrasound took a picture of her beautiful, sleeping face? She used to moved around and get the hiccups. Could I kill her then? No, of course not. What about when she was 19 weeks, and the doctor’s couldn’t actually confirm she was a girl for certain because she had her legs crossed, kicking her little foot like a Southern belle on a porch swing? Could I kill her then? No, of course not. What about the very first time I saw her, at 8 weeks, when her heart flickered like a light, on the ultrasound, and whooshed and whooshed and whooshed? Could I kill her then? When could I kill her? NEVER. She was always her, with her little body, her heart, her brain, her limbs, she was always herself.

      We have no right to say what child is “wanted.” No child is disposable. The idea of ripping babies apart and throwing them into the trash should make us sick. Instead, it is glorified. How could this ever be all right? How does that not seem backward to you?

    • Basset_Hound

      Wow. Let’s say a woman wants to get pregnant, thinking she will have an adorable little goo-goo doll who will give her unconditional love. Once she gives birth, she has a colicky baby who screams constantly. Does she get to kill the child because she discovers the reality of being a parent doesn’t match her expectations?

      Suppose a family suffers an economic setback because one or both parents lose their jobs? Do they get to offset the hardship by killing one (or maybe all) of their children?

    • Calvin Freiburger

      I notice your profile pic is the gay-marriage “equality” symbol. What a fraud. If you want to keep the legal power for mothers to have their own children killed, you don’t really believe in human equality.

    • Julia

      You mean – any unwanted child dead.

  • blair miller

    So by there logic, kill your child, they’ll be grateful , they love it when you rip them part, sufficate them with poison. They love it when there still alive struggling to live. To be ignored medical attention and die a grusome long painful death.Then thrown away like trash , or be flush away.

  • http://twitter.com/human_for_life J D

    Good article, but I think it’s actually pretty easy to imagine what the creator of the ad was after:

    “Thank you for killing me to make sure my sibling will have a “better quality of living”, or so that I won’t have to live out the remainder of my life with all its joys, sufferings, successes, failures, and tribulations?” Or perhaps: “thank you for killing my sister or brother so that I might have a ‘better quality of living’?”

    Well, perhaps the creator of the ad wouldn’t phrase it that way… But either way you look at it, asinine and gravely unethical/immoral reasoning. Not to mention, children from families with more kids tend to be happier and find more meaning and joy in life outside of themselves (even if they have to forgo being pampered by the parents), which renders “better quality of life” as a subjective and worthless assertion.

    p.s. The aborted baby doesn’t return as a reincarnation in the next child. They are two separate individuals and distinct human beings. This is a common lie propagated by Planned Parenthood to reassure the mother who is partaking in an abortion of her child.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jane.hartman.716 Jane Hartman

    Your baby will thank you – the one who is alive? Will that child ever ask about the siblings that were murdered through choice? What happens when a person realizes that they could have had a brother or a sister who didn’t get a chance to live because of mom’s choice and PP’s easy access?

  • Basset_Hound

    Fast forward 20 years from now…and an ad campaign from the friendly neighborhood Termination Clinic….

    Your baby will thank you for euthanizing Grandma…..what a drag it is growing old….

    • Angelina Steiner

      Well,
      It will soon be here, that’s how the culture of death operates.

  • Give me a Frigging Break

    Thanks for aborting me mom! with love, your fetus from purgatory.

  • Ex Umbra In Sol

    Yes America, we all need to take our #criticalthinking skills and check them at life’s door never to be relied upon. Planned Parenthood – @PPFAQ – doesn’t expect anyone to think through this? This advertisement screams out the question, “What exactly will your baby thank you for?” Aborting them? I can’t even justify this question by writing down the obvious answer it clearly has.

    If the term “your baby” is relating to the one being aborted, I cannot think of a more asinine and obtuse thing to say. Such a clear demonstration of abject lack of reason would bewilder even the dullest of sensibilities.

    Or is there another message here?

    PP is obviously on the [unfounded] population control bandwagon. Thus, I believe this message has another, yet equally sinister angle they are communicating.

    I think PP cleverly left out the rest of the implied slogan, which would read: “Your baby will thank you…for not having another sibling.” Which is another complete lie of course.

    I have met many, many people in my lifetime who have been an only child growing up. When the subject of family comes around, the response is invariably that they wish they would have had siblings growing up – REGARDLESS of whether that meant living with less new clothes, less trips to Europe, less toys for themselves, or even less food on the table, as there is no substitute for a relationship with a sibling. I’m sure most, if not everyone reading this have had similar experiences.

  • Lenny

    Their logic makes sense to them. You were chosen if we did not want you you would be dead. The baby is thankful he was not aborted and is part of a family that wants him or her. But what happens if the baby is not thankful?
    Parents should be thankful for God’s blessings. Abortion selfish, ungrateful, unbelief. If our baby is not grateful;
    so? I mean what do you expect from a baby? They make themselves God and demand thankfulness from their babies.

  • Lenny

    Lila Rose for president

  • DMD

    Love the cannibal comment. I will use that again. I’m sure the babies that visited the Gosnell house of horrors were also thankful.

  • Basset_Hound

    Your baby will thank you for aborting his siblings. That way he won’t have to share his stuff with anybody. Then when you’re old, and you lose the ability to live independently in your own home, he’ll turn around and take you to the Euthanasia Clinic. Karma’s a bitch, ain’t it.

    • Angelina Steiner

      Basset,
      You’re so funny!

  • Margot

    Ugh. Insanity is right. It’s their whole idea of “The baby is better off dead instead of being unwanted,disabled, in poverty” etc In all those cases I’d much rather be alive then be killed by being sucked into a tube and torn up. Just disgusting.

  • http://www.facebook.com/dawn.e.worswick Dawn E. Worswick

    Women DO have a choice to close you damn legs and use BC!!!!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/anna.strakele Anna Strakele

    definitely not trying to say what you crazies think. its saying that the baby the mom gives birth to will thank her for getting the prenatal healthcare PP gives. i thought it was obvious. but it was obviously lost on pro lifers. i guess that’s not that hard to understand though…you guys search for every possible way to hate on this business that does 97% basic healthcare and 3% business even related to abortion. seriously guys. learn your facts and STOP spewing your hellacious BULLSHIT.

    • Mary Lee

      Oh, bless your heart. Time to go back to the playground. I take back my comment about biology and logic and philosophy. You might want to go back to kindergarten. Just be advised: Some kindergartner have a better grasp on biology and logic than you have. You might learn something from them.

      • blair miller

        Um mary lee what kind of heath care is ann talking about. Because last time I check they don’t give women checks up. They don’t offer mamograms, they don’t offer really any thing except abortion procedures

        • Mary Lee

          Uh, birth control! And the occasional pap smear. Their mission is NOT female gynecological health, it is birth control and abortions. They are not “women’s health centers.” Such a joke. But we should give Anna a break, since she’s 12. (At least emotionally.)

          • Basset_Hound

            I think you’re being extremely generous. The emotional 12 year olds are the ones who strut and preen about what bad girls they are. They can say “vagina” and have sex with anything that moves. Anna is more like a toddler…or should I say the result of a culture that builds “self-esteem” rather than character…..

          • blair miller

            Then why do people consider it health care? I’m sixteen and I have more sence than that

  • Lindsey Gustad

    I assume they’re talking about the future baby, born under better circumstances, that will be thankful to the mother for not having the earlier children because that would have ruined their lives? That’s really the only way that makes sense. I’m sure they aren’t talking about the baby being aborted thanking the mother, since they wouldn’t refer to that as a baby. Essentially the ad is saying “Your future baby will thank you for getting rid of the “blob of tissue” that would otherwise ruin your life. Someday soon you will be in better circumstances and we be able to have a perfectly normal family.” It’s actually kindof a brilliant ad campaign, ignoring the fact that I don’t know how women will react to being shown a living baby as they walk in the door. That might not have the impact they think it will.

  • Basset_Hound

    Marvin the Robot from Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy had a very apropos comment about PP’s “responsible sex ed class”…..

    “I’ve seen it. It’s roooobish”…..

  • Basset_Hound

    PRAY FOR OKLAHOMA!!!!!

    Your brothers and sisters are hurting….

  • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

    Everyone here is an organ donor, right?

    You all support mandatory, legally obligated organ donation, right? For you, for your kids, for your spouses, for your siblings, for your parents- everyone. I mean, it’s just a minor inconvenience to have major abdominal surgery. It’s saving a life! You only need one kidney, one lung. Your liver regrows- you can even donate it multiple times! Oh, but this surgery, you have to pay for it. Clearly, cost should be no object when it comes to saving lives.

    What? You have work, you say? You can’t afford the cost of the surgery? You have other obligations to family? You’re sick and the surgery and/or loss of the organ might be life-threatening? Too bad, so sad, it’s all about saving lives. Your convenience and lifestyle and bodily integrity are much less important than that.

    • Mary Lee

      Do you pro-aborts know ANYTHING about biology? Anything? What an incoherent argument. Slogans, excuses, and temper tantrums. That is all you have. It’s not working.

      • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

        If I don’t have to donate my liver to keep someone alive, why do I have to donate my uterus to keep someone alive? I literally swapped in the words “organ donation” and “surgery” for “abortion” and used the words the pro-life movement uses to describe abortions and the people who get them. In other words, I used your argument and showed you how terrible it truly is.

        I believe it is you who is full of “slogans, excuses, and temper tantrums”. After all, I see not one word of actual rebuttal to my argument, merely a poisoning the well attempt.

        • Kristiburtonbrown

          If you made the person who needs a liver sick, you probably should donate your own liver. However, if you did nothing to contribute to their illness, it’s not your responsibility to sacrifice for them. Is it nice? Is it courageous? Yeah, but you are not their only hope for survival and you are not responsible for their life. Totally different scenario when we’re talking about a child you helped to create… (Just for one argument – there’s plenty more.) Here are a bunch of logical arguments, if you’re interested: http://www.columbia.edu/cu/augustine/arch/20qqabor.html.

          • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

            But what if you are their only hope? Matches for organ donations are pretty rare. Why are you responsible for some people but not others? Why are men, old people, and children exempt from this requirement to give up their bodily autonomy for the life of others, but not fertile women? Why IS a woman responsible for the child she may have helped create (remember, rape happens. Birth control failures happen. Consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy).

            How is a woman responsible for the person living in her body, but not the one outside, when the end result is death either way? What makes abortion uniquely worse than not donating organs? We don’t even force dead people to donate organs to living people, that’s how highly we value bodily autonomy in every situation but this one. Why are pregnant women less important, less human, than cadavers?

          • http://twitter.com/SicBorodin Sic Borodin

            But what if you DO have a completely unlikely and extreme scenario? What if I take that scenario and match it up with the 98% of abortions that are elective? Then my argument totally makes sense, right?

            Face it, kiddo: the “pregnancy as organ donation” analogy is bankrupt. It’s been thrown out infinite times.

          • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

            It keeps getting used because it’s true. Fetuses don’t grow themselves. They literally grow out of the blood, tissue, nutrients, and energy of the mother inside her uterus. How is that not organ donation?

            Furthermore, I don’t understand your argument. I argue that we should not force people to donate organs, even in the rare circumstance where it is another’s only chance at life, because bodily autonomy is more important than another’s life. I also argue that abortions must remain legal, because bodily autonomy is more important than another’s life. I am consistent in my argument.

            You argue that abortions must become illegal, because fetuses have a right to life. You then argue that not all fetuses have a right to life, only the ones who get here through not-rape. You also argue that we should not force organ donations, because …? Clearly, life doesn’t outweigh bodily autonomy all the time for you. While I’m the last person to argue that one must always be consistent, your position seems very incoherent overall. The only way it makes sense is if you feel the need to punish women who have sex with unwanted pregnancies and children, but everyone else still has bodily autonomy that must be respected.

    • http://twitter.com/SicBorodin Sic Borodin

      Yet again, your misbegotten estimation of other people’s lifestyles somehow makes it okay to slaughter children. You pro-aborts could learn a lot about the virtue of silence if you’d just append “…and therefore, it’s okay to slaughter children” to the end of your every asinine argument.

      • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

        See my response to Mary Lee. Why is it acceptable to force me to donate a uterus, but not acceptable to force you to donate a liver?

        Also, an actual rebuttal with logical argumentation and possibly even evidence would be appreciated. This asinine pulling at emotions just doesn’t do it for me, and it looks terrible for your side. It makes it seem like your only arguments is “BUT THE BAYBIEEZZZZZ!!!1!” without looking at all the ramifications of your arguments for other people’s bodily autonomy and integrity, lives, and health. I’m willing to see what you’ve got; if this is it, I’m not impressed. Why is slaughtering children, as you put it, worse than standing by and letting an adult (or born child) die for lack of a healthy organ?

        • Kristiburtonbrown

          First, I’m all for organ donation. However, we’re talking about two VERY different scenarios. About 2% of all abortions happen after rape or incest. That means that roughly 98% of women who have abortions chose to engage in an act that they knew could make them pregnant. There is a BIG difference in being expected to take responsibility for the result of your own chosen actions (i.e., not kill the baby you helped create) and being forced to donate an organ to someone who you did not make sick in any way, shape, or form. There’s plenty of logical arguments we could get into here, but in this scenario, responsibility is the bottom line…

          • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

            No, no it’s not. It’s responsible to use birth control, it’s responsible not to bring unwanted children into the world, and it’s responsible to take responsibility for one’s actions by aborting an unwanted conceptus. And if you make abortion unavailable, it’s unavailable to everyone no matter their circumstances. That includes that small proportion of rape victims (almost all incest is rape, so I’ve never understood why it had its own special category).

            If I go skiing, I don’t intend to break my leg. I didn’t consent to break my leg. Does that mean the broken leg should go untreated? No. Consent to sex IS NOT consent to pregnancy. It never has been, and especially now with modern contraceptive methods, it never should be.

            Plus, again, you’re ignoring that pregnant women are people. If they don’t want to be a walking, talking, breathing life support system, they shouldn’t have to be. End of story. Organ donation is a noble and good thing, but forced organ donation is horrible. Pregnancy is a noble and good thing, but forced pregnancy is horrible. How can you miss that women are people and do not lose their rights as human beings when they become pregnant? Why do you think a fetus has more rights than the woman it’s living inside of?

          • Basset_Hound

            Again, you’re ignoring the fact that babies are people. Three years ago, I didn’t WAAAAANNNNNAAAAAA (wah..wah..wah) be a walking, talking, breathing support system for a snotty foul mouthed teenager either, so does that mean I had the right to kill her? End of story. As for the daughter, thank God we got to the bottom of the hormonal imbalance that was causing her nasty disposition. With the proper meds, she’s a happier, more peaceful and totally delightful young woman.

          • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

            You can hand them off to other people to raise. They are not dependent on you alone; others can do what you do to feed, clothe, and care for them. As soon as we come up with a way to transfer fetuses from an unwilling host to a willing one or artificial womb, I might listen to this. Until then, I’ll stick with bodily autonomy being more important than life. It is, after all, the determination we’ve made for everyone but fertile women. I just want to extend it to cover everyone.

          • http://twitter.com/SicBorodin Sic Borodin

            A better analogy would say that, in skiing, you didn’t consent to get to the bottom of the hill. Sorry, but chances are pretty good that thanks to gravity, you’re going to wind up there. You can throw a fit about it, but again. Gravity. That’s just the way things work.

            This is like army guys in the movies constantly saying “I didn’t sign up for this!” Yes, you goofball, you DID sign up for this. Only a fool discovers she’s pregnant and then throws her hands up in the air, saying, “I didn’t know this could happen!” She DID know. She just engaged in some creative doublethink so she could have her cake and eat it, too. So what you’re saying is that an innocent should die because of a woman’s selfishness/ignorance/stupidity/horrifying heartlessness/take your pick.

            Now, finally, this nonsense about the fetus having “more rights.” No, no, the fetus has THE SAME rights. It’s you who seek out unequal rights – the woman has the right to life, but the fetus doesn’t. How can you even try to argue this point?

          • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

            Oh dear, what lovely illogic. Here we go.

            Sex does not always lead to pregnancy. In fact, given proper precautions, it rarely does. If I’m skiing on a slope that’s not too hard for my skill level and wearing proper protective gear, I can reasonably assume I won’t break a leg. If I have sex while using a condom and having an IUD (as a random example), I can reasonably assume I won’t get pregnant. Is breaking a leg/getting pregnant still a possibility? Of course, but it’s not likely, and the fact that I took that risk doesn’t mean I don’t deserve treatment for the unlikely negative outcome.

            Or let’s say I’m a totally reckless skier. I just got off the bunny slope but decide that black diamond slope looks totally doable. We’ll call this unprotected sex. It’s not shocking I broke a leg/got pregnant, but don’t I still deserve treatment? Should we not treat the broken legs of people who do dumb things? Or take the earlier example- should we fail to treat pulmonary emphysema of smokers, because they smoked and basically did it to themselves?

            So no, having sex isn’t signing up for pregnancy and/or a baby. It’s signing up for sex. Yes, it can happen, and having an early abortion is taking responsibility. It’s taking the responsibility to not bring an unwanted child into the world.

            I do not have the right to get a liver transplant from an unwilling donor, even if my liver’s failing and I will die without one. People have the right to decide what to do with their bodies- blood, bone, organs, and all. That means they can choose not to donate any of that, even if another person will die if they don’t donate. If a fetus has the right to live inside a person, inside her organs, literally building itself out of her blood, tissue, nutrients, and energy, you are giving it more rights than you give any other person. You are giving it the right to steal a woman’s body for its own use. No one has the right to use another’s body without hir permission … except, according to you, a fetus. That is, in fact, giving a fetus more rights than any other person.

          • ldwendy

            I don’t think the pro-lifers are saying a fetus has more rights than the pregnant woman. They are saying since they consider the fetus a unique person/soul at conception, the fetus has the right to be born.

            And any woman who dares to disagree with them is not “taking responsibility” for carrying the “consequences” of the pregnancy to term. The longterm ramifications of raising a severely ill baby is your burden to carry because you “couldn’t keep your legs together”.

            Yeah, they do want punish women who have premarital sex.

          • Basset_Hound

            Spare me your martyrdom and violin strings, Whining Wendy.

            Your remark about us not recognizing the ramifications of raising a severely ill baby are nauseating beyond belief. Pro-lifers are not ignorant to the ramifications of raising that child. God knows, some of us have been there. We are arguing that the child has a right to treatment, therapy AND love…not death because he is too difficult to raise. Your “punishment” remark is also ironic, considering your argument is for punishing the child for being in the wrong womb at the wrong time.

          • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

            I agree with your points in general, but I also really do think they are saying that fetuses have more rights than women. We don’t even force corpses to donate organs, valuing a person’s wishes when they were alive over the life of another, still-living person. Yet somehow, a fetus can override a still-living person’s wishes not to donate organs, tissue, blood, nutrients, and energy. Thus, they give a fetus more rights to live than any born person.

          • ldwendy

            Yes, the pro-lifers like to say every fetus has a right to be born. Part of the problem is that no one has constructed a cost-effective artificial womb to carry the blood and nutrients required for a fetus to grow. Modern day incubators do not simulate a natural womb well, especially for very young neonates.

          • Basset_Hound

            If you injure me while you’re skiing, what you “intended” or what you “consented to” is irrelevant. You do NOT get to leave me to freeze to death on the slope so that you don’t have to face any consequences for your behavior.

            And saying “consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy” is like saying “consent to smoking is not consent to pulmonary disease”. It doesn’t work.

          • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

            Why not? Do we refuse to treat pulmonary disease because someone smoked? I think that’s an excellent example, actually.

        • http://twitter.com/SicBorodin Sic Borodin

          First, a lesson in etymology: “donation” takes its roots in “give,” not “loan” – “loan” being the closest anyone can charitably get to your ridiculous interpretation of what happens vis-à-vis the uterus during pregnancy.

          Second, it’s just hilarious to hear you talk about “the ramifications of your arguments for other people’s bodily autonomy and integrity.” Babe, the whole pro-life argument hinges on the right to bodily autonomy; you just refuse to see that, because you’re self-obsessed and it’s not YOUR bodily autonomy we’re talking about. Take your eyeball off the mirror for a second.

          Finally, yes, I understand that this point is very, very, very hard for pro-aborts to understand – and granted, if pro-aborts got logic, they wouldn’t be pro-aborts. But I’ll spell it out for you: there is a world of difference between “standing by and letting … die” and actively invading a woman’s womb with sharp instruments to dismember unto death the biologically unique human being there.

          Your deficient organ doesn’t entitle you to someone else’s. But by the same token, your deficient conscience doesn’t make it okay to suddenly do away with the whole “unalienable right to life” thing this country was founded on.

          • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

            Pro-choice. I am not pro-abortion, generally. It’s sad abortions ever happen or have to happen. But I support giving any woman the right to choose when and whether she has children.

            So tell me again: why does a fetus have more right to life than a born person? There isn’t a world of moral difference between taking a pill to cause a miscarriage, having a vacuum suction abortion, and standing by watching someone die when you have the means at hand to save them. Not in my world.

            Also, I’m sooo glad we got to the biologically unique argument. Really. Please tell me if identical twins are one person or two. Also, cancer has unique human DNA- it’s more different from its host than the DNA of identical twins. Is killing cancer an abortion? Does a hydatidiform mole and or ovarian teratoma count as a person?. Why aren’t those people? They have unique DNA. Also, chimaeras have two sets of DNA in a single person- are they actually two people?

            Clearly, there’s a lot more that goes what makes a person than unique human DNA.

    • Basset_Hound

      Every one here has a car and/or a driver’s licence, right?

      Let’s say I’m at a stop light minding my own business and you rear-end me.

      It doesn’t matter if your brakes unexpectedly failed or if your accelerator unexpectedly got stuck. It doesn’t matter if you didn’t realize the antihistamines you took a few hours ago would make you punchy. It doesn’t matter if you’re slobbering drunk (or stoned). It doesn’t matter if you were texting, if you had a drink spill all over your lap, if you were changing a CD, or if you were picking something up off the floor of your car. You pay. It doesn’t matter if you’re driving a brand new $50,000 Lexus off the dealer’s lot, and you don’t consider my 1996 Civic held together with rust and bondo a “real car”.

      What? You have family obligations? You have work, you say? You say you’ve got too many bills to pay as it is, and this expense could push you and your family to the brink of starvation? You want to throw a grand mal hissy fit, stomp your feet and say “I DON’T WAAAAANNNNAAA and you’re enslaving me”. Too bad. You pay for my repairs, and for my medical expenses because your choice created that situation for me. You find yourself in a lot worse trouble if you try to flee the scene and leave me bleeding in my car. There’s a concept at work, called “personal responsibility” and it’s what you sign up for if you get behind the wheel of a car. It carries over into other areas of life as well….such as sex. Too bad that concept is something so totally foreign to you that it is unrecognizable.

      • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

        So it’s not a baby in the case of rape, then? Or responsible use of birth control that failed? Or responsible use of birth control that was sabotaged by a partner? Or when the mother’s life is at risk?

        It’s only a baby when you get to punish a woman for daring to have sex, but otherwise, totally not. The real reason for the pro-life movement rears its ugly head all too soon- it’s not about the children, it’s about controlling women’s lives.

        • Basset_Hound

          If a pregnancy goes so dreadfully awry that both lives will be lost if no medical intervention takes place, the life that can be saved should be saved. If’ it’s the mother’s life then the death of the child is an unfortunate but unintended consequence. That has been the position of EVERY pro-life organization. As for rape..it’s still a baby and just as much a victim of the rapist’s aggression as the woman. The baby should not be punished for the father’s crime.

          It’s a baby if you only knew the guy you hooked up with for fifteen minutes, and were drunk when you staggered off with him.

          it’s a baby if you were a teenager, and you weren’t really serious about having a child…you just wanted to see if you were a big girl and could get pregnant.

          It’s a baby if he pleaded and plied you with sweet words of love and empty promises, then got distant when he found out you were pregnant, and all you want now is to forget you ever loved or trusted him.

          It’s a baby if your birth control method failed, or the dude poked a hole in the condom so he could prove he’s a big boy by fathering a child.

          And here’s where YOUR side rears it’s ugly head and you show you’re nothing but a movement of spoiled children who lash out and punish others for YOUR total narcissism and lack of emotional resilience You scream like a two year old throwing a tantrum when someone dares to step forward and confront you with the reality that the world does not revolve around you and your genitals.

          • ldwendy

            “it’s a baby if you were a teenager, and you weren’t really serious about having a child…you just wanted to see if you were a big girl and could get pregnant.”

            It’s a baby the dude poked a hole in the condom so he could prove he’s a big boy by fathering a child.”

            The above scenarios about how a girl gets pregnant sound far fetched. Were you making them up?

          • Basset_Hound

            A Dear Abby column ran 11/24/2012 where a 15 year old was wanting to have a baby with her 18 year old boyfriend. Later in February, a mentor for young boys wrote in response that some of the boys would deliberately try to impregnate girls to prove their manhood and mentioned that some of these dudes would even punch holes in condoms. But far fetched or not, the point is that a baby is a baby no matter how he’s conceived and that one person’s circumstances do not merit causing the death of another.

          • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

            It’s always a baby. It’s always a person. I can concede your argument (which I do not agree with) and still think you are wrong.

            Is the mother a person? I’m not seeing any indication you give one solitary damn about women. I mean, if a man had to donate a single lobe of his liver (which will grow back, so it’s more like a “loan”) to a person who would die without it, we’d be screaming about how that violates his bodily autonomy and no one has the right to enslave him and that’s mean and unfair and totally not right.

            Why does forcing a woman to donate her uterus, blood, nutrients, and energy to a fetus sound acceptable to you? Why does a more invasive, more dangerous, more life-changing process than organ donation get a pass? Why does a fetus have more rights than a born person? It’s hardly narcissism to stand up and say “I AM A PERSON!”, it’s basic human dignity.

  • http://nicolejeannette.com/ Nicole Jeannette Phillips

    THANK YOU for posting this. It breaks my heart that someone could knowingly murder a child and make them suffer and call it “good.”

  • JDC

    This may very well be their most insane ad campaign yet, but I’m sure they’ll find some way to top it soon enough.