Opinion

Pro-abortion commitment to late-term abortion revealed in legal challenges

The news has been full of pro-life laws over the past few weeks. I recently wrote an article about the reaction of Planned Parenthood to the organization’s loss of a lawsuit against the pro-life law in South Dakota, which mainly involved informed consent regarding the link between abortion and suicide.

Unfortunately, however, this week saw the setback of two pro-life bills. One involved a lawsuit against an Arizona law, which would ban abortions after 20 weeks of pregnancy not only based on fetal pain, but also because abortions which occur this late in term can be dangerous for women. Thus, the law was called “The Mother’s Health and Safety Act.”

While the bill was upheld a few days ago by a federal judge in Arizona in order for the bill to go into effect on August 2, it was halted at the last moment by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, only two days later, on August 1. Live Action News has just published a post about this lawsuit.

On July 31, the The D.C. Pain Capable Unborn Child Protection Act (H.R. 3803) was up for vote in the House, and while it gained a majority, it failed to capture the two-thirds vote. The final vote was 220-154, mostly along party lines. While it failed to acquire the necessary amount of votes, Michael New points out that such a necessity actually benefits the bill because then there is no room to allow for unnecessary amendments.

With the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals striking down the bill in Arizona and the 6 Republicans and 148 Democrats voting against H.R. 3803, is the abortion industry to blame (or commend)? Many pro-abortion organizations think so.

The lawsuit against “The Mother’s Health and Safety Act” was filed by the Center for Reproductive Rights (CRR) and the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU). While the ACLU does not focus solely on the issue of abortion, it is a pro-abortion organization. The following is a statement  from Nancy Northup, President and CEO of CRR and comes from the organization’s website:

Today’s decision by the Ninth Circuit is a vital reaffirmation of the constitutional protections for reproductive rights that have been upheld by the United States Supreme Court for nearly 40 years.

We have fought to keep all medical options, including abortion, available to every woman facing devastating complications in her pregnancy, and today we have won a critical victory.

We will continue this battle now to ensure that the private and personal decisions of Arizona women are not subject to arbitrary and dangerous restrictions advanced by an extreme anti-choice agenda.

The last sentence is especially telling in showing how pro-aborts really view this bill as a piece of legislation that restricts abortion in any way. In her own words, the primary focus is how it represents “an extreme anti-choice agenda” and has “arbitrary and dangerous restrictions” to advance this so-called agenda. While Ms. Northup may use such choice words to describe this bill, the fact of the matter is that this bill seeks to protect not only the unborn, but women as well. In such a statement it may seem that the only way to stand up for women and for “all medical options” is to include abortion and “reproductive rights.” I don’t think that Ms. Northup much cares that the title of the bill is “The Mother’s Health and Safety Act,” and I doubt that she sees any relevance to its title and how it protects the health and safety of a woman.

What the Center for Reproductive Rights calls “dangerous” in such a statement includes a prohibition on abortion past 20 weeks – not only because of pain felt by the pre-born child, but also because of safety risks to the mother. This comes from evidence that there are greater complications for a mother who has an abortion later in her pregnancy. It also establishes an informed consent website. Yet such a bill is said to be full of “arbitrary and dangerous restrictions” and involve “an extreme anti-choice agenda”? It is a wonder that the Center for Reproductive Rights and the ACLU have even read and are discussing the same bill, then.

In regards to the recently defeated H.R. 3803 bill, the National Organization for Women (NOW) not only is taking credit and claiming victory in defeat of the bill, but makes a political statement in calling for defeat of those who voted in favor. This should be kept in mind next time a person or organization says that it is the GOP or pro-lifers who are acting out of political motivation, just like House Democrat Whip Steny H. Hoyer (MD) said about this bill.The following is a statement from NOW President Terry O’Neill, which can be found on the organization’s website:

Today, extremists in Congress continued their War on Women by pressing for legislation that would criminalize abortions in the nation’s capital after 20 weeks of pregnancy. Sponsored by Rep. Trent Franks (R-Ariz.), the D.C. 20-Week Abortion Ban would have imposed federal fines and up to two years’ imprisonment for doctors, without exceptions for rape, incest or the pregnant woman’s health.

NOW and its allies worked around the clock to defeat the bill, and I am gratified that we succeeded. The next step is to replace those who voted for it with candidates who respect women’s fundamental right to make their own reproductive health care decisions.

The D.C. 20-week abortion ban is yet another example of House conservatives placing women’s health at risk as they pursue their reckless War on Women. The proposed ban, moreover, was a clear infringement of the District’s right to home rule, and yet another outrageous example of the radical right using D.C.’s lack of statehood as an excuse to set a federal precedent that chips away at Roe v. Wade.

Rep. Franks and the 220 representatives who voted for this divisive anti-woman bill have no business interfering with the private decisions a woman makes with her doctor. More importantly, they have no place in the House of Representatives.

From now to November, NOW activists will be working to defeat those who voted for this appalling bill and replace them with those who support our rights.

This statement is full of potent words to describe this bill and those who supported it, including “extremists,” “reckless,” “radical right,” “divisive anti-woman bill,” and “appalling.” All terms are used to describe what is a bill which is similar to the Arizona bill in that it outlaws abortion after 20 weeks based on scientific testimony that an unborn baby can feel pain at this point. To limit abortions after 20 weeks because of scientific evidence should not be considered extreme. An unborn child at this age appears increasingly more humanized. The unborn child at this age is developing more rapidly and looks even more similar to premature babies who are born. He or she may also be viable outside of the womb in just a few short weeks. Rational pro-choicers I would like to think do not advocate for abortion because it causes pain and suffering for the unborn child. Rather, they seek to provide a woman with options when it comes to whether or not she will carry her pregnancy to term. A bill such as this would not all out end abortion. It would limit abortion past 20 weeks, for the sake of the mother as well, and would still allow a woman to seek out and have an abortion prior to this 20 week period. This law is even in place already in a few states. What Terry O’Neill may not know or may ignore is the fact that the opposite political effect may in fact happen. As Douglas Johnson is said to have mentioned, it is the 154 representatives who will have to explain their vote. The LifeNews article where Johnson is mentioned also includes numbers from a poll taken by the National Right to Life Committee:

A recent poll commissioned by the National Right to Life Committee found that 63 percent of Americans, and 70 percent of women, support legislation to ban abortions past the point at which unborn children feel pain. The NRLC poll also found that American women, by an overwhelming majority of 62-27 percent, would be more likely to vote for lawmakers who support this bill.

Most who are against abortion know that such passage of either of these bills would be a victory. Even if it is not the desired outcome of the overturning of Roe v. Wade just yet, it at least limits abortion based on evidence with a possibility that both sides could hopefully find common ground on if the result is less women dying.

Most pro-lifers believe that abortion at any stage is wrong because it takes the life of an unborn human being. Most pro-choicers disagree on the belief that the mother’s womb contains just a blob of tissue.

The common ground should at least be that abortion can and does hurt women. And it has a greater risk of doing so later in term. Evidence and studies about effects from abortion such as mental health or a suicide link are often disputed. But if a woman dies or has a physical injury from abortion, that cannot so much be disputed.

If such bills went into effect, they would not ban abortion before 20 weeks. Women would still be able to get an abortion. They would just be able to get an abortion only before 20 weeks because of the pain the unborn child would feel after that and out of safety to themselves. How is that “continu[ing] their War on Women”?

Such bills are not continuing a “War on Women.” It’s time to call out the issues here for what they really are. Such bills are a “War on Abortion.” And abortion, in many ways, with the death of girls not yet born and of Ms. Tonya Reaves, has shown to actually be the real “War on Women.” Thus, even if such organizations as the Center for Reproductive Rights and the National Organization for Women, which even has the word “Women” in its name, claim to be fighting for women’s rights, they are really fighting more for abortion rights. And by opposing a bill that a majority of Americans, and of women, support, they are really the extreme and radical ones in this situation.

I would like to hear from an ordinary supporter or volunteer for one of these organizations. I don’t want to hear from the CEO or the president, both of whom stand to gain from such legislation failing. I want to hear from a regular pro-choicer, preferably who has read up on both of the bills. What cause is there to call either of these bills so extreme? What cause is there to consider those who sponsor or voted for either of these bills so extreme? Is it merely because they hold a different viewpoint?

In an ideal world, if these organizations actually fought for the women they claim to fight for in their statements, rather than for abortion, one could maybe even expect such organizations to support either of these bills rather than filing lawsuits and celebrating defeat. Alas, this cannot be expected, because it all comes down to supporting, even worshiping, the altar of abortion on demand and without any restrictions.

CRR, NOW, and other similar organizations are so beholden, and at an extreme level, to this ideology of abortion, which is the real reason why they so strong oppose both of these bills. These are organizations that fight not only for the “right” to abortion, which they certainly do, but as they have shown to do in speaking out against these seemingly common sense bills with a majority in support of them, they will fight against any limitations whatsoever. Both of these bills are dangerous then, certainly. They are dangerous to abortion, though, not to women. Such organizations have to make a decision as to whom and what they are going to really fight for: women or abortion?

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  • Detroiter327

    First of all, awesome job on the thorough and well thought out post. I would like to explain to you why I find some of these bills extreme, but I would like my response to be equally as thorough. That will take a bit of time. First though I would like to ask this. The poll that you keep referring to was done by phone. As far as I could find out (
    http://nrlc.org/abortion/Fetal_Pain/MediaAdvisory071712.pdf) the poll did not take age, political association or race into account. Just gender. It is very important to distinguish if the poll was done by landline or cell phone. Landline polling has been shown (since the growth of cell phone use) to be extremely problematic, and give skewed results. The majority of people reached by landline only tend to be over the age of 65, white and Republican. Have you been able to find if this was a cell/landline poll or just landline?
    http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1806/growing-gap-between-landline-and-dual-frame-election-polls

    • Rebecca Downs

      Wow, thank you so much for your kind words!!!

      Yes, the poll was done by phone and from what I’ve read on it does only take gender into consideration. I think the purpose of this is to show that a majority of women asked said that they do support the DC pain bill. And that goes to show these pro-abortion, extremist organizations that even though they claim to be fighting for women’s “rights,” a majority of women asked actually supported this bill… and to be honest, Idk if taking into consideration race, age, political association, etc, matters. I think what is encouraging is that it shows that a majority of people asked, regardless of a certain grouping, understand the reasons behind this common sense bill. And I actually don’t know if it’s cell or landline. I know that sometimes when I’ve done phone banking for a candidate, we get both cell phone and landline numbers, depending on whatever people put down.

      Hope my answer makes sense and thank you again for your encouragement!

      • Detroiter327

        Its well deserved, in my opinion you are the most objective person on the site. Anyways! You must be careful when looking at this poll. The poll never asked if people were in favor of either bill.
        It asked Unless an abortion is necessary to save a mother’s life, do you think abortion should be permitted after the point where substantial medical evidence says that the unborn child can feel pain?
        You cannot look at that question and say a majority of the people in the country were in favor of either bill. You also can not say that they are in favor of fetal pain legislation, since the science on that is not substantial. On top of that we cannot say this is the “majority of women” if this was done by land line. If it was done by landline the correct assumption would be the majority of white Republican women over the age of 65 are in favor. Unless polling is balanced you cannot use it to say the majority of Americans feel a certain way.

        • Rebecca Downs

          Sorry I didn’t respond sooner, I guess it didn’t go through… again, thank you for your kind words and your point though.

          The parts of the poll from the National Right to Life Committee (NRLC) which I am referring to I got from a LifeNews article which has an excerpt from the exact wording:

          The polling firm asked:
          Currently, within the District of Columbia, the nation’s capital, there is no abortion law at all. This means that abortion is legal there, for any reason, right up until the moment of birth. This summer, Congress is considering a bill that would not allow abortion in the District of Columbia after 22 weeks of pregnancy – which means after the beginning of the sixth month of pregnancy – unless the mother’s life is in danger. Would you be more or less likely to vote for a Member of Congress who votes in favor of this bill? And would you be (ROTATED) more or less likely to vote for a Member of Congress who votes in favor of this bill? (PROBED: And would that be MUCH or SOMEWHAT MORE/LESS LIKELY?)
          58% TOTAL MORE LIKELY (NET) [women: 62%; men: 53%]38% MUCH MORE LIKELY20% SOMEWHAT MORE LIKELY
          27% TOTAL LESS LIKELY (NET) [women: 27%; men, 27%]8% SOMEWHAT LESS LIKELY19% MUCH LESS LIKELY
          12% MAKES NO DIFFERENCE/DEPENDS (VOLUNTEERED)2% DO NOT KNOW (VOLUNTEERED)1% REFUSED (VOLUNTEERED)
          “In the District of Columbia, abortion is now legal, for any reason, until the moment of birth,” said NRLC Legislative Director Douglas Johnson. “Under the Constitution, Members of Congress, and the President, are ultimately accountable for this extreme policy. A vote against this bill amounts to a vote to ratify the current policy in the nation’s capital, which is legal abortion for any reason until the moment of birth.”
          In response to a separate poll question, adults favored, by a 3-to-1 margin, a policy of not permitting abortion anywhere “after the point where substantial medical evidence says that the unborn child can feel pain,” unless it is “necessary to save a mother’s life.”
          The polling firm asked:
          Unless an abortion is necessary to save a mother’s life, do you think abortion should be permitted after the point where substantial medical evidence says that the unborn child can feel pain?
          63% NO, ABORTION SHOULD NOT BE PERMITTED [women:70%; men:55%]21% YES, ABORTION SHOULD BE PERMITTED [women:18%, men:25%]8% DEPENDS (VOLUNTEERED)4% DO NOT KNOW (VOLUNTEERED)3% REFUSED (VOLUNTEERED)

          I do hope and believe that the NRLC had the intent and was successful in being fair, balanced and accurate. Hopefully this clears some things up, but nevertheless, thank you again for bringing up the point that you did.

          • Rebecca Downs

            So it may not have asked exactly if responders supported the bill, you are right in that sense. But I think asking about fetal pain and likelihood to vote for or support candidates who voted for this bill and the answers that came out can say that people support this bill.

  • Detroiter327

    First, I disagree with the premise both bills are founded on. I think the science is not substantial enough, and there is not a general scientific consensus. In fact those that believe the fetus can feel pain that early are in the minority (resource below). Many scientists will argue that unless certain parts of the brain are up and functioning, pain cannot be felt. Also, reaction to stimuli does not mean the fetus is “recoiling in pain” as many pro life websites like to report. There are also problems with both bills that make them against a woman’s general health.
    We must address that abortions after 20 weeks are done very rarely, and most generally are done in the fetus has developed severe problems. The DC bill only offers an exception for death, and the AZ bill is basically the same. Just for something to be “unhealthy” does not mean it has to result in death. There are a myriad of “unhealthy” things can happen late in a pregnancy, and a woman should not be forced to endure these so she can carry a non-viable fetus. For example would you be willing to significantly harm a woman’s fertility in order for her to carry a non viable fetus? At the end of the day it should be between a woman and her doctor. I would also argue that forcing a woman to carry a fetus that has such life altering defects where its death is imminent after birth is emotionally and mentally traumatizing. Forcing someone to damage their body and mind because of someone elses religious beliefs (and a minority of professionals take on science) is indeed extreme.
    I have separate problems with the Arizona bill. False gestational counting, the punishments for not adopting the false gestational counting, and the forced ultrasounds are high among my concerns. Dictating a woman’s healthcare because of moral objections (because there is nothing scientific or medically necessary about an ultrasound and this stage) is extreme. We must also be careful with what information the woman is being forced to look at and be told. Is she being forced to listen to the same studies by Priscilla Coleman that the scientific community has proved to be false?
    Finally, if this was really about the woman’s health, the woman should be able to make these decisions with her doctor, just like any other surgery. All surgeries have risks (many include death) and the woman should weigh these decisions and make up her mind, without someone’s religious objections, or disputed science getting in the way.

    • Detroiter327
    • Rebecca Downs

      Thank you for your many points. You certainly were thorough, as you had hoped to be I remember you saying. I will definitely indeed try to address them all the best I can!

      I am speaking as a 100% pro-lifer, so my points may be biased in that sense, but they come from what I truly do believe. I am against abortion at *any* stage of the pregnancy/age of the fetus. I thank you for your source, but if there is even a *possibility* coming from scientists and doctors that the unborn child can feel pain, then that is enough for me for a reason why abortion should be not allowed at that stage. If an unborn child is reacting to a pain stimuli, how do you think they are reacting if they’re recoiling in pain, then? I do not mean to sound sarcastic, I just truly am curious as to what type of reaction they have if it is not one to do with pain… I also respectfully disagree that these bills are against women’s general health, when sources say that women are at a greater risk the later in term they wait to have an abortion. I question why a risk to a woman’s health was not discovered earlier in the pregnancy then. And I think many would agree that if there were a life-threatening issue to the woman, one which I must say rarely does happen, there could be exceptions made allowing the woman to get a late-term abortion.

      Even if abortions after 20 weeks are done rarely, that is not good enough for me. I want them to be done never. Myself, and other pro-lifers, believe that just because an unborn child will be born in such a way that it has severe problems does not make him or her any less worth living. If the parents do not wish to care for a disabled child, they can place the baby up for adoption or even just leave him or her at a safe haven, like at the hospital, a police or fire station. I wish no disrespect to the health of pregnant women, but I think all should be done to ensure she can have her unborn child and then receive the proper health treatment after the baby is born, provided she will not die if she continues the pregnancy. I do not think it should just be between a woman and her doctor because it is a choice no woman should have to make. The life inside her is denied a say and to be that is the biggest tragedy. Again, I feel for women who would go through the trauma of giving birth to a disabled child, but I would argue that abortion would likely be traumatizing for her as well. Once the child is born I am all in favor of the mother getting all the help, physical and emotional, that can possibly be provided.

      This gestational counting is something I understand many people have an issue with. When I was looking up pregnancy on WebMD because a friend thought she might be pregnant, I noticed that it explained and used this gestational age. I think we can all agree that WebMD is a non-biased source here. Ultrasounds are indeed medically necessary, at any stage, because the abortionist needs to determine how old the unborn child is to determine what kind of abortion is best, as well as where the child is in the womb so that he or she can be killed accurately. There are also chances that the pregnancy may be an ectopic pregnancy, which would need to be dealt with in a different manner. A woman is usually given a vaginal ultrasound because it is more medically accurate, but she may opt out for the other kind. A woman is also not “forced” to look at the ultrasound, but the doctor does point the screen in her direction to let her see the image if she wants to. To be, if there are any women documented, ever, suffering from abortion, physically or mentally, a woman should be given informed consent about those possible sufferings before the abortion procedure is done. I’d like to point out that for any other elective surgery they have informed consent as well…

      The connection to women’s health here is to lessen her chances of death or injury from an abortion (let’s please remember though that there always is a death with abortion, that of the unborn child), which happen to occur later on in the pregnancy. An abortion, at any stage, also leaves a woman with a possibility of committing suicide or suffering mentally or physically in other ways, due to regret which may last for the rest of her life. By choosing either life or adoption for her baby, a mother can be spared from this and her baby can live as well.

      Thank you for your points. While we agree to disagree, I very much appreciate how you worded them. You were opinionated but also polite. I guess I got what I asked for in my article then when I asked to hear from an ordinary pro-choice person and I thank you for that, lol!

      • ProTruth2

        I question why a risk to a woman’s health was not discovered earlier in the pregnancy then.

        Some conditions simply don’t present themselves until later in the pregnancy. The fact that a woman does not have any complications at 20 weeks is not a guarantee that the pregnancy will be risk-free for the next 16-18 weeks. And if symptoms are evident at 20 weeks, the appropriate treatment may be to simply monitor the condition and to act only if it worsens later.

        I also respectfully disagree that these bills are against women’s
        general health, when sources say that women are at a greater risk the
        later in term they wait to have an abortion.

        Women’s health is not aided by denying that each individual’s medical situation is unique. If I remember correctly, the judge’s opinion on the Arizona bill said that it protects women’s health because the death rate for an early abortion is one in a million women and the death rate for abortion after 20 weeks is 1 out of every 11,000 women. So the law may protect the interests of a hypothetical woman in good health. But if a real pregnant woman, for example, discovers at 20 weeks that she has a condition that kills 1 in 500 women, that is the risk that matters, not the 1 in 11,000 risk on which the law is based. The woman will probably think that the risk is small enough that she would want to continue the pregnancy. She might think that she would only have an abortion if her condition worsens to the point that she has a 1 in 10 chance of death, or her future childbearing is at risk, or whatever, but Arizona isn’t giving her that choice. It says that if she does not end a high-risk pregnancy immediately, she cannot end it until she becomes so sick that she is in immediate danger of death (when the surgery will be at a higher risk than it would have been earlier). And so the Arizona law does not protect the health of women who have higher-risk pregnancies than the average woman: it simply denies them the ability to define their own risk tolerance.

        Myself, and other pro-lifers, believe that just because an unborn child
        will be born in such a way that it has severe problems does not make him
        or her any less worth living. If the parents do not wish to care for a disabled child, they can place the baby up for adoption or even just
        leave him or her at a safe haven, like at the hospital, a police or fire station.

        Pro-lifers have tried very hard to convince everyone that women who have abortions due to fetal anomalies are just too selfish to raise an imperfect child. That’s not always true. If you read these women’s stories in their own words, you’ll see that one reason that women (or couples) terminate the pregnancy of a fetus with a severe anomaly is that whatever possible pain the fetus may feel during the abortion is far less than the suffering the infant would experience after birth. Your solution of dropping a terminally ill newborn off at a fire station like you’d drop a puppy off at a pound misses the point: it implies that the women don’t mind the baby suffering as long as they don’t have to see it, when in fact, they don’t want it to suffer at all. It is fundamentally dishonest to ban abortion based on ‘fetal pain’ without making an exception for anomalies that cause infants to experience pain, because such a law ensures rather than prevents suffering. That is why some people consider the law ‘extreme.’

        If you read the stories linked above, you’ll also notice that no one wants to terminate a wanted due to fetal anomaly or maternal health without at least getting a second opinion, and unless you are at a major diagnostic facility, you might have to wait a week or two for an appointment. And when a potential anomaly is discovered on an ultrasound, the only way of confirming the diagnosis is often to wait a couple weeks and do another ultrasound. This is another reason some people consider the Arizona law ‘arbitrary’ and ‘extreme:’ because the law bans abortion very soon after the earliest possible date when some conditions can be detected, it severely restricts a woman’s ability to explore all her medical options and to confirm the diagnosis.

        • Rebecca Downs

          I am going to address your last point. I think you severely try to generalize pro-lifers. I do not think that people are too selfish for wanting to abort their unborn child with deformities. I think they are frightened and misguided. I wish that they would go to this organization as well as a genetic counselor who is going to encourage them to abort: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CEQQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fbenotafraid.net%2F&ei=5hMrUNeKB-SH6QHgvYH4Bg&usg=AFQjCNHqzoAwNHNnZPnP93FYs3P7QWBILA

          Especially if the baby was wanted should he or she not have deformities, I am simply saying that it really is a shame to consider someone who is “different” or “deformed” less worthy of life. The real extremity and discrimination is against people with disabilities alive today. If a woman gave birth and said get that thing away from me, I don’t want to see it, she could do so! That baby would still be given to someone who would be more than thrilled to care for a child and share life, even if somebody was disabled.

          • Detroiter327

            This is not about simply being “deformed”. This is about delivering a baby with a severe abnormality. Women arent aborting babies left and right because they have a cleft palate or one arm or something. In this context we are referring to babies that have severe problems, like having no lungs, half a brain, things that could be fatal very soon after delivery. You need to give these women more credit than thinking they are superficial “ew get this away from me” people. The decision is a very hard one with a lot of introspection. This is a very sad video detailing one womans proces with it
            http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/video/2012/04/11/how-nebraskas-20-week-abortion-ban-became-one-familys-nightmare-and-why-we-need-to-#commentsAlso, carrying any high risk pregnancy to term comes with GREAT physical risks to the mother and can decrease future fertility.