Facebook profile picture for The Christian Left.

Why The Christian Left is wrong

The Christian Left is a group devoted to informing their site’s and Facebook page’s visitors that there is such a thing as the Christian Left. They quote a verse from the Parable of the Good Samaritan: “Jesus told him, ‘Go and do likewise,'” (Luke 10:37). Their mission is “[t]o follow Jesus by taking actions on behalf of the oppressed, the sick, the hungry, the poor, the incarcerated, the lonely, the disabled, the mentally ill, the mistreated, the war-torn, and the weak.”

Hmm, what is missing here? Oh, right: the unborn.

The Christian LeftWhat’s wrong with The Christian Left, though, is not just that they neglect to include the unborn in those on whose behalf we should act, as Jesus would do. After all, one could imagine they could include the unborn under the “oppressed” label.

But no, the worst part is that they advocate for abortion. And they do so while demonizing the Christian right.

On their homepage, under “What We’re All About,” The Christian Left mentions, with original emphasis, that:

We’re not about Dogma here. We’re just Christians who think the political and Christian right-wing have their priorities wrong.

Bottom Line: We welcome ALL to their place at God’s table, just as they are. All means ALL. No exceptions. We reject all attempts to define our Faith by the two wedge issues of Gay Marriage and Abortion.

So The Christian Left doesn’t want to be defined by “Gay Marriage” and “Abortion,” while suggesting that that’s what the Christian right is defined by – whose adherents also, according to The Christian Left, “have their priorities wrong.” Well, for a group that doesn’t want to be defined by these “wedge issues,” they certainly spend plenty of time talking about them – on their website, their blog and their Facebook page.

Now, the Facebook page and website and blog posts do discuss Christianity and Jesus Christ, but upon glancing through, there are a significant amount of anti-GOP and Christian right posts and links. It seems that The Christian Left are Christians, yes, but more leftist – and, I dare say, hell-bent on pointing out the faults of the Christian right and the GOP.

The Christian Left criticizes those Christians who deal with the issue of abortion with such posts as this political cartoon and this picture in their timeline photos. They also shared this link from the Huffington Post about sex education programs, as well as this meme about being pro-life and against universal health care.

There are also these posts on the group’s Facebook page:

As a child, when I went to church with my grandmother, we never heard sermons about abortion or homosexuality. It was all about Jesus. That changed sometime near the election of Ronald Reagan when politicians figured out some people could be ‘useful idiots’ by dividing us on these issues while we were being shafted behind the scenes. I don’t remember one sermon about either subject, ever. – Laurie Ann Giampietro, member of The Christian Left [TCL: Many of these same Christians have now turned these two wedge issues into their own personal ego idols. Jesus has been blurred out of the picture entirely.]

crossThese “useful idiots” acted on their faith in being against abortion and/or homosexuality, or at the very least they sought to appeal to those who did act on their faith. Jesus has not “been blurred out of the picture entirely” in discussing these issues.

It actually very much concerns me that a church would fail to discuss abortion. When there is no mention, it seems that the church would prefer to sweep the issue under the rug and pretend that abortions aren’t happening. On the other hand, when the church preaches against abortion, it’s to remind Christians that abortion is not something Jesus would ever support, as well as that there is healing and forgiveness available for those who have suffered from abortion. But The Christian Left doesn’t want you to know that.

And now for perhaps the most startling post of all from the group, which shows that its members very much fail to understand their professed religion and leader, Jesus Christ:

To those who come by the page to lecture us about abortion and gay marriage, please take it somewhere else. Being gay isn’t a sin. Abortion isn’t a sin. You and your false teachers need to get a grip. Learn the truth. We’re moving on. You’ve dragged Christianity down long enough with your bigoted views and need to control women. Start with Numbers 5. In it you will find the description of a Bible sanctioned abortion.

Here we see that The Christian Left is at it again, criticizing those they disagree with by calling pro-lifers bigots. And perhaps the reason Christians who are faithful on the issue of abortion, and who understand that it is something God and His Son could never support, seek to “lecture” is because The Christian Left is so very wrong. Yet this group will have none of it, and its members seem so sure of their stance, even when it couldn’t be farther from the truth. As this page points out (warning: graphic pictures) and this one, abortion is indeed a sin. And while pro-choice Bible studies like to point out that abortion is sanctioned, other pages will point out that this is simply untrue.

What I see at the heart of the issue is this, though: it is bad enough to claim to be a Christian and be in support of abortion. It gets worse when you claim to be a Christian, are in support of abortion, and say that any other Christian who is pro-life has his or her priorities wrong and is a bigot. Being Christian really ought to mean being pro-life. Do I believe that there can be Christians who are left-leaning? I do. The Christian Left can stop trying to convince us that it’s possible.

Just don’t tell me that “[a]bortion is not a sin” when I know that it is. And it is outright deceitful for such a group to sell to other Christians, with such certainty and authority, that they can rightfully be Christian and support abortion.

It’s funny how such a group refers to “political and Christian right-wing” as the ones who “have their priorities wrong[,] as if they don’t want to be associated with such terms. Yet this is a group that could easily be categorized as political. And they say they reject being defined by these issues?

Well, they seem to be defined by defining other groups by these issues, all while also discussing these issues, just from another standpoint which isn’t exactly compatible with Christianity. Thus, they’re defined not only by criticizing people for believing that abortion is a sin, which it is, but also by their fervent and misguided support.

If The Christian Left has anything to say about this blog post, they’ll likely call me out for being a Republican and a bigot and wrong and judgmental and whatever else they can think of. Well, I say let them.

  • First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. I do believe we have moved into the fight stage of the proceedings, which means we’re in the homestretch. Abortion’s days were always numbered and oppressors always try to use the Bible to justify themselves. It happened with slavery so it’s no surprise it is happening with abortion. The important thing to remember is that this is a last desperate gasp of a dying movement. Because, as you point out, the Bible does not justify abortion. And, thankfully, most people are smart enough to see that.

    • Basset_Hound

      I hope you’re right. But if we don’t stop this now, euthanasia will make abortion seem like child’s play.

  • Basset_Hound

    The Christian Left seems to see Jesus as some sort of celestial Santa Claus who showers His people with goodies and smiles from above as His children destroy each other. I wonder what they do with this passage from Luke….”Then he said to them, “Whoever welcomes this little child in my name welcomes me; and whoever welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me. For it is the one who is least among you all who is the greatest.” In my mind the “little child” could be an unexpected pregnancy.

  • musiciangirl591

    another page is Catholics for Choice… they have blocked me for trying to tell the truth while they were spouting lies

    • Julia

      Well, even their name is a lie. “Catholics for Choice” is such an oxymoron. Being a Catholic means believing ALL Catholic teachings. Catholic teaching says that abortion is wrong and the that preborn people should be protected. Therefore, you can’t be Catholic and “pro-choice [to kill or you preborn child or not]”.

      • musiciangirl591

        another page made a fun game out of the Catholics for Choice page, you post something truthful and see how long it would take for you to get banned, some people would be a couple of minutes, one person was a couple of seconds

        • Basset_Hound

          Wow…Fastest Time Being Banned from Catholics for Choice sounds like a good competition. I don’t know if this is a viable offshoot, but how about Poster Banned from C4C The Most Times Under Different Screen Names.

        • Julia

          Sounds like a fun game!

      • Judge not, lest ye be judged. Who are you to say whether or not someone else is a Catholic?

        • musiciangirl591

          well, if they don’t follow the teachings of the Catholic Church, they are just Catholic in name and not in practice

        • Julia

          Might as well say “judge not, lest ye be judged : who are you to say that this person is not a professional baseball player” when they are very clearly not from the facts. By definition, a Catholic is someone who follows ALL the teachings of the Catholic Church (which are very clearly laid out and available for anyone to find). If you deny even one of them, you are in heresy and not a Catholic. It’s that simple.

          (Note: that doesn’t of course mean, that if you ever do something against Catholic teaching then you are not a Catholic – it must be a wilful intellectual denial. for isntance – A catholic can tell a lie and still be a Catholic, but if one denies that lying is wrong (and knows that the Catholic Church teaches that lying is wrong), then that person is not a Catholic.
          Also, the “judging” that verse is talking about is more like “this person is going to hell for sure, etc.”, because we can’t know that. And it certainly doesn’t mean judging an action, or stating certain facts.

        • First Citizen

          If you continue reading the passage you will find that Jesus is telling them to not judge hypocritically. (Matt. 7:1-6) You find later in the book that the Church is to employ church discipline (Matt. 18:14-18). This concept of church discipline is also found in 1 Cor. 5. Your quote of Matt. 7:1 is taken out of context.

  • ABro1973

    Imagine going to sleep tonight, and waking up to be ripped from everything you know, then being crushed, bruised, and smothered, for hours, perhaps days, until you remember nothing about your life, then waking toothless, blind, unable to walk or speak, in a country where you can’t speak the language, to be cared for by complete strangers picked at complete random.

    That’s regular birth. It happens to all of us. It happened to you. It is horribly, utterly devastating and traumatic.

    So let’s say this is going to happen to YOU, tomorrow. You will go to sleep tonight, and all of this will happen, then next thing you know. Say goodbye to everything you love; you are about to go through an incredibly painful and traumatic experience, only to wake up helpless, to be cared for by random people you don’t know and can’t talk to.

    Then someone comes up to you tonight before bed and says “you know that part where you are crushed, bruised, smothered for hours, only to wake up in a world where you have no control over anything, assigned to random people who will be entirely responsible for raising you? Let’s say those people don’t feel ready to raise you for 18 years. Can we just give you some anesthesia, and cut your spinal cord and be done with it?”

    My first thought will be “well, I’m basically dying anyway, because everything I know and care about is going to be wiped out. I’m going to start over in a new environment over which I have no control. Rather than risk being in the care of people who don’t want me, yeah, I’d rather give them the option to cut my spinal cord, and opt out.”

    Am I completely irrational to feel this way? Why?

    • Yes, you are being somewhat irrational. But human thinking is often that way. We have to fill our minds with godly, good, lovely things. If you have filled your mind with this negativity the only result will be the desire to die. But the Bible says to Choose Life. We must trust God to see us through. That’s why a child’s trust is so precious. And we as parents have a duty and obligation to nurture and care for that child till they can stand on their own two feet.

    • Julia

      Who gives YOU that right to make that choice for someone else anyway?
      Also, the preborn child is not given anesthesia.
      Also, the preborn child knows his/her mother – they recognize and know the voices of their mother and those who have been around them.
      If a child is unwanted by his/her parents, the probleme is with the parents, not the child.
      What for a a couple with a four year old child, the parents lose their jobs, and decide they don’t want to take care of a child anymore. Would it be OK for them to kill that 4-year-old child because, otherwise he/she is going to have to be cared for by some complete strangers or else, if not, by parents who don’t want him/her?

      • ABro1973

        > “Who gives YOU that right to make that choice for someone else anyway? ”
        I have kids.

        What gave me the right to create a human being, with all of the associated suffering, pain, fear, uncertainty, and certain death, that a human life entails? Nothing gave me that right. It just happened. We aren’t talking about ideals, here, we’re talking about reality.

        > “If a child is unwanted by his/her parents, the probleme is with the parents, not the child.”

        As a child who was somewhat unwanted, I can say with certainty that it IS a problem for the child. Your parents are miserable, because you exist. You feel terrible as a result. No amount of reassurance by anti-abortion folks who proudly proclaim themselves good and right will change the fact that you are living a miserable life and wonder why you were born, forced into this life.

        You are oversimplifying and ignoring the massive suffering felt by unwanted children, just so you can feel like life is good and clean and simple. It’s not. But hey, at least you feel right and righteous and like life is simple.

        • ABRO1973 – The Bible has an interesting way of dealing with our concept of rights. It says in John 1, that even Jesus came into a world where He was not wanted – don’t forget the Herod of the day was determined to kill all the children under the age of 2 back then too. If Mary had said, oh, maybe I should not bear this child, after all, it’s pretty inconvenient after all to have a child and not be married, and my goodness, Herod is killing all the babies so I might as well give up now and kill Jesus too, cause after all, He might have some suffering in His life.” Where would we all be then? Happy to say, even though Jesus was rejected by his own people, He did not stop there and exact revenge on them or the rest of us. No, He gave His life inspite of our selfishness and ignorance. In Verse 12 and 13, we with gladness read that “…. as many as received HIM, to THEM HE gave POWER to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His Name, which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” God addresses this “will of the parent” in an interesting way – and I read here that once we are born of the flesh, we have the opportunity to become born of the Spirit. When we believe on HIS Name, the name of Jesus, we earn the RIGHT to be the sons of God. When a man and woman come together, they create a child because that is how God designed us. It’s not really about rights – it’s about DESIGN. When a parents bring a child into the world, they need to familiarize themselves with the age old responsibilities that God intended for parents to instill in their children – that this child too can have the wonderful opportunity to come into fellowship with God in his or her life, to experience the joy of salvation at an early age, to walk in obedience and love God all the days of their lives and then go to be with the Lord forever when they die. This gives one pause for reflection. Since God created man in His image because He found that from among all the animals He could not find one to talk to in a meaningful way, we must all in our lives come to some decision on whether our lives are going to be lived in service and love to our Creator God, or continue in our natural, selfish, ungodly ways.
          We have the wonderful privilege through Christ’s death on the cross and resurrection from the dead to overcome Death, of entering into a relationship with the Creator God. This is the spiritual thinking we need to be dwelling on – which comes once we recognize who we are, why we were created and what God has planned for us. Parents need to take seriously their task to raise up children who will know their God too. They must set aside their selfish ambitions and recognize that they too have a need for a Saviour. I would stop thinking and mulling over silly arguments for choosing God over the pleasures of this world, and get busy with the business of raising a Godly family and enjoying a wonderful relationship with your wife.

        • Your parents may have not wanted you, and I’m sure that was extremely painful for you as a child. However, you don’t have to let that define you. You have the power to recognize your own self-worth and realize that it exists regardless of what your parents think. Have you had any therapy for your childhood problems?

        • Basset_Hound

          EXCUSE ME?????? My mom was a miserable, bitter woman, and I spent my childhood and adolescence feeling pretty terrible about myself. I wondered why I was born, and why I was forced into this life. Hell, one night I remember sitting in my campus apartment drinking myself into oblivion because I seriously couldn’t think of any reason not to. But did that mean I had to stay like that …ABSOLUTELY NOT. I got help….I made changes…I got involved in an active church group and surrounded myself with positive, affirming people most of whom were (gasp….horrors) icky “anti-abortion” folks and I’m NOT living a miserable life now. I’ve been married to the same man for almost a quarter century and have a family. So if you tell ME that I’m living a “miserable life”, or that I’ve got no right to be here because my mom didn’t want me, and I’ll tell you you’re flat out WRONG. I turned my life around because I had a choice.

          • ABro1973

            Well, you may not be miserable, but I assure you that if that’s the way you talk to your husband or family, they’re miserable :-) Way to be confrontational and absolutist with no interest in other people’s perspective. That’s what spreads misery in this world, not people asking questions about what’s right and wrong, like I’m doing. It’s the people who shut down the questioning and say “THIS is right, shut up, you’re full of crap for questioning it” like you’re doing that end up causing much of the misery.

          • Basset_Hound

            Playing “Minority Report” with someone else’s life (particularly someone who has not been born) is flat out WRONG…..PERIOD….There is no “considering another person’s perspective” when it comes to a strong person deciding whether a weak person lives or dies based on convenience. You want to see misery…just wait until society operates on a utilitarian approach where someone’s right to live is based on their economic viability or whether or not another wants to assume responsibility for his care. There will be no such thing as compassion.

        • Julia

          So basically your point is their my kids so I can kill them if I don’t want them? If you are going to hold that position, don’t pretend you are being merficul by saving them from being unwanted. That’s like saying – “Hey! I’m saving you from cancer” as you shoot people in kimo treatment.

          • ABro1973

            First of all, I did want my kids. What I struggled with was whether I was being selfish to want to have a kid, and whether my kid would think it was the wrong decision once they were old enough. And yes, I am thinking about mercy, and ending suffering. I also think that the desire to take an absolutist perspective in the name of ending suffering CAN lead to more suffering, and is very scary. One of my greatest fears is being kept alive, just to live, when I am in miserable desperate pain and want to die. I’ve seen it happen to people, and think it’s among the cruelest things humans can do to each other. And so incredibly selfish. But commonly done by people who talk like you, so I fear you.

            For the records, I took care of my grandmother for a year while she suffered through chemo. She was darn well ready to go at the end, and was mostly being encouraged by others “keep fighting! Maybe you can beat it!” It was pretty sad.

          • Julia

            I’m truly sorry that your are in so much pain. (I’m sorry if my comments sound harsh – I don’t mean it that way, and when I said “as you shoot someone”, I meant it generally – I probably should have said “as one shoots someone”) But wanting to die is somthing that is abnormal, and the majority of people would rather live.
            My point is that , you are making assumptions that your child would want death based on your feelings about life, which isn’t just. I doubt that there is a single person under 6 or so that has ever wanted to die, but since a young child can’t really tell you that they want to die, it is very unjust to presume that and kill them.
            Keep in mind that a preborn child is just as much alive as a two year old, so in order to be logical, if one thinks it is OK to kill a preborn child because one thinks that they are/will be miserable, one should logically think it is OK to kill a two-year old because one thinks that they are/will be miserable.

        • Sarah

          Are you saying you wish you’d been, or you should have been, aborted? (I don’t mean that to be harsh. I’m just really confused by your reasoning. ) I did appreciate your comments–trying to look at the baby’s perspective.

          • ABro1973

            That’s not harsh at all. It’s an obvious inference. I don’t know that I’ve ever specifically wished I had been aborted, as opposed to simply not conceived, though. What I really wished was that my parents hadn’t gone and had a kid. For various reasons, both because they didn’t really want one, weren’t ready, and because the world and life are so difficult.

            And I know, the answer of most people here to that is “well, life isn’t so difficult/is more bearable if you just would be more religious.” And that’s where the pro-life folks and I diverge generally, since I’m not religious. But really, creating new lives just so you can tell them “join our religion so you won’t be miserable” ? Is the pro-life position necessarily tied to believing that God doesn’t want abortions, or can you justify it on a non-religious level?

          • LCM

            On a non-religious level, the pro-life position believes that all humans have the right to live simply because they are human – that’s why it’s called a “human right”. Since it has been scientifically proven that a new, unique human is created at conception, it should therefore be assumed that this new, unique human being is granted human rights, like the right to life. In the US, the Declaration has these inalienable rights include the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The 14th Amendment states that no person shall be deprived of life, liberty, and property without due process of law. The reason Roe v. Wade went through was because the Court said that they did not have the scientific knowledge to yet determine when life begins, but if it WAS determined, then the ruling could be overturned.
            The basic assumption is summed up in three parts:
            1. Killing a person innocent of a crime is wrong.
            2. Abortion kills innocent persons.
            3. Therefor, abortion is wrong.
            (Personally, I don’t believe you should kill anyone who is guilty of a crime, either, unless you’re killing them in self-defense and it’s the only way for you to not be killed. However, some pro-lifers are for the death penalty for various reasons).

            Articles that talk about an unborn person being, in fact, a person:

          • Sarah Utley

            (This is the same sarah that asked the first question) I love your
            question. I really don’t understand people who try to argue against
            anything with the Bible to those who don’t believe in the Bible. It
            doesn’t make any sense. And the Bible gets manipulated all the time. If
            you don’t study it or believe in it, how are you supposed to wade
            through all of the crap and magically find the stuff that actually seeks
            to fulfill the Bible’s intent?

            I wholeheartedly
            believe we should all be against abortion in the same way we are against
            the murder of anyone. Murder is always wrong. At conception an embryo
            has it’s own unique DNA–at that moment the color of your hair, how tall
            you will be, whether or not you will have rheumatoid arthritis is all
            decided. We know it’s human because humans can only produce humans. And
            unless something happens (abortion or medical problems) an embryo always
            becomes a baby. To use the word embryo is the same as using the word
            toddler or teenager–just different stages of human development. The
            only problem I have with using “fetus” is I believe it’s a way to
            deceive women. I am also strongly against abortion because of what it
            does to women. The support groups for women who have abortion are many
            and growing, and proof that women are suffering. It’s especially
            disheartening because, a lot of women say they just wish they had had
            more information. But Planned parenthood fights any laws that forces
            women to be more informed. Why? Abortion is big money–there’s no way of
            getting around that. So no matter what you believe, you have to
            question the motivation. And why doesn’t planned parenthood speak out
            against doctors like Dr. Gosnell whose clinic had horrific conditions
            for women? And why does planned parenthood now advocate for post-birth
            abortions (infanticide)? How does killing the baby protect it’s mother?
            People who could have said it better: Roger Resler, Compelling Interest,
            Anything by Randy Alcorn, Abby Johnson (former planned parenthood
            director), Unplanned.

            And no one, especially a
            christian, should be dismissing your feelings. My dad suffers from
            depression and some would tell him he doesn’t have enough
            faith–ridiculous. I would be doing you a disservice though, if I didn’t
            tell you that from my own life experience, life is only livable with
            Christ. I know abortion is murder, and what’s happening weighs on my
            soul, but I don’t know what to do. Only Christ is my hope. And the
            beautiful thing is that whether or not you ever come to know him, he
            loves you. He’s there through the pain and horror, silent and strong.

            Thanks you so much for this conversation.

          • Abro1973 – The question of whether we can justify the pro-life position on a non-religious level is an interesting one. Religiosity is of course something that Jesus dealt with when He often spoke to the “religious leaders” of His day. If we assume that most of the people who followed Jesus were NOT considered “religious leaders” of their day, it may help you understand better the message that Christ brings to all men. When Jesus said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, that is not “religion”. He said that “No man comes to the Father but by Me.” The Gospel is Jesus. It’s is especially good news to the non-religious. When we are searching for answers and find something in a system of religion, it is only part of the answer. Before meeting Christ, we are simply living in the natural, without God, and without hope in the world. When we find Jesus, we don’t find “religion”. While people may refer to a believer as “religious”, it really is a misnomer. I’ve come to understand religion as man’s efforts to reach God. Whatever form that takes, it ultimately ends in a shallow system of beliefs, put together by a group of people who are trying to understand what system of works will earn their salvation. Where a church creates a good system of doctrine based on the Bible, I am in favor. The reason we need to read the Bible is so that we truly can begin to understand how the puzzle of this life has been put together, and where exactly we are fitting in that puzzle. From the day God banished Adam and Eve from the Garden till the day Jesus came and died on the cross, the world’s only hope was a system of works and self-sacrifices – and it truly was the Dark Ages. When Christ came, hope was restored, His blood, the perfect sacrifice, was shed for us. This is not “religion”. In our present world, there is good and there is evil. This is not “religion”. There is the natural and there is the spiritual. There are principalities and powers and rulers in high places at work. This is not religion. There is the fact that Satan is free to roam on this earth, but he is defeated. This is not religion. When we acknowledge that Christ overcame death, we live with the confidence that we will live forever with the Lord. The whole earth is groaning for the return of Christ – the world is in a tremendous mess. And there is only one solution – it has to come to an end. And reading the Bible we see that it will come to an end, and in the meantime we need to tell people (non-religious and religious alike) of the saving power of Christ’s blood. The parents need to understand how they fit in the picture of God’s plan for the family and ultimately how this earthly picture (when functioning as it intended) portrays a heavenly one. The principle of adoption is not a new one – since we have been adopted by God as His sons and daughters when we believe in His Name and the work on the Cross. It is so simple, so childlike, so unbelievably un-religious.

        • Please, please, please ABro1973. For your own good and that of your loved ones, please, please, please find a good counselor. Severe depression needs treatment of one sort or another. Trust me, I know what I’m talking about. Don’t put it off! Try calling your local Catholic Charities agency — you do NOT have to be a Catholic to benefit from their services — and see if there is a counselor you could get an appointment with, or if they could recommend anyone. Don’t worry if you can’t afford counseling — Catholic Charities in many places has a sliding scale for fees, so that their services are available to people who are not well-off. PLEASE. You owe it to yourself and those you love. There really IS life on the other side of depression — and once you get the depression treated, you will be AMAZED at how different the world looks. You will feel so much better. Please, please do this for yourself. I just can’t encourage you enough! We were made for happiness, not misery. That’s not just a crock, it’s the truth. I pray that you will take the steps you need to take so that someday soon, you will KNOW this truth to the core of your being. May God bless you!

          • oh_snap

            nothing like pop psychology and internet randos to diagnose you.

        • Julia

          “”Who gives YOU that right to make that choice for someone else anyway””
          I meant, why do you get to decide that someone else (the preborn child) should die, because you perceive that what is happening/ or will happen is miserable for them.

    • Kristiburtonbrown

      Well, I’d point out a few missteps in your thinking, since you asked =)

      First, it’s not very often that babies are “smothered” in delivery. They are still getting oxygen through the umbilical cord, which is still attached. Second, it’s very normal to babies to be toothless and unable to walk or speak. They don’t really know they need to have things any different – and they don’t, until they’re older. I mean, who really needs teeth to drink milk? =)

      Third, as someone else has already mentioned, a baby’s parents typically aren’t strangers at all. Babies learn to recognize their parents’ voices while still in the womb. I could go on…

      But here’s the point. Sure, being born is a difficult and new experience, as are many stages of life (puberty, for example, for many people). But it’s not at all similar to being murdered, especially in a cruel way. Not by a long shot.

      • ABro1973

        I’ve been to two deliveries of my own children. I think it’s fair to say that the experience of having to learn to breath, with fluid in your lungs, is similar to being smothered. Do you think babies are screaming just because they’re silly? I’m not sure what’s “normal” about being toothless and unable to walk or speak.

        Just because this is what always happens at birth happens doesn’t make it any less disturbing/traumatizing for the baby. For their entire conscious existence they were living in a warm, floating pool of fluid. A lot of people idealize the experience of babies, but I’ve seen enough having my own kids to recognize that they go through hell to get here.

        And so yes, it seems similar to being murdered to me. Babies are NOT happy about being yanked out of the womb at birth. How is so it different from murder, being violently torn from everything you know? You think it’s different because of how you experience it, as an observer knowing what’s going on outside. I’m talking about what it’s like for the baby.

        Just because you can recognize someone’s voice doesn’t make them a not a stranger. Babies cling to their parents, but it’s because their parents are all they’ve got, not because they have some magical/mystical connection to their parents.

        Also, someone mentioned anesthesia not being provided in abortions. I know it is provided sometimes, and it should always be there. I’m all about minimizing suffering. Minimization of suffering isn’t always the goal of religion, though, because suffering packs the pews, to be blunt.

        • “How is so it different from murder, being violently torn from everything you know?”

          Because after you’re murdered, you’re dead.

          • Cindy


          • JDC

            Real insightful comment there, Cindy. I can see you are a genius.

          • ABro1973

            And from the perspective of the person it’s happening to, what’s the difference between the two? Especially if you believe in life after death, and the fetus’s soul is going to another place (heaven/reincarnation/whatever) then this seems like a detour, not an end.

          • By your logic, any of us could murder anyone else — because, after all, “they’re going to a better place,” aren’t they? This is not a normal, healthy attitude. You may be suffering from severe depression. I really do hope you will make the effort to find a good counselor.

        • That seems to me an extremely bizarre and morose view of birth. Is this really the way you view the birth of your own children? In all sincerity, I would strongly urge you to talk things over with a good counselor or pastor. I can’t imagine this kind of mentality is doing your children much good.

        • ColdFusion

          I find it quite creepy how you compare birth to death.
          I’ve been told a little story about when I was born: I cried like other babies at first, then my mother started talking to me, and I immediately stopped crying and looked around serenely. (I rarely fussed about things throughout the subsequent years, either.) My earliest memory is of how much I enjoyed riding in a stroller. It doesn’t sound like I would rather have been dead at ANY point during my infancy. o_0

          • ABro1973

            Maybe you find it creepy because it involves issues you’d rather not think about ;-) If that’s the case, I’m not here to make you think about them. Move along. But I’m not going to stop thinking just because you don’t want to think.

          • Tasha

            You’re not “thinking”, your world view is astoundingly sick. Life is precious, we are not to murder the defenseless for our own convenience.

    • Here’s the thing that some pro-choice advocates hold to, myself included: for abortion to be the moral abomination many pro-lifers would have it be, the victim of that crime would have to have a sense of loss. In your allegory, the unborn has a conscious choice. Empirically, though, we know that the fetus isn’t lucid or self-aware or cognizant of anything except, maybe, the amniotic languor you’re getting at. And, thus, it isn’t being robbed of all the things pro-lifers would dream up for it. Which you might also be hinting at.

      • ABro1973

        What bothers me is the determination of many pro-choice people to so vigorously deny that the fetus ever suffers anything. Abortion might just be a really, really crappy experience for the fetus. I’d prefer that there was an abundance of caution toward this possibility. The examples of fetuses being left in the open to die is pathetic, and it seems like it’s due to a failure of both sides to be willing to approach abortion for what it really is.

        Many Pro-lifers claim the fetus a full-grown, fully aware little person who desperately wants the opportunity to go to college and have a career — don’t kill it’s dreams! Pro-choicers on the other hand claim it’s a blob of tissue with no awareness. Both perspectives are so arbitrary and leave room for unnecessary suffering, in my opinion. Pro lifers create all kinds of unnecessary suffering by making the babies be born into a miserable life; pro-choicers create a miserable death for the same fetuses.

        • LCM

          There would be much less suffering for newborn babies if people practiced more safe sex and adoption processes weren’t so convoluted. Also, most people who know a thing about human development in the early stages of life (as most decent-prolifers do), know that self-awarement grows throughout development as the child grows. As for your statement about what pro-lifers claim, it’s not about not killing a baby’s “dreams” – it’s about letting this very young human being able to have the basic human right of living and dying a natural death. Abortion takes away this human right from humans.

          • ABro1973

            But the “basic right of living and dying a natural death” is an extremely subjective one. The fetus didn’t ask for it. It doesn’t know what it has a “right” to at this point. The concept of “rights” is a very intellectual one that really doesn’t become relevant to human thinking until adulthood. And frankly, I don’t know that bestowing on your child “the right to die a natural death” is particularly generous.

            When I think of my kids growing old, and eventually possibly dying “natural” but extremely painful deaths by cancer or other diseases, or possibly really horrible accidental deaths, or maybe becoming paralyzed vegetables, I’m not sure this is such a great “right.”

            In fact, choosing life sounds, at best, like buying a bunch of lottery tickets for someone with their money rather than yours. There’s a chance, yes, that they’ll be happy. But they may just as likely blame you for wasting their time and effort only to be a loser. Either way, you’re forcing their participation without their full knowledge of what they’re getting into/what they could lose.

          • LCM

            Last time I checked, the fetus didn’t ask to be killed via abortion, either. And sure, most people need to have a higher brain capacity to TALK about rights, but you don’t need to be smart to HAVE rights. Otherwise, why should infants have the right to live? Or five-year-olds? Or 13-year-olds? Everyone knows teenagers aren’t always that smart, so maybe they shouldn’t have the definite right to live, either.
            As far as death goes, a natural death is probably the most generous death you’re going to get. Unless you think being stabbed by a mugger, getting in a car crash, or having a brain aneurysm at 40 are better than dying peacefully in your sleep at 80.
            I’m sorry, but you seem to have a really bleak outlook on life. Why did you even bother having children if the paths their lives MIGHT take gives you such bad vibes? Yes, they might get cancer, but they might also live to be 110 and be millionaires. From your apparent viewpoint, why should anyone then bother doing anything if the results MIGHT be bad? Most of your statements have been soaked in pessimism. And how are you forcing their participation? You’re LETTING them live. You speak as if all life is miserable, so why should anyone go through with it? Life is going to have struggles and hardships, get over it. With God’s help and trying your best, you can make it through anything.

            Though I’m not any sort of psychologist, it seems to me you have some deeper issues that probably can’t be fully discussed on an online forum.

          • LCM

            Sorry that I’m being kind of harsh, but I don’t feel much pity for people who wallow in their problems their whole lives. I’ve seen it happen to friends and family, and no good comes of it.

          • Basset_Hound

            My sentiments exactly. I’m all for showing support and having empathy, but it’s another thing to hold someone else an emotional hostage.

          • We don’t have rights because we ask for them or think about them. That is not how rights work. Most people don’t think about their right to own property until someone violates that right and steals from them.

            And when the alternative to dying a natural death of old age is dying an unnatural, probably violent one at a young age, you can not possibly think that it’s worse to live a long life.

            Look, most of your questions come down to wondering why reality is the way it is. However, it doesn’t really matter. This is the only reality you have. You can either make peace with it or live miserably for the rest of your life, but you can’t remake the universe by wishing. Abortion is just more suffering and violence in a reality already too full of both. Supporting it doesn’t save suffering, it perpetuates it. If you really want to save people from being miserable, not violently killing them on the off-chance they might not have a 100% euphoric life doesn’t do the whole job. But it’s not a bad place to start.

      • Julia

        Actually, the morality of killing someone has nothing to do with how much pain/loss that person will feel. That is why it is wrong to kill someone who is unconscience even if you are an athiest who believes that someone’s existence ends with death (so that person who was murdered will not feel any pain, nor even know that they were murdered.)

    • show7

      From personal experience my own newborns were quite content and peaceful to be in my arms after delivery. Perhaps infants are far more hopeful, trusting and pliable than us grown ups. To just imagine yourself in a baby’s first moments after birth isn’t enough to really understand what a newborn is truly feeling. They are not going back in time from a state of independent adulthood with hair and teeth into a situation of dependancy and baldness they are just starting out! I think it’s very admirable of you to be empathetic to a baby’s first experiences but it’s impossible to truly know how they feel. Didn’t your babies surprise you with their ability to love and trust you even though they had never seen you? Mine did!

      Also, the arguement that a child is unwanted and should not be subjected to a misreable life of unwantedness is rooted in hoplesness. Humans do not know the future, including the direction of their own heart and mind. I can attest to you many unplanned babies, even unwanted babies, have become completely adored and loved by their unprepared parents or adopted parents. That is the nature of parenthood. It changes you completly. Mothers and fathers often become different creatures for the better -we learn how to love. I’ve heard this from countless parents and have experienced it first hand. Didn’t fatherhood make you a better person? Sadly, there are also situations where wanted and planned babies live abused or neglected lives because of a negative change in his/her parents circumstances or hearts. I just don’t think someone’s life should be held in the balance because of their parents temporary and fleeting situation or feelings. All people should be given a chance to at least live! If we really care about a child’s best interest we should be letting despondent mothers and fathers of unborn and born children know that there is always hope for the better not that misery and suffering awaits them and their children. We can also provide hope by actually helping people practically achieve better lives for themselves and their kids.

    • marie27

      “waking toothless, blind, unable to walk or speak”

      Well, the child doesnt’ know anything else, nor does he/she reason this way. That is a silly as a girl saying “imagine how miserable a guy must be with short hair, because think of how I would feel if someone cut all my hair off.”

      “to be cared for by complete strangers picked at complete random.”

      They are not strangers – not only do they have a natural bond based on blood relationship, but they also know thier parents’ and siblings’ voices, especially their Mom’s.

      And none of this gives anyone the right to kill them, especially because you can’t ask the baby whether he wants die, so we’ll just have to give him/her the benefit of the doubt. Othewise, that means that we can just go around shooting people who we think look miserable. (This reminds me of the old Cary Grant movie Arsenic and Old Lace, where the little old laides poison people who they think look lonely and sad. :) )

  • …. a people who don’t know their left from their right….. Jonah

  • First Citizen

    It is shocking that some who call themselves Christians fail to believe that the unborn should be protected.

    Research Director Freedomsdefenders.com
    Co-Founder ChristianArise.wordpress.com

    • How do we know Christians (besides them saying they are)? By their love. So even though many “say they are Christians” the Lord may say He never knew them. I will never say anymore that “some who call themselves Christians…. should be doing this or that or should believe this or that.” We will know they are Christians by their love – that is the defining character trait. Angry disputings are not love. Calling down the right, the left, the middle – that’s not love. Where love is not present, it’s pretty certain those are not Christians, just maybe wolves in sheep’s clothing. We need to exhort one another, hold one another accountable, and watch lest we ourselves fall. Each man must stand before God when their works will be judged – and there, for the grace of God, go I. The internet is a good example of discovering who the Christians are. When we call out to other “Christians” that they are “Not Christians”, is that love? In some instances it is – because we have to also exhort one another to line up to the word of God, to walk worthy of the calling to which Christ called us. We need to correct our brothers and sisters in the Lord and warn them if they have strayed. So this article shows love and concern – I like that. What happens next though – is there thoughtful reflection by the accused? Is there restitution and right thinking achieved, or do the accusations fly without thought for the hurt they may be causing someone? I urge you therefore brethren – right, left and in the middle – to be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. Love one another, encourage one another, confess your faults to one another that we may be healed. Then the world will know we are Christians.

      • First Citizen

        The Bible is pretty clear that murder is sinful, because abortion is murder it is a sin. Therefore believing that abortion is ok is a discrepancy with Christianity and Love. The Bible is also pretty clear that those who continue sining cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. (Hebrews 10:26) Therefore I will not call people “Christians” if they continue to break God’s command to protect the innocent and vulnerable from murder.

  • Alan C

    These guys are THIEVES, how DARE they use the example of the Good Samaritan! The Good Samaritan used HIS OWN MONEY to help the victim of the robbers, just like today there are lots of true Christian Good Samaritans who are helping the victims of LEFTIST THEFT!

    They advocate ROBBING the “rich” –so they say– but that’s only cover for stealing the resources from my family’s employers that could have gone to raises, and giving it to their buddies and friends and building a federal government empire that enforces the same kind of hegemony upon the POOR that these MONEY CHANGERS have STOLEN from us and others.

    Tell the truth about the MONEY CHANGERS in the Federal Reserve that ROB the poor with a stealth tax-theft they call “inflation”. They cover it up with Orwellian mumbo-jumbo to fool the clueless, and point to theories from the Fabian socialist pedophile Keynes to say inflation is good, but it’s only good for the big fat rich anti-Christian and anti-poor plutocrats who HATE Christianity.

    God is not mocked and these devils and kings (see Psalm 2) who frame injustice by a law will reap what they have sown. Their anticipated “Supreme Lord”, the anti-Messiah, like written in Daniel, “will come to his end, and none shall help them”.

    Now they want to sacrifice their infants to Molech and call him by the name above all names? There’s plenty God has to say about that, their prayers are an abomination.

    • Elise77

      I’d “like” it a hundred times if I could. Bull’s eye.

    • Timmehh

      Wait, wait, wait. People who are okay with inflation hate Christianity? That is complete nonsense. And you do realize that there are a lot of Christians who are “big fat rich.” And it is very naive to say that it is only “leftist theft” that has kept people poor. The right and the left have both done their share throughout history of making decisions that aren’t in the best interest of the poor.

  • Alan C

    So also why did the Christian Left support the forced and highest tax on the poor of American history with Obama’s Not-Care? Why do they support holding back poor blacks and poor whites from starting businesses? Why do they support the laws written by the very *biggest* corporations to “regulate” the big bad corporations and keep small Mom and Pop corner stores down? Why do they *hide* the fact that there is according to the Bible only one race, the “human race”?

  • Anonymous

    Christian Left = oxymoron

  • So, you think that God forgot to include “the unborn” – or that he just ran out of time to include the phrase?

    • Calvin Freiburger

      No more than He “forgot” to specify any other subdivision of human beings — young, old, able-bodied, infirm, geniuses, mentally ill, men, women, white, black, brown, gay, straight, whatever — as being covered by “thou shalt not murder.”

  • Daisy

    This is a wonderful article! Go Rebecca! So many churches ignore abortion and there are people HURTING in their church that have suffered from one. And several dear friends of mine have left the homosexual lifestyle and are now happily married with children because the church loved them through their struggle and loved them enough to speak truth to them. Their testimony is amazing.

  • nadineharris

    I’m utterly amazed at this article. What you are describing is not “Christianity” — it’s some sort of tribal identity that you’ve grown up with all your life. I won’t get on a soapbox. All I’ll say is that you don’t “own” Christianity and you don’t get to define it. If that’s what you believe, I hope you come to love your neighbor one day, but it’s not what I believe and not what many thousands of others believe.

  • marie27

    This is where the false idea that everyone can interperet the Bible however they want with no authoriy can lead to.