000loveshackofdeath

Pro-abortion Mom of the Year: “I don’t regret helping my 15-year-old daughter get an abortion”

000loveshackofdeath
Mississippi’s last abortion clinic, the Jackson Women’s Health Center. For some reason I began to think of this bright pink monstrosity as the Love Shack of Death, and the name has stuck.

There is one abortion clinic left open in Mississippi. It is called Jackson Women’s Health Organization, and it is painted bright pink, as if to say, “We are here for the ladies, and we’re not going away.” This clinic is sassy, you guys, and it’s in danger of closing because of a new Mississippi law mandating that all abortionists obtain admitting privileges at a hospital. Nearby hospitals are not keen on giving admitting privileges to abortionists (because, ew), so the fate of Mississippi’s hot pink Love Shack of Death remains unknown.

The people who run and support this clinic are not above using social media to spread their message of peace, love, and abortion. Today I stumbled across their Facebook page and found, amidst multiple shared photos and articles from a site called Rock the Slut Vote (ahem), a link to the clinic’s blog, The Last Abortion Clinic. The title of the post is “I don’t regret helping my daughter get an abortion.”

As you can imagine, the title caught my attention. I started reading a mother’s description of finding out her 15-year-old daughter was pregnant:

In my mind my daughter knew better. She is the homeschooled daughter of the president of the state chapter of a national feminist organization. The first time she ever spoke at the capitol was at a joint Senate and House hearing on teen pregnancy. She was 13 and spoke about the need for comprehensive sex education. She and I along with her sister are clinic escorts. She knows all about birth control, condoms, and Plan B. She has always had knowledge about and access to contraception as well as being encouraged to wait until she is older to have sex.

Wow, and now she’s 15 and pregnant? Where’s my shocked face?

The post goes on:

I had always said if one of my daughters got pregnant as a teen I wouldn’t flip out and judge her like so many parents do. I would love her, respect her, and let her choose how to handle it.

Yes, because so far she’s really awesome at choosing how to handle things. There’s a reason why 15-year-olds are not allowed to drive, drink, vote, join the military, or make lots of other life-changing decisions on their own. That’s why God created parents. But no, you go ahead and let her decide the fate of another human life and her entire future. I’m sure she’s totally up to it.

I took a deep breath put my arm around her and said “everything will be ok”. Then we traveled down the short hall to the counseling room at the clinic we escort at.

Oh, wow. Jeez. That’s really convenient.

But get ready for something that will make your jaw drop:

It’s funny how all the rational things you know about teen sex and pregnancy go out the window in a crisis. The truth is my daughter was using condoms. Guess what sometimes they fail. Especially, when children who aren’t educated in their use like my child is are the ones placing them on their penis.

Let’s unravel this thread of utter, mind-numbing wrongness real quick.

Okay, so first of all, she admits condoms fail. Is she also going to admit that sex-ed failed? That access to birth control and a feminist mother and knowing lots about sex failed? That all of that failed to keep her daughter not pregnant? That in fact abstinence is the only fail-safe way to avoid pregnancy?

On what can she blame this tragic pregnancy? Well, obviously: the condom was put on by someone other than her daughter, who is “educated in their use.” Who says that about her 15-year-old daughter?

Let’s put aside the fact that it is totally likely there was no condom. How can I say such a thing? Well, because every day across the world about a million girls agree to have sex without a condom because the boy doesn’t want to wear one and the girl wants the boy to like her. (Cue that song from Beauty and the Beast that goes, “Tale as old as time…”)

Inevitably, some of those girls get pregnant. And when their feminist mothers – who made sure they got lots of sex ed and access to birth control – ask, “How on earth did this happen?,” they can’t say, “Well, Mom, you taught me everything about sex except how to handle it like an adult woman because I’m not an adult woman.”

Instead they say, “The condom broke.”

But I wasn’t in the room. I don’t know what happened. So let’s assume there was a condom, and it broke. If the silly boy had just let her condom-educated daughter apply the prophylactic, none of this would have happened. You see, there just wasn’t quite enough sex education in this scenario to keep pregnancy from happening. There was almost enough. But the teenage boy didn’t have the requisite amount of quality training in condom application.

You know what this means: we need way more sex education in schools. Condom drills should definitely be required. Our children must be trained and certified Condom Technicians. We need state funding for bananas and cucumbers. Trojan will provide the condoms if you agree to make Trojan Man your official school mascot. I can see it all now.

Anyway, Mom of the Year goes on to describe how her daughter came to her agonizing decision all by herself, after being counseled by Mom on how hard it was for her (Mom of the Year) to be a teen mom, how as a doula who works with teen moms she sees all the hardships they face, how difficult it is to get benefits, and so on and so on. But her daughter decided ON HER OWN. Let’s be clear about that.

The post then covers the difficulty of affording abortion when living in poverty; how Mom obtained the necessary documents to get permission for her daughter; getting funding and religious counseling; how proud she was that her daughter decided to work as an escort the day of her procedure; and a lot more stuff that is basically the reason why the acronym “smh” was invented.

Then she says:

As a mother and woman of color I will continue to strive to make sure no one ever has the right to tell my children or anyone else when, how, and if they procreate.

This is the part where I started to feel more sad than disgusted. Mom of the Year has no idea the abortion industry is preying on people like her and her daughter: single women of color living below the poverty line are the industry’s meal ticket. But in a brilliant twist of ideological marketing, they’ve sold this oppression as liberation to the same community upon which they’re committing genocide.

You kind of have to think, “That’s pretty clever.” It’s the same feeling I got when I read about the flower beds the Nazis planted outside the gas chambers pretending to be showers, and I thought, “Well, you know, nice touch.”

So congratulations, abortion industry. You’ve taken a woman’s grandchild from her, and not only is she not angry or sad, but she’s posting blogs about what an empowering experience it was.

Oh, and so is her teenage daughter. The end of the post includes a contribution from poor Kayla, in which she says:

Did I feel sad? Yes. Do I regret it? No! Because I know that the spirit I named Mariah will go on to a woman who is ready for her.

There’s nothing else to say about this. There is only sadness.

  • belgianchic

    It’s sick how you anti-choicers act. This woman, this MOTHER did everything she was supposed to do for her daughter- and guess what? her daughter is FINE.

    • Mary Lee

      Yeah, we’re the sick ones. *eye roll*

    • Marauder

      Her grandchild isn’t fine. Her grandchild is dead.

    • JoeWetterling

      Did she give her daughter a “choice”? If her daughter had a choice, her daughter would have been presented with options, not given information by an abortion provider in-house. So there was no choice here, first off, only the illusion of choice.

      There was also no choice for the baby. Again, only the illusion of choice because that consequence doesn’t have to be seen publicly.

      Last, the girl doesn’t seem find. She didn’t ho-hum a medical procedure that evacuated some excess tissue — she named a baby. Mariah is dead, and she knows it on some level.

      • Laurie Bertram Roberts

        Did you actually read my original post? The day my daughter found out she was pregnant the doctor didn’t talk to her and neither did the staff except to give her the test and tell her how far along she was. We were at the clinic you made up the rest.
        I am sorry Joe do I know you? Do you know my family? Were you here when my daughter was given all her choices. Were you here when my daughter had access to and the ability to call the CPC if she wanted to. She is free to talk to clinic protesters and often does (generally she doesn’t like to). As I stated in a previous post my daughter not only had time to and indeed did read all the state mandated information she read all the anti choice pamphlets that we have from the protesters too. She was informed and she had choices.
        You don’t like my story because it doesn’t fit the narrative of “I’m a feminist and told my daughter to have an abortion”.
        What’s actually interesting is in the post I never once said what I wanted her to do. Everyone assumes my first idea was abortion. That actually shows how little y’all know about reproductive justice it’s not just about abortion.
        My daughter doesn’t have to justify how see chose to ID her embryo anymore than women who miscarry do.

        • JoeWetterling

          Laurie, you didn’t actually engage the points I made. I didn’t suggest any particular reading of your narrative. I pointed out that she was taken for counseling *at* the same facility where her baby was aborted. I may have misread that, but you haven’t said so. That is not an unbiased option, regardless of your or her thinking going in.

          You didn’t say what you wanted her to do. No, you didn’t outright. But let’s look at that. Assume you wanted her to keep the baby. If you let her abort, then you allowed your teenage daughter to make a decision counter to what you know is right, despite your responsibility as a parent. I’m assuming you’re not irresponsible, so you didn’t make that choice.
          You may have not cared what she chose. Not caring what your child does with her body needs no further argument against it. I assume you care about your daughter’s body (not to mention the baby), so I assume you didn’t make that choice.
          That leaves you wanting her to have an abortion. Its an assumption, yes, but its grounded in what you did and allowed to happen. If I’m wrong, and you wanted the baby to live and let her die anyway; or if you just didn’t care what your daughter did; please correct me. If I’m missing some other logical option, point it out.

          Also, if you believe in reproductive justice, why would you not carry that out past a single generation? That particular baby – that combination of DNA with that conception date, that particular birth date, that name – has no choice whether to live, let along reproduce. You have decided for another human whether or not they’ll get to have children. How is that just?
          Your daughter made a decision that could result in a baby. Her baby doesn’t get to make any decisions – that was made for her.

          • Laurie Bertram Roberts

            So I’m suppose to defend myself against your diatribe of assumptions that are not based in fact they are based in your beliefs? I’ll pass. Moreover if you don’t actual know all the steps my daughter went through to come to her decision then I guess that would mean you are just talking out you’re rear.
            I do love how in your response it doesn’t matter what I say I would be wrong because I helped her/didn’t stop her from getting an abortion.
            I regret nothing. I don’t regret supporting her I don’t regret allowing her to make her own choice and I don’t regret that she chose abortion.

  • Laurie Bertram Roberts

    I love that you think you have a right to speak for my daughter. She and I have spoken for ourselves and yet as usual you have decided to come in and TELL black women how we SHOULD feel rather than listen to how we DO FEEL.
    No birth control isn’t 100% the kids who use it the least and fail at the most aren’t kids like mine they are kids who were taught abstinence. I love the hypocrisy of your movement because either way you would have shamed my daughter.
    You would have shamed her if she had remained pregnant for her sexual choices (as you just did) and you are shaming her for having an abortion.

    • Laurie Bertram Roberts

      We don’t regret our choice to share our story nor does my daughter or I regret her abortion.

      • Marauder

        Speaking theoretically, if your daughter *did* regret her abortion, would you acknowledge that?

        • Laurie Bertram Roberts

          Of course that’s why I had counseling for her before her procedure and it’s been available after. I don’t deny that some women grieve, feel sadness, and even regret. My daughter has had none.
          Why? Because she really was given the choice to make her own decision. I think it’s interesting that had my post been about our family supporting her choosing to parent y’all would be all over it. Then she would be a smart empowered 15 year old. Instead she is being written about as a stupid poor black girl who was taken advantage of. It is hypocritical, classist, and racist.

          • Marauder

            I don’t think your daughter is a stupid poor black girl.

            I’m glad you acknowledge that women regret abortions; I’ve heard a lot of pro-choicers claim that various women’s stories of pain and depression after an abortion are a bunch of made-up propaganda, and nothing makes me angrier than people who deny or dismiss other people’s pain.

          • Unicorn Farm

            ‘nothing makes me angrier than people who deny or dismiss other people’s pain.”

            You should go talk to Basset Hound, who upthread dismissed the story of a woman who regretted placing her baby for adoption, (the loving option?!) calling her “some malcontent.”

            Gosh, I really wanna be pro-life after reading that.

          • Marauder

            I’m responsible for what I say, and Basset Hound is responsible for what she says.

          • Laurie Bertram Roberts

            You didn’t write this story but the posts have followed the stories narrative. That my daughter and I are stupid and we just don’t know. We are just pawns of the abortion industry (you know like black people are because we are sooo stupid). I am not stupid my daughter is not stupid. I don’t go to anti choice rallies and harass women who say they regret their abortion. In fact I listen to them respectfully often we have dialogue.

            You did mean how when people dismiss other people’s pain and stories like y’all are dismissing my daughter’s as untrue. Mocking her words and speaking of her as a victim. If I came on here and did the same on someone’s abortion regret story I would be wrong. I also have never and would never do that.

            Pot meet kettle. I can’t judge another woman’s pain or the truth of her story.Do I personally think some regret stories are embellished and women are guilted and used, yes. That still doesn’t give me the right to say if her pain isn’t real or what her experience was/is.

            I also know women regret many decisions they make we don’t turn around and treat them as too stupid to make decisions.

          • Marauder

            I didn’t dismiss your daughter’s story as untrue. I believe everything you’ve said about your daughter’s pregnancy and abortion. But you and your daughter willingly killed her child and your grandchild, and that’s wrong no matter what race anyone is, how smart anyone is, or what anyone says about it beforehand or afterwards.

            Seeing as everything stays around forever on the Internet, I also have to wonder about the wisdom of you and your daughter posting her story under her real name. Is this what you want your daughter’s potential employers to see when they Google her? Is your daughter still going to want this to be online when she’s forty years old? I understand that you both find this story important to share, but I also know that people can be cruel, and you’re putting your daughter at a big risk here. She’s in a situation now where people could know she had an abortion at age fifteen before they’ve even met her and gotten to know her. She’s in a situation where her peers could find out about this and mercilessly harass her. Fifteen-year-old girls have enough problems in life without the stories of their abortions living on forever on the Internet.

            I think what saddens me most about your story is that all of it was so avoidable. Your daughter could have easily avoided having sex. You and your family seem to know a lot about raising kids under adverse circumstances, and you could have pulled together and helped raise this baby. Your daughter could have placed the baby with a great family who would be thankful every day that she did so. You could all be welcoming this baby as a loved addition to your family. No one had to die. This didn’t have to be a win-lose situation. Your daughter gets that this was a person, and that’s why she named the baby. Now the baby is a dead baby that she can never get back. That’s a tragedy, and the biggest tragedy of all might be that you don’t understand what a tragedy it is.

          • Laurie Bertram Roberts

            Once again you are deflecting from what I wrote but I’m not surprised. That’s fine.
            You do realize her abortion story being online and people being cruel wouldn’t be a problem if not for people like those on this page. No one but people on your side have sent nasty messages to my daughter not people in our neighborhood not the people she works for. No one.
            I love that you are trying to say she should be silent because of the shaming and judgment of people like you. That is classic. It’s like saying would be like the 9/11 hi jackers saying people shouldn’t fly because you know terrorists.

            Quick question does this same concern apply for using women’s real names on I regret my abortion stories because I see names and pictures on those all the time. So it’s ok for your employers and the world to know you’ve had an abortion as long as you are sorry and feel horrible? Otherwise it’s harmful to say in public. Y’all need to have a meeting about all these inconsistencies.

          • Calvin Freiburger

            “No one but people on your side have sent nasty messages to my daughter not people in our neighborhood not the people she works for. No one.”

            Soooo……..nobody who doesn’t oppose abortion criticized a story about having an abortion. Now there’s a real profound statement!

          • Marauder

            My comment about you and your daughter putting her story on the Internet wasn’t about shaming, it was about whether a fifteen-year-old understands the ramifications of putting something on the Internet where it’ll live forever. Most women who write online under their real names about their abortion experiences are adults. That’s their decision to make. There are stories in the news all the time about teenagers who posted something about themselves on the Internet and had it come back to haunt them in ways they never expected. They don’t anticipate that happening because they’re kids. You’re your daughter’s mother and your role is to take care of her and look out for her best interests. That’s a big chunk of the problem here. You’re acting like she’s a grown woman, and she’s not a grown woman.

            I’m glad no one who knows your daughter is harassing her about this, but that potential is going to live on as long as her story lives on online. Harassment aside, wouldn’t you want someone Googling your daughter to know about a hundred other things about her before they know she had an abortion? Wouldn’t you want them to know who she is as a person first?

          • Laurie Bertram Roberts

            You are kind of missing the point she has nothing to be ashamed about. The fact that you keep saying don’t you want people not to know about her abortion is shaming. t’s saying she should be ashamed that it has to be a secret because she did something wrong. She didn’t do anything wrong in choosing abortion. If she had chose adoption should we have hid that? If she would have parented should she have hid that and walked in shame? Anyway those are choices you approve of. As such you would be ok with her being all over this site at 15 talking about those two things even though those stories too would be “forever”. Do you really think with as accomplished as my child is that this is all that will be online about her?

            Stop with the fake “I’m glad no one is harassing her” No you aren’t You have been going right along with the people on this page who have attacked her and I. I haven’t seen you say anything against the vile things posted about her on this page. You aren’t willing to stand up to people on your own side. You are right here with them. It is easy to be a bully from behind a computer screen. So excuse me if I don’t believe you.

          • Laurie Bertram Roberts

            My daughter has nothing to be ashamed of that is the point you are missing. She didn’t post naked pictures she had a medical procedure.

          • Laurie Bertram Roberts

            Sorry I was blocked apparently but I want to answer you if someone is judging my daughter because she had an abortion that speaks about them not her. The people who would do that are people like you. So this is only an issue because of people like you. This is the same argument use dto tell LGBTQ people to stay in the closet. It makes people uncomfortable, can’t you just stay quiet what about once people know, what about the dangers of people knowing.
            My daughter didn’t break any laws she did nothing wrong she has nothing to be ashamed off. When she asked to speak out I warned her about the backlash about the ugly people like those on here she still wanted to speak.

    • Mary Lee

      Nobody is shaming your daughter. The author is criticizing YOU.

      We just think it’s sad that you gladly helped dismember your own grandson or granddaughter. We think it’s sad that you have no idea what the pro-life movement is actually about. You’re defensive because you HAVE to justify this act, you NEED it to be okay. It’s not okay. But please, go along with your excuses, slogans, and watchwords. Your grandchild’s life was sacrificed for them. Congratulations.

      • alidefender

        Not everyone, in fact only a small minority believe as you do that a life begins at conception. You state your beliefs as though they are fact. They are not. Not scientific fact! Even in the bible, Life begins at breath. It wasn’t until the conservative politicians and the evangelicals got together that the life begins at conception movement got rolling. You’ve been had and spouting this nonsense only makes you look ignorant and nasty. It is not any of your business what a woman chooses to do with her body. Your opinions don’t matter in anyone else’s decision.

        • Marauder

          It’s a scientific fact that a new life is created at conception. A zygote/embryo/fetus has different DNA than either parent and is growing. If astronauts discovered a being on Mars that had DNA and was growing, all the headlines would be screaming about life found on Mars.

        • Beverly Harlton

          It is, however, society’s business when a woman chooses to have her child murdered. If that makes me look ignorant and nasty, I’m totally ok with that.

          • alidefender

            This is back to beliefs… Not murder. Not a “baby”.

        • Mary Lee

          No, scientists believe life begins at conception. It’s not a BELIEF. It has been established. Many pro-aborts have admitted to this, and admitted to the humanity of the unborn babies.

          This isn’t about “beliefs.” This is about science and ethics. This isn’t about a “woman’s body.” Her body is not the one being pureed. Her child is not property, he or she is not a parasite, and he or she has a right to live. There is no other way around it. Abortion kills a son or daughter. That is not a right. It never was.

          • alidefender

            really, got some facts to back that up?

          • PrincessJasmine4

            “Human development begins at fertilization, the process during which a male gamete or sperm (spermatozoo developmentn) unites with a female gamete or oocyte (ovum) to form a single cell called a zygote. This highly specialized, totipotent cell marked the beginning of each of us as a unique individual.”

            “A zygote is the beginning of a new human being (i.e., an embryo).”

            Keith L. Moore, The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology, 7th edition. Philadelphia, PA: Saunders, 2003. pp. 16, 2.

          • alidefender

            “The beginning” I would think is the key there. Still not backing up your claim.

          • PrincessJasmine4

            “[The zygote], formed by the union of an oocyte and a sperm, is the beginning of a new human being.”

            Keith L. Moore, Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology, 7th edition. Philadelphia, PA: Saunders, 2008. p. 2.

            “Although life is a continuous process, fertilization (which, incidentally, is not a ‘moment’) is a critical landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new genetically distinct human organism is formed when the chromosomes of the male and female pronuclei blend in
            the oocyte.”

            Ronan O’Rahilly and Fabiola Müller, Human Embryology and Teratology, 3rd edition. New York: Wiley-Liss, 2001. p. 8.

            “The term conception refers to the union of the male and female pronuclear elements of procreation from which a new living being develops.”

            “The zygote thus formed represents the beginning of a new life.”

            J.P. Greenhill and E.A. Friedman, Biological Principles and Modern Practice of Obstetrics. Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders, 1974. pp. 17, 23.

            http://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/embryoquotes2.html

          • Mary Lee

            Yes. It’s called “Biology.” Pick up a biology book. Go to a high school and ask to look through it.

            I’m sorry you’re so against science. It must be difficult for you.

          • OntogenyRecapitulatesPhylogeny

            Right after conception the zygote begins to divide and grow. 2 cells, 4 cells, 8 cells. This is while it descends down the Fallopian tube for 8 days before it implants in the uterine wall. So basically you have this free-standing, unattached organism growing all by itself from a single cell into a differentiated blastocyst of about 70-100 cells. Is it your position that unicellular or multicellular organisms cannot be alive?

          • ThePaganProLifer

            Really? So cookies won’t fall from the sky if I want them to? Bummer. :,(

          • Mary Lee

            Or, in my case…french fries.

        • Stormii

          Wow apparently we’re the bible thumpers yet this “enlightened” person is trying to pass of the Bible as factual scientifically information. Excuse me while I laugh hysterically.

      • ThePaganProLifer

        Mary Lee you are awesome :) really, you seem cool.

        • Mary Lee

          Thank you. I really appreciate it.

          I’ve got a big day today! People are pouring in…..
          Take care, my fellow pro-lifers, and even those whom I have pissed off.

        • JDC

          How could anyone give this a down vote? She is awesome!

        • JDC

          How could anyone give this a down vote? She is awesome!

          • Mary Lee

            I down-voted myself! Because according to Sheryl, who knows the depths of my soul or something, I feel shame and also I am ignorant and uneducated!

            Pffft.

            Okay, break’s over. ……Back to the grindstone. (I just had coffee for lunch. And breakfast. And a snack.)

          • JDC

            I wish I had Sheryl’s powers of perception. :)

          • PrincessJasmine4

            bwhahahahahaha

      • Laurie Bertram Roberts

        I was part of the pro life movement I am very aware of what you’re about

        • Mary Lee

          I was pro-choice, so I know what you’re talking about, too.

      • jhd

        YOU GO, MARY!!!! <3 XXXX

    • Beverly Harlton

      Maybe you should check out some of the articles on this site that praise teen moms who choose to have their babies despite pressure from their families and/or boyfriends to have abortions. We’re not about shaming, here. If you read that a person had filed for bankruptcy because of a series of poor financial choices, would pointing them out be “shaming” that person, or would it be helping that person understand his or her mistakes and helping him/her and others avoid them in the future?

      In my albeit limited experience, those who rail the most about “shaming” do so because they are engaging in shameful activity. If everything were on the up and up, I don’t think they would be so vocal in their opposition.

      • Laurie Bertram Roberts

        If my daughter and I were ashamed we wouldn’t be in public using our real names and pictures. So try again. -logicfail

        • Marauder

          Engaging in shameful activity =/= being ashamed.

          • alidefender

            Wrong. What you consider shameful is your own business. What I consider shameful is mine. Not your call on deciding whether my activity is shameful or not. If my activity causes me shame, then I’ll be ashamed. Your opinion has nothing to do with me.

          • Marauder

            So if someone, say, holds a little girl hostage for years and rapes her every day, no one has a right to say that that’s shameful?

    • nonce37

      “She and I have spoken for ourselves and yet as usual you have decided to come in and TELL black women how we SHOULD feel rather than listen to how we DO FEEL.”

      When, for example, Fred and Rose West http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_West decided to murder their daughter in 1987, most people would agree that they SHOULD have felt sufficient shame and revulsion at the idea to decide not to do it, although of course this was not how they DID FEEL. Do you believe that those people are wrong to ‘impose’ this judgement about how the Wests should have felt?

      “I love the hypocrisy of your movement because either way you would have shamed my daughter.

      You would have shamed her if she had remained pregnant for her sexual choices (as you just did) and you are shaming her for having an abortion.”

      Let us assume for the sake of argument that this is entirely accurate. (While in fact it’s not entirely fair, it certainly has an element of truth to it. It is indeed unfortunate, and somewhat telling, that anti-abortion voices are so regularly unable to resist hashing over wider issues of contraception and sexual morality when the topic is supposed to be abortion.) Let’s assume that the anti-abortion movement is composed entirely of sneering ogres and foolish moral prudes who consistently mistreat and look down on a single mother. How would this make it morally acceptable for you to dismember your granddaughter?

      • Laurie Bertram Roberts

        WOW so now I had a granddaughter? Considering my daughter was only 6-7 weeks pregnant the embryo would likely have been genderless. My daughter chose to assign it a gender (that’s her right).
        My point had nothing to do with changing your view on the morality of abortion. Just pointing out the authors hypocrisy.
        Yes many in the pro life movement look down on poor single mothers especially if they are black. If you deny it either you aren’t paying attention or you’re a liar.
        I wasn’t always pro choice. I grew up in a pro life family I have said all the judgey now-I-can-feel-better-than-you stuff y’all are hurling at me now which is why I don’t care.

        • Stormii

          How old are you? I’m 16, only a year older than your daughter and since I’m pro-life (anti-choice, forced birther, call me whatever suits your fancy, really – I mean that) I educate myself on embryo and fetal development and I know – look it up if you don’t believe me – that gender is decided at conception. I would think someone who is older and knows a bit about abortion at least know the basics of fetal development. Or are you comfortable pulling your ears and singing a tune, ignoring all the facts? That’s fine, your choice really.

          I can’t believe you have the balls call us judgey when your…look at that…judging us! Damn. I’m a black girl are you saying I’m in the wrong movement because I don’t fit your nice little square box you pushed us into? Nice…real nice.

          • Laurie Bertram Roberts

            Nice try but I wasn’t talking to you was I? You can be in this “movement” all you want. Your choice not mine. Gender is NOT defined at “conception” because sexual organs are not defined yet.

            Gender is more than just chromosomes-definition the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones).

            Conception isn’t even a medical term. So before you try to come on here and school me work on your google skills my 13 y/o could take your post apart but she’s busy.

            So seriously it’s been fun playing with y’all but my seven kids have schoolwork to do.

          • Stormii

            Sexual organs aren’t the only thing that makes a gender. I’m using biological ones, so there’s that. Yes it is, where the hell have you been? If conception isn’t a medical term what should I use? “The time where your daughter got knocked-up” Is that better? By the way, Google would be a step up from your Planned Parenthood pamphlets. I get education – you get bullshit. If your thirteen year can take this apart, why can’t you? Seems like common sense skipped a generation, or maybe you overestimate your children.

            Sad, your leaving? And I was having so much fun! Sadly, my parents doomed me to homeschooling when I had “issues” with the other kids during my Freshman and Sophomore year so the closest I get to fighting now-a-days is with people half as crazy as I am on the internet. How I miss the public school system, you should know how fun it is. You were probably stuck in it for twenty something years. Lucky.

          • Laurie Bertram Roberts

            The word is fertilization. I don’t work or volunteer at PP. It’s spelled you’re not your.
            Thanks for your cursing and insults. They speak to who you are not me.

          • Stormii

            Stop being a Grammar Nazi, it’s unbecoming. And annoying as hell. (I know, I really shouldn’t be talking.)

            I’m using curses because I’m hoping one word would get through that skull of yours, whatever it may find inside. The insults though, they are just for my amusement. Sorry, your in the crossfire. By the way, I’d love for you to bring you’re (I’m saying this to piss you off) 13 year old here. Since she/he can take this apart, I’d love to see him/her try. Maybe I can get into a real argument instead of one with a obvious Pro-Abort bot.

          • Laurie Bertram Roberts

            I am correcting your grammar because it’s kind of silly to rail about how stupid someone is and you can’t proofread.

          • ThePaganProLifer

            “13y/o” I rest my case.

          • JoeWetterling

            Laurie, sexual organs do not define sex. They are a physical manifestation. If a man loses his external genitalia, he doesn’t suddenly lose a Y chromosome.

            It does work the other way, however — if he has a Y chromosome, he will have male genitalia (baring some medical abnormality, of course).

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_sex-determination_system

          • Laurie Bertram Roberts

            That was kind of my point that gender isn’t fully defined at fertilization since socialization of gender is defined by genitals. I went to fast on that one huh? Also Wikipedia is not an acceptable science resource.

          • Laurie

            You’re confused and a subject of pro-abortion propaganda.

            “At conception, gender is determined by chromosome characteristics – and it will be the male
            (or rather the male’s sperm) that dictates whether the baby will be a boy or a girl.

            Prior to conception, the unfertilized egg carries an X chromosome while the sperm can carry either an X or a Y chromosome. The gender of the baby comes down to one simple event:

            If the sperm carrying an X chromosome fertilizes the egg, a girl will be conceived.

            If the sperm carrying a Y chromosome fertilizes the egg, a boy will be conceived.”
            MORE: http://www.baby2see.com/gender/boy_or_girl.html

          • JoeWetterling

            There may also be a language issue causing problems here. For example, consider the caption on this image of a 6-week fetus: http://news.softpedia.com/newsImage/The-Gender-of-a-Child-Determined-at-6-Weeks-of-Pregnancy-2.jpg/ (or just look at the image name). The gender… *determined* at 6 weeks. That seems pretty clear — before six weeks, the baby has no gender! Except, that’s equivocating on the use of “determined” in the phrase.

            Let’s say I break a dish while washing after dinner. I decide to cover it up and blame the cat. My wife does some investigating and *determines* that I must have broken it (maybe the cat was with her all night). Before she “determined” what happened, I still had broken the dish. She was simply discovering it for herself. That is the use of “determine” here — and the word itself doesn’t make that at all clear. It could be terribly easy to take that to mean “achieved” rather than “discovered”. The baby’s sex may be SEEN at six weeks. It is manifest not created at that time. I wonder if anyone has been tripped up by that difference?

          • JoeWetterling

            Of course, Laurie, I wasn’t putting the wikipedia reference forward as a final scientific resource; rather, I was responding, indirectly, to your suggestion to go and Google it. I did, and the very first hit was rather clear.

            Scientific articles on the subject abound. For example, Drs. Hake and O’Connor are quite clear in their 2008 article:
            “In placental mammals, the presence of a Y chromosome determines sex.” (http://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/genetic-mechanisms-of-sex-determination-314)

            Schafer and Goodfellow, of Cambridge, wrote that “(i)n mammals, the Y chromosome induces testis formation and thus male sexual development; in the absence of a Y chromosome, gonads differentiate into ovaries and female development ensues.” (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8976152)

            Socialization effects *perception* of gender. If you teach your daughter she is a boy, she may think she’s a boy, but if you test her blood, you’re not going to find a Y chromosome. You’re not going to find testes. She’s not going to father children through spermatozoa.

            —–

            The need to define sex differently seems obvious to me. If I cut off a part of my body, that part is not “male”, per se. It is just an arm or a leg or an eye. The whole me is a man. It seems odd to call any clump of cells male or female; if its a girl, then its a human baby girl. Covering up biological sex is a depersonalizing act, as surely as calling some *thing* male or female (saying of your car “she’s broken down”) is a humanizing (anthropomorphizing) act.

          • Laurie Bertram Roberts

            My statement was clear and I don’t need a science lesson but thanks anyway. I get that y’all have this thing about being right and appearing smarter but in case you aren’t paying attention I pretty much posted exactly that in far less words hours ago. But hey some people need lots of words to feel important.
            Y’all were coming from a premise of using terminology wrong
            Sex = male and female
            Gender = masculine and feminine
            I had decided not to bother to give a big ole vocab lesson and stick with the simplicity of using gender for the sake of those posting who didn’t seem to understand the difference.

          • JoeWetterling

            I thought being right and smart were good things? I think we all want to be right — the question is in finding what is right (not preferable or comfortable or nice, but right) and going with it. We’ve said things that can’t both be right, so one of us is right and the other is wrong. That’s just how it works.

            Gender is masculine and feminine. That’s fine — and I agree. Nouns in some languages have gender (like el gato, for “the cat” in Spanish; grammatically, cats are male in that language). No argument from me there.
            And people can act masculine or feminine. I cook a mean pasta sauce, and some people would consider cooking a feminine trait. By that definition, we all have masculine and feminine aspects.

            But we’re not talking about gender. A name may sound masculine or feminine. A baby is either male or female. So, yes, your daughter gave the baby a feminine sounding name — a name of feminine gender. That does nothing to change that the baby him- or herself had not a gender but a sex. That’s what those articles demonstrated.

            I haven’t tried to appear smarter. I only posted journal articles when you said wikipedia wasn’t good enough. I got into the specifics of language when it was necessary. However, you haven’t engaged the arguments I’ve made, you’ve just attacked how I sound and said how you can’t be bothered to give a response.

          • Laurie Bertram Roberts

            Please read previous response the answer is there grasshopper :)

          • ThePaganProLifer

            “13y/o?” yes, we are the ignorant ones…. Oh and conception is not a medical term; it’s a biological one. Have a good day.

          • KelBel

            Busy doing what? creating another baby to be born? Obviously you are even more uneducated than those you believe aren’t educated ENOUGH in sex. You who instructs women to kill their babies do not even know the basics about the formation of the human body. I find that appalling. Chromosomes determine who we are. They make up our DNA. They tell the body what hormones to release during formation, which in turn determines our genitalia. I’ve learned that last year in my advanced biology classes in a secular college, so there is no way that you can say the curriculum is biased. Now of course there is the issue where the gender is ambiguous, but that’s neither here nor there. Now I see how the people of your movement are able to deceive so many women. “It’s genderless” “The soul will move on, you’re only preventing it from being born NOW”. Your daughter may have CHOSE that route on her own, but you brainwashed her to believe that was the right one. And it is clear that by your attitude you’re the type that believes that your way is the only way. Maybe if you were treated with the same respect that you treat those innocent babies, and your innocent grandchild, you’d change your mind.

          • Kathryn A. O’Keefe

            I’m pretty sure that if “conception” shows up on every medical terminology website that I just scoured for it, and also in a college level Medical Terminology text book, it’s considered a medical term.

            Also, the sex of a person is defined by chromosomes, so from the moment of conception, the sexual organs that develop will have already been set in place, so for all intents and purposes, embryos have a particular sex.

          • Laurie Bertram Roberts

            catch up the word that was used was GENDER

          • Kathryn A. O’Keefe

            Yeah, I noted that, and you’re correct in that it was improper usage of the word. I’m using the word “sex” because 1) that was the word that should’ve been used by the original poster, and 2) because you said that sexual organs aren’t defined at conception, although they’re not going to change, so the point doesn’t seem to be particularly useful, I just wanted to point out that it doesn’t really matter whether or not the sexual organs are developed yet, because what they’re going to be is defined by the chromosomes.

            On a side note, Merriam-Webster now recognizes a secondary definition of “gender” to be “sex,” so the fact that “gender” is typically used in reference to social and psychological differences between males and females, it can also be used to reference the biological differences as well.

          • Myles Ray

            The zygote does receive the sex chromosomes at conception, but a fetus does develop into male or female forms until about a month later. At six weeks all fetuses have a genital tuber. Stormi, you are confusing sex and gender.

          • Sheryl Conerly

            No, she’s saying that you have a right to your beliefs, just as the rest of us and that no one has the right to force or decide what is best for our own bodies except ourselves.

          • Tonya

            It is well known that the abortion lobby has its roots in the racist mindset (Margaret Sanger). You, my dear, are considered a weed that needs to be exterminated. Margaret Sanger spoke before the KKK and Margaret Sanger founded Planned Parenthood. It’s no coincidence that the slaughterhouses are positioned primarily in urban, poor areas. It’s absolutely sick and they get away with saying they “care” about you. Despicable.

        • JoeWetterling

          Sex is fixed at the moment of conception. Your daughter did not assign it a gender. She guessed, yes, but there is either a boy or girl that was in her womb. (And it was not her “right” — life is a right, guessing sex isn’t.) That’s not up for debate — that’s basic genetics. At the moment of conception, the genetic material from the father either brings in an X or a Y chromosome.

          Second, it was an embryo. That’s a stage of development. A stage of the development of what? A human child. That is also a fact.
          The baby wasn’t a cow or a dog; it was human. It wasn’t part of your daughter, as the baby had distinct DNA. It wasn’t a parasite, by definition. So what was it? A human.

          Unborn, yes. But a human. The human child of your human child, which makes it your grandchild.

          • ThePaganProLifer

            All I can say is logic!- you have it :)

          • Sheryl Conerly

            Excuse me, sir….what is a hermaphrodite?

          • Kathryn A. O’Keefe

            Irrelevant, human hermaphrodites are exceptionally rare. The basic biology in Joe’s comment is correct, on average. The likelihood of the embryo in question being a hermaphrodite is infinitesimal.

          • Sheryl Conerly

            The fact that it happens at all makes it relevant. Who are you to decide if it’s relevant or not?? Rarity doesn’t make something irrelevant. That is incredibly ignorant of you but hardly surprising.

          • Kathryn A. O’Keefe

            In that it is so rare as to be irrelevant in the case of the discussion as a basis to make Joe’s comment void. His biology is correct in a vast majority of cases, and the likelihood of his being wrong is so small as to make your point irrelevant as a valid argument against his, unless you have proof of the fetus in question being a hermaphrodite.

            Rarity can make some things irrelevant, or of such little value as to be irrelevant for the purposes of a discussion.

          • Tonya

            Anything to avoid admitting that a pro-lifer is right. That’s the whole premise of their argument….finding.the 1 in 1,000,000,000 circumstance and applying it to everyone.

          • JoeWetterling

            In the case of humans, we could be talking about someone that appears hermaphroditic – where the external organs are ambiguous. In those cases, the underlying genetics are still clear.
            We also could be talking about true hermaphrodites – children with both XY and XX pairs. In that case, they do possess the basis for both sexes. This is an abnormality — a malformation, perhaps during early cell division — and falls into the same category as other malformations. That is, it is not normative. (e.g. Some children are born with a missing arm; nonetheless, we don’t consider one-armedness to be a normal human trait.)

            (And, to be complete, there are other forms of hermaphroditism found in other animals. Humans do not exhibit simultaneous hermaphroditism like earthworms, nor sequential, like clownfish.)

          • Tonya

            Other animals? See there it is in a nutshell….we humans are just part of the animal kingdom in their minds. There lies the problem.

          • Tonya

            Basic Biology is never a pro-abort’s strong point.

          • jhd

            Amen!!

        • nonce37

          I beg your pardon, I wasn’t reading carefully enough. Nonetheless, I think it would be reasonable enough to say that your grandchild already had *a* sex, whether it was male or female, if only because of his or her XX or XY sex chromosomes.

          “Yes many in the pro life movement look down on poor single mothers especially if they are black. If you deny it either you aren’t paying attention or you’re a liar.”

          Again I’m willing to take this as a given, but I’m not sure where you’re going with it. Is the argument that anti-abortionists are unhelpful and judgemental, therefore they are the Bad Guys, therefore the pro-abortionists must be the Good Guys, therefore abortion is OK? Or that anti-abortionists are unhelpful and judgemental, therefore neither keeping the child nor sending it for adoption would have served your daughter’s interests better than abortion, therefore dismembering your grandchild was OK? I don’t think that either argument stands up, even if the first premise is correct.

        • Tonya

          Maybe you aren’t aware but many, many of us volunteer and love on these same women you say we judge at our local crisis pregnancy centers. By the way, why didn’t you encourage your child to give her child up for adoption instead of killing him/her?

          • Laurie Bertram Roberts

            Volunteering to help the same women you judge doesn’t absolve you from judging them.
            Did you read my post? I gave my daughter ALL her options. That included adoption. She chose not to make that choice. I am not sure what y’all don’t understand about not wanting to be pregnant and giving birth ARE NOT the same thing!
            If a woman wants to have an abortion telling her to choose adoption doesn’t solve the problem of her wanting to no longer be pregnant.

          • Tonya

            Was your daughter raped?

          • Calvin Freiburger

            1.) What’s wrong with judging?

            2.) You’re dodging. None of us deny the hardships of giving birth, but it’s the option that ends a pregnancy without murdering anyone — regardless of what anyone “wants” or “chooses.”

    • Kylee

      Laurie, as a pro-life person, I want to apologize if you feel attacked or offended. I want you to know that I am in no way shaming you or judging you or telling you how you should feel (or your daughter). I want you to know that I wouldn’t have shamed your daughter for being pregnant. I wouldn’t have shamed her for her sexual choices nor would I have shamed you for educating her about sex. I can’t say I agree with some of the choices you have made, or with some stances you take, but I can’t judge you and I won’t. That’s the beauty of true Christian fellowship: it’s a bunch of people who ALL have made mistakes, helping each other grow in Christ. I just want you to know that there are people out there who would have supported your daughter and will continue to do so if she ever needs it. I wish people who feel like I do would have been more accessible before she made her decision. I’m truly sorry. My heart weeps for you and I’ll pray for. The Lord loves you so I know that truth, love and healing is in your future. God Bless.

      • Laurie Bertram Roberts

        While I don’t think my daughter made a mistake choosing abortion nor do I think she needs healing. I do agree we all have room for growth. We have all been young and not thought something all the way through (many can’t do that as adults).
        I appreciate your comment as I know it is genuine, thank you.

  • Laurie Bertram Roberts

    You obviously can’t read either because that’s not the clinic’s blog and it says so explicitly it’s maintained by the clinic escorts who are volunteers.

  • PamelaWatters

    What a sanctimonious, judgemental creep this author is. ….because “good little girls” that are taught abstinence only, never get pregnant. *eyeroll*

    I am a clinic escort in another red state. You would be amazed how many cars with “choose life” tags come to our full service women’s clinic that includes abortion as an option. Oh, I forget, it’s different when it’s their unwanted pregnancy.

    http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/07/20/report-proves-that-comprehensive-sex-ed-not-abstinence-only-reduces-teen-pregnancy-rate/

    • Mary Lee

      *YAWN*

      • Sarah Wellan

        To: Kristen Hatten (the author of this article), Mary Lee, Marauder, Joe Wetterling, Calvin Freiburger, Beverly Harlton, and the other people who have commented on this blog post, using a sarcastic tone, or made snide jokes related to the issue of a young girl choosing to have an abortion –

        – Whether you are a secular pro-life believer (as I think you said you are, Mary Lee) or are a religious person (Christian, other religion or spiritual), as I think some of the other commenter likely are, I think that we all need to remember our own decency here.

        – Don’t we all believe in decency?

        – I don’t know if the author of this article, Kristen Hatten is Christian or not, but when I see that Kristen is using a Nazi reference as part of an article about a young girl/child who had an abortion (subtley comparing either the mother, Kayla, or both to Nazis) — and when I see Kristen is opening mocking Kayla’s mother, Laurie, by insulting her and derisively and sarcastically calling Laurie “Mom of the Year” — and saying things that drip with mean-spirited sarcasm like “Where’s my shocked face?” –
        I think that we all need to remember that we are talking about a young girl — a child – who recently had an abortion and just went through a difficult and likely emotionally painful experience
        — and yet some people think it’s justified and ok to make jokes about this?

        – No matter what side of the fence one is on idealogically, I think it’s fair to say that Kayla’s experience was NOT an easy situation for her, and was more likely a very difficult situation for her, and I think may have been quite emotionally painful experience for Kayla — yet I’m hearing people making jokes about “cookies” and “French fries” falling from the sky and “yawning” like this whole situation is one big joke or boring them…

        – I’d like to ask — how would Jesus would want us to behave towards Kayla and her mother — how Jesus would want us to treat Kayla and her mother, Laurie?

        – I think Jesus would want us to treat both of them would with compassion, love, and understanding — not compare them to Nazis, make jokes about Kayla’s difficult experience, laugh, and make sarcastic and cruel remarks towards either of them, or say they disgust us, etc.

        – I don’t think it’s very Christian to hurl insults at the mother, Laurie, or speak sarcastically to her, or indirectly call her a “murderer” by saying that she “helped her daughter murder a baby,” etc.

        – For the Christians, I ask you — what do you think Jesus would have said to the mother, Laurie right now? Do you think Jesus would laugh and make jokes and be sarcastic and cruel — insult her, and call her a murderer?

        – I understand that Christians absolutely believe that abortion is murder, and perhaps those who are making jokes and attacking and insulting the mother/Laurie feel they are justified in some way to mistreat her because they believe she is a murderer according to their belief system — and it’s OK to be cruel to her because she’s a sinner or they believe she’s an evil murderer, etc.

        – But — in the Bible, when it came to people murdering Jesus — at the crucifixion when they were literally hammering nails into his feet and nails in his hands on the cross and murdering him in a cruel and torturous way — did Jesus call those people murderers and did Jesus try to hurt them with cruel words in response to their actions?

        – No, as all Christians know, Jesus was kind to the people who were murdering him — Jesus forgave them — Christ taught that we must forgive those who have wronged us and have compassion and love those that do things we think are wrong.
        Jesus taught compassion and kindness for one’s enemies and wrongdoers — and to many Christians, women or girls who have abortions are wrongdoers, murderers, etc.

        – Where is the compassion, the kindness, the love that Jesus taught, in the posts by Christians pro-life believers on this thread?

        – I think that the commenter named Kylee most closely embodies Jesus’ teachings of compassion, love and kindness — and I commend you, Kylee, for refraining from making cruel remarks, making jokes, etc. that I have seen others do here.

        – For those who are not Christian (such as me), then at least for decency’s sake — I think it’s important to point out that making light-hearted jokes about another person’s difficult and painful experience (* especially a child/young girl’s experience) is not the right thing to do.

        – I wonder if people are being so aggressive on this thread because they’re angry or hurt about something in their own lives, and are taking secret pleasure at having a “justified” reason to unleash hurtful, cruelty on Laurie and/or her daughter Kayla, so they can have an excuse to vent their own anger/hurt feelings, under the guise of “righteousness?”

        – As we all know, it’s possible that like most 15 year olds, Kayla surfs the internet, and what if she’s reading this comment thread — do we think it’s OK to compare a young girl to a Nazi because she had an abortion?

        – Do Christians here believe that calling those they believe are wrongdoers names, insulting them, hurting them, making jokes about their painful experiences, laughing and treating them with cruelty will help them find Jesus and do what we think is the right thing?

        – I ask the non-Christians — do you think your doing the above named thing (laughing, being cruel, making jokes about another person’s painful experience) is the right thing to do?

        – How would you feel if you were treated that way?

        – Do you think trying to hurt other people (such as the cruel and hurtful comments directed at the mother, Laurie) will change her way of thinking, beliefs, or anyone’s hearts and minds?

        – I would like to encourage all commenters here to remember their decency — and though some might say, “Why should I be decent or kind or compassionate toward someone I think is a murderer?

        – To the Christians, I’d say — because that’s what Jesus would do.

        – To the non-Christians, I’d say — it’s the right thing to do.

    • JDC

      Calling other people judgmental is in of itself judgmental. Granted, I don’t actually agree with the premise that being judgmental is a bad thing, but it’s still worth pointing out.

      • PamelaWatters

        Oh….sorry, I shouldn’t have assumed you were Christian.

        Luke 6:37
        “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

        Luke 6:41
        “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

        John 8:7
        When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stoneat her.”

        Romans 2:1
        You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.

        Romans 14:10
        You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat.

        Romans 14:13
        Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister.

        1 Corinthians 4:5
        Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God.

        • Mary Lee

          I don’t remember Jesus saying “whatever you do is okay, abortion is fine by me.”

          Nobody is condemning anyone to hell. (By the by, I’m a secular pro-lifer who has taken many theology classes.) We are calling something rotten that is rotten. There is a difference. What I don’t understand is that pro-aborts judge people CONSTANTLY, the liberal mindset is filled with victimization (of themselves) and demonization (of those who oppose them). We do not have the right to tell someone they are “doomed.” But we DO have the right to stop injustice. Pro-lifers aren’t simply saying “I don’t like abortion.” Pro-lifers know that there are many lives at stake. This is not some abstract right. Someone dies in an abortion, 100% of the time. It is the only so-called “medical” procedure in which the intent is to kill another individual.

          So, sure, if that makes us judgey, so be it. You clearly want to believe everything you do is fine, has no consequences, and the blood of babies is no big whoop. Good luck with that.

          • PamelaWatters

            I don’t remember Jesus saying “abortion is a sin” either.

            It is also noteworthy that as early as Genesis 2:7, the Bible states that life begins at birth, declaring that God “breathed into his [Adam's] nostrils the soul of life, and man became a living soul.” The verse implies that until Adam took his first breath he was not considered a living being.

            Furthermore, you can scour the Bible with a fine-toothed comb, yet you will not find any passage that describes a prohibition or penalty for a woman who chooses to terminate her pregnancy.

          • Beverly Harlton

            Adam was also made from the dust of the earth, though, and wasn’t born.

          • alidefender

            Mary Lee, you have posted names of people who have “admitted” that these are babies. Still no science to back up the claim. Still a belief.

          • Mary Lee

            I guess even many pro-aborts “believe” in biological fact.

          • Beverly Harlton

            “Baby” is not a scientific term. It is a subjective term. A pregnant woman will likely refer to the fetus in her uterus as a “baby.” A newborn is called a “baby.” A toddler might be called a “baby.” The youngest child in a family may be called the “baby” for many years. The correct terms: zygote, morula, blastocyst, embryo, fetus, infant. In this debate, those terms all describe a living, metabolizing human being with its own unique DNA. All may or may not be referred to as a “baby;” all are human, growing and developing naturally.

            Your “it’s not a baby” argument doesn’t hold water unless you believe that we suddenly swap species at birth.

          • Mary Lee

            Yeah, I’m sure Jesus would really, really approve and excuse someone ripping out their unborn child and throwing him or her into the garbage. Give me a break.

            Hey, got any more euphemisms you want to use? I’m actually LOLing at “chooses to terminate her pregnancy.” Yeah, it’s not like a baby human is brutally dismembered/pureed. All pregnancies terminate. It’s not a disease that needs to be cured. If our unborn children’s lives are not worth protecting, then none of our lives are.

          • PamelaWatters

            Just trying not to be redundant. I had already used “abortion” in that post.
            Your opinions and rules do not apply to me. Abortion is legal in this country & will remain so.

          • Mary Lee

            Slavery was legal too. I’m not sure how the legality of something means that it’s moral, ethical, or just.

            I would get ready for more and more restrictions, since the generations to follow are more pro-life than ever, and science has proven the humanity of the unborn, and logic shows that these are baby humans. I don’t think the slaughter of unborn children for the sake of convenience is going to have the longevity you believe it does.

          • PamelaWatters

            In reality an abortion ban would work the other way – women’s reproductive systems would be controlled by the government, which is far more akin to slavery.

            I think future president, Hilary Clinton, will have a few things to say about those “restrictions”.

            Abortion rates are higher in countries where the procedure is illegal and nearly half of all abortions worldwide are unsafe. Is this the future that you want?

          • Mary Lee

            Why are you guys so concerned with abortion, instead of finding out why women seek it out in the first place? You never ask “why” or “what is this procedure, and what does it do?” What causes women to feel they need to do this? You never, ever ask why. Just, abortion uber alles. That’s what it is.

            And “future president Hillary Clinton”…….Yeah, okay.

            All abortions are unsafe for the babies. And, as your side refuses to acknowledge, legal abortion is not as safe as believed, since the reporting of abortion-related deaths is falsified and obscured.

            I was (mildly) pro-choice once. Then I learned what it actually is, what it does, I learned what it looks like, and that there are other, life-affirming options. I learned that it is the least feminist thing and most self-loathing action a woman can “choose.” I believe in fixing the source of the problem, and I believe in the resources and power and resilience of women. I have been raped, I have been a single mom, I have been poor, I have been a slut. I know what abortion is. There is NOTHING good about it, and no good can ever, ever come from it. Wake up.

          • Sissy Bild

            “Mildly Pro-Choice” Now *there’s* a compelling bumper sticker. I like this.

          • PamelaWatters

            I would much prefer that women rarely have to make that choice.
            If you want to reduce the incidence of abortion, it’s root cause – unintended pregnancy” needs to be addressed by facilitating widespread access to modern contraceptives and by promoting their effective use. History has proven that “abstinence only” teaching does not work.

          • PrincessJasmine4

            yes, because that worked for this girl.

          • PamelaWatters

            Sometimes the best laid plans don’t work…but it helps…and, yes, I believe that abstinence should be taught along with comprehensive sex education.

            Teen pregnancy in New York has plunged by 27% over the last decade, new data show.

            “The dip comes as the number of teens having sex has fallen, while the proportion using birth control has gone up, according to numbers to be released by the city Health Department Sunday.

            “Two things are happening here — teens are using more contraceptives, and they’re also delaying sexual activity,” said Health Commissioner Tom Farley.

            The city has worked to make it easier for kids to get birth control — giving out condoms at schools and making birth control and the morning-after pill available in some school clinics, a sometimes controversial move.

            Farley said the numbers show that strategy is working.

            “It shows that when you make condoms and contraception available to teens, they don’t increase their likelihood of being sexually active. But they get the message that sex is risky,” he said.”

            Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/teen-pregnancy-27-nyc-report-article-1.1253933#ixzz2f4XomDwn

          • Mary Lee

            I don’t believe “abstinence only” education works. I also think whatever we’re teaching kids now isn’t working. I believe in education, wholeheartedly.

            I’m glad to hear that you would prefer that women rarely have to make that choice. That’s not sarcasm, I mean it. There are many who support abortion who feel no need to reduce the number at all.

          • PamelaWatters

            Mary Lee, I think “There are many who support abortion who feel no need to reduce the number at all.” is a misnomer. I am a women’s rights advocate & work with hundreds of pro-choice women and men. I personally don’t know one person that wouldn’t prefer pregnancy prevention rather than abortion.

            Abortion has been around for thousands of years & will remain a fact of life, whether it is legal or not.

            Women who are determined not to carry an unwanted pregnancy have always found some way to try to abort. All too often, they have resorted to dangerous, sometimes deadly methods, such as inserting knitting needles or coat hangers into the vagina and uterus, douching with dangerous solutions like lye, or swallowing strong drugs or chemicals. Anyone who researches or reads history knows this to be true.

            No matter your belief about the *right or wrong* of abortion, making it illegal or difficult to access will only hurt women….especially poor women.

          • Sheryl Conerly

            Most children aren’t taught sex education, just “abstinence only”. THAT IS the problem!

          • Sheryl Conerly

            I think there is a lot of insight into Mary Lee just by the phrase “I have been a slut”. She is slut-shaming herself Pamela. That is a huge tell.

          • Mary Lee

            No, I am not. I am not ashamed of it at all. I used that word because it’s something that always strikes a nerve with pro-aborts. Give it up, you’ve got nothing.

          • PamelaWatters

            The statement below is pure propaganda. Can you back this up with proof and statistics?

            “All abortions are unsafe for the babies. And, as your side refuses to acknowledge, legal abortion is not as safe as believed, since the reporting of abortion-related deaths is falsified and obscured.”

            And if you’re interested in the subject of how much people care about the health of pregnant women, you might be interested to know that in the United States at leasthaving an abortion is much safer than having a baby:

            OBJECTIVE: To assess the safety of abortion compared with childbirth.

            METHODS: We estimated mortality rates associated with live births and legal induced abortions in the United States in 1998-2005. We used data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s Pregnancy Mortality Surveillance System, birth certificates, and Guttmacher Institute surveys. In addition, we searched for population-based data comparing the morbidity of abortion and childbirth.

            RESULTS: The pregnancy-associated mortality rate among women who delivered live neonates was 8.8 deaths per 100,000 live births. The mortality rate related to induced abortion was 0.6 deaths per 100,000 abortions. In the one recent comparative study of pregnancy morbidity in the United States, pregnancy-related complications were more common with childbirth than with abortion.

            CONCLUSION: Legal induced abortion is markedly safer than childbirth. The risk of death associated with childbirth is approximately 14 times higher than that with abortion. Similarly, the overall morbidity associated with childbirth exceeds that with abortion.

          • Unicorn Farm

            “Why are you guys so concerned with abortion, instead of finding out why
            women seek it out in the first place? You never ask “why” or “what is
            this procedure, and what does it do?” What causes women to feel they
            need to do this? You never, ever ask why. Just, abortion uber alles.
            That’s what it is.”

            Have you EVER gone to a reproductive health site? EVER? They are covered with articles about the root causes of abortion. You just choose to pretend that we don’t care. I keep asking why I’ve never seen an article on this site that is so desperately for LIFE!/1 regarding the woeful maternity leave policies and the pitiful state of laws that govern pregnancy discrimination in this country. If I knew I’d lose my job if I had to take time off from work after having a baby, I’d have an abortion. When am I ever going to see an article about that on this site?

            Here’s an example;

            http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2013/09/16/dont-use-indias-missing-girls-to-deny-women-reproductive-rights/

            here’s another http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2013/05/01/two-legal-settlements-highlight-pervasive-problem-of-pregnancy-discrimination/

            here’s another

            http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2013/04/07/low-wage-workers-remain-vulnnerable-to-illegal-pregnancy-discrimination/

            and another….

            http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2012/07/16/going-nowhere-slow-pregnant-workers-fairness-act/

          • Sissy Bild

            I am sure the notion of Hillary as president makes their bowels churn.

          • Jeff

            “women’s reproductive systems would be controlled by the government, which is far more akin to slavery”? Seriously?!?! The government would only be telling you that you can’t kill your child not whether or not you get pregnant. You act as if the Sate send some dude over to impregnate you. NO PERSON SHOULD BE ABLE TO KILL ANY OTHER PERSON EXCEPT FOR SELF DEFENSE OR THE DEFENSE OF ANOTHER WHERE THE USE OF DEADLY FORCE IS IMMEDIATE AND NECESSARY! Whether you want a baby or not should not be the determining factor of whether someone is a person. That is a slippery slope that I don’t want to go down.

          • Frankie Addiego

            “In reality an abortion ban would work the other way – women’s reproductive systems would be controlled by the government, which is far more akin to slavery.”

            Yes, Pam: outlawing abortion means you can’t sleep, eat, work out, get a tattoo or masturbate without permission from your local Chief of Police.

            “I think future president, Hilary Clinton, will have a few things to say about those “restrictions”.”

            Then I’ll have to vote for someone else.

            “Abortion rates are higher in countries where the procedure is illegal and nearly half of all abortions worldwide are unsafe. Is this the future that you want?”

            And you have proof, right? No. And, of course if they banned abortion, that means women would just prod themselves with coat-hangers, right? Despite common sense.

            See, this is the problem with the self-styled feminists: one of their usual talking points is to accuse us of “not trusting women to make their own decisions,” but then she basically says that if abortion were illegal, women would just break the law and risk their lives with primitive abortion techniques.

            We know better. And we know that while our hands are tied now, the 20 week ban will be a step in the right direction, because it will cause people–cuz, remember, men are involved too–to think harder about the choices they make, whether it’s abortion itself, or hopping into bed in the first place.

          • Jen

            No. y’all want a twenty-week ban so women will die for the crime of having sex – and if that sex was in a long-term marriage with their husband, well, sorry, sweetie, too bad you got caught up in the slut-trap. :D

          • Frankie Addiego

            Jenny, Jenny, Jenny…

            “`(B) Subject to subparagraph (C), subparagraph (A) does not apply if–

            `(i) in reasonable medical judgment, the abortion is necessary to save the life of a pregnant woman whose life is endangered by a physical disorder, physical illness, or physical injury, including a life-endangering physical condition caused by or arising from the pregnancy itself, but not including psychological or emotional conditions; or

            `(ii) the pregnancy is the result of rape, or the result of incest against a minor, if the rape has been reported at any time prior to the abortion to an appropriate law enforcement agency, or if the incest against a minor has been reported at any time prior to the abortion to an appropriate law enforcement agency or to a government agency legally authorized to act on reports of child abuse or neglect.”

          • alidefender

            This is the crux of the matter. Just because you “believe” that a very early fetus is a “baby”, doesn’t make it so. Your beliefs being thrust upon everyone else makes you a bully. Plain and simple. Not everyone believes that same as you. Not everyone believes the same as you. That doesn’t make them wrong or you right, but by insisting that everyone else needs to believe as you do makes you a Jihadist. :-)

          • Mary Lee

            I don’t “believe” it….It’s already been admitted. Peter Singer, Richard Dawkins, Naomi Wolf, Camille Paglia….they have admitted that these are babies.

            I don’t believe everyone has to think the same way I do. I am against killing babies. The ones who are killing babies are the “Jihadists” here.

            *SARCASTIC SMILEY FACE*

          • Sissy Bild

            Okay, so then you believe ending an ectopic pregnancy is murder, right Mary? Or are you so tentative in your convictions that it isn’t always murder, in which case you have to depend on the decision of the woman and her doctor, which makes you effectively pro-choice. It’s hard pinning Mary down to a creed, she is all over the board.

          • Jennie

            A friend of mine has a friend who tried for a very long time to conceive with her husband. They finally did after they had lost hope. After going to the doctor she was told that the pregnancy was ectopic and had to be terminated in order for her to survive. They gave her a drug to kill the baby and it didn’t work so they gave it to her a second time and that time it did work. It turned out in the end that her baby was NOT ectopic, and that she had a cyst in her tube. Her baby died for nothing. Go doctors that know everything!

          • SouthernMom

            You may not believe a fetus is a baby, but whatever it is, you and everyone reading this was once one. How is it just that your mother gave you life, but you feel women are justified in taking their own babies’ (fetus’) lives? Why do women have the right to choose who lives and who dies?

          • Sheryl Conerly

            If my mother had chosen to abort my fetus, I would not have cared, being that I had never existed. It’s not really that hard to understand.

          • Sheryl Conerly

            To compare something that was done against a person’s human rights-slavery (in case, it’s too hard for you to distinguish which one I am referencing)-to something a person has the right to choose for themselves-abortion-is an incredibly ignorant and asshat thing to do.

          • Mary Lee

            No it isn’t. Abortion kills a baby human being. I’m pretty sure these babies want to live, seeing as they try to escape the abortionists’ tools. What choice do they have? These aren’t “potential” lives. These are lives with potential. Abortion isn’t about women choosing to have cosmetic surgery. It’s not a reversal of a pregnancy. It’s not reproductive. It’s destructive. When a woman is pregnant, reproduction has already taken place; she is already a mother. This is about women choosing to kill their own children. The asshattery is all on your side, Sheryl.

          • Mary Lee

            No it isn’t. Abortion kills a baby human being. I’m pretty sure these babies want to live, seeing as they try to escape the abortionists’ tools. What choice do they have? These aren’t “potential” lives. These are lives with potential. Abortion isn’t about women choosing to have cosmetic surgery. It’s not a reversal of a pregnancy. It’s not reproductive. It’s destructive. When a woman is pregnant, reproduction has already taken place; she is already a mother. This is about women choosing to kill their own children. The asshattery is all on your side, Sheryl.

          • PrincessJasmine4

            “If slavery be a sin, it is not yours. It does not rest on your
            action for its origin, on your consent for its existence. It is a common law right to property in the service of man; its origin was Divine decree.”

            —Jefferson Davis–

          • Sissy Bild

            You actually wrote “I am LOLing” Oh, wow. You are poster child canon fodder for comedy writers everywhere; a composite, of sorts.

            Here’s your chance to insert a *yawn*

            You’re welcome.

          • Mary Lee

            Do you have any actual argument, or are you here to just be an a-hole?

            Yeah, I thought so.

          • Sissy Bild

            Mary: People who agree with me = Righteous!

            People who disagree with me = A-hole.

            (Pedestrian. Angry. Myopic. Banal.)

          • PrincessJasmine4

            pot meet kettle

          • Mary Lee

            No….I don’t think people who disagree with me are a-holes. I think people who thread-stalk posters and insult them like a 13 year old girl are a-holes.

          • Sissy Bild

            Oh, pardon me. I didn’t realize you had the corner on insults here. I should have realized this; tops will be tops.
            Carry on!

          • Mary Lee

            I am “insulting” you because you have targeted me, specifically. I have answered other posters, and even disagreed with them, without calling them names.

            I will carry on, indeed. There are babies to save.

          • Guest

            Okay, fair enough, though I don’t see where I called you a “name”.

            What are your views on the termination of ectopic pregnancies?

          • Sissy Bild

            Okay, fair enough, though I don’t see where I called you a “name”; you, however, called me an A-hole, so the hypocrisy is rather entrenched.

            Question:

            What are your views on the termination of ectopic pregnancies?

          • PrincessJasmine4

            I was wondering when this red herring would pop up
            In the case of ectopic pregnancy we should take pains to save both lives
            In most cases however the child will die anyway.
            There is no pro lifer who would not want to save the life of the mother
            All pro life laws (even before 1973) make exception for this
            This is common knowledge

          • Sissy Bild

            “There is no pro-lifer who would
            not want to save the life of a mother.” Wow, you need to catch up on some reading.
            Astounding. Simply astounding. Wow….

          • PrincessJasmine4

            Ok, I’ll amend it to 99%
            Happy?

          • Sissy Bild

            No, you’re still wrong. I am going to have to request you back this up with facts, rather than a nebulous notion that this is true. When you truly believe life begins at conception. which a vast majority of pro-birth people do, then you have a serious conflict if you make exceptions. You can’t have it both ways.

          • PrincessJasmine4

            can’t have it both ways?
            You mean like when the child is wanted he or she is a baby, but when the child isn’t wanted, he or she is just a clump of cells?
            You’re right.. you can’t have that both ways.

            It’s not a conflict.
            Every effort should be made to save the lives of both the mother and the child as they are equally important.

          • Sheryl Conerly

            Nope, you’re still WAY too high with that guesstimate. Sorry.

          • Jen

            Your “common knowledge” is wrong. Abortion was ENTIRELY outlawed in every state INCLUDING in cases where the mother’s life was at risk from 1875 until 1967. Here, a link for you – and I’m guessing here, but the site name sounds a LOT like it’s not precisely pro-choice oriented.

            1967

            The first ALI-model abortion law is signed in April allowing abortion in
            cases of permanent mental or physical disability of either the child or
            mother or in cases of rape or incest. California, Oregon, and North
            Carolina pass similar laws.

            http://www.raptureready.com/time/rap31k.html

          • PamelaWatters

            Red herring? Women’s health IS the central issue!!
            There are more than 100,000 ectopic pregnancies per year in the US & that is only the ones that require surgery. Seriously, Princess???

          • PamelaWatters

            Thank you, Princess!!! You just joined the ranks of we pro-choicers….either you are anti-abortion or you ain’t. Pro-choice is just that….choices of whether to save the life of a mother, not to have an abortion or to have an abortion for any number of reasons….none of which are anyone’s business except the woman and her physician.

          • KaiaNoir

            -facepalm- Im 17 and can tell your a total dipshit. -applaudes- you and mom of the year are meant to be. If you believe in God so much, then youd know that a baby wouldnt be inside a human unless God had a plan. Great job on killing the possible doctor who cures the worlds major diseases. Kindly go crawl back into your hole and eat your fucking opinion.

          • KaiaNoir

            Ignore the god part that was from a previous post

          • Basset_Hound

            Imagine if she would have been Steve Jobs’ mother.

          • PrincessJasmine4

            You’re welcome!
            I’m actually very pro choice on many things except when it comes to taking the life another human.

            I’m also anti death penalty. With maybe and I mean maybe an exception for proven and admitted serial killers.

            However, I think keeping them alive and locked up to study them might be the better route.
            But that’s a different topic for a different forum!

          • Calvin Freiburger

            If that’s a sincere question, then you’ll be relieved to know the personhood groups are already on the record about such cases: http://liveactionnews.org/dominican-pregnancy-death-sparks-american-demagoguery-over-life-of-the-mother-cases/

          • Unicorn Farm

            Isn’t that what you do? I know you’ve done it to me…

          • Marauder

            I don’t remember Jesus saying “raping children is a sin,” but I’m pretty sure it’s still a bad thing to do.

          • Beverly Harlton

            Maybe not. Just ask Richard Dawkins. He thinks there’s nothing wrong with a bit of mild molestation…

          • PrincessJasmine4

            who cares about what Jesus said.
            He doesn’t speak for the secular pro life movement

            Please stop using religion… it’s annoying

          • anna

            I’m pretty sure thou shall not kill was pretty clear. however I don’t know how well this cover rapists and murderers but under God I’m sure this covers the innocent.

          • 12345

            How about “Thou shalt not kill” (Exodus 20:13).

          • Frankie Addiego

            Yeah. It’s not about the Bible, it’s about simple human decency. The unborn child’s humanity is self-evident. Abortion is murder.

        • PrincessJasmine4

          Please keep your stupid religion out of this.
          It’s unwanted.
          This is a civil rights issue, not religious.

          • Mary Lee

            Yeah, those pesky abolitionists were so JUDGEY about slave owners!

            Stop judging, everyone! Do whatever you want. Yaaaay! Chaos!

        • Beverly Harlton

          I don’t think you understand what judging is. If Christians were forbidden to judge, and if judging meant simply telling someone that they are doing wrong, or even that certain actions are wrong, there would be complete lawlessness. Much like today’s society, people would be running around committing all manner of heinous acts, harming themselves and others, while everyone else cowered in fear, too afraid to point out said damage to society because they’ll be accused of “judging.” Because of this fear, many commit the acts in ignorance, not understanding why or how it could be wrong, maybe not even believing that “wrong” exists.

          There is a tremendous difference between judging and fraternal correction. Fraternal correction is to tell a person that they are engaging in harmful behaviour, whether towards themselves or others. It is not much different from telling a child not to hit others. You aren’t “judging” that child. Fraternal correction can also mean to point out that an action is wrong. We have laws; pointing out a law is not “judging.”

          To judge is to condemn a person to hell or to cast aspersions on their character. That is not our place as human beings. Only God may judge, and only He knows the character of our hearts. If you do not believe in God, you could say that we only know what is in our own hearts and minds; therefore, it is not our place to decide who is or is not a bad person.

          • Sissy Bild

            Mary tends to drop out when the weight of complexity and critical thinking requirements prove too much for her. She is very much a ding-dong ditch kind of person.

          • Beverly Harlton

            Your point? I was replying to Pamela, not Mary, and my reply has nothing to do with Mary.

          • Sissy Bild

            I wasn’t talking to you. Pardon the intrusion, carry on. Although, I couldn’t help but snicker at your condescending statement concerning Pam not knowing what judging is. {chortle}

          • Mary Lee

            I’m sorry—I actually have a job, and I was working on presentations for my supervisor.

            If you want to see my critical thinking, just click on my username and read all my posts. I have an actual job. I’ve got two deadlines today.

            Take care.

        • Kylee

          Pamela, you are correct that Christians are not to judge and it’s very encouraging to see how well versed you are in the bible! However, we are also told in Proverbs 24:11-12 “Rescue those being led away to death; hold back those staggering toward slaughter. If you say, “But we knew nothing about this,” does not he who weighs the heart perceive it? Does not he who guard your life know it? Will he not repay everyone according to what they have done?” We are not to judge other people according to their sin, but that does not mean we are to turn a blind eye to it; there are ignorant souls and innocent lives at stake. It is our Christian duty to spread God’s truth even when it offends others. This author is doing her duty. The Lord loves you, Pamela, and He loves your passion to help women and how much you care. He loves you so much that I know someday you’ll really hear the truth and you’ll be fighting on the winning side.

        • Elise77

          Yep. I’m gonna go kill someone who’s inconvenient to me, because I’m sure the judge will accept the “judge not” defense.

          A hundred years or so ago in this country, there were “Christian” people who owned other people and made them work uncompensated. I guess the “judge not” defense worked for them, too? After all, they didn’t think that the “negro” slaves were people, either. Because what you think or feel is ultimately veracity, right? You think it’s a baby- VOILA! It’s a baby! You think it’s a disposable blob of tissue – VOILA! It’s a disposable blob of tissue. You think it’s a spirit that’s yours to discard and “send” to “a woman who is ready” for it- VOILA! It’s a tiny baby spirit. There is no truth but your truth.

          Unless it’s someone else’s truth.
          The truth of the baby is that it was pulverized and sucked into a jar.

          Everyone has a truth. Especially the victim.

        • Karen

          The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, 1 Corinthians 2:15

          • Karen

            You do not have a proper understanding of what it means to judge. If we didn’t judge we would not be able to discern right from wrong.

    • Beverly Harlton

      Pamela, if the clinic is a full service clinic, how do you know that those who arrived in cars with pro-life stickers are there for abortions? Might they not be there for contraception or a Pap smear? Not every person who is against abortion is against all of the other services your clinic provides, and it’s possible that they wouldn’t mind going there despite knowing that abortions take place there.

      Maybe you do know these things as an escort, or maybe you don’t. That in itself doesn’t matter. I do feel that your comment is misleading and should have more information so we can get the whole picture.

      • PrincessJasmine4

        Stop with the reason and logic, you’re going to make their heads explode

        • Beverly Harlton

          Sorry, I’m engaged to a Vulcan. It kinda rubs off.

      • PamelaWatters

        Beverly, this is a private clinic & the only clinic in North Alabama that includes pregnancy termination in their services.

        Certainly, if it were a Planned Parenthood facility, it would be used by many young women because of the low cost services. That is not the case here.

        No anti-abortion person would go there for STD testing, a pap smear or birth control.

        • Beverly Harlton

          Thank you for the extra information, Pamela. :) I can’t tell you how many times I’ve asked for more info and just been insulted or ignored. I know we’re on very different sides of the issue, but I feel like we’ll never get anywhere if we (and I do mean both sides here; I’ve seen some very misleading pro-life articles, too) if we’re always hiding information to make a point.

        • PrincessJasmine4

          How many other clinics that provide birth control and paps smears are within a 50 mile radius.

          I’ve never been there, so I don’t know.

    • Sissy Bild

      Mary evidently doesn’t have a salient response as indicated by her oft-implemnted usage of “YAWN”. Yawn is code for: “I can’t concoct a cogent response, so I’ll take the easy way out.” It is doubtful she read your link as it would surely collide with her narrow mindset and blow some cerebral fuses.

      • Mary Lee

        I’m very flattered that you have such a bee in your bonnet about me. You have shown that you have no intellectual capacity beyond insulting one poster you clearly dislike. How Mean Girls of you!

        • Sissy Bild

          Just point out that “YAWN” is an intellectual cop-out, but you’re right, let’s move on. I posted a question about ectopic pregnancy termination with respect to how the forced-birth camp views it.

          • Stormii

            With respect I’ll answer it. Ectopic pregnancy needs to be aborted for the mere fact that the fetus can’t survive, technology isn’t advanced yet and therefore it will only kill both if the pregnancy is continued. It’s not about abortion, its’ about the likely hood of survival. If the forced-dismemberment camp was trying to back us into a corner they better come up with some new material.

          • Jen

            GREAT answer, Stormii! So I’m assuming you don’t support personhood laws, then? I mean, the LAST thing we need is a law mandating that every pregnancy MUST be carried to term, regardless of the risk to mother or child.

            SO nice to see a pro-lifer with some common sense – thank you for that. :)

          • PrincessJasmine4

            A personhood law would make exception for the life of the mother
            Just as every other pro life does even before 1973

          • Jen

            *grin* Try again. From the Q&A section of the personhood booklet passed out in Mississippi prior to their failed ballot amendment, and I quote:

            5. Should personhood legislation include an exception which allows abortion in order to save the life of the mother?

            A life of the mother exception to any abortion law would be a violation of the equal protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment because other classes of people are not given that same kind of exception.

          • Sissy Bild

            Ooops. I do think, however, that this is educational for Stormii and that she will emerge from this thread with new knowledge and insight. She isn’t as rigid as it they get.

          • Jen

            No, she’s not, and given her common-sense outlook as to those pregnancies that simply aren’t going to have a happy ending, I believe she’ll be able to make good decisions when faced with no-exception types of bans. I DO wish that PrincessJasmine4 hadn’t decided to run off, though – apparently, she’s been lied to, and I’d like to know that she understands that now.

          • PrincessJasmine4

            Sigh…

            *head held low*

            Well, Jen, I’m not above reproach nor am I ashamed to concede and admit defeat when I’ve been bested.

            *looking up*

            However, today is not that day.

            You’re right. I have been lied to, by you.

            Abortion was ENTIRELY outlawed in every state INCLUDING in cases where the mother’s life was at risk from 1875 until 1967.

            for “proof” you provided me with a link that only starts with 1957

            Perhaps you should write this feminist website to let them know you are right, and that they are wrong. Jen says abortion was ENTIRELY banned including cases where the mother’s life was at risk between 1875 and 1967, so everyone else is wrong.
            Just in case you have trouble finding it, it’s halfway through the 2nd paragraph and it admits: “By 1880, most abortions were illegal in the U.S., except those ‘necessary to save the life of the woman.’ “

            That 5 years after you said no exception was made.

            Better tell them they’re making you look like a liar.

            Please provide me with evidence to support your claim, as your first, was a bit useless.

            “Abortion is no longer a dangerous procedure. This applies not just to therapeutic abortions as performed in hospitals but also to so-called illegal abortions as done by physicians. In 1957 there were only 260 deaths in the whole country attributed to abortions of any kind. In New
            York City in 1921 there were 144 abortion deaths, In 1951 there were only 15; and, while the abortion death rate was going down so strikinglyin that 30-year period, we know what happened to the population and the
            birth rate. Two corollary factors must be mentioned here: first, chemotherapy and antibiotics have come in, benefiting all surgical procedures as well as abortion. Second, and even more important, the conference estimated that 90 percent of all illegal abortions are
            presently being done by physicians. Call them what you will, abortionists or anything else, they are still physicians, trained as such; and many of them are in good standing in their communities. They must do a pretty good job if the death rate is as low as it is…abortion,whether therapeutic or illegal, is in the main no longer dangerous.” –Mary Calderone, former director of Planned Parenthood, July 1960 “American Journal of Public Health”

            Now let’s look at the Mississippi pamphlet for personhood… yes.. I’ll agree, that does seem damming, doesn’t it? I’m sure that’s why you felt compelled to leave out the rest of the paragraph, right?

            Let me fill in the blanks for you:
            A life of the mother exception to any abortion law would be a violation of the equal protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment because other classes of people are not given that same kind of exception.

            Here’s the inconvenient part you left out:

            For example, there is no exception to the laws against murder which would allow a doctor to kill one member of a set of conjoined twins in order to save the life of the other. The doctor is legally required to attempt to save the lives of both twins until such a time as one of them dies in spite of his efforts, and then he is to continue to devote all of his energy to saving the surviving twin regardless of which one it is. The same application can be made to the unborn child and the mother. The goal of the law in such situations must always be to save both.

            Which of course illustrates what we’ve been saying all along. In the case of an ectopic pregnancy, all attempts must be made to save both lives as they are equal.
            However, if the child is going to die anyway, there is no sense in allowing the mother to perish as well, is there? You save who you can save. Hopefully it’s both, but that’s not always the case.

            *Jen’s shit-faced grin slowly fading*

            Here’s the bill
            Please read it and find me exactly where it says that no exception will be made for the life of the mother.

            Any other 1/2 truths you’d like to swing my way?

            oh… And I didn’t “run off”

            If you must know, I had to drop off the Maserati at the dealership for maintenance. Wait for a loaner car, pick up kids from 3 different school (including all the way out in Brentwood), go back to the dealership to pick up the car, and then return home to make sure all the kids were fed and are now doing their homework. We have an Au pair but she’s off the 2 days that I’m off from work.

            Some of us actually have lives outside of this, and have to work to maintain our extravagant lifestyles… but since you’ve been sitting all alone by your computer desperately awaiting my reply…here I am!
            I realize how important you feel you are, but I wont be able to get back to you right away. Sorry.

          • Jen

            Aww, look, a downvote! Truth hurt? :D

          • Calvin Freiburger

            I don’t know what booklet you (claim to) have seen, but the actual personhood organizations are already on the record: http://liveactionnews.org/dominican-pregnancy-death-sparks-american-demagoguery-over-life-of-the-mother-cases/

            “Truth,” you say. Riiiiiiiiight.

          • Jen

            I’m not “claiming” anything, I have a copy of the booklet in digital form, and I’d be happy to send you a copy of your very own so you can verify its contents the moment you give me an e-mail address to send it to.

          • Calvin Freiburger

            Good for you. What organization does it say it’s from?

            More importantly, are you ready to admit that I just linked you to a source showing the country’s two top personhood groups’ position on life-of-the-mother situations isn’t what you attributed to the personhood label?

          • PrincessJasmine4

            She completely omitted part of the paragraph that didn’t fit her propaganda.
            It’s what they do.

          • Sissy Bild

            You may see it as being backed into a corner because the notion collides with the belief life begins at conception. So many fervently believe this to be true, so in essence, it is still an abortion, no matter the rationale. If anyone believes this fetus is a God sanctioned life, then abortion can’t be justified as an option. Either you are pro-life, or not; there is no room for shades of grey.

          • Stormii

            I still believe life starts at conception. But in the real world, there are hard choices and sometimes someone’s gotta go for someone else to live. Just look at it for a moment, there would be no reason for both the mother and child to die. Except for the extremely rare cases, the child is doomed. Yes, it’s still an abortion, I’m not denying it.

            Why bring God into this? I swear, reading all these comments you pro-choicers are more religious that the so-called conservative. I believe it’s a life – that it. Sorry I didn’t jump onto your God-Hating wagon, maybe next time.

          • Sissy Bild

            It is the “life begins at conception” that is being argued in the high, policy making courts. I’m not inserting God into it as much as quoting the religious right who are at the forefront of this argument. The secular pro-birth camp is, by far, the minority in this discussion.

            So you are saying you are pro-birth, sort of, right? There are exceptions in the murdering of a zygote in your opinion, correct? I am not sure how you came to the confusion my remarks are in any way “God hating”. Perhaps you may want to hone your comprehension skills; they are flimsy.

            I am pro-choice, no grey area. You are pro-birth, with grey area when it is convenient. Is this a fair statement?

          • Stormii

            I don’t just apply this to abortion, it’s to everything. Save who you can, that’s what I’m trying to say but for some reason it’s going right past you which pulls the rug from your “comprehension skill” remark. I said that because you are in some ways mocking him and religion.

            Your are taking my words and trying to portray it as something else. Which means either you didn’t get or choosing to be a bitch. Whatever, but all I am saying that’s save who you can and who has a higher likely hood of survival. Are you understanding now? Do I have to repeat it again, get flash cards or making socket puppet show because those will be hard considering were talking through the internet.

          • Sissy Bild

            You are just so much all over the board in the quest to buttress your remarks that you end up in another county, or see something shiny and off you go. A.D.D or another affliction? I was discussing the arguments foisted on the high courts by lawyers for the forced-birth camp,
            with respect to abortion, and abortion only. Try to stay on topic, you may learn a few things in the process and veer away from projection. Empty calories.

          • Stormii

            I’m not going to even pretend to know what you just said, even though I’m sure you told me I’m going into another country. Or something like that. Hmm, maybe I do have a problem with my comprehension skills but it also may be your writing skills. I promise to look at problem if you do the same to yours.

            Under all that rubble I did manage to see you wanted to keep the topic on abortion, which I was doing in a sense.

            My point here – and try to stay with me – is that the reason I’m for abortion when it comes to the life of the mother is because in most, if not all, cases the mother has a greater chance of survival than the child. Usually the child isn’t developed enough or something in hindering it’s development and it won’t be able to survive outside the womb and if it’s affecting it’s mother’s health and she dies than both die and you solved nothing. I say this applies to a lot of things because in cases of either or people go for the one who has the highest likely hood of survival. This principle doesn’t just apply to abortion, it can apply to anything where two lives are at stake. That’s why, for me, it has little to do with abortion even though the situation may call for it.

            I hope you understood me, but somehow I doubt it.

          • Sissy Bild

            It’s comical to see someone who doesn’t have a firm grasp on the simple principle of a possessive apostrophe and punctuation in general question my writing skills. Thank you for the comic relief. Nonetheless, I do understand where you are coming from and you do seem mature for your sixteen years (albeit, not by much).

            We are going to just have to agree you are, by definition, pro-choice. Thank you for your contributions.

          • Stormii

            I find it comical that when someone can’t give straight answer they pick on grammar problems. It’s like, off topic much? By the way, when I talked about your writing problems, I meant the way you worded your sentences. Just so you know. I guess the end of that was a complement, sort of, so thanks.

            I can’t say that’s pro-choice because in most situations like that, there is no choice for anyone involved. It’s sad, really. But life goes on…for some people at least.

            Anyways, this was fun for me. Now I need to get on with life. Later, Sissy Bild.

          • Sissy Bild

            Bye! I hope you can turn around the constructive criticism for what it is, and not be offended. I am hoping you’ll learn how important punctuation and cogent writing skills are. In this world, your missives are what people will judge your capabilities by prior to meeting you. Excellent writing skills will help you along your in your journey. If you are this astute at sixteen, you are definitely going to do some amazing things.

          • Calvin Freiburger

            Uh, you do know “life begins at conception” is a scientific fact, right? No religion necessary to show that.

          • Basset_Hound

            There’s a difference between allowing for exceptions and building policies around them. I can lob a brick through Mary’s window to attempt to rescue her if her house is on fire. That does not give me the right to break into her house simply because she’s got a better TV than I do and I want to watch the Cowboys game.

            Mary can shoot me dead if I break into her house in the middle of the night. She can’t shoot me dead simply because she doesn’t like me and thinks the planet would be better off without me.

            We Bible Thumpers, hillbillies and Duck Dynasty fans get that. You, in all your sagaciousness miss the point.

    • bradgates

      Typical pro-abortion lie.
      They cannot defend their mass murder of innocent children, so they engage in the cliche exercise of accusing others of their own sick beliefs .. a perverted variation of the old schoolyard “well so’s your old man” insult.

  • Mary Lee

    Here come the trolls! It’s Troll Day!

    • Basset_Hound

      Feeding time at the zoo, right Mary.

      • Unicorn Farm

        Wait, I’m confused. I thought dehumanizing others was something we’re not allowed to do!? Basset, explain!

        • Basset_Hound

          Just stop the post at “I’m confused”…..that would be the closest you’ve come to telling the truth all day.

          • Unicorn Farm

            You all keep telling me I’m lying… but no one has pointed out how…..

            I can only assume that means you can’t.

          • Basset_Hound

            Geez, Calvin just DID.

          • Unicorn Farm

            OOH where?!??! Calvin calling me a liar doesn’t mean he pointed out how.

        • Mary Lee

          A notable difference: Nobody here is using “dehumanization” in order to justify killing you.

    • Jane Doe

      HIgh Troll Mary

  • Unicorn Farm

    “Yes, because so far she’s really awesome at choosing how to handle things. There’s a reason why 15-year-olds are not allowed to drive, drink, vote, join the military, or make lots of other life-changing decisions on their own. That’s why God created parents. But no, you go ahead and let her decide the fate of another human life and her entire future. I’m sure she’s totally up to it.”
    I’m sure you wouldn’t have written this paragraph about a 15 year old who wanted to keep her baby. You insult her decision-making skills, and yet, you think she should be entrusted with having and raising a human being. I’m sure she’s totally up to it.

    • Mary Lee

      ……Mobius strip of false logic…….

      • Unicorn Farm

        In what way? Or do you just think your words sound good together?

    • Beverly Harlton

      We also think that teen moms should be helped by either their families or members of their church or community. Despite what you’ve heard, we’re not about hanging teen moms out to dry.

      • Laurie Bertram Roberts

        not what I’ve heard what I’ve lived

    • PrincessJasmine4

      She could have put the child up for adoption.
      My husband and I would have gladly taken in the child.
      We would have paid all the medical expenses too.
      So many of us would have been willing to help.

      • alidefender

        There are currently 115,000 children in foster care, waiting for adoption in the US. If you actually walked your talk… well, there would be one less waiting, PrincessJasmine4.

        • PrincessJasmine4

          I do walk my walk, thank you for the judgement.
          We have 3 foster children. So there are actually 3 less.

          • Beverly Harlton

            I was gleefully awaiting this response. :D

          • Basset_Hound

            I’m also waiting for Whining Wendy to show up with a long, meandering post about how adoption is unregulated and is not always a positive experience along with her links to a diatribe from some malcontent saying how the evil baby snatchers tricked and abused her.

          • Unicorn Farm

            “…her links to a diatribe from some malcontent saying how the evil baby snatchers tricked and abused her.”

            Bitchy Basset-those will go nicely with Live Action’s links to diatribes from those malcontents saying how the evil abortion industry tricked and abused them.

            Why is a woman who is upset about her abortion “post-abortive” and “in need of healing” and to be lauded for speaking out against the eeeviilll abortion industry, whereas a woman who is upset because she regrets her adoption to be disregarded and disparaged as “some malcontent?”

            Is it because pro-lifers stop giving a shit about women the moment they successfully breed? Is it because the sufferer of post-abortion stress syndrome (lol) is useful to you?

            Ahh… pro-lifers’ compassion for women warms my heart.

          • ldwendy

            Thank you, Unicorn! You expressed my sentiments better than I could.

          • Unicorn Farm

            You’re welcome! Glad I could help and I appreciate your posts :)

          • Calvin Freiburger

            Unicorn is intentionally lying about pro-lifers’ motives and our view of women. How original.

          • Unicorn Farm

            You JUST signed onto that post above calling women sluts. You are confusing “pointing things out” with “lying”

            I copied Basset’s words VERBATIM. Answer my question, if I’m misrepresenting you, then. Why are women who regret adoptions “malcontents” whereas women who abort and then get sad and speak on the SIDE OF LIFE!1 to be praised?

          • Calvin Freiburger

            Oh, so Basset said she “stop[ped] giving a shit about women the moment they successfully breed”?

            As to your question that’s fueled entirely by your own self-serving prejudices: First, is the fact that one choice killed someone and the other didn’t not self-evident? Second, if you were sincerely willing to just open your eyes, you’d find more than enough examples of pro-lifers reaching out to post-abortive women as a whole, not just the ones who already agree with us.

          • Basset_Hound

            You forgot to mention….

            “You JUST signed onto that post above calling women sluts. You are confusing “pointing things out” with “lying'”.

            He claims to have copied my post “VERBATUM” (in all caps no less)! So where did I call anyone a “slut”?

          • PrincessJasmine4

            wait… when did you ever say women who regret putting their baby up for adoption are malcontent?
            I thought you were just disparaging iwendy’s tenancy to whine incessantly and be the perpetual victim…

          • Basset_Hound

            Bingo. You got it. I’ll sleep better knowing Unicorn Farts thinks I’m a bitch and Whining Wendy has given an “up” vote to a post calling me a “despicable person” while lecturing me about “shaming”. And BTW no one ever did answer my original question.

          • PrincessJasmine4

            well… they called you judgmental and horrible for even suggesting it.
            Don’t know why they’d even care..

          • Unicorn Farm

            Nope. Basset wrote that lwendy would post an article “by some malcontent” who had a bad adoption experience.
            Basset called the woman unhappy about her adoption experience “some malcontent.” How many times to I have to copy paste her words?

          • PrincessJasmine4

            you misunderstand… she was referring to something that wendy said in a previous post on a different article (can’t remember which one at the moment, and she was being sarcastic.

          • Basset_Hound

            To clarify what I REALLY said (not someone’s cut and pasted distortion of it since I didn’t find this post until I was about to shut down my computer for the night)….

            1. A woman who regrets putting her child up for adoption is not a “malcontent”, especially if she respects the adoptive family’s wishes and the interests of the child by NOT tearing him away from the only home he’s known months (or years) later is not a malcontent.

            2. A woman who regrets putting her child up for adoption, and who goes whining to Jezebel, RH Reality Check or posts a long drawn out diatribe about “I would have been soooo much happier if I would have had an abortion, like I wanted to do in the first place” is what I was talking about. Someone who is pissed off at the world because their child is alive and and has a chance at life instead of rotting in a landfill is a malcontent. These are the types of stories Wendy links to in an effort to discredit the work of every CPC.

            I am NOT by ANY means implying EVERY woman who relinquishes and regrets it is a malcontent, nor is EVERY woman who has had a bad experience with their child’s adoptive family.

          • PrincessJasmine4

            yes, dear, I know.. It was UF who didn’t realize what you were getting at…

          • Unicorn Farm

            That was Calvin, not you. Calm yourself.

          • Unicorn Farm

            “Oh, so Basset said she “stop[ped] giving a shit about women the moment they successfully breed”?”

            No, I wrote that Basset was dismissive of a woman who was hurting after giving her baby up for adoption.
            You’re purposefully refusing to read what I wrote.

            Why can’t you answer my question?

            Why did a compassionate pro-lifer shame woman who are unhappy about an adoption decision?

          • Calvin Freiburger

            I think it’s hilarious that you don’t care how foolish and dishonest it makes you look to (a) quote THE EXACT LANGUAGE I’M CALLING YOU OUT FOR in the very same comment where you say “no, I wrote” something else, or (b) accuse me of not answering a question I just answered.

          • Basset_Hound

            Oh, so that’s why we have mentoring programs for local elementary and secondary school students. That’s why we partner with local schools to do clean-up and landscaping projects for them. That’s why we sponsor support groups for kids who have problems with eating disorders and other emotional problems. That’s why we donate to food banks…run backpack and school supply drives….we hate women and don’t give a shit…..

            Riiiggghhht. Whatever you say…..

        • Stormii

          Oh look, yet another pro-abort is trying to showcase her infinite knowledge by combining foster care with adoption. Learn the difference between foster and adoption. Foster is usually meant to be short term, kids are usually taken out by the government or parents willingly give them up due to issues. In foster care, children stay with ‘foster parents’ till the government finds a willing relative to take the child or till the bio parents can retrieve them again. If this girl would have chose adoption she would have likely been through an agency where she would have hand-picked the new parents and handed the baby off to them at birth or shortly after. About a small number of women who face unwanted pregnancies chose adoption while their are hundreds of thousands waiting to adopt a baby. Learn your facts, your ignorance is showing.

        • Calvin Freiburger

          As if you’d be more willing to consider the pro-life case from someeone who had “walked the walk”….

          Insincere talking point is insincere.

      • Unicorn Farm

        You still have to trust her to gestate properly. How can you trust her not to give the kid fetal alcohol syndrome or to refrain from smoking or trust her to eat properly?!
        And of course, women aren’t baby farms for infertile couples.

        • PrincessJasmine4

          Never said they were… we’re also not infertile.. we have 3 of our own.
          I don’t know.
          I would have to trust that as a 15 year old, she would not have access to alcohol and drugs.
          But we would have payed for all other expenses.

          • Unicorn Farm

            “Never said they were… we’re also not infertile.. we have 3 of our own.”
            Never said you were infertile. Read plz.

            “I would have to trust that as a 15 year old, she would not have access to alcohol and drugs.”

            Lol.

          • Thorien

            Yeah, not so sure we can trust this girl’s judgment (or her mother’s).

          • Unicorn Farm

            Good thing she has strangers on the internet to make all of her medical decisions for her!!!

          • PrincessJasmine4

            I did read. And I said : “I never said they were” meaning I never said that women were baby farms for infertile couples. I merely injected my personal situation as well.

            15 year old’s having access to drugs and alcohol is not a laughing matter.

        • Josie08

          No, of course not. Adoption is only one choice of the two abortion alternatives available to her. IMHO either choice a girl/woman makes in this situation should be respected.

      • Laurie Bertram Roberts

        Had you bothered to READ the actual blog you would know that my daughter considered all her options, including adoption. I would have supported her in any decision. She read ALL the state mandated literature she even read all the stuff the clinic protesters hand out. She still made HER choice.
        Y’all will think what you want and frankly I don’t care. My daughter did what was right for HER and her health.
        So no I didn’t encourage my daughter to risk her health just so I can have a grandchild right now or because you feel entitled to other people’s babies.

        • PrincessJasmine4

          so it was a human baby’s life she took?
          good of you to concede that.

        • Basset_Hound

          Just curious…how are you going to feel when you take your daughter in for three or four more of these “procedures” before she graduates from high school.

          • PamelaWatters

            Nice, Basset Hound…..you aren’t judging or shaming at all. Why would Laurie’s daughter have three or four more abortions before she graduates from high school? Could you explain that so we can all be clear about what a despicable person you are.

          • Basset_Hound

            Because that’s EXACTLY what these British teens are doing. Here. I’ll restate the headline for you since you probably won’t bother to read the story. It says…

            “Girls using abortion as birth control and having up to four terminations by age 18″

            http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1238612/Girls-using-abortion-birth-control.html

            So I guess you wouldn’t find anything wrong with such behavior, right?

            I merely asked a question. You lecture me for “shaming” then turn around and cast aspersions on MY character. Typical.

        • Calvin Freiburger

          HER, HER, HER.

          Never mind that your grandson/granddaughter is dead.

          That’s a very narcissistic sense of morality you’ve instilled in your daughter. Good job!

          • Thorien

            But it was her decision (she did read all the literature). I guess that makes it okay.

            Besides, Mariah will be another woman’s baby later, kind of like in Logan’s Run.

          • Basset_Hound

            And when mom is in her late 70’s and slowing down, daughter can take her to the Jack Kervorkian Memorial Assisted Suicide Center. Karma’s a bitch ain’t she.

          • Unicorn Farm

            Calvin, when is the last time you donated plasma, or a slice of your liver? Or even blood? I guess because they’re YOURS YOURS YOURS.

            Easier to browbeat other people into morality over the internet. Good job!

          • Calvin Freiburger

            What part of “I’ve never killed anyone” don’t you understand? Or what part of “I’ve never created a new life with no intention of taking responsibility for it”?

            Your pseudo-morality play-acting is getting old.

          • Unicorn Farm

            “”I’ve never created a new life with no intention of taking responsibility for it”?

            Well yes, it’s obvious that you don’t get laid.

            “What part of “I’ve never killed anyone” don’t you understand?”
            Tsk tsk Calvin. You’re simply withholding aid, just like a woman who gets an RU-486 abortion. How rude. I guess it’s all about YOU YOU YOU.

            “Your pseudo-morality play-acting is getting old.”

            Rich. I’m just pointing out that it’s really easy to demand that others make sacrifices that you will never consider making yourself.

          • Calvin Freiburger

            Thanks for going the extra mile in showing how immature you are, in addition to dishonest. It’s like you’re trying to do my job for me.

  • MYOB

    If we don’t trust 15-year-olds to make life-sized decisions (drink, drive, vote, etc), why on earth would you think they are mature enough, physically, mentally & emotionally to parent? Are you even aware of the massive hypocrisy in your stance? Talk about SMH!

    • PrincessJasmine4

      Why on earth would we entrust them with having sex then?
      There is always adoption.

      • alidefender

        115,000 children in foster care in the US, PrincessJasmine4. All waiting for a loving family. What’s the hold up on your part?

        • PrincessJasmine4

          I just answered you alidefender.

      • Laurie Bertram Roberts

        So they shouldn’t parent? All I hear you keep saying is adoption. So you feel you are entitled to poor teenagers babies. You are not.

        • PrincessJasmine4

          No one is entitled to judge who is worthy of life or death either.

          Leave to the pro abort to twist the good intentions of the pro lifers…

          • Laurie Bertram Roberts

            You didn’t answer the question-you and fellow posters are saying you support teen mothers but all I see from you is supporting them to give up their children because you don’t think they have the skills and judgement to parent.
            Y’all can’t have it both ways. You can’t say “here’s this child to raise you can do that at 15 but making a medical decision, nope”.

          • PrincessJasmine4

            If she wants to keep her child, pro lifers are there to help her with that too.

          • Laurie Bertram Roberts

            Really? Where? When I was 16 and pregnant my husband and I recieved NO HELP when we asked for it from our local Birthright as soon as they knew I has no interest in adoption. Oh wait they gave me one ugly maternity dress. That really helped on the days we didn’t have food.

            I have been to a CPC too they didn’t help me at all. I did get a really long lecture about how I should get remarried. So hey forced birthers I want to thank you a free pregnancy test. After that I learned to go to PP.

          • Marauder

            So we’re supposed to believe that one CPC that acted badly is a reason that all CPCs suck, but when one Planned Parenthood gets caught accepting a donation to abort a black baby, or lying about fetal development, it’s just a few bad apple rogue employees.

            It does sound as though the CPC you went to was unhelpful and judgmental, and I’m sorry you had that experience. That doesn’t mean they’re all like that.

            Birth is the natural conclusion of a successful pregnancy. Hearing people talk about “forced birth” reminds me of eating disorder documentaries I’ve seen, where bulimic people argue that their families and doctors are trying to control their bodies by making them engage in forced digestion.

          • nonce37

            And therefore it is now morally acceptable for you to have your granddaughter dismembered?

          • PrincessJasmine4

            wow, sorry about your horrible experience.
            Truly tragic. no sarcasm.
            The CPC where I went to school helped with everything.

            I was in college, unwed and wanted to finish.

            They helped me money, groceries and then when my son was born, they helped with daycare.
            I finished college at the top of class with 2 degrees and 1 masters.

            Sorry that all you had was judgement. No wonder you are bitter. Perhaps I don’t blame you for the way you feel.

            That’s not what we do at the place where I volunteer. Most of us open our hearts and homes to teenage and college aged girls faced with unintended pregnancies

          • Marauder

            Medical decisions are things like whether you should go through chemo, or have your tonsils removed, or have the size or your stomach reduced. Abortion is ending the life of a human being.

          • Thorien

            Teens are not mature enough to be parents, which is why they need the support of those who are. If pregnant teens don’t have that support, or do have it but don’t want to raise their children, they can find adoptive parents for their babies. They don’t have to kill their unborn children.

        • Beverly Harlton

          But those babies are entitled to life.

          We do not believe we are “entitled” to poor teenagers’ babies, but we do believe the babies are entitled to exist, not to be snuffed it as an inconvenience or a burden. If a teen mom chooses to parent her child, then we hope that there is sufficient support at home for her to take care of that baby. If there isn’t, then there are charities and parenting classes to help her. She needs a mentor, someone to guide her to make good decisions as a parent. If she does not want to raise the child herself, she can put it up for adoption, not because other people are somehow entitled to it, but because it deserves to live and be raised in an environment where it is cared for and loved.

          Babies are not seen as people but as things to have. It is not possible for a human to be entitled to a baby, and to view oneself as being entitled is to view the baby as a possession.

        • Calvin Freiburger

          Um, to point out the obvious, you’re the one who made an argument based on 15-year-olds being too irresponsible to parent, not Jasmine. She was just responding to it.

  • Guest

    I love how Mary speaks for a collective “we”. She’s somewhat of a top; must have been a hall monitor is middle school. Um, Mary? The frequent implementation of capital letters is tantamount to yelling. We hear you just fine.

    • Mary Lee

      I heard you fine the first time, too. I guess you felt the need to repeat yourself.

      OKAY?

      Also, what about belgianchic? She uses caps too. But it’s okay because she’s pro-abortion?

      And, yes, I say “we” because I am talking about not only me, but my fellow pro-lifers, and what we have established. Seriously, this is what you want to harp on? Pathetic.

      • PrincessJasmine4

        it’s all they have.

  • Sissy Bild

    I love how Mary speaks for a collective “we”. She’s somewhat of a top; must have been a hall monitor in middle school. Um, Mary? The frequent implementation of capital letters is tantamount to yelling. We hear you just fine. You don’t need to *yell*.

  • alidefender

    I see nothing of the feminist in Kristen’s article. Seems the same old same old blah, blah, I’m right, you’re wrong. “New Wave Feminists” not real feminists! Sounds like the anti-abortionists trying to be disguised. My body, My choice. None of your business!

    • PrincessJasmine4

      It’s your body, your choice, until another human life comes into play.

      • alidefender

        And when that human life takes its first breath, then it is a different game.

        • Stormii

          Yes everyone knows first breath apparently means that your alive, your human and your worth a damn! Genetically, nothing changes from minutes before birth or after it. Say if a newborn as trouble breathing when it comes out, it doesn’t take it’s first breath immediately afterwards. Would you be okay with getting a scalpel and killing it? If you say yes, your mentally disturbed. Take offense.

          I get so sick and tired of you people trying to pass off your bumper sticker slogans as actual fact! It’s insulting to everyone who didn’t sleep through their science classes.

        • Calvin Freiburger

          Does that mean people in iron lungs don’t have a right to life? That they aren’t people? That it’s okay to kill them for our benefit?

        • Basset_Hound

          My daughter was not breathing when she was born and had the cord around her neck. My husband had lost his job the week before. Did I have a right to say…”oh well, don’t bother with the oxygen, just cut her throat when you’re done with the cord”.

      • Laurie Bertram Roberts

        cool if I need you’re kidney can I have it then?

        • Calvin Freiburger

          You’ve memorized and internalized your pro-abortion fallacies very well. Too bad they’re still garbage.

          First, even without express permission, in the vast majority of cases the mother’s actions created the baby and put him/her in her body, meaning she does indeed have responsibility for his/her well being.

          Second, even if she did have a right to evict her son or daughter, it wouldn’t follow that the methods by which she may do so are unlimited – if I find a drunk has broken into my house and passed out on my couch, I have the right to kick him out and have him arrested, but I don’t have the right to put a shotgun to his head and blow him away while he’s sleeping. Similarly, there’s no reason a general right to remove an unwanted baby from one’s womb would entail a right to have him or her intentionally killed by abortion. Abortion is direct, willful application of deadly force, not just removal or withholding of aid.

          Third, nobody has a natural right to someone else’s kidney. But a developing baby does have a right to the biological structures and functions that operate for the very purpose of sustaining him/her. He or she isn’t some fluke or foreign entity, but a natural result of the reproductive process working correctly.

          • Unicorn Farm

            More weak thinking.

            “… there’s no reason a general right to remove an unwanted baby from one’s womb would entail a right to have him or her intentionally killed by abortion. Abortion is direct, willful application of deadly force, not just removal or withholding of aid.”

            What about RU-486, which merely alters my body’s release of progesterone and induces contractions in my uterus, which I own? It merely evicts the fetus. The fetus dies because it can no longer use my body systems-I am withholding aid. It is not my fault that the 9- week old fetus is not viable- that’s just the natural state of the reproductive process working correctly.

            Its pathetic that “natural use” = right is the basis of your entire argument.

            The purpose of the uterus is to allow the female to reproduce and to pass along her genes. It’s for her benefit, not the benefit of the fetus. That’s why the body naturally aborts pregnancies that are likely to fail. Didn’t you take freshman bio?

          • Calvin Freiburger

            Translation: it starves the fetus to death. Yeah, that sounds like a right to proudly shout from the rooftops!

            And it may not be your fault that the baby’s not viable — but it most certainly is your fault the baby was put in the position of complete hopelessness in the first place.

            If you have a better foundational theory of human rights, let’s hear it. But really, enough of this crap where pro-aborts screech about “rights” without even trying to show a basis for them.

            “not the benefit of the fetus.”

            What an idiot. Sorry, but you’ve passed the intellectual event horizon. That’s all the more I can justify wasting on you.

          • Unicorn Farm

            “Translation: it starves the fetus to death. Yeah, that sounds like a right to proudly shout from the rooftops!”

            But am I obligated to provide food for someone else?

            “it most certainly is your fault the baby was put in the position of complete hopelessness in the first place.”

            If it’s my fault to baby was “put there” when it attaches in my uterus then it’s just as much my fault if the baby fails to implant in my uterus and washes out, right? So I’m a murderer if that happens?

            “What an idiot”
            Fun! Ad homs from a polisci major with an unemployed polisci major!
            Was I wrong, about passing along genes? No? Ok.
            If I never have kids, who owns my uterus? Me? Ok.
            Whose benefit is my vagina for? Mine? Or is it there for the benefit of the father of my children? After all, he uses it to reproduce. Does he own it? Do my children own it? I’m so confused Calvin, help! Does the father own it only for the purpose of reproduction, because he uses it and benefits from it? Does he have some sort of easement on it?

          • Calvin Freiburger

            Yep, that sounds like you’ve made the slightest effort to understand and accurately convey the argument you’re arrogantly mocking. Complete with a false accusation about my professional life! Gotta hand it to you, Unicorn, you’re really doing your image such wonderful favors.

        • PrincessJasmine4

          If you need it, and we’re a match. I’d be happy.

    • Marauder

      If you want to get a tattoo, breast implants, breast reductions, your tubes tied, liposuction, plastic surgery, transgender surgery, five piercings through your nose, or a shaved head, then sure, it’s your body, your choice. If you want to dismember someone else’s body, it’s a whole different ball game.

      • alidefender

        See this is all coming out of different sets of “beliefs”. You believe that it is a child at conception. Not everyone believes the same as you. So there it is… you say that your belief has more validity. I say not. The law says not. And yet, you continually force your beliefs on the rest of us.

        • Marauder

          It doesn’t matter if I believe it’s a Yeti at conception. The scientific fact is that a new human being is created when the sperm penetrates the egg.

          The law used to say that black people weren’t worth of human rights, too.

          • alidefender

            This is not a discussion of race and slavery. One has nothing to do with the other. I’ve yet to see the science of life begins at conception. This is a Belief!

          • Marauder

            You tried to maintain that if a law states something, that makes it true. I pointed out an example of an instance in which that wasn’t true.

            What do you think life is?

          • letusreasontogether

            Good grief! Any biology book will give you the proof you claim to seek. It is a scientific FACT when life begins. It is not a “belief.” Yours is a case of “willful ignorance.”

  • Jess

    I applaud you and my own mother for giving your child a choice ! After all that’s what this is all about.

    • Marauder

      The grandchild, on the other hand, had no choice but to be dismembered by a vacuum.

      • Churchy_LaFemme

        The ‘grandchild’ at the time, had no brain activity either.
        If you are against abortion, don’t have one. If you are not the pregnant person, and the pregnant person has not asked for your advise, STFU!

        • Calvin Freiburger

          Your logic is the same as “if you are against slavery, don’t have one. If you are not the plantation owner, and the plantation owner has not asked for your advice, STFU!”

        • letusreasontogether

          You mention brain activity. Would you be in favor of using the same standard tor determining life at the beginning as at the end–> the presence of a heartbeat and brainwaves? If not, why not? It is based solely on science and not “feelings” or “beliefs.”

  • Sissy Bild

    What are your views on the termination of an ectopic pregnancy?

  • indianfeminist101

    I wonder if you pro-lifers believe that the 15 year old should be tried for murder and sentenced? Seriously, what do you guys believe should be the punishment for abortion? I am curious. Phrases like ‘killing’, ‘murdering’, ‘ ripping out’ are used so often. What is to be the punishment? If the woman terminates twin foetuses, do you want her to be senenced to death?

    Really, I am curious.

    • Calvin Freiburger
      • indianfeminist101

        Thanks for the link. But I find most of the responses to this question very evasive and vague.

        1. If a woman hires a doctor to terminate her pregnancy, why punish the doctor only? At best, he is a hired help to committ the ‘criminal’ act, since according to pro-life logic, the foetus has a life and so termination is ‘ killing’. The mother is the ‘legal’ killer too then, along with the doctor. So by pro-life logic she should serve time for breaking the law, no?

        2.Legal vs. Moral: Pro-lifers are asking that abortions be made ‘illegal’, so it is a LEGAL issue. Many points in this link evade the answer by resorting to ‘praying’, ‘morality’, ‘compassion.’ Right, but then what about the fact that this whole battle is about the ‘law’???So, if this law is broken by an individual, the punishment has to be through the legal system. If what pro-lifers believe this to be ‘murder’, then the punishment has to match the crime. If pro-life movement believes that abortion should be illegal because it ‘kills’, then by that logic it is the mother who is a killer alongside the doctor, who at best, by this logic, a hired gun.

        3. Moreover, almost all the responses summed in the article argue for ‘protecting’ the woman from this ‘crime’. We are talking about the same woman who orders the procedure, so why does she need protection?? By pro-life logic, the woman hires the doctor to kill the foetus: so the woman is the chief perpetrator, doctor secondary and the foetus is the victim. Woman is not the victim by this logic so needs no protection.

        I find all these answers very very evasive. If you are asking about a legal remedy, then the outcome will have to be legal. Nobody is articulating it clearly here. So my questions stand unanswered.

        • Calvin Freiburger

          First, the point of the law is to protect people’s rights. The point of criminalizing abortion is just that: preventing abortions from happening. If, for instance, a state finds that a particular punishment for abortionists has a satisfactory deterrent effect on abortion rates, then the law’s done its job, and adding on a punishment for women wouldn’t be useful for anything other than making a moral statement.

          Second, there’s a big difference between abortion and post-birth homicide, theft, rape, and just about every other crime: only abortion has decades of legal recognition and social celebration as a constitutional right, and pervasive misinformation about what its victim is – a propaganda campaign backed by a powerful industry, influential advocacy groups, forces at every level of government, one of America’s two main political parties, and scores of wide-ranging voices in our media, education establishment, and popular culture. It’s perfectly reasonable to consider how long and how deeply abortion-seekers have been misled when determining whether to punish them, or the abortionist who knows exactly what he’s destroying.

          Did you know that throughout his career, Abraham Lincoln supported a number of compensated emancipation proposals – freeing slaves, but paying owners for their financial loss? Would pro-choicers say that made his opposition to slavery any less sincere or thoughtful, just because he would have ended slavery without punishing those who treated blacks like property?

          “The feeling is against slavery, not against the South,” he said. “Until very recently the North has been of the same opinion. For two hundred years the whole country has admitted it,” and any solution to the crisis had to recognize that context (similarly to how I just described pro-lifers recognizing abortion’s context). Lincoln hoped compensation would help emancipation go down more peacefully (of course, the Civil War kept that theory from being tested). Today’s context is different – we’d punish rather than pay slavers because slavery’s evil has been universally understood for the past century and a half.

          Similarly, after abortion’s propaganda has been uprooted and replaced with a more enlightened consensus, a future generation may decide abortion-seeking women should be presumed to fully understand what they’re destroying, and they may choose to punish them accordingly. But that’s not where we are today. Pro-lifers recognize how the abortion movement victimizes mother and child alike, so we’re dedicated to saving both.

          • indianfeminist101

            This is extremely vague!!

            So, currently you think women do not understand what they are doing? You think women are ignorant fools who are terminating their own pregnancies just because of the propaganda? Do you realize it sounds like women are not adults capable of rational and adult actions when it comes to their own bodies?

            We are talking about the context of the ‘present’. Concept of individual rights and responsibility has moved significantly since the Lincoln times you know!! You can not say , “oh but I didn’t know”, and get a free ticket. Not in legal terms.

            Today women are fully capable of taking their own decisions LEGALLY. If you believe that in every other context, then why should abortion be an exception, when you claim that the termination is killing?

            If a man rapes when intoxicated and he doesn’t ‘know’ what he was doing, does that absolve him of the crime? Or if a woman hits a pedestrian with her car and kills him, does it absolve her of manslaughter?

            What about when abortion was illegal ( barely forty years ago), and women still opted for it? That time were they criminals? All women who would support pro-choice legislations are criminals? How can you appeal women not to terminate their own pregnancies and absolve them of the responsibility of the action?

            Look at your own arguments. Give some thought to the concept that women are just people who should be legally allowed to take their own decisions.

          • Calvin Freiburger

            It’s not vague at all. Honestly, I’ve read your comment a couple times now and it sounds like you just don’t want to let go of this attack on pro-lifers and are looking for excuses to keep pushing it.

            The worst offenders are your paragraph hysterically accusing me of calling women ignorant fools, even though I clearly said or implied nothing of the sort, and the paragraph where you ask me about rape and vehicular homicide, even though there’s a passage in my previous comment that directly addresses that sort of thing.

            Maybe you should hold of debating for a while until you’re ready to open your mind a bit further beyond your biases.

  • PamelaWatters

    My friend, Ti Ennis, was unable to log in & asked me to post this on her behalf:

    Let’s put this as politely as possible. How could you possibly believe that you have been gifted with the right to choose for other women what they should or should not do with their bodies?Giving birth is not just a physical process. It entails much more responsibility than that. It entails the ability not only to clothe and feed and nurture the child physically but to provide for it in all other ways until you die. Humans never stop being parents. Giving birth is a personal experience and a personal choice. The option to not give birth is a legal option. You can have your opinion, go for it. You have a right to choose for yourself, go for it. Keep your arrogant, condescending, sadistic, self righteous nose out of everyone else’s business. This may leave you with nothing else to do but I am sure that if you put your mind to it, you can find some way to constructively contribute to society.

    • Calvin Freiburger

      Simple: because “what they should or should not do with their bodies” isn’t the issue. Killing the OTHER PERSON inside that woman’s body is. If you can’t even be honest when you’re describing the controversy, then it’s your nose that needs to find someplace else.

      • Unicorn Farm

        This admonishment would be more impressive if you could honestly admit that what pro-choice people mean when they say “what they should or should not do with their bodies” means whether or not those bodies gestate (verb).

        Keeping the fetus alive in her body requires her to gestate. There is no way to deny this. You believe it is worth the life of the fetus to force her to do this, but until you can honestly describe the controversy, then its your head that needs to get out of your ass.

        • Calvin Freiburger

          Nobody denies that, liar. You and your fellow fanatics, however, certainly do constantly, knowingly, and intentionally use language that hides the death involved.

          it must be liberating to go through your life feeling no obligation toward honesty. It probably won’t prove fulfilling in the long run, though.

          • Unicorn Farm

            “Nobody denies that, liar.”

            In the comment I wrote that you responded to, you said:

            “…because “what they should or should not do with their bodies” isn’t the issue. Killing the OTHER PERSON inside that woman’s body is.”

            You wrote the above sentence as if you could prevent a woman from killing “the other person” in her body and some how simultaneously not be telling her what to do with her body. You just denied that that was the controversy and now are telling me no one denies it. You have written numerous comments and “articles” on this site claiming that no one is telling women what to do with their bodies, you’re “merely preventing them from killing.”

            “it must be liberating to go through your life feeling no obligation toward honesty. It probably won’t prove fulfilling in the long run, though.”

            Do you have like a grab bag of these cute little quips that you pick from randomly for each comment? So clever.

          • Calvin Freiburger

            Nah, it’s just that you all share the same set of character flaws, so the responses pretty much write themselves. And I trust the sane readers to decide whether you’ve drawn even remotely accurate characterizations and inferences from my words.

    • Jennie

      You never stop being a parent? Ah hah! You said something honest! Killing your child doesn’t make you a non parent, it makes you the parent of a dead child.

    • Jennie

      Humans never stop being parents! You are correct! Once the child exists, killing said child does not make you a non parent, it makes you the parent of a dead child.

  • Kelsey

    The daughter’s contibution demonstrates how a belief in reincarnation fits into radical pro-abortionism, to the point where pro-choice ideology becomes an actual religion.
    http://blog.secularprolife.org/2013/07/the-abortion-religion.html

    • Laurie Bertram Roberts

      wait I have to wrap my head around someone bashing my child’s religious beliefs while joining forces with people who want to make dogma and religious belief law. I needed a laugh. I have lessons to do now.

      • Laurie

        “Mariah” pretty much speaks for itself.

      • Calvin Freiburger

        “people who want to make dogma and religious belief law”

        Well, at least you’ve got your side’s handy little fictions memorized.

        • Sherry Francis

          I guess people with no morals can’t understand how someone else has them unless they are religious?

      • Frankie Addiego

        Psst… Laurie: opposing abortion isn’t about religion: it’s about not killing people.

        Also: are they her religious beliefs or yours?

        • Sheryl Conerly

          Psst….Frankie: abortion isn’t about killing people.

          • Kathryn A. O’Keefe

            That depends on your definition of a person. See, since pro-lifers generally define a person as being anyone with human DNA who is alive, to pro-lifers, abortion is homicide.

            Pro-choicers usually set the bar for being qualified as a person at some stage in the pregnancy, usually twenty weeks, or later, usually at birth, depending on the health of the fetus (if, for example, a child is born with Downs’ syndrome, radical pro-choicers recommend allowing an “after-birth” abortion).

          • Sheryl Conerly

            And some people are clearly wrong. But the fact of the matter is that it is my body and I get to choose what is done with it, not you or anyone else…bottom line. It doesn’t matter what anyone’s definition is when it comes to a person’s own person. You don’t have the right to tell me what to do with my body and I don’t have the right to tell you either. And as long as the fetus is a part of my body, it is not a separate entity.

            And that last little bit you slid in their, “(if, for example, a child is born with Downs’ syndrome, radical pro-choicers recommend allowing an “after-birth” abortion).”, is just a load of bs. But, of course, I expect crap like that to spew from an anti-choicer.

          • Kathryn A. O’Keefe

            You do realize that radical pro-choicers just recently tried getting a bill to pass that would allow for after-birth abortion in the case of abnormalities that hadn’t before been found, including Downs’ syndrome, if it had not been diagnosed?

            http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/she-the-people/post/after-birth-abortion-can-they-be-serious/2012/03/03/gIQADgiOsR_blog.html

            http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_nature/2012/03/after_birth_abortion_the_pro_choice_case_for_infanticide_.html

            http://www.wnd.com/2013/03/planned-parenthood-lobbies-for-post-birth-abortion/

            http://nation.foxnews.com/planned-parenthood/2013/03/29/video-planned-parenthood-official-argues-right-post-birth-abortion

            Yeah, no, it’s a thing.

            I agree that I can’t tell you what to do with your body, and you can’t tell me what to do with mine.

            A fetus isn’t part of a woman’s body, the DNA is different, and it is clearly a separate being. It’s inside a woman’s body because it is at the earliest stage of development, and so needs to be protected and have constant nourishment, which the woman’s body provides for.

            Also, if a human doesn’t count as being a person until it meets certain requirements, those requirements can be slid around to justify pretty much anything.

          • Sheryl Conerly

            I don’t care that the DNA is different. If the fetus cannot survive on its own without being in the womb, it is still a part of my body attached by the umbilical.
            But, as it is too late and I am about to go to bed, I will check your links tomorrow and if it’s legit, they are just as wrong in what they are trying to do as you are at what you are trying to do.
            Bottom line….not your business.

          • Jennie

            Ok so by your logic, it is also acceptable to allow a baby to starve to death after birth because he or she is incapable of feeding his/her self. Also, since there are elderly people in homes because they can’t get around well and some can’t prepare their own meals, we should “abort” their lives as well. We wouldn’t want to burden those responsible for them, now would we.

          • Sheryl Conerly

            Oh god, the stupidity in here is giving me a headache. Of course, this is what you people try to do….twist words around and make them into something not even close to what someone was talking about. I get it…you can’t help it….you are assholes. I never said anything about no one else being able to help an infant after it was born, you dumbshit. I don’t usually resort to name calling but the level of ignorance and stupidity in here has brought me to it.

            Still: bottom line…my body, not your business.

          • Mary Lee

            Yeah, facts and logic are so stupid and ignorant.

            What have you offered? Slogans and excuses. No scientific proof of anything, no rational thought, just noise.

          • Jane Doe

            YOu support killing Muslim babies with depleted uranium because your Zionist rear end does not think they are human

          • Frankie Addiego

            Jane, Jane, Jane. Nobody here’s saying Muslims aren’t human. Nobody here wants them to be killed. You’re just going off on some stereotypes from Huffpost, Jane Ho!

          • Mary Lee

            I think you need a cup of chamomile tea and a blanket and a nap or something. Or some valium.

            But thank you for making me laugh and proving my point at the same time.

          • Sherry Francis

            She didn’t say that’s what you said; she used other examples of your own logic and definitions of what should be allowed. You said they can’t feed themselves or survive in the womb. She said they can’t feed themselves or survive outside the womb. Only difference is it might take some actual effort to feed it outside the womb and to take care of it. And pro-choicers are too immature and selfish to actually do that. Probably a good thing you aren’t having a baby, because you’d be too selfish to put your child ahead of yourself and your life.

          • Eric

            I like your comment because thats the point.

            Some people aren’t ready to put a child ahead of their lives, their goals, their dreams. Some people aren’t and thats their business. So instead of making a child suffer through that, they elect to not allow the pregnancy to develop (hopefully within the first trimester).

            So, in my hypothetical uterus, I believe I too elect to have an abortion at this age, cause well I’m too selfish. But since my hypothetical uterus isn’t real.

          • Kathryn A. O’Keefe

            Except that that fails to provide the child with any options. There are people in this world who have had horrible childhoods, and have managed to pull through, and become excellent people. Also, there are options other than abortion out there, including adoption. The system in America is screwed up, yes, but if abortion is consistently viewed as being a better option, then the system will never be fixed. It’s said that abortion is the woman’s choice, but if all the other choices provided are so bad in comparison that a woman will consistently choose to kill another living being instead of giving that being a chance to have any chance in life, then what kind of choices can the other options be?

            So yeah, abortion can be a better option than putting a child through all that suffering. Because once s/he’s dead, then nothing bad could possibly happen to him/her afterwards.

            Bad things happen, it’s called life. Just because you think or know that some bad things are going to happen to someone, doesn’t mean that you should deny them everything good, because you’re too busy worrying about all the bad things that could happen to them.

          • Tonya

            Ever heard of the word ADOPTION?

          • Frankie Addiego

            And, of course, there are other recourses besides abortion. Obviously, our pal Sheryl doesn’t have the intelligence or maturity to be responsible for another human being; but I don’t think the person in her womb should pay the price.

            But you know what’s wrong with the, “some people ought not have children,” argument? No matter how much propaganda Planned Parenthood and the DNC throw our way, some women are going to choose life when, by your standards, it’s not the right (read: pragmatic) choice.

            By your logic, they’ve done something worse than killing them. Yet, the pro-abortion movement hides behind the idea of women’s choice and wants to make this sound like opposition to abortion is about not trusting women. Yet, by your logic, sometimes they are wrong.

            What do you have to say about that?

          • Jenna

            Too bad you are a murderer. And as I see not very smart. No one twists words you just refuse the truth.

          • jhd

            Well, Sheryl!!! Since you are calling people ignorant and dumbshit, perhaps you need to work on your grammer, because YOU are IGNORANT when it comes to correct grammer!!

            “I never said anything about no one else … (Your sentence, definitely not mine!!)

            First of all, NEVER and NO ONE are two negative pronouns!! You NEVER use two negative pronouns in a sentence!!! AND, NO ONE should NOT have been used at all!!! The correct word is “ANYONE!!!”

            As far as your view on MURDER, you have proven that you as well as everyone that think that it is your/their right to choose what happens to “their” body when it comes to murdering another human being (that is totally dependent upon you/them for their survival, I “WILL” add!) are nothing more than self righteous, conscience seared murderers!!

            It’s so ignorant for anyone to think that that baby is a blob of tissue, isn’t a life, can be disposed of!!! As soon one sperm makes its way into the Fallopian tube and burrow into the egg, it fertilizes the egg.

            At the instant of fertilization, the baby’s genes and sex are set. If the sperm has a Y chromosome, the baby will be a boy. If it has an X chromosome, the baby will be a girl.

            OH WAIT!!! YOU (AND EVERYONE ELSE THAT DOESN’T WANT TO CALL MURDER WHAT IT IS) HAVE CONVINCED THEMSELVES THAT THAT “LIFE” INSIDE OF THEM IS A GIRL BLOB OF TISSUE OR A BOY BLOB OF TISSUE!!

            Let’s take it one step further!!! You and they, say it isn’t a life! If it isn’t a life then why are so many fighting to murder it? If it isn’t a live then what makes the cells divide… If something isn’t a live then how does it grow?
            IT’S A LIFE, THAT’S WHY!!! YOU & THOSE LIKE YOU ARE TAKING A LIFE!!! AN INNOCENT LITTLE BOY OR GIRL THAT THE LORD KNEW AND DESIGNED BEFORE “YOU” WERE EVEN BORN!!!! AND Y’ALL ARE MURDERING THAT CHILD!!!!

            Jeremiah 1:5
            “I knew you before I formed you in your mother’s womb. Before you were born I set you apart and appointed you as my prophet to the nations.”

            Psalm 106:38
            They shed innocent blood, the blood of their sons and daughters. By sacrificing them to the idols of Canaan, they polluted the land with murder.

            Psalm 139:13-16
            “For you formed my inward parts; you covered me in my mothers womb… Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed”

            Abortion is murder

            The purpose of the sixth commandment, ‘You shall not murder’ (Exodus 20:13), is to protect human life. From the Scriptures: abortion is murder. According to the Bible, murder is the intentional killing of an innocent human life. The murder scenarios described in Numbers 35 all illustrate an intention to kill. For example, ‘If a man strikes someone with an iron object so that he dies, he is a murderer; the murderer shall be put to death… If anyone with malice aforethought shoves another or throws something at him intentionally so that he dies, or if in hostility he hits him with his fist so that he dies… he is a murderer.’ (Numbers 35:16, 20, 21). To purposely destroy a human being, with malice aforethought, is murder. To purposely destroy an unborn child in its mother’s womb, with malice aforethought, is intentionally killing, and that, according to Scriptures is murder. Therefore abortion is murder to the unborn!!!

          • jhd

            OH, And Sheryl, This is what you and others say is your right to do: (MAKE SURE YOU WATCH IT ALL THE WAY THROUGH, BECAUSE I AM SURE IT WON’T EVEN PHASE YOU!)

            http://herestheblood.com/

          • Kathryn A. O’Keefe

            While I agree with your stance on abortion, you’re not going to help anything by quoting the bible, using caps, and insulting people. That just makes them think that they’re right in the assumption that pro-lifers are a bunch of judgmental, ignorant, a-holes. Also, ripping into slight grammar mistakes, while understandable online, isn’t really going to help your argument, it just makes you look petty.

            There are plenty of scientific, unbiased sources to use when arguing about abortions ethical/psychological/physical issues. Unless the people you’re arguing with are a) Christian themselves (or Jewish), or b) you’re arguing about a specific religion, they won’t count the Bible as being an acceptable source, unless you’re trying to explain why certain religions are so opposed to abortion.

          • jhd

            You are correct, Kathryn! I obviously get fired up on this subject! I look at everything as black and white, right or wrong, according to how we should view things and act according to the will of God!! About how people treat one another, stealing, etc… I’m not saying that I am perfect by any stretch, because we all fall short. And if we were perfect we would not have the need of a redeemer. However, I really do try to “walk the walk!!” I brought up the grammar issue, because she was calling others “ignorant!” Which again you’re correct! Why should I care if she uses correct or incorrect grammer? And yes, that was pretty petty! So thanks for putting things into perspective!!

          • Jane Doe

            You brought up the grammar issues because your emotions got out of hand! Sounds like you need medication

          • jhd

            LOL!!! You’re funny!!!

          • Nancy Richard Colburn

            Well, learn how to spell the word grammar.

          • Calvin Freiburger

            “My body”…..uber alles, you might say…..

          • Frankie Addiego

            “Oh god, the stupidity in here is giving me a headache.”

            I know, pro-abortionists hate it when other people point out how your standards are horse-bleep with unfortunate implications.

            ” I never said anything about no one else being able to help an infant after it was born, you dumbshit.”

            See, Jennie never said you said anything about that. She’s talking about how BY YOUR LOGIC that’s the standard.

            If the fact that someone can’t survive on their own makes someone a human/not a human, then that means might makes right. It means that someone’s inability to survive without a certain condition gives them the right to kill.

            Face it, Sheryl: you’re wrong and we’re right. And it’s no less our business than if someone wanted to legalize child molestation.

          • SMILLER

            Stop responding to me when I am not allowed on here. What is wrong with you people? Do you like talking to walls? And, no, that wasn’t my logic. My truth is that as long as the fetus is a part of my body, it is up to me and me alone what happens to that fetus. As a mother, I chose to give a child life so from that point of MY decision, it was my responsibility to see that he was taken care of. Let’s say if I were raped, goodness forbid, and I chose to give it up for adoption instead of abortion, then when it was born, it would be my responsibility to sign it over to whomever the parents were to be and then they take responsibility. So tired of people twisting everybody’s words around. I don’t even know why I am bothering to answer you. People like you will never engage in actual debate. All it ever will be is self-righteousness, ignorance and immaturity, some from both sides. And child molesting compared to abortion just goes to show the kind of people you are. Abortion doesn’t hurt another person (personhood happens when you are born, not before, ever-when a breath is taken on their own for the first time without being in the womb with help from the mother, then you are a person)-child molestation hurts children. And before someone screams murder at me again and tries to argue, “well, what about a baby who was born and has to have help to breath via a respirator?” Simple math, boys and girls, that baby might need help but it’s not from another person’s body so, guess what, A PERSON! Yay!
            Okay, I’ll go now. No more questions or comments because I’m not coming back. I will leave you all to kiss one another’s butt and pat yourselves on the back for being obstinate and self-righteous, all you cute little Nazis.

          • Jane Doe

            Once a baby is born these fake pro life people don’t give a hoot. Besides it is all about controlling women

          • Frankie Addiego

            No, it’s all about saving lines. But people like you spend all day on Huffpost buying into their worldview and their propaganda.

            Pathetic.

          • Girlfriendathome

            I beg to differ. The Pregnancy Care Center I work for works with the women and men who are interested through an incentive program to teach them about their pregnancy, what to expect, how to take care of their children, and many other topics. We do it through individual classes or group classes they attend as long as the want to attend. They earn points to shop in our lovely Baby Boutique where every thing is donated by individuals, women’s groups, churches, children in schools, Vacation Bible Schools. We encourage our clients to attend at least 10 classes after which we give them a layette. We have a woman who creates a gift basket just for the new mom. We have women who crochet or knit blankets, booties and hats.
            We are not fake pro-life people. Those people do not exist. Pro-life people work to save the lives of babies in many ways, whether it is working or volunteering in pregnancy centers, praying outside an abortion clinic, going to support pro-life legislation at the state or national level, supporting monetarily. We take our commitment to saving babies lives seriously.
            I said all this without one curse word and hopefully with good grammar.

          • Laurie Bertram Roberts

            I give women the same help and they don’t have to “earn” it all they need to do is need the help. I didn’t know people had to be worthy before people should help them. Interesting

          • Kolobok42

            That’s not true; prolifers tend to make up the majority of foster and adoptive parents and donate to charities at a higher rate that those who advocate for abortion.

          • jp

            That’t it? If someone can’t survive on their own, we have the right to do to them what ever we want? Can you spell N A Z I Germany?

          • Jane Doe

            Can you spell Israel, USA Rothschilds?

          • Frankie Addiego

            I think Jane might be anti-semetic.

          • Kolobok42

            So, you are an anti-Semite as well as an illogical troll? Glad you step out and make yourself such a mascot for abortion- it shows the ugliness and core deception of your movement.

          • jp

            I don’t care that the DNA is different. If the fetus cannot survive on its own without being in the womb, it is still a part of my body attached by the umbilical.
            =====

            Basically anyone that cannot survive on their own and requires YOUR resource, that means you have the right to do to them what ever you want. Save us from the likes of you. If this generation takes on more minds such as yourself, we will have another nazi germany. Sad so sad

          • Jane Doe

            Just like the deformed fetus’s in Iraq from depleted uranium. Racists like you give a hoot. So tell me how much you cater to rapist rights!

          • Jonna

            Obviously you are a troll. If you want to talk about deformed babies, how about those that come from the practice of marrying first cousins to each other. Check that out sometime.

            You have done nothing but attack people who are trying to support others in difficult situations. I don’t believe you really care about these babies.

            As for the attack you made on me and my faith in Jesus, sinful man used uranium and rapes women. Not Jesus. He gives us each hope because He loves us enough to take our sins on Himself and pay for them with His lifeblood.

            I’m sorry you are such a bitter person. But, there is still hope for you and His name is Jesus.

          • Alice Lewis-Eckardt

            The Nazis were killers remember? People procuring an abortion are ending their childs life. They are killers.The fact is simple. Children need their parents to survive for many many years. So if your argument is that a fetus can not survive on its own, well neither can an infant or toddler or young child. In fact many eldelry can not either. Think about this really hard and long. Good people do not want to kill their own child. It goes against the basic idea of motherhood, which is to love and care for and protect her child.

          • lcuvillier

            It’s a good thing your mother didn’t have an abortion with you.

          • Jane Doe

            It be nice if your mother had a abortion with you

          • Frankie Addiego

            That’s right, Jane, death is always the answer. You don’t like someone, they should just die, right?

            You’re as stupid as you are cowardly.

          • lcuvillier

            Well she didn’t – so I guess that all is left to do is to pray that Jesus Christ would change your heart that you would see the wrong of abortion.

          • Jenna

            You are simply very simple. I hope God shows you someday how ignorant you are. Murder is murder. People like you are a threat to society. With your mind set, we should just kill who we don’t like. You would kill an infant. which is murder.

          • Frankie Addiego

            “I don’t care that the DNA is different. If the fetus cannot survive on its own without being in the womb, it is still a part of my body attached by the umbilical. ”

            So might makes right. Got it. How “liberal” of you.

          • Sheryl Conerly

            And I definitely wouldn’t consider your third and fourth sources as credible. Looked at the WND.com, not even going to Fox News, or I should say Faux News. Sorry.

          • Kathryn A. O’Keefe

            Hmm, that’s funny, because the Fox news link, at least, is only a video of a pro-choice lobbyist making a testimony, not a splurge about how pro-choicers are “evil, horrible, blah, blah, blah.” the video is relevant to the discussion. If you prefer not to listen to the video from Fox news, then here you go:

            http://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2013/03/29/planned-parenthood-official-endorses-right-to-kill-babies-born-alive-n1553161

            http://www.thenewamerican.com/culture/faith-and-morals/item/14987-planned-parenthood-rep-gives-chilling-testimony-on-post-birth-abortion

            http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/video-planned-parenthood-official-argues-right-post-birth-abortion_712198.html

            http://aclj.org/planned-parenthood/planned-parenthood-stunning-honesty-post-birth-abortions

            It’s the same video on every single one of those, except the first, which just quotes it. Or you could just Google “Alisa Laplot Snow post-birth abortion testimony.”

            Also, as pointed out before, your logic on when a person qualifies as being a person can be applied to anyone who needs to be cared for physically by another person. The level of care varies, and logically, the younger any creature is, the more care they’re going to need. The type of care needed by a living creature doesn’t validate the destruction of that thing, human or not. Simply because you weren’t talking about the instances referenced, doesn’t mean the logic can’t be applied to them, or hasn’t been already.

          • Frankie Addiego

            See that, Sheryl’s making excuses because she’s a frightened little girl. Hiding behind the reputations of biased news sources, even though I’ll bet she spends half her time on Huff Post.

            Of course, Sheryl can’t just face the fact that abortion is about killing babies.

          • Frankie Addiego

            Also: when people lay this “Faux” news thing… they do realized “Faux” is pronounced like Foe, right? Cuz it’s a French word and the X is silent?

          • Basset_Hound

            Not only that, but the only reason the fetus is in the woman’s body in the first place is because of an act that, in the VAST majority of cases a woman willingly chose to commit. It didn’t spontaneously mutate from another type of cell like a tumor.

          • Nancy Richard Colburn

            What a shameless lie.

          • Kathryn A. O’Keefe

            Did you even watch the video? Seriously, you’re saying that I’m shamelessly lying here, but haven’t backed up you comments with anything other than your own opinion. I’m backing up my statement with numerous different sources, but I’m the shameless liar? There currently is no law allowing “post-birth” abortion, as Snow labeled it, but radical pro-choicers have been pushing for there to be laws allowing it.

          • Frankie Addiego

            You’re right, Nancy. Once the child is out of the body, it’s a contradiction in terms. Once the child survives the abortion attempt and they let it–or cause it–to die, it’s just plain ole vanilla infanticide.

            But that’s probably not what you wanted to hear. You probably just wanted to hear, “OH, ABORTION IS A RIGHT, AND ABORTION PROVIDERS ARE INFALLIBLE, AND IT’S FOX SO IT CAN’T BE TRUE!!!!”

          • Nancy Richard Colburn

            Shameless lie.

          • Mary Lee

            We do have the right to tell you what to do with someone else’s body. The law tells us not to infringe on other’s bodies all the time. It’s not your body that’s chopped up and thrown in a biohazard bag, is it? The child is not your property, is not a parasite, is not an extension of you. The child has his or her own body, is his or her own self, and has his or her own bodily integrity. Parking your car in my garage does not make your car my car, nor part of my garage. The child is a separate person; dependence does not negate individuality. So, yes. We can tell you not to kill your own child and throw him or her into the garbage.

          • Sherry Francis

            By that logic,you could kill a baby a minute before it is born, since it’s a “part of your body”, Wait…you would kill it even after, since the umbilical cord would still be attached to the placenta, still in your body. A tampon is in your body also, that doesn’t mean it’s your body.

          • Jane Doe

            Need medication or you always this confused?

          • jp

            gee here you go here is something you can do with your body. How about not having sex till you know you want a child????

            And what about the childs body? Only a sick mind would think of a child in your body as trespassing your PERSONAL PROPERTY.

          • Jane Doe

            How about embracing sex education and birth control instead of fighting obamacare and other programs that provide birth control!

          • Frankie Addiego

            Yes, Jane, everyone knows that once you take sex education and go on birth control, that makes it impossible to get pregnant.

            Also, sarcasm aside, I don’t think anyone’s against “sex-education,” these people just buy the bullshit that in some states they refuse to let kids know that birth control even exists, while they believe that in California, they actually go as far as to train you how to put a condom on your wang and every parent in the state puts their girls on the pill during the summer between 6th and 7th grade.

          • Bobby V

            So by your logic it would be ok for a person to kill their conjoined twin, as they are connected and therefore the same entity?

          • Jane Doe

            Are you a semese twin?

          • Frankie Addiego

            Just answer his question, Jane: is it okay for one siamese twin to kill the other?

          • Basset_Hound

            You can’t drive drunk or stoned, even though it’s your body. You can’t rape or assault another person, even though it’s your body. You can’t use crack, meth or a various assortment of other substances, even though it’s your body.

          • 441019

            This will make you really mad–but you did not create your own body. It is the Creator that has the ultimate authority over your body. You didn’t give yourself life, and you don’t know when your life will end. You don’t have the right to abuse your body with drugs or alcohol or to commit suicide. It is true that people have free will, but free will means that you have to accept the consequences, good or bad, for everything that you decide to do.

          • Jane Doe

            yes the ultimate authority so lets embrace rape and children from rapists ooraw ooraw hahahaha

          • tami

            Sheryl just go right ahead with what you have been convinced by societal beliefs NOT! You are deceived….The fact of the matter is it is your body and choose to do what you want with it, YES. BUT the body that is in your body is NOT your body but another person’s body, and they have the same right as you, and you would tell someone with a knife over your throat I want to live! What makes you think that body in your body does not want to live too?

          • jhd

            Thank you, Tami!!

          • Frankie Addiego

            And of course, Sheryl’s wrong because there are things we’re not allowed to do “with our bodies.” That’s where the concept of illegal narcotics came from: we ought not put certain substances into our bodies. So this idea that inside your body is a sacred space that they can’t pass laws to govern simply isn’t true.

            Also, it’s not anti-choice: it’s anti-abortion. Pro/anti-choice is just a propaganda term, and while you’re gullible enough to fall for it, I’m not.

          • Frankie Addiego

            But you’re talking about rational pro-abortioners (I still hesitate to call them pro-choicers) because the whole “my body/my choice” thing pretty much makes all discussion about life irrelevant.

            Look at SC. She waves that banner and had her weak-@$$ definition of life as when it could sustain itself independently. And when someone pointed out the flaw in her logic, she lost her marbles, accusing that person of putting words in her mouth (to say the least) as if she thought that person literally accused her of saying whatever it was.

            The problem is that people like her DON’T really have a standard based on anything but convenience. Therefore, the truth is that they don’t really care when life begins.

            And if that’s the case, what moral authority do they have to oppose killing in any situation, let-alone us trying to fight against abortion?

          • Mary Lee

            Well, technically it is. Your side dehumanizes these human beings in order to justify their killing. These are either human beings, or they are not. We do not “become” human persons. We *are* human persons. Your side discriminates against age, size, and “function.” All that is needed to be considered a person is to be a person. All that is needed to be considered a human being is to be a member of the human race. These are baby humans. Abortion advocates have already admitted this. Why can’t you? Mary Elizabeth Williams wrote that these are indeed baby human lives, but lives worth killing.

            The pro-abortion argument is: Might makes right. That is what every single pro-abortion argument comes down to.

          • Jane Doe

            Mary Lee lets harass women who give birth even to rapists children and lets make sure rapists get custody rights! OH ya lovely

          • Frankie Addiego

            That’s the problem with cowards like “Jane” here. All they can see is a “rapist’s child,” as though sons and daughters are responsible for the sins of the fathers.

            Some pro-lifers would make a rape exception and some wouldn’t. But as far as people like “Jane” are concerned, unwanted children are just a venereal disease.

            Finally, it’s funny. The only person here harassing people is “Jane.” And something tells me “she” does it a lot.

          • Jonna

            She does.

          • Jonna

            It’s not the brave woman who chooses life for her innocent baby who chooses to give custody rights to rapists. It’s some idiot liberal judges. Get your facts straight, Janey dear.

          • Ann Shideler

            Evil is the person who would force a child to give birth after rape or incest. Faux Chirstians…their thoughts come from some Bible thumping sexist preacher and not the Bible.

          • Mary Lee

            Well, technically it is. Your side dehumanizes these human beings in order to justify their killing. These are either human beings, or they are not. We do not “become” human persons. We *are* human persons. Your side discriminates against age, size, and “function.” All that is needed to be considered a person is to be a person. All that is needed to be considered a human being is to be a member of the human race. These are baby humans. Abortion advocates have already admitted this. Why can’t you? Mary Elizabeth Williams wrote that these are indeed baby human lives, but lives worth killing.

            The pro-abortion argument is: Might makes right. That is what every single pro-abortion argument comes down to.

          • Veronica Copple

            Well, it certainly isn’t about killing puppies or kittens……. you get the idea.

          • Jenna

            OMG you hAVE TO BE KIDDING. I didn’t know there were actually people who deep down inside didn’t know abortion is MURDER and killing people is Murder. If someone is not carrying an actual child, then they aren’t pregnant. :My point, ABORTION IS KILLING A LIVING BABY, A BABY IS A PERSON.

          • Nancy Richard Colburn

            MURDER MURDER MURDER MURDER.

          • Jane Doe

            The only murder is when these broads judge other women when they never been in there shoes.

          • Frankie Addiego

            Hilarious. Jane accuses us of “judging” women who have had abortions, when we’re just calling a spade a spade; meanwhile all this miserable bitch has done is judge everyone who disagrees with her.

          • Jane Doe

            Muslim babies do not count in this equation right? Just white babies and Jewish babies!

          • Frankie Addiego

            She laid this stupid shit on me earlier, and it’s just going by the assumption that we’re all war-hawks because if we’re against abortion, we must conform to all the “conservative views” outlined in her 12th grade poli-sci textbook.

          • jhd

            Psst…Sheryl: That’s EXACTLY what abortion is about!!!! IT’S MURDER!!!! PERIOD!!!!!! The people that believe that ABORTION IS not MURDER, are SELF RIGHTEOUS, CONSCIENCE SEARED MURDERERS!!!

          • Nancy Richard Colburn

            DO YOU GET OFF ON THAT WORD???

          • Jane Doe

            A self proclaimed expert from the peanut gallery?

          • Frankie Addiego

            Psssst, Sheryl: that’s exactly what abortion is about. Except that you buy into propaganda that tells you it’s about womens’ rights, when all it does is put you at the mercy of an industry that preys on their misfortune.

            But hey: you’re a big feminist hero, aren’t you? It takes a big woman to kill a little baby.

          • Frankie Addiego

            By the way, Sheryl, I can’t seem to get anyone to answer this question: if someone survives an abortion attempt, do they deserve to die because the mother didn’t want them, or should they be resuscitated like anyone else. Simple question: yes or no.

        • Jane Doe

          Have no problems killing Muslim babies with depleted uranium! OOPPS we are just racist control freaks right?

          • Frankie Addiego

            Yeah, I do have a problem killing Muslim babies with depleted uranium. But I’m not the one trying to make anti-war activists out to be evil.

        • Laurie Bertram Roberts

          I had forgot about this page but my daughter and I don’t have the same religious beliefs if you must know

      • bradgates

        Abolitionists were also condemned for seeking “to make dogma and religious belief law”.

      • Faye Valentine

        “I have lessons to do now.”

        I hope you’re talking about your own homework rather than preparing to teach others. They don’t need your brand of ignorance foist upon them.

        • Laurie Bertram Roberts

          Insulting my intelligence certainly proves your point on how much better than me you are- carry on.

          • Calvin Freiburger

            Well, the comment about pro-lifers being “people who want to make dogma and religious belief law” was either severe ignorance or intentional dishonesty. Take your pick.

    • 441019

      Kelsey: I believe in reincarnation and I am strongly anti-abortion, pro-life. Believing in reincarnation usually goes along with a belief in the law of karma–which means that you have to pay for every single action you perform–there is a “karmic debt.” If you take someone’s life, you have to pay for that. If you don’t pay in this life, you will have to be reborn and suffer in a later life for what you did in this life.

    • Frankie Addiego

      Yeah, the problem with it is that these “beliefs” are designed for no other reason than to rationalize the abortion. They’re not based on anything concrete nor are they based on established philosophy. It’s just, “okay, well, that’s what happened so I don’t have to feel so bad.”

    • Jonna

      This is also a reason some teens suicide. They don’t equate death as finite. A teen, whose friend had committed suicide actually said, “He didn’t mean to die, just to commit suicide.” There are also some teachings that flat-out tell them the baby will be recreated in another woman’s body.

      They are being lied to by the abortionists, the media and especially, the liberals who claim to care for them.

    • Ann Shideler

      It is medical care, not like the crazy view of religion that you have. You do not get to force others to do what you think is right.

  • Shanna C

    Oh my gosh! I NEVER got it until I read Kayla’s line at the end!! I did not realize that the justification is in the disembodiment of the spirit!!! She believes that the flesh and soul are separate, and that her child’s soul will bounce back to the soul holding room and wait for the next “ready” baby-maker. She does not believe she killed her baby. This is so necessary for me to understand. Thanks for your post.

    • Frankie Addiego

      Yup. By this logic, we should just go around killing people who are in an bad situation because their spirits will then inhabit someone more fortunate.

      • Ann Shideler

        Like the healthcare workers who have been murdered by people who appose abortion? If you think Jesus would approve of that, you are one sick faux Christian puppy!

    • bradgates

      Slavers frequently reasoned that they were doing blacks a favor by keeping them in bondage.
      Same logic. Different era.

      • Nancy Richard Colburn

        When did y’all start using this analogy? I started hearing it this year.

        • Frankie Addiego

          Oh, it goes back a ways. That’s only because it’s the truth.

      • Ann Shideler

        Then quit trying to restrict the legal rights of others who believe differently that you do. So,,,what are your thoughts on food stamps, the death penalty, and Meals on Wheels for the hungry elderly?

    • Jonna

      She doesn’t understand we are not bodies with souls, but souls encased in bodies.

    • Ann Shideler

      So, Republicans have hit an all time low in the polls…the lowest ever since they started taking polls. Perhaps I am not the only American who believes you have no right to tell others how they should think. Anti-women Cuccinelli in VA is losing even if they do get away with flushing 57,000 people off the voter list. I would pray for you but think your heart is set in stone.

  • Infinite Grace

    My mom “helped” me to decide to get an abortion – that worked out really
    well. I live with pain, regret, depression… every single day of my
    life. http://www.postabortionwalk.blogspot.com

    • Laurie Bertram Roberts

      I am sincerely sorry that’s YOUR story it’s not my daughter’s

      • Laurie

        Yet.

      • Infinite Grace

        It will be, I promise you. You can’t go through an abortion unscathed – it’s impossible.

        • PamelaWatters

          One in three women in the US have an abortion by the age of 45. Are you saying 1/3 of women in this country are in pain & depressed….I don’t think so.

          • Thorien

            Well, a quarter of us are on antidepressants: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/16/women-and-prescription-drug-use_n_1098023.html Maybe the rest are undiagnosed/untreated/sociopaths?

          • Frankie Addiego

            No, after-all, the pro-abortion crowd is doing everything in their power to prevent women from regretting abortion and telling them they stood up for “equality” for killing someone whose only crime was being conceived before they were ready for them.

            Fortunately, not every woman in the US is 45 or older, and there’s still hope, but not with people like the mother in this story.

          • Jane Doe

            OH worry about your own house and leave everyone elses home alone. When you live in a glass house you best not throw stones Frankie.

          • Frankie Addiego

            What I love about many abortion-lovers is that they say, “mind your own business, mind your own business,” but they love to get in other peoples’ faces.

            Now, the question these people have to face is this: if they found out their neighbor was molesting his/her kids, would they feel it was “their business” and do something thereby showing that sometimes other peoples’ business IS your business? Or are they really so cowardly/heartless/lazy they’d just say, “ah, who gives a shit?”

          • Rebekah

            I would be really surprised if the number of women who have suffered depression or pain at some time in their lives is that low.

          • Jane Doe

            Would you really give a damn? No of course not. Worry about your own house and leave everyone elses home alone.

          • Rebekah

            How do you know? Have you met me?

          • LoveTheLeast8

            1) One can heal from abortion. Many people that lead and work in the pro-life movement are post-abortive for example.
            2) Research has shown the suicide rates, mental health issues, etc are all much higher in women who have had abortions. The causation of this is debated but the facts that it exists is clear in modern science.
            3) Minor point… the lifetime abortion rate isn’t 1 in 3 but 30%. It was higher in the past and in dropping and will continue to drop based on current abortion rate trends.

          • adaynasmile

            Actually the majority of America is depressed. There are millions on antidepressants. People do heal from their abortions. But people are also in pain and depressed. And yes, there are some who are lying to themselves and do not feel anything in regards to their abortions. Most of them are people who believe as this young girl does, that their babies weren’t really killed. It is very sad. The simple fact is that a baby is a baby from the time of conception. Ending that baby’s life is by definition murder. Honestly, arguing that point is silly since it is a scientifically proven.

        • Jen

          Honey, let me tell you – I was FAR more scarred by the inescapable knowledge that my life was considered to be far less important than that of a fetus with absolutely NO chance of life, by weeks of terror as I wondered with every small stomach twinge if THIS was the moment my placenta had detached and was I already bleeding to death internally, and by her subsequent birth and immediate death in my arms as she struggled for a breath her completely undeveloped brain wouldn’t allow her, than I EVER would have been had I been allowed the abortion my doctor recommended.

          • Thorien

            I am so sorry you went through that. I have no idea what that is like, but I do know that the situation described in the article is not the same.

          • Jen

            Point taken, but I wasn’t responding to the article itself. I was responding to Infinite Grace’s assertion that one cannot go through an abortion unscathed. :)

          • Thorien

            I think Infinite Grace could still be correct; as awful as your situation was, it’s unrelated to the question of whether or not abortion leaves scars. Would they be larger or smaller than the ones you bear? I don’t know; however, that isn’t the issue.

          • bradgates

            Her story is concocted from pro-abort PR talking points … go onto prolife sites and post some heartbreaking story that’s supposed to show the “benign” side of abortion.
            It’s a sick, manipulative lie.

          • Sherry Francis

            There is not a very good chance for a baby like that to even survive to be born,; If a baby truly would be better off to die, it usually results in a miscarriage and there would be no need for abortion.

          • Elaine Heritage

            I’m sorry you experience the trauma of losing your child naturally and you didn’t kill your child yourself…so sad :(

          • Jen

            You know, I don’t usually go here, but… feel free to go perform a physically impossible sex act upon yourself. And may you never experience the trauma of watching your daughter screaming in anguish as her own child seizes and dies in her arms. :D

          • Mary Lee

            Jen, I am so sorry that happened. And I do not support Elaine’s comment, that is just cruel.

          • Dianne Myers

            No, Jen. Your life is not, was not, and never will be of less value than that of another human being. That being said it is not worth more than that of an another human being either. Every effort should have been made to give you comfort, compassion and care during your difficult pregnancy. Every effort should have been made for both you and your baby, and every effort should have been made to comfort you in your loss. To give you comfort where it was needed however, first we have to acknowledge the humanity of your child. We have to acknowledge the humanity of EVERY CHILD… How do you comfort a mother who miscarries her child if you simply see that child as a lump of cells?
            That was your daughter. What if you had went ahead with an abortion and the doctor had been wrong? It would not be the first time, babies have survived attempted abortions and turned out to have absolutely nothing wrong. Very often they cannot tell you the degree of disability either? What if that child had only been mildly disabled? Is a child worthy of death simply for being disabled?
            Death, simply put is not a cure for a human patient. It is an end for a human patient and each and every patient should have all the care that his or her care givers can give them. Care, not simply being written off and snuffed out.
            Considering that less than 3% of abortions are for things like birth defects, pregnancy difficulties and the like, that would mean that greater than 97% of abortions are for convenience. Yet we kill 90% of all babies who are diagnosed in the womb with down syndrome.
            Even if I believe your story, which I am still taking with a grain of salt, That baby is still human and her life is just as important as yours is. At least she had the opportunity to try to draw a breath.
            I shudder to think what would have happened if the OBGYN who delivered me would have known how difficult it was going to be for me to breath with blue baby syndrome. Considering he walked in and the first words out of his mouth were “Oh well, You win some, you lose some”. The babies those doctors deliver should never be just another paycheck. If you can’t remember the humanity of the babies you deliver, you should not be delivering babies.
            I survived a syndrome that killed the Kennedy Baby… with the best doctors in the world that baby died. In our local hospital with doctors who had faith that I was in God’s hands, I survived. I survived a syndrome that the doctor who delivered me wrote me off as being “lost” . I was basically, at birth, written off as having a condition that would take my life. Guess what, 42 years later, I AM STILL HERE!
            Thank God I was born in 1971, before Roe v Wade to a mother who would not have allowed a doctor to abort me even if it was post 1973. Twenty years after me when my brother was born thank God I have a mom who refused amniocentesis because it was a risk when she would not have an abortion for ANY reason.
            My brother survived a motor vehicle accident at the age of 7… He walks, he talks he reads and he writes. He has achieved, done and continues to do more than his doctors ever thought possible. He even drives a car, after all his extensive brain trauma… Some of the pain he went through is unspeakable. The mental pain of his family, undeniable.
            I would take every flashback, every night waking up seeing all those lights and sirens, seeing him looking barely human laying in that bed…every trip to the courtroom to make sure his needs were provided for… I would take every sleepless night…the tears….. I would even take seeing him have a seizure from the brain injuries than to have written him off and stopped praying for his healing… Thank God we never gave up praying for him to heal… Thank God that we knew to give HIM the praise when my brother did get on his feet, when he did start driving a car, when he did graduate high school…
            Had he not made it, we would have given God praise for knowing better than we did…even in our pain and loss, what was best for my brother…but we never would have had the guilt of writing our loved one off as “lost”. We would have been grateful for every moment we had with him, no matter how painful it was, because we at least had a moment to express our love, and our gratitude for having that moment in time.
            I am blessed, because I have a mother and my siblings have a mother who would walk through hell and back to take care of her babies, and leave it up to the Lord to decide the fate of her children. We should all be blessed with such mothers. Especially those who have a rocky start in life. Especially those who have a rocky time beyond that beginning. All children should be so blessed. It was an act of extreme Grace that GOD gave me to a mother like mine>

          • Frankie Addiego

            Jen, if you’re talking about a pregnancy where your life was legitimately in danger (which I doubt, but for the sake of argument, I’ll cede) then many of us would consider it a case of self-defense and that abortion should not be a punishable offense in those cases.

            But if that’s not the case, don’t give us this crap about your life being seen as less valuable. Furthermore, insulting us doesn’t help your cause.

          • bradgates

            Frankie, it’s a fake story.
            Pro aborts go onto prolife sites and post “heartbreaking” stories designed to show the “benevolent” side of abortion.
            It’s manipulative and false.

          • Jane Doe

            It feels good to tell self proclaimed lunatics off without the worry of being arrested! Now run along and watch your own household.

          • Jonna

            I’m sorry you had such a horrible experience. But, honestly, most abortions are done on healthy babies. In your case, I would probably have made the same decision, to give my baby the best chance at life. Doctors aren’t always right about the outcome of a pregnancy, troubled or seemingly normal. There are many miracle stories of babies who survived healthy when a doctor preached doom. God bless you for trying and may He soothe your pain.

          • Kathryn A. O’Keefe

            Agreed. My mom was told that she likely wouldn’t be able to have kids, or that if she ever did get pregnant, she or the fetus would likely die.

            22 years later, she has six kids.

          • Jane Doe

            So and the cow jumped over the moon and got its horn caught on the BS

          • Kathryn A. O’Keefe

            You guys say that we’re the problem, yet you don’t even respond to a serious comment with anything even remotely serious. Whether you like it or not, what I said in my comments has been true, and until you can actually come up with some plausible evidence to disprove it, you’re doing absolutely nothing to convince anyone that you have even a single valid argument.

            Until you do actually post something semi-serious, instead of just doing a pathetic job at trolling, I’m not going to respond to you on this topic.

          • PrincessJasmine4

            Jen,

            We can disagree on everything, and even hate each other.
            But for this, I am truly sorry.

            I am so sorry you had to got thru that.
            I mean that sincerely.

          • sarah5775

            She’s lying. There is no state in the country that bans abortions in that case

          • Jane Doe

            All these pro life self proclaimed experts are liars

        • Guest

          No it is NOT impossible. IF it is IMPOSSIBLE, it would because those who should be giving out love are doling out shaming. I’ve had 2 abortions and I never have had any regret, pain, depression, thoughts of suicide, et cetera. This is just another indoctrination by the Pro-fetus crowd to keep telling women they HAVE to suffer to further an agenda. MY Mom helped me through the first one also and she never regretted it either. I find it ironic that you use “INFINITE GRACE” when that is what you deliberate deny. G-d can and will grant infinite grace, not you.

          • Sherry Francis

            I don’t think it’s an indoctrnation I think they are assuming pro-choice people actually feel remorse…people who steal and lie and cheat and murder don’t feel remorse a lot of times either. So by saying you will regret it, they are warning those who will feel remorse, based on others who have gone through it.

          • Jane Doe

            feel remorse trying to force a 9 year old pregnant raped victim by her uncle to give birth Sherry? Story in Kansas

          • Sherry Francis

            You say that like it’s the abortion norm. Something like that would be an entirely different topic not under abortion or womens rights anyway.

        • Jane Doe

          IT be nice to go through a rape then have to share custody with the rapist. Of course if the child is deformed or disabled the rapist daddy will not want it!

      • SandyLester

        So you are happy you helped your daughter kill your grandchild.
        wow

        • Jane Doe

          Wow Sandy what is happening in your own house! Self proclaimed experts need to worry about there own house and not someone elses.

          • SandyLester

            What, this woman is celebrating she helped her daughter kill her grandchild, did you not read the article.

    • Jonna

      I’m so sorry you had to go through this. The only way I know to help you with your pain is to accept two things: God loves you and sent His Son to die for your sins, you must forgive yourself. Then share your story with other young women and hopefully, they will listen and save their babies’ lives. God bless you.

      • Jane Doe

        OH sweet Jonna always having Jesus in the picture. I suppose it is Jesus will that depleted uranium has deformed Arab babies! Oh and rape is Gods gift to women! Just love fake Christians as yourself dear.

        • Jonna

          I am not the fake here, Janey dear. I really feel sad for you.

    • 441019

      Infinite Grace: I am very sorry, also, that you had to go through this. I believe that abortion is wrong–a sin–but it’s important to remember that God is infinitely merciful. You must sincerely repent and ask God for forgiveness and for help to go on with your life.

  • Melissa

    Proud of Laurie, Proud of Kayla, and sickened by “Kristen”. No Feminist wants the state to control her body if she becomes pregnant – “Kristen” is simply deluded.

    Abortion on demand, without apology – always.

    • Calvin Freiburger

      Yet apparently not proud enough to actually describe the procedure you’re defending, rather than hiding it behind misleading euphemisms like “control her body.”

    • SandyLester

      Two walk into the clinic, one walks out.
      Murder on demand is the liberal mantra.

  • Nancy Richard Colburn

    What was the author’s point in this post?

  • anna

    just like its not a constitutional issue but everyone thinks it is…..and civil rights issue means rights that people fight for fairness not killing others. all this over a 1970’s court case that you now can kill your unborn for your convenience but its inconvenient for you to keep your legs closed. if you have time to screw you have time to take responsibility for the person you made. it just teaches girls you can screw as much as you want you can always get an abortion we are raising the slut generation. and just for information this is how diseases are spread.

    • Unicorn Farm

      But, but Calvin, I thought anti-choicers weren’t interested in policing women’s sex lives, calling them sluts, and admonishing them to keep their legs closed! I thought it was about the baybeeees!

      • Tonya

        Unicorn…..sex makes those baybeeees. All that public school sex end didn’t teach you that?

        • Jane Doe

          Of course not sweetie. Tea party self proclaimed experts like yourself threw funding out the window when it comes to sex education in public schools.

      • Jane Doe

        It is all about controlling women and being judgmental broads they know how to be.

  • katrina byrd

    It takes a village to raise one child. No matter where we stand on this issue we must all ask ourselves some pretty tough questions. Where was that village when this 15 year old was faced with this life changing decision? Is projecting my opinion onto others more important than recognizing that they’re human? I do not have all of the answers but I do know that I am in no position to point the finger of shame at her or her mother. I have failed them both. I was not there. I have not made myself, my time, my money or any other of my resources available to them. The bottom line is, no matter where you stand on the issue of abortion, loving, supporting ladies faced with this issue is hard work. The easy part is shaking the finger of blame after a decision has been made.

    • Tonya

      Been reading too many Hillary Clinton books, eh?

      • katrina byrd

        I’ve not read any Hilary Clinton books.

  • melly

    murderer!

  • Justsayong

    Point is just because 2 teenagers (not adults or even young adults) were irresponsible and had sex and screwed up does not mean that they should kill a child (embryo fetus whatever it is a developing child. It wont develop into a dolphin or something else).. Shut ur legs and dont have sex at 15. And if u are “adult enough to have sex” “your adult enough to deal with the natural blessing of sex”.

  • Thorien

    She named her baby and then aborted her? This is beyond twisted.

    • SandyLester

      She named her baby and then aborted her? This is beyond twisted.
      Actually, she named her baby and killed the baby, and celebrated the murder.

      • Jane Doe

        OH another self proclaimed expert by a woman who has her head stuck up her ………..

        • SandyLester

          I agree the grandmother celebrating the abortion of her grandchild does have her head stuck.

  • mmr

    The paragraph about the condom breaking even when individuals are educated in their use was, I believe, misread by the author. I believe the author interpreted it to mean that the woman felt that if her daughter had put on the condom, it wouldn’t have been a problem or if the boy had been educated in its use their wouldn’t have been a problem. I interpreted it differently. I understood it to say that her daughter, who was properly educated, used a condom that happened to fail. As a result she can only imagine how frequently these failures happen among those who are not educated in their use. It still shows that education isn’t everything, people still make decisions in spite of having information to the contrary.

  • Frankie Addiego

    On top of everything else, she admitted that her daughter was taught about contraception, yet somehow still got pregnant. I guess all that condom-on-a-cucumber stuff isn’t any more effective than abstinence.

  • Elaine Heritage

    Appears Mom was able to make this about her, and she told her child some whimsical heartwarming tales about spirits and such. No where was their any talk about destroying God’s creation also no where did I see that her life would be put in danger and she could die as indicated by one commenter. It is wrong it is murder…period…no excuse will ever make abortion alright.

    • Jen

      I would appreciate it if you would stop twisting my words around to fit your personal agenda. I brought up my situation in a response to something another commenter said, it was not meant as a comment on the original article. Nowhere did I EVER state in ANY way that THIS pregnancy was life-threatening – only mine.

  • SandyLester

    Pro-abortion Mom of Year: “I don’t regret helping my 15-year-old daughter kill my grandchild”
    There fixed it.

  • Enchanted Enchiladas

    honestly if Kayla felt that her child would go on to a mother that was ready for her she would have had the baby and give it up for adoption not had an abortion. It’s just a rubbish puff piece. I doubt this story is true.

    • Frankie Addiego

      Here’s the beautiful thing: I remember reading someone opposing adoption as an alternative to abortion (and by “opposing” I mean just thinking it’s a bad idea, not necessarily opposing it legally) because they would always wonder what ever happened to it.

      Because it appears the subject was kind enough to join us, I’m wondering what her thoughts on that supposition are.

      • Josie08

        If you want, you CAN know what happened to it if you choose open adoption.

  • Rebekah

    In my opinion, the only way to stop teen pregnancy is teen abstinence.

    • Frankie Addiego

      That actually brings up another good point: abstaining from sex until you’re married seems to be such an anathema to them, but what if more were done to encourage teens to wait until they were 18? After-all, what’s the point of statutory rape laws if we just have this “kids will be kids” attitude about two 14-17 year-olds?

      • Basset_Hound

        It’s been shown that people who are successful in delaying their first sexual contact until their 20’s are far more likely to have higher level of academic and professional achievement.

        • Unicorn Farm

          Did they show correlation or causation?

        • Rebekah

          That just makes sense. A kid who can control their sexual urges will probably learn to control themselves in other ways. For example, they might choose to study instead of going to a party, which leads to higher grades.

          But, even if there were no other benefits, I think that not having to deal with STD’s, unplanned pregnancy, and emotional heartache might be reasons enough to choose abstinence. I think that the reason teens are not choosing abstinence is that adults are telling them that they’re incapable of self-control. Our culture is bombarding teens with messages that tell them that virginity is uncool, that everybody is having premarital and extramarital sex, and that if you happen to get pregnant, there’s always abortion to solve the problem. Instead, what if we sent a message to teens that they are not animals, are capable of self-control, and that abortion doesn’t solve anything? What if we told them that sex inside of marriage is true safe sex? Maybe then abortion would truly be rare, or at least rarer.

      • Thorien

        Because to kids 18 will seem arbitrary. Maybe 25-ish, when their brains are supposed to be fully matured? But even so, parents do better when they have a partner to share the responsibilities with, and marriage provides legal protections if one partner decides to split or otherwise neglect his/her responsibilities.

  • Merrie Spencer Rancourt

    Even if that mother is Hindu, what a stupid justification for killing yet another child “of color”.

  • Angel Pruitt

    This parent as well as her uneducated, murdering daughter need to be strung up and tortured in public. THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR MURDERING A CHILD, NONE!! Good thing that did not happen where I live, they would no longer be alive, there are too many rednecks that would love to hang her ass for killing an innocent baby that deserved the right to live. I hope she never gets any res taking her childs life. This is sick!!!!

    • Moonlight Iris

      We kill to show killing is wrong, I don’t understand your logic. While I don’t agree with the actions, I think people who react with such hate as this give Pro-Life a bad reputation…

  • Angel Pruitt

    Any so called mother that helps out and allows their child to kill their own baby should be charged along with their child for 1st degree murder. You have no right telling your daughters to kill their babies, my GOD people, educate your daughters into NOT having sex till r marriage and then there would be no so called “mistakes”. There is no such thing. Abortion is MURDER, flat out murder. Get a life and help save one.

    • justavenger

      Thank you Angel, our grandchildren born out of wedlock just got out of the shower and are getting ready for school now. If we had done like this evil wench they would be dead instead of living back in my home. We did teach waiting till marriage but horny kids never listen. These children are a blessing.

  • justavenger

    Mother is a murderer, daughter is a baby killer also, that’s keeping it all in the family!
    And all you other baby killers spare us your indignant whining you evil killers of innocent human beings and should be ashamed of yourselves.

  • Ruby

    Some people should be born sterile till a certain age and some need to be sterile period let that solve the problem.

  • Guest

    Yes let them get abortions and they might as well because some people do not deserve to be mothers. Might as well lower the earths population. Some women get abortions young and are unable to have babies when they are older in life. I wonder how they feel about it now and to be very honest I hope that would happen more often so they can think back on it.

  • Jenna

    Eww….and she actually calls them “children.” She’s ok with and actually advocating for children engaging in these activities? Totally appalling! “Guess what sometimes they fail. Especially, when children who aren’t educated in their use like my child is are the ones placing them on their penis.”

  • Moonlight Iris

    Well, I have a feeling that I will be ripped apart for my opinions, but why not put them out there? I thought this article covering “I Don’t Regret Helping My Daughter Get an Abortion,” was a tad misleading, and demeaning to the family and the people involved. Firstly, it’s emotionally based, and therefore, most of it can be considered invalid; let me explain…
    In the writer’s first quoted phrase, he makes it sound as if the mother has failed to do any of the things she mentioned. Many, many people, even with the most supportive families aren’t comfortable with talking to their parents, in this case, her mother. Teenagers make mistakes, and sometimes they don’t think in a moment of heat. This even happens to adults, going against everything we know because our bodies say something else. So, while the author doesn’t need to have a shocked expression, it should be noted that we don’t know, nor should we automatically assume that she failed in her duties to inform her daughter.
    The second quote tells that the mother wanted to support her daughter, and let it be her decision. This can be stemmed down to her belief, in her actual blog she does admit that, “Yet my mind immediately did judge and I wanted to shake her.” The author goes on to say that the daughter is “really awesome at choosing how to handle things, etc…” I think this isn’t fair to the daughter, not the mother. We all make mistakes, and as much as people hate to admit it, sometimes you really can’t control children in every way. It goes into the saying, “Strict parents just make sneaky kids.” It would be inhumane to lock children away from the world, so while she may have made a mistake, it’s not up to the author to automatically assume again. Furthermore, just because our system doesn’t say that a 15 is responsible with voting, or the military, doesn’t mean they are totally incapable. There is reasoning’s behind the drinking, military, and even driving; it’s not just there age alone- other factors contributed to these as well. Again, the author continues with their emotionally written post, and says that “No, go ahead and let her decide the fare of another human life and her entire future.” As stated in the blog written by the mother, it does note that the daughter has an illness where it can be potentially dangerous for her to bore a child- this is one of the gray areas (Which DO exist, if you see the world in black and white, you’re blind,) of abortion. Baby versus mother. Now, I have no idea what this disease is, nor do I care to; all I know is that this could be dangerous and it’s different when you’re in the situation. Some mothers would gladly risk their lives, even for the slightest chance of their babes living; others, like the daughter, aren’t ready for that, and want to go on living. Were you all ready to die at 15? I don’t think this is an excuse for getting pregnant, but I think it should be a factor considered before we so harshly judge. So, at 15, should you be able to decide to go through awful pain and die, or live?
    Then the author goes off about condoms failing, and sarcastically suggests drills for condoms. I don’t think that’s what the mother was trying to suggest, I think she’s simply saying that whomever her daughter was engaging sexual actions with, may not have put it on properly. Maybe it slid off, and he didn’t feel it; or maybe it did break; let’s assume this is true- that something with the condom DID fail. The daughter was trying to prevent this pregnancy, and yes, some times all the “sex-ed” does fail; here’s a fact though, condoms are at least an attempt at lessening the risk of unplanned pregnancy; so, is the author suggesting we cut it out then? By the article, it seems the author thinks that the mother is trying to say that the sex-ed program wasn’t enough, I haven’t seen any remarks, other than the fact that the user may not have know to use a condom.

    Let me continue this with a little story; when I was in my sophomore year of High School, I took a class where I had to take the baby with me for a weekend. Well, Sunday strolls around and I have to bring this plastic doll with me to service. If you all think you don’t judge….boy, guess again. Even if you personally don’t judge, where are YOU when you see a girl getting teased, or even looked down on for keeping their children? Or are you secretly thinking how much of a “wh*re” she is? Even the pastor was uncomfortable with me being there, as none of them could see it was just a doll- blankets and such. Not one person talked to me, nor asked if I needed guidance, and I was sitting there, with a whining plastic babe in hand.

    As for the last sentence, it’s her beliefs- so be it that she has to justify.

    Now, before you reply- STOP. I don’t agree with abortion. I don’t agree with this situation. I don’t agree with premarital sex when you’re so young. I don’t agree this needs to be a religious topic. Also, I think when you correct grammar it’s just a sign of weakness, being a jerk, or simply having nothing to say. I think I make my views clear on how I personally feel without knowing I missed a comma.

    Also, the whole point of this little comment of mine is simply to put that the article wasn’t as efficient as it could have been because it was using an emotional appear, instead of a more factual one. In the real world, facts will get your further than just emotions in topics such as this. Yes, a baby is a baby. Yes, I think abortion is wrong; but I also know there are some situations that can be hard. No, I don’t agree with that happened, or the action she took. No, I’m not Pro-Choice; I simply have my morals- as do you. You can’t say I’m Pro-Choice for defending someone everyone seems to be abusing. Nor is it fair to say I’m pro-choice for knowing that, excuse my language, sh*t happens. Nothing is black and white. I think if you can, keep the baby- or give it to adoption. I know the mental trauma abortion has had on many woman, and I know about the bible. Please be respectful in any replies, without being a jerk or simply angry. You all seem to believe in standing up for your causes and beliefs, and while you may disagree, please note I’m simply doing the same. :) Thanks guys.

  • autumn

    i am 16 i just had a baby 2 months ago. i was 15 when i got pregnant. i couldn’t be happier now that i have my little ryker. i guess some teenagers are not ready and some are ready to mature. i did drop out to get my g.e.d. and now next fall I’m going to college. God’s surprises are meant to be loved and cared for. just handle it anyway you can. i did.

    • Laurie Bertram Roberts

      Congrats, that was your choice I got pregnant at 16 too and I got married-gave birth to my twin daughters. Breastfed worked two jobs got my GED, finally went to community college graduated with honors I belong to three honor societies. I went to a 4 year school on a full scholarship. So I wish you well your life isn’t over no matter what others may say it is just changed. (I didn’t tell my daughter hers was over if she stayed pregnant either) The broader point though is SO WHAT?

      We all make our own choices. Those were mine you made yours my daughter made hers. See how that works I think it’s called free will.

      I do truly appreciate the value judgement in your statement that you are more mature because you gave birth. Motherhood doesn’t equal maturity.

      • Mary Lee

        I don’t think free will means every choice you make is okay. It means you have the ability to choose both good and bad choices. Not all choices are equal, nor are they good.

        • Guest

          That’s a great point. There are also choices that may not be the best to outsiders, but to the people actually physically involved, it was their choice and probably the best choice. Maybe a bad choice is to continue to try to deny others their rights to live under their belief system and stop trying to force everyone under a single belief system.

          • Mary Lee

            What “belief system” do you mean? The one that says “killing humans is wrong”…that one? This isn’t about religion. I’m not pro-life for religious reasons. At all. I’m pro-life because if a choice leads to the death of another human being, whether they are 8 weeks in utero, or 97 years old, or boy or girl or black or white……then it’s an empircally “bad” choice. Since the purpose of abortion is to stop the child’s beating heart, and to puree him or her, or to dismember him/her and reassemble him/her in a tray like a macabre jigsaw puzzle, we should all be unequivocally against it, every single one of us.

          • Tonya

            Yeah see my 2 month old has colic and is really keeping me up at night. It’s such a pain and I’m starting to get dark circles under my eyes. It is in my belief system to just end this misery and do away with the little nuisance. After all, he can’t make it without me so it’s my right to do what’s best for me. This motherhood thing is harder than I expected.

          • Jane Doe

            Who cares? Your little comparison is sick and twisted.

        • Jane Doe

          Need your nose up my vagina!

    • someone45

      Its good everything worked out for you, but not everyone considers a baby a blessing or gift from god. Some people don’t want a child and they aren’t going to rearrange their life to love and care for it.

      • Tonya

        In my Webster’s dictionary, there is this word called ADOPTION. Look it up sometime.

        • someone45

          Adoption doesn’t take away the nine months of carrying a child that you don’t want. A woman would still have to rearrange her life to carry the child to term.

        • Jane Doe

          So how many times has your self proclaimed expert rear end adopted a baby with Trisomy 16 or Trisomy 18? No stuck up know it all broads are the worse critiques of women with children with disabilities

  • Pingback: Clinic escort mom blogs about helping daughter get an abortion

  • Sheryl Conerly

    Yep, you are an idiot and have absolutely no idea what it means to be a feminist. “New Wave Feminists”-what a joke.

  • Josie08

    Has anyone noticed that in the mainstream media, you hear about girls/women upset about both having placed their child for adoption AND upset about raising the child,* but you almost NEVER hear about them regretting abortion?

    *I support either choice, if it truly is the choice of the mother and not that of her friends and/or relatives.

    • Jennie

      It is called social conditioning. That is why you don’t hear about it because abortion has made many people very wealthy – blood money.

  • Jennie

    Wow, as a mother and victim of miscarriages, this article makes me feel disgusted and sick to my stomach. I became a mother at 15. I stopped using drugs, I stopped smoking and I stopped ingesting caffeine. Around 4 months of pregnancy I went to a ” family planning” clinic where they tried to convince me that my child would “ruin” my life and that the only remedy was an abortion in New York. I told them where they could shove their procedure along with the commission they would have made. My daughter will be going to college next year. The idea that anyone would wish death upon their child makes me sick and is everything that is wrong with humanity. Also, I became pregnant because I had sex. My “choice” to do so resulted in the life of my daughter, who not
    once during my pregnancy had I thought of as a clump of nothing. I knew she was alive and knew her life was the result of things that she wasn’t responsible for.

    • Tonya

      And I bet you couldn’t imagine life without her. It’s sad this grandmother will never know the joy of getting hugs and kisses from the grandbaby she helped kill.

    • 441019

      Jennie: I greatly admire you and your clear thinking, and realizing that it is (usually) the woman’s choice to have sex. When someone has sex, that person should be willing to accept any consequences.

  • Dianne Myers

    How tragic, how utterly sad that one life was snuffed out for the sake of “convenience” it was not a good time for a 15 year old CHILD to get pregnant. News Flash to that not so wonderful Momma who arranged for her grandchild to be killed… 15 YEAR OLDS SHOULD NOT BE HAVING SEX.

  • Thomas

    Can someone tell Laurie Bertram Roberts to take a chill pill…
    Ms. Hatten has my courtesy and respect. It is refreshing to learn of a person who accurately describes women’s liberation. The 70’s feminists together with their sexual revolution fiasco are a disgrace to humanity. Thank you Ms. Hatten for exposing the injustice that the old-school feminists represent.

  • Mary Stafford

    Wow, and I thought MY grandma was scary…

    • Tonya

      At least she didn’t want you dead.

  • Brittani Gords

    I can’t even believe this crap.. more so coming from a “woman of color”. Classless and disgusting. I could never condone this type of crap in my child let alone blog about it! Crazy!

  • MamaK1959

    I feel sick…so terribly sad, pathetic, disgusting.

  • Evelyn Huber

    sad story, but not everyone getting an abortion is bad and everybody is blaming the women/girls. Nobody ever asks why did the man leave the woman/girl desperate and alone!!!!!!

    • disqus_CR25ev2Z1s

      That doesn’t exactly apply to the women who get abortions to hide their affairs. Or because they don’t know who the father is. Or who never told the father, because they don’t think his opinion matters. Or who know the father wants to raise the baby, but don’t care.

      It’s relatively easy to blame the father for a woman’s decision to kill her child, but just because she does so doesn’t mean the father didn’t try to stop her – or was given the option to.

  • alidefender

    This is a scam site. There is nothing of feminists about it except the name. Shaming women is so wingnutfundy. Y’all are just as bad as the crazies who stand outside clinics singing “happy birthday dead baby”. Judge not that ye be not judged. see ya!

    • GracieW

      Get a clue. The original feminists were AGAINST ABORTION. And quoting scripture out of context? Like omiword! Never heard that before. Hey, since you obviously know some of the Bible crack it open to the parts that say if you hurt a child you should be drowned in the sea. Thats in there too.

  • Pingback: Weekly Scoop | thetoddlynn

  • charli

    I am pro lfe its your body if you don’t want kids get a hystorectmoy or birth control don’t murder a innocent child news flash the baby or fetus as some call them is a human and abortition is murder.

    • someone45

      You say get a hysterectomy as if doctors just willing do them for people who are under a certain age. You also must live in a fantasy land where all birth control works 100% of the time.
      You consider the baby/fetus human and once it can survive without the assistance of the pregnant woman’s uterus I will agree with you. As long it is using the woman’s body it is her decision.

      • PrincessJasmine4

        These are sad times indeed when a doctor refuses to do a hysterectomy but will gladly stop the beating heart and severe the limbs of our human offspring
        Perhaps you people should be fighting for sterilization on demand instead of death on demand

        Do you really believe that at any stage of your life you were non-human?
        That’s not even scientific
        I’m sure you can pick up a book on embryology at your college
        Perhaps it would be best if you peruse one

  • 441019

    The comment by Kayla, the girl who had the abortion, seems to reflect something that she has been taught, as a justificaton for abortion–that the spirit of the baby will go on to “a woman who is ready for her.” This is sad, and I am sorry for Kayla. The fact that she has a mother who is a feminist and she works as an escort (along with her mother and sister) at an abortion clinic makes me wonder how much free, individual choice was involved in her decision to have an abortion. According to the post, her mother took her directly to the counselling room at the abortion clinic; she didn’t sit down with her daughter and discuss her pregnancy, her options, and what her daughter really wanted, and how her daughter felt.

  • disqus_CR25ev2Z1s

    Wow, a teenage girl who is encouraged to experiment with sex early and is surrounded by feminists and abortion gets pregnant early and decides not to keep the baby. Totally shocking.

    I’m fairly certain this little girl never had much of a choice.

    Funny thing, though: there is a third option that would have let this little “spirit” go to a woman that was ready for her and would have gotten to live long enough for it to become a reality. It’s called adoption.

    I’m hoping this girl won’t repeat the mistake, but I’m not encouraged.

  • Erika

    Oh how this makes me laugh… with joy, because I am happy for the mother and her daughter, but also not so joyful, because I am both amused by, and very saddened by, how people come to be so hateful, so rigid, and so very full of themselves that they go on and makes new rules that doesn’t even fit their own religion (a religion that they also treat like it is everyones religion). It also saddens me to no end when women keep these rules up, since they are made to control and oppress women. But well, the world is moving forward and fewer and fewer are left behind.

  • Nancy Richard Colburn

    Do any of you know why abortion was legalized? You can kick and scream murder all you want, but abortion has always existed and will continue to exist. Yelling and pitching fits like toddlers will not stop it. The very thing that will work, you all don’t approve of either, so . . . not sure what y’all hope to accomplish by shaming a 15 year old girl, but okay . . . keep screaming MURDER.

  • Jane Doe

    remember the 13 year old in Indiana who claimed to be raped but refused to have an abortion? How many of you pro life broads called her a slut and did not care that she buried herself in the home and probably advocated for the rapist who is 17 and has done that to other girls to get custody of the baby!

  • Jane Doe
  • Frankie Addiego

    I’ve been thinking: we hear a lot from the mother in this, and someone came here claiming to be the mother. If that’s really her, the fact that she showed up is something I can respect as far as it goes.

    But the thing is, she was a minor, and we DON’T hear her discussing her views, just this stuff about a “spirit” named Mariah (sorry, lady, the family who actually gives birth to her gets to name her) but nothing from the daughter.

    What I wonder is, what if she’d said, “Mom, I want to keep it.” In other words, did she really make a choice, or is it possible that she was, at the very least, pressured into it?

    We’ll never know, and I’m not going to speculate, but bear in mind that as much as the pro-abortion crowd wants to claim this is about “choice,” and don’t want “men to make the decision,” but what about other women?

    It’s peer pressure. The abortion “advisors” or whatever at Pee Pee seem to be women much of the time. Is it different if women chime in?

    Truth is that because “choice” is simply a propaganda term to turn this into a women’s rights issue, we are standing on the bridge of a system of forced abortions. It’s not too far off. And if the “oh, I’m all about a woman’s right to make her own decision,” doesn’t drop this, “ABORTION… GOOOOOOOOOOD!!!! RESTRICTIONS… BAAAAD!!!!” attitude, they’ll be as guilty as anyone else.

  • S Miller

    Okay y’all. I’m here. Obviously open discussion between people who differ in opinions and beliefs are not allowed on this site. This is Sheryl…..I know, apparently I got under some people’s skin. First off, I have never had an abortion. I have used for birth control for a good part of my life and never had a mishap. I planned on having my child and he is smart and beautiful and a better person than any of you could ever dream of being. I am pro-choice and fight for it because I am not a Nazi, as some of you have claimed. I think some of you may want to check the mirror because you are acting like neo-Nazi right wing fanatics. Whoever it was that called me stupid, you are so unimportant in my life, I am not even close to your brand of stupidity. In fact, my IQ is probably several points higher than many people on here. And what is with all the MURDER being yelled around here. Good gracious, go take your medicine. It is nothing to be ashamed of. But, whichever neo-Nazi criticized my grammar (not spelled “grammer”), back off that sister…..you apparently need to have your eyes checked. YOU can not even spell the word correctly (wt?)
    Anyway, this is my last post to you pathetic people with your puny little lives. All I can do is hope for you to receive some enlightenment along the way of what is left of your puny lives. I am sure this will be removed too, as this site is run by Nazis.
    TA-TA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Truther

    I’d love to see all pro choicers go back in time and convince their own mothers to have an abortion! Sound good? NO! We would ALL CHOOSE LIFE FOR OURSELVES! Selfish beotches!

  • Gordon Chadwell

    Its like that doctor Susan Robinson. She not only aborts late term babies, but she gives the parents or who ever, a picture of the child she just killed and the child’s foot print. I guess thats so when they get to heaven, they can look the child up.

  • Mary

    ya know? If this so called wonderful mother that led her child, to kill her grandchild, would of been aborted by her mother? Her spirit may have fluttered into a person with some real courage and common sense?

  • carol

    Wow. No judgement here Kristen. Nice touch including the Nazi reference.

  • APro-lifeteen

    This might make me a terrible person, but whenever I read about someone of “color” saying something as ignorant as everything that this woman and her daughter said I get pissed off that I’m black.

  • 6baalsach9

    so, this is the south “rising again”? nice…

    still waiting on the zombie apokolypse

  • Thomas T. Panto

    I am a HUMAN. I am one million years of accumulated WISDOM SHARED and placed into the developing brain tissue of a mammal carcass. Some religions believe I am just MEAT and that every fetus must be born no matter what that fetus does to a HUMAN mother, her HUMAN Family and their HUMAN future. Never sacrifice Humanity to save an unsupported, unwanted, insignificant scrap of mammal meat. We may all be trapped in this poverty stricken ”civilization”, but that does not mean we must sacrifice our family on its altar. Live to elevate and evolve your species not your holy military empires.